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WD asks for a Referendum: IS there a "We" here?
March 31, 2006
7:21 am
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Worried_Dad
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Revelation,

you asked : "WD...to me it sounds like you are either (a) trying to form a clique on this board...which would be a terrible terrible shame...or (b) trying to get someone here to call you some level of leader....correct me if I'm wrong! "

You are mistaken with both of those ideas.

March 31, 2006
7:30 am
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revelation
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WEll...maybe I am...this thread seems to have evolved yet again into the issue about "abuse"...what I was offended about was the idea that there was some sort of higher power here on the board...a group of people who were better qualified to help based on the length of time they were posting here...and I don't agree with that idea at all.

But...I don't want to bring this thread out of the flow its going to...which seems to be about abuse...I'm not going to comment on that. I've rarely felt attacked here, but have squirmed at seeing other people being attacked and also people taking others up the wrong way...it can so easily get out of hand.

For what its worth though...I think for the most part most of us are careful not to offend or attack and yet try to give the best advice of feedback possible. The "go screw yourself" comment was uncalled for completely...and I would have felt terribly attacked had it been directed at me...

March 31, 2006
7:32 am
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sewunique
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I feel ignored. That's okay. I can handle it. Sheesh

Sew

March 31, 2006
7:37 am
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revelation
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hey sew...you ok?

March 31, 2006
7:39 am
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sewunique
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Sure...just posting my "needs".

🙂 I need to be heard after a couple of posts to WD and Kathygy. Kathy posted back, tho.

WD, comment?

thanks Rev

March 31, 2006
10:20 am
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caraway
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I can't believe that worried_dad's post from Mar 26th. started all of this! Talk about filters (someone saying one thing and others hearing something completely different)I thought DAD was expressing his opinion and fail to see how that post could offend so many.

Let it go... allow folks to express how they feel without fear or retribution. I applaud DAD for a well written thought. I am not a "senior poster" but am not offended because DAD tried to honor the opinions of some who are. I apprecite the feedback I get from folks who have walked the path before me.

DAD, I think that I got what you were saying and I am not offended in the least. Actually, I found the perspective that you took to be very deep and a challenge to uphold other posters on this site.

I would be PROUD to be associated with someone of your caliber any day; To tell anyone the "we" are friends.

Cary

March 31, 2006
10:59 am
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Sew,

I appreciate your cooments on the "we" question.

I am a dlittle discouraged that this particular thread is now working issues about abuse--which is an important issue to be sure, but deserves its own thread. And there are already some threads addressing this particular episode.

March 31, 2006
11:12 am
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kathygy
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WD,

for one thing when desparate said to me 'KATHGY GO SCREW YOURSELF' he used all caps. This is in itself against the guidelines and is considered shouting or yelling. Yelling at someone is abusive.

This is a very hostile thing to say, demeaning and attacking. If you can't see this as abusive then so be it.

For me is beyond a doubt abusive. It doesn't matterwhat I said. Abuse is never, ever acceptable and the abuser is always 100% responsible for the abuse.

You seem to want to make me responsible in someway but I am not responsible at all. Why do you want to make me responsible in ANY way? I have no idea.

I know I am repeating myself here.
I can understand that people may be tired of this topic but I do think it is very important because many people come here who are in abusive relationships and sometimes they do not even recognize the abuse or they feel it is their fault because they edged the person on.

I tell these people over and over again that abuse is never, ever acceptable and they are in no way responsible for the abuse no matterwhat. I believe whole heartedly that this is true.

That's it. I let this go now. There's nothing more for me to say about this topic.

It just seems that something is driving you to question whether desparate's comment to me was abuse and something inside of you wants to make me partly responsible. Why?????

March 31, 2006
11:19 am
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codyrn
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Kathyguy,

Good morning.
I'm glad you are gonna let this go as you stated above :)...others may choose to not ...but I am glad for your decision...because ( call it selfish on my part) but I would rather have your insight on my and others issues ....
From what you have posted on advice in the past as been valuable and helpful . I look forward to mre.

Enjoy your day...it's beautiful out where I live.

codyrn

March 31, 2006
11:28 am
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Soulsister
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Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.

Just walk beside me and be my friend.

-Unknown

March 31, 2006
2:30 pm
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sewunique
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WD

I was addressing my comments from the conversation here after you posted this comment:

"So we have the task of determining was Kathy being abusive, what was the level of harm done or offense given, what was her intent, and what was the history behind her behavior.

What does "go screw yourself," mean anyway? What makes that abusive? "

I addressed my point, Twinks followed as others. You have failed to address respopnses directly answered to your point here.

Then you change your mind to say:
I appreciate your cooments on the "we" question.

I am a dlittle discouraged that this particular thread is now working issues about abuse--which is an important issue to be sure, but deserves its own thread. And there are already some threads addressing this particular episode. "

To be sure, WD, you are confusing to the reader with changing the conversation.

My question was where did you find anything that abuse is categorized into "abuse light" or other levels. Abuse is abuse and I stand by that.

You have skirted from my points I have addressed. In this I feel ignored.

Sew

"

March 31, 2006
3:32 pm
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kathygy
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WD,

Speak for yourself only. How can you justify saying 'we have the task'?
Who are the 'we' that agreed to this?

"So we have the task of determining was Kathy being abusive, what was the level of harm done or offense given, what was her intent, and what was the history behind her behavior. "

Why??? Why are you interested in this?

I'll say it again, all your questions above are irrevalent to the fact that desparate's comment was abusive to me. Why are you going down this alley?

What are you trying to prove???? What's driving this in you???

March 31, 2006
3:34 pm
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kathygy
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This is called 'turning the tables' and is crazy making. 'Turning the tables' is abusive.

March 31, 2006
4:10 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Kathy,

"We" is anyone who is considering the issue of abuse in the interaction between you and desperate. It is like when you are presented with a math problem. "We have the task of solving for x." It is a rhetorical device.

I am not "trying to prove" anything. I am pointing out that there is a question about which one of you was abusive, if either of you was. From my perspective, you went further over that line than desperate. I don't find that to be particularly reprehensible--just something to learn from.

I am suggesting that you not put so much energy into your hurt and outrage that someone used rude language to let you know that they wanted you to back off--that they wanted you to get out of their face, and instead work on understanding how your own behavior affects people.

Look, I really dont want to use this particular thread for this topic--there is another thread for that.

This thread needs to be wrapped up and harvested. I will consider it closed shortly.

In the meantime, my posts to this thread will mainly be "thank you's" to people who have responded to the "we" question. And I will have to track down the posts from people like sew who are wating for responses to me. But I will carry on those conversations elsewhere, if anyone wants to.

March 31, 2006
7:28 pm
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kathygy
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WD,

"We have the task of solving for x." It is a rhetorical device. "

It see this as a mechanism on your part to try to make a case that there is a collective group thinking what you are. As though there are a group of people putting me on trial. I find this extremely offensive and an attempt to intimaidate me.

I am not on trial here. I do not deserve the abuse I am getting from you. The more you pursue this the more abusive of me you become and further away from the facts.

I find your comments to be very crazy making and abusive.

I am utterly baffled by your persuit of this.

What desparate said to me was abusive. Point blank.

You can think what you want but nothing you say will convince me otherwise. I know what abuse is.

I talked at length with my therapist about the thread with desparate in an honest way including what I said.

She was mortified by what desparate said to me "KATHYGY GO SCREW YOURSELF".

This is to her beyond the shadow of a doubt abusive.

On my part, she said I had too high expectations of desparate to be on my level of self-awareness and knowledge about communication.

She also said his comment 'a little tip' was demeaning.

March 31, 2006
8:33 pm
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gingerleigh
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Kathy, you mentioned on this thread that you want to let the topic go, but you are continuing to engage in the discussion.

WD, Kathy said that she wants to let the topic go, but you're continuing to press it.

I respect the hell out of you both. I feel like both of you are trying to have the last word on something. Would both of you take a step back and check yourselves to see if there's something inside yourselves that's egging you on to keep up the discourse? Is there something that you want the other person to believe about yourself or themselves? If so, who cares if they believe it or not? In the long run, you are the only one who needs to be convinced.

March 31, 2006
9:59 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I feel dully stated on the matter of Kathy and Desperate. I was fully stated some time ago. I have made this thread a place where a different topic can be discussed. Kathy chose to divert conversation to material from another thread.

If I do not respond to Kathy then I run the risk of being accused once again of "ignoring" someone or "refusing to respond" to someone. But if I respond to Kathy then the accusation is that "you're continuing to press it."

My last post was a responseKathy asked me a very direct question. I gave her a very clear and direct answer and she chose to disbelieve me. Instead she contradicted my explanation of why I used the language I did:

"It see this as a mechanism on your part to try to make a case that there is a collective group thinking what you are. As though there are a group of people putting me on trial."

And she went on to invent a bizarre motive for me:

"I find this extremely offensive and an attempt to intimaidate me."

Which means that our exchange is over. There is no possible use for me to try to answer questions about my methods, reasons and motives when the answers I give are not believed and taken at face value.

Kathy, I don't know you. I don't want anything from you. I have no motive to "intimidate" you. I don't particularly care if you accept my interpretation of the exchange with desperate.

It is obvious that I am not a person who you want to hear from about this matter, and I think that there are other people here who know you better and who might be willing to talk about it with you if you wanted to.

I do observe that this whole current round of anger at WD started because I made the mistake of sticking up for Kathy and for the culture of this site on another thread. I won't make that particular mistake again.

In my opinion this is the second thread that has been hijacked by Kathy in the last few days. I have no idea why she does it. I just wish she would stop.

I think I have given enough on this particular topic. And I tire of having my sincere and well-intended efforts be the occasion for anger and accusations directed at me. Therefore, I am really, really through with this topic.

April 1, 2006
12:21 am
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upsadaisy
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April 1, 2006
12:44 am
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Anonymous
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WD,

You don't have to reply to people's posts. Nobody has to -- isn't that a guideline of this site? If not, it should be.

People can accuse all they want, but it doesn't make them right.

April 1, 2006
1:09 am
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Worried_Dad
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Thanks seeker,

Yeah, well, I guess that is my issue, isnt it. I am famous for that one.

April 1, 2006
1:43 am
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bonita1
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wow, I thought this thread was dead?

Die, die, you [email protected]#*d thread!! lol

April 1, 2006
10:03 am
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taj64
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Continuous attacking is abuse. Please abusers stop attacking. Im losing respect very fast.

April 1, 2006
10:22 am
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Taj, if they're not attacking you, why are you worried? This is co-dependency. Stop yourself from being frazzled by others so easily. Dont care, let people do what they want.

April 1, 2006
11:13 am
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Worried_Dad
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Thanks for checking in Guest-Guest.

Bonita,

Actually, this thread hasn't approached the "dead" level yet.

In fact the "aliveness" of this thread has annoyed some people.

This thread has mainly acheived the stated purpose of the thread--to gather information about the culture here. I think that everyone who cares enough to post has already checked in--if not do so now, about the nine statement/questions proposed.

I am unhappy with the diversion of the thread on to other subjects, but that is just too bad for me. I can still go through the posts related to the original questions and derive the learnings that I hoped to derive. That material will be the subject of another thread which I hope will be treated with a little more respect.

Taj, thanks for checking in.

As far as I can tell, I have not attacked anyone on this thread. If someone believes otherwise, please take it up with me on the "set me straight" thread.

Bonita and everyone:

This thread is a "tired" thread in that the original poster (me) is getting tired--mainly from the distractions, diversions and attacks that have happened here. I'm gonna wrap this onme up shortly, and will get back to you with what I have learned. Meantime, I would appreciate it if this thread which I started could be allowed to age and decompose in dignity.

I ask that if anyone has ANYTHING else to add to this thread that it be a thoughtful response to the subject of the thread.

April 1, 2006
11:16 am
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Kathy,

I would like to respectfully suggest that you print out this thread in it's ENTIRETY, as well as the original thread from Desperate which led to this one and bring all of the material in to your therapist for analysis.

I think it's important for her to have ALL of the information in order to make determinations on someone elses motives. You stated that she was "mortified" at desperates statements and that she viewed his "little tip" statement as demeaning, HOWEVER, perhaps if she was able to see everything (in black and white) that led up to his blowout and everything that transpired after it, she may be able to give further feedback.

None of us are professionals here and I'd be curious to get a professional opinion on this very heated exchange. It may help you also.

Just a suggestion.

TC

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