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WD asks for a Referendum: IS there a "We" here?
March 26, 2006
1:38 pm
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Anonymous
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I have to read the posts with more time but for now...

March 26, 2006
1:38 pm
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I have to read the posts with more time but for now...

March 26, 2006
1:43 pm
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mj
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WD,

When a mobbing occurs here and you are the one mobbed....You don't forget because it is very hurtful for everyone to gang up and spew toxic negative words in support of each other. They band together and stay close as if they were back in HS as the most popular clique. When you speak as an authority here, your demeanor is similiar to being leader of the mob. I have never been a member of this group therefore you don't recall the mobbing by ignoring.

I belong on AAC only because I speak what is in my heart. Not because I am a leader or a teacher. I am neither. I am just another voice.

March 26, 2006
1:43 pm
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Anonymous
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continuing... (my enter needs configuring) well, ............. WHEN IN ROME, DO AS THE ROMANS. So there is a we here and always will if the backbone is there, if the bridge doesnt break. Now after you get to Rome, you may not like to abide to certain rules but you must. However either you do or you go to France or whatever.

March 26, 2006
1:59 pm
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mj
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mobbed, mobยทbing, mobs
To crowd around and jostle or annoy, especially in anger or excessive enthusiasm: Eager fans mobbed the popular singer.
To crowd into: Visitors mobbed the fairgrounds.
To attack in large numbers; overwhelm: The quarterback was mobbed by the defensive line.

March 26, 2006
2:16 pm
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readyforachange
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We the people....that's what I thought of when I read the thread title. I believe that this site is a society, and - as in all societies - there are standards. Thus, our guidelines. There is also a leader. Thus, our SC.

Society also consists of many different types of people. Those who tend to lead, and those who tend to follow. Those who need support, and those who offer support. Those who are at very difficult places in their lives, as I was when I arrived here, and those who are strong and secure, for the time being. Old, and young. Experienced, and naive.

Societies also lend themselves to subcultures, if you will. I believe that happens here. You have threads that die with no response. You have threads that get very little attention, no matter how needy that poster might be. Cliques form, and posters leave because they feel unwelcome or isolated. No matter how hard some loyal posters here try, some members of this society choose to leave.

So, I believe, that any time you have a group of people who interact regularly with one another, you have a "we". Naturally, then, we have leaders, followers, strong, weak, bold, submissive, and everything in between.

That does not mean that we all follow the same rules, we interpret them in our own unique ways. We have moods, we react, we sometimes say things that we haven't thought through as well as we should. It happens. But overall, we have standards that we attempt to hold one another to during our discussions. I suppose that makes us a "we"....it is not an exclusive "we" in my opinion. It includes ALL of us at AAC...at all times.

March 26, 2006
2:17 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Well, this has been a very learningful thread. Thanks to everyone who has participated so far.

I must say that I am surprised at the amount of anger that has been generated here. Who would's thunk it?

And who would have thought that "leader" is a four letter word.

As I said, the subject of leadership is secondary to the main purpose of this thread, which is mainly about culture. But since so many have asked, I will explain what I was really talking about when I used the word "leader."

In post number 7 on this thread, I wrote: "I choose to invest leaderfulness in the person who has contributed mmost consitently and powerfully and generously to the Sustenance of this group. That is my idiosyncratic value and I am testing to see if my value is culturally supported here."

Lolli's answer to that was "NO!"

I think I can say without fear of reasoned contradiction that the Site Coordinator has contributed most consistently and powerfully and generously to the sustenance of this group.

The Site Coordinator's work in creating, building and maintaining this site to be leaderful behavior--it demonstrates valuing of the site's purpose. It goes far beyond merely "putting your money where your mouth is." It is also about putting your time, sweat, blood, sweat, tears and heart where your mouth is.

I have learned to and I choose to respect and honor that. It's my idiosyncracy--nobody "has to" agree with me--I was just checking to see if anyone did.

Furthermore, I experience the Site Leader's contributions in creating, building and maintaining this site to be leaderful behavior. It's my idiosyncracy--nobody "has to" agree with me--I was just checking to see if anyone did.

The Site Coordinator has also created a look, feel and tone here--and provided lots of helpful links and food for thought and food for the soul here. I experience that as leadership.

The Site Coodinator also has a remarkable way of holding people accountable not only to explicit guidlines, but also to the spirit and purpose of this site. The SC has a clarity and calmness and skillful neutrality of tone that is, in my opinion, unmatched here. I experience that as leadership.

The Site Coordinator can occasionally be quite firm in identifying and asking for a change in behavior that is inconsistent with the explicit guidelines and the spirit of the site.

In my opinion, the Site Coordinator models a style of communication reflects what is best about the culture here.

I experience that as leadership. And I experience it as teaching.

Yes, the best outcomes can be expected when a person who is behaving leaderfully is joined by like minded people. That is one way to reinforce leaderful behavior.

But strictly speaking, leadership does not require followers. It is an act of Self and related to conscience. It is service that can and often is given whether or not anyone recognizes it or appreciates it.

Like intimacy, leadership is a one-way street.

March 26, 2006
3:37 pm
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lollipop3
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With all due respect WD.....If you would like to quote me, please include the entire quote and not just the selective words that suit you.

You may feel that my post is against the guidelines...and if it is in fact, against the guidelines then I apologize. I may not always succeed but I do respect the guidelines of this site and I do try to follow them.

Finally, I would like to comment on your statement: "And what is more, your post doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of how we do things here at AAC."

If *you* have issue with what I say, then by all means, let me know and I will try to take that into consideration. However, as your experiment here has shown....I think most people here would prefer to not be included in "we".

I admit that this thread and most of the wording used in it made me angry, but I'm sure I could have come up with a more constructive way to air my grievences. I will try to do better next time.

Lolli

March 26, 2006
3:47 pm
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bonita1
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good golly miss lolly!!

I would like to invite you "upstairs" in libs so you can set WD straight. You have a lot to express and it would probably be a better forum for you to express it.

luv ya, girlfriend,

~~bonita

March 26, 2006
3:50 pm
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bonita1
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oops! just saw you upstairs, miss lolli...forget what i just posted....

~~bonita ๐Ÿ˜‰

March 26, 2006
3:53 pm
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lollipop3
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Thanks (((bonita)))

March 28, 2006
6:00 pm
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DoTheyNetwork
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"WD" I love this post ! ๐Ÿ™‚ To me. The we are we. ๐Ÿ™‚ Everyone !!!!! Battling our way through lifes struggles from the muddy trench days to victory days. The grind with its ups and downs. Some days "we" feel crushed and yet 10 minutes later we are standing in that bright light. The SC has done a dandy job creating this safe place for so many to sort things out.

As for me_I am just a Box Car Freddy ridding the rails of the internet and stopping in from time to time. Stopping to learn from and appreciate the hard struggles of so many.

I howl when it hurts, growl when I am mad and try to keep my mouth shut when I am stumped for an answer to someone elses delemma. Usually someone will answer with much insite.

Good Day All !

March 28, 2006
7:14 pm
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WD,
I happened to read what you wrote:

>> strictly speaking, leadership does not require followers. It is an act of Self and related to conscience. < < Thats an interesting perspective. I like it. Did you learn this from your own experience? Its a good "grounding" statement, meaning it reminds us to stay true to ourselves.

March 29, 2006
10:34 am
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addicts wife
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I Sooo have to come back and re read WD's first post, and finish reading all the replies, but I will just acknowledge that I have read Part of this, and feel like part of the "WE."
Until I am more conscous, and have time to "really" read....
AW

March 29, 2006
10:54 am
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thumkin
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I do not understand what makes a leader or how there can even be a leader here?

March 29, 2006
11:11 am
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revelation
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The SC is the leader...full stop.

None of the rest of us, no matter how long we've been here...are leaders, nor are we any better or worse as posters on this site or as people no matter how long we've been here.

I've been here since December 2004, lots of people been around before me, and lots after me...I don't hold any less respect for those joined after me and I value there help and advice just as much as I value those who've been around longer. If anyone looks for help...it never crosses my mind how long they've been here....if I can help I will try.

WD...to me it sounds like you are either (a) trying to form a clique on this board...which would be a terrible terrible shame...or (b) trying to get someone here to call you some level of leader....correct me if I'm wrong! Its just what I got from your first post.

Eh...one last thing...should this thread be on LIB?

March 29, 2006
11:48 am
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eve
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I think there have been over time all kind of healthy and unhealthy we's on this site.

The healthier ones are, when 'we' try to help each other to stick to the site's guidelines, give good feedback and help others. I'd rather call this 'the spirit of AAC' than 'we'.

The unhealthies 'we's are not really easy to distinguish sharply from the healthy ones. I think it is very important to keep feedback here personal and individual, because if we don't it will be very easy sometimes for a person to feel like others are ganging up on them.

Is 'XY is exactly right, I couldn't have said it better' friendly talk, or is this already a dangerous 'we' on the horizon? Could be somebody is hiding their own opinion behind a screen, bonding with somebody who sounds perhaps stronger and wiser, so it is safer to 'agree' than to really put the own effort in your own words. What would be different if it wasn't 'XY is exactly right, hear hear' but 'I second what XY said, I think this is sound advice, because...'?

Most people come here because they have a problem, and having a problem makes us feel vulnerable. Even feedback that is given according to the guidelines can be very very hard to take sometimes, because it is not always easy to remember, that feedback is just that: a statement about the person giving the feedback. The recieving person can take it or leave it. Period. This is not always easy, because often we are (that shoud read I am) quite convinced that we can see the situation much clearer than the other person, and the soution seems simple.

I'm sure that there are lots of wes on this site, but I'm not sure that I like most of them.

March 29, 2006
12:55 pm
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kathygy
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WD,

I do not see this web site as a 'we' other than the fact that most people come here with similar goals such as learning more about codependency and getting support and many times ask for advice and feedback but that's it.

I feel a connection to this web site but remain a separate, individual.

I think it would be wrong for there to be a leader here. Rather i think it is best that we be all equals here helping each other.

I am alarmed that some people take your assumptions and judgements about me as being valid just because you speak so well, so convincingly and so authoratively. But that does not make your interpretations about me correct. They are full of your own projections that have nothing to do with me.

Yes, I have my faults. I maybe insensitive at times here but not ALL of the time and not on purpose. I have a very nurturing side that has also come out here a lot in what I say to people.

Many people seem to prefer to believe YOUR interpretations of me rather than giving respect to what is true for me. I know myself a whole lot better than you do.

I have lived with myself and been confronted and analyzed extensively in therapy and group therapy for many, many years. You were not there, I was.

I think the SC is very important to this site. Although, she prefers that people work things out here without her I beleive there are times when her input is cruical and essential to bringing clear thinking back to this site when it veers off the guidelines.

Kathy

March 29, 2006
1:12 pm
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kathygy
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I do not feel safe here at all after all the negative responses I got on the other thread. I feel like I was whistling in the wind and the thread was very one sided and one minded.

I am looking forward to feedback from the site coordinator.

Kathy

March 29, 2006
1:14 pm
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March 29, 2006
1:57 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hi Kathy,

You said: "I do not feel safe here at all after all the negative responses I got on the other thread. I feel like I was whistling in the wind and the thread was very one sided and one minded. I am looking forward to feedback from the site coordinator."

I think it sucks that other threads turned into a big fat Kathy Bashing session. ๐Ÿ™

I would like to ask you, are you looking for validation from the SC that you were attacked unfairly?

I've seen flaming threads (been a part of them, even been a target of them *laugh*) over the years, and a part of me was hoping that the SC would step in and defend me. I think I've finally realized that no one else on these threads needs to be "convinced" except for me, and as such, I don't have to be considered "ok" by anyone else here except for myself.

I'm not trying to speak for you or say that I understand what you are thinking. Heck, I can't even say I understand what I myself am thinking moment to moment, so honestly I'm not trying to project my feelings onto you. I'm actually making a conscious effort NOT to!

Kathy, you are always safe to post here. It's anonymous, no one knows who you are, and we don't know who anyone else is either. Who cares what anyone else says about us or to us here? We can just take what works and leave the rest, yeah?

March 29, 2006
2:35 pm
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taj64
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"I do not see this web site as a 'we' other than the fact that most people come here with similar goals such as learning more about codependency and getting support and many times ask for advice and feedback but that's it. "

I agree with this. We are a bunch of people to talk about our problems and finding ways to solve them. Grant it, doesn't always go the way "we" want, "We" make mistakes, yet we all grow and learn and find forgiveness and we let go when we need to. There should be no "we" as in a specific group, leader(s) or clique. All of us come from various walks of life, education, background, way of life, etc, but we all seek support in our daily lives. We want to overcome our codependency problem in our lives. Even if we stumble, we try to get back up again and try again. Shouldn't we just lend our support to each other and not appoint leaders or allow cliques? That is my comment on "we". I also like what Eve had to say. Im not too comfortable with this thread just as I didn't feel comfortable on other abuse thread but hopefully I manage to give my two cents, lay low, and I hope this will get worked out as many threads do and will.

PS Kathy, your words were not wasted. It will all work out as just fine. The important thing is to learn and grow and become a better person with each day as it come. Im not perfect. I did get something out of the thread. It made me want to be a better person. I try even harder now. And I am ok. So are you.

March 29, 2006
3:22 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Kathy,

You wrote: "I am alarmed that some people take your assumptions and judgements about me as being valid just because you speak so well, so convincingly and so authoratively. But that does not make your interpretations about me correct. They are full of your own projections that have nothing to do with me."

Could you please be more specific about which judgements and assumptions you are speaking of and what projection you have in mind? Quotes would help.

I did describe you as having analytical and rhetorical skills. Is that what you meant?

Also, thanks for checking in on the "we" issue.

March 29, 2006
4:40 pm
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WD,

thanks for asking. I have to leavre work now but will reply later.

Ginger,

Good to hear from you. Yes, there is a part of me that wants the support of the SC but also I am concerned that many people that responded to my thread seem to think that desparate saying to me "KATHYGY GO SCREW YOUSELF!" was not abuse and he's innocent because I pushed him to the edge.

Whereas, as I have said to person after person that abuse is never, ever acceptable no matterwhat. Many times a person has said 'but I edged him on' making an excuse for getting abuse.

I believe that the abuser is always 100% responsible for being abusive.

Kathy

March 29, 2006
5:03 pm
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I would like to be counted as a "we."

Mama, do you really have a mouse in your pocket.

WD, my head is spinning, but I still love you.

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