Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
violence between brother and sister
October 16, 2006
3:38 pm
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My daughter (age 14) says that if her brother (age 19) ever lays a hand on her again (smacking, punching, etc.), she is going to call the police. I want to back her up 100%, but does anyone know what would happen if the police were called for such a reason?

sign me,
frightened mom.

October 16, 2006
3:53 pm
Avatar
Matteo
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have no idea what the laws in your country are, but good for your daughter: she sees that it is not right what your son is doing and has a will to stand up and defend herself.

I am wondering though where are you in that situation? Are you just passively observing your son being violent towards your daughter? Is that OK with you? What are you really concerned about - what will happen to your son if the police will arrive or that your daughter will not be abused?

October 16, 2006
3:55 pm
Avatar
ScaredinMichigan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It is still considered domestic assault...I just went through this with my husband and his brother. Luckily for us, his brother didn't call the police, but it is still assault, and the fact that she is a minor will only make things worse. Potentially, obviosly depending on the severity, could cause a lot of problems for him. It IS a form of abuse, and if she calls and they come he will be arrested. At least that is how it works here. Someone will be arrested in ALL domestic violence issues. That should not stop her from calling, and I am glad to hear that you want to back her up. He has no right to touch her. PERIOD. Brother or not.

Scared

October 16, 2006
4:14 pm
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Matteo,

I'm hoping you didn't mean to sound accusatory towards me. I don't tolerate abuse -- anymore. But I did for a long time, and I'm sure my son learned it from watching his dad and me. Although, my husband NEVER got physical with me, because he KNEW he'd be out on his a** and I would have called the police.

My son has issues -- a history of childhood sexual abuse, depression, cutting. These are not excuses for violence towards women -- any women. Not me, not his girlfriend and not his sister. I do my share of "punishing" him. I take away privileges (car keys, phone, computer). I talk to him about his anger. And I encourage my daughter to speak up, absolutely.

He has never left a bruise on her or hit her in the face, and having never had brothers, I don't know what's normal and what's not, but I don't think it's okay for ANYONE to raise their hand to another human being. That's what I've tried to teach all my children, so it is especially disheartening to me that my son apparently cannot control his behavior at times.

I want him to know what the consequences of his behavior could be. And I want my daughter to know what the consequences would be of her calling the police, so that she's not shocked in any way. We've had Child Services in our lives for other reasons (husband's drug addiction, children's absenteeism) and we just got them OUT of our lives. I'm reasonably certain that if my daughter called the police, Child Services would once again be involved in our lives, and I don't know how my daughter would feel about that.

Any other suggestions of how to deal with a situation like this is greatly appreciated.

October 16, 2006
4:26 pm
Avatar
nappy
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

First of all, is it just the brother and sister thing, were you daughter is at the age were she doesn't like her brother even in her face or is it that she doesn't like her brother at all. Sometimes brothers and sisters can really hate each other and there is nothing that the parents can do about that. Growing up in a family where there is alot of brothers and sisters, you can tend to get irritated with them, (I hope I spell that right). I know that I did, and we had our share of fights but not to were we want to call the police on each other.
When you said sexual abuse. Who sexual abuses your son? And did he get help for that?
And yes, the police will take him to jail, and then child protect services will come back into your household.
You need to sit each one down and tell them what will happen because your son will go to jail, and your daughter maybe taken out of the household.

October 16, 2006
4:31 pm
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I will sit them down and talk to them again about this. They do antagonize each other. My son was abused by a neighbor from the time he was 8 until he was 12. He saw a counselor for a while -- in fact, he saw 3 different counselors since we found out about it in 2004. But he refuses to open up about what happened. He would not talk about it to anyone, other than to say it happened and he'd like to forget it and have everybody stop treating him like there's something wrong with him. His words, not mine.

The neighbor was a woman, so I can certainly see where he has issues with women. But it's still no excuse for behaving badly. And he does not want to seek more help at this time.

October 16, 2006
4:47 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jas

I grew up with a violent brother. No one protected me. I applaud your daughter for taking care of herself. I moved out the day I graduated high school. He went on to beat up on his girlfriends. I went on to take abuse from men, but not anymore. I got ahold of myself, once I realized I was repeating the pattern from childhood, and as an adult I had the choice to protect myself.

I have detached from my brother. I confronted my mother. She knew but was scared. I cannot believe I wasn't worth enough to be protected. I forgive her, but I will never understand.

I read the research on sibling abuse, and what is the difference between normal sibling stuff vs. abuse. It is not normal for a child to hide in fear of a sibling. There really is no excuse for physical violence or emotional abuse. Your daughter has a right to her boundaries, and if she doesn't learn now, she won't know what is appropriate behavior from men in the future.

Fortunately, I have learned this a bit late in life after the gift of a very abusive man who was a lot like my brother. I won't let it happen again.

Good luck.

P&L

October 16, 2006
5:05 pm
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

P&L, Now that was very helpful. I was able to look up "sibling abuse" and read more about it and how to handle it. thanks so much.

October 16, 2006
5:11 pm
Avatar
Matteo
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

jastypes ~ I was wondering where are you in that situation because abuse doesn't start all of a sudden, it was a process and you were there, I assume, when it started. I am sorry that your son had a tough childhood, but right now he is an adult and taking his privledges is not a sufficient measure to stop the abuse. My point is that in my view you are protecting him more than your daughter; if that was me - I would be the one calling police (instead of taking his car keys!), instead of waiting for my minor daughter to protect herself.

October 16, 2006
5:11 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jas, one more thing...I want you to know that I love my parents very much. I grew up in a very affluent area, where I had every opportunity to succeed, and I went on to become a professor. Every parent makes mistakes. My parents made this one huge mistake, among doing many things right that affected me for years to come. It is very comforting to know you are taking responsibility for this! She is lucky to have you.

October 16, 2006
5:18 pm
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Matteo, he's not beating the crap out of her. He punched her in the arm -- twice in the past 6 months. It's not constant. It's not life threatening or even health threatening. But I don't like it, and I don't want it happening. My daughter is emotional and can be overreacting. I've never SEEN the violence between them, but I don't doubt her, because I've seen his violence against my walls, and against his dad.

When a son punches his sister in the arm because she's bugging him to get off the computer so she can call her girlfriend, I'm thinking it IS time to take away a privilege rather than get the police involved.

Perhaps I overreacted myself, by posting the situation here. But maybe not. I guess that's it. I'm confused. I have "men" issues. My son has "women" issues. I just want to get it right.

October 16, 2006
5:28 pm
Avatar
nappy
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jastypes, I understand what you are saying. It is not like he is killing her to the point that there is blood are anything. Don't get angry. It is just that your thread 'VIOLENCE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER" just might make some think that he is realling beating her. That is why I say that many family that have more than one child will have that in the family. I know that my mother was sick of us because we would make my little sister cry just by looking at her. Especially when we all were in trouble and we had to sit, there it goes, She looking at me, make her stop looking at me, or we would stick out our tougue.
I have three boys and now they are grown and they did the same things when they were little. It funny now because the two youngest one are bigger then the oldest but he still have to make sure that they know that. My oldest might hit the other one on his arm and I still have to hear' Tell him to leave me alone".
If it is truly violence then that will have to stop but you know the difference betweeb kid play and real fighting.

October 16, 2006
5:30 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jas,

they both can be taught healthy boundaries and to communicate peacefully. There is ABSOLUTELY NO hitting, swearing, screaming, or there will be some outcome. How about teaching them healthy boundaries and peaceful communication as a start? All parties will feel better living peacefully and behaving responsibly... it doesn't feel good to yell or manipulate others. Sharing is good for all...time management also is good, healthy, fair, etc. Doing it freely out of love sure feels better than doing it out of manipulation tactics, control, and struggles. Seems to me, they are struggling with each other, which also means they are struggling with themselves. Letting go of struggles is a better choice for life, and less stressful, but it requires boundaries and open and honest communication. I sure wish my brother would have been taught how to live peacefully, but he never was, and because of that, it escalated. Aggressive behaviors tend to escalate...better to nip it in the bud with healthy coping strategies.

Hope this helps.

October 16, 2006
5:32 pm
Avatar
Matteo
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

jastypes ~ your daughter is growing up in an abusive and violent environment. I never said that he has to beat the crap out of her to be violent. Punching the walls is a form of violence - is a thread of violence (meaning: you might be next!) and it surely does its purpose - it scares your daughter. I don't think you overreacted writing about it and I don't think even if your daughter is overreacting, his behaviour is acceptable. I don't think he should be punching her at all, but if he does punch her because he wants the computer - that might be not a reason to call the police. If he punches the walls - or is violent against his father - in my opinion that is a reason for you to call the police. Again - please note what you said in your post about your son: "he's not beating the crap out of her" in comparision to what you said about your daughter: "overreacting".

October 16, 2006
5:39 pm
Avatar
ScaredinMichigan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am in the middle of a situation right now, that I strongly question. How is it different if my husband hits my kids, as opposed to each other. At 8, 9, 10...it is sibling rivalry, and the age where they need to be taught that it's not how we handle our anger. At 19, I have to agree with Matteo, IT IS ABUSE. Are we really trying to justify this? Taking away his car keys at 19 is only going to piss him off and make him be more mean to her. She may not want protective services involved again, but maybe they need to be. I was abused severely by my brother, and at 30, and he is now 39, I hate him still. Because of the abuse and the fact that my mother didn't stop it. She should not fear calling the police because he will go to jail, he should, if he can't find a new way to vent his anger. I am in a position that quite frankly, if PS shows up on my doorstep I have noboody to blame but me. I didn't want it happening to my kids either, but it has, and I have done nothing to really stop it. I am not blaming you Jas that it is happening, I swear I am not. BUT, your daughter should not fear the consequences of turning him in. You're teaching her to accept it, and she will hate him and resent you inthe long run. You got out of an abusive relationship it sounds like, and that is great. But, I don't care if he "just punched her" or not, it is abuse, and there is NO excuse. He is an adult, and should know better. Me being beaten as a child, and molested doesn't give me the right to beat on people. You asked for peoples opinion, I have learned one thing around here, you get peoples honest opinions and you will NOT like them all. But, it is your life, and your choices. We are all here with the best of intentions, and sometimes people being "mean" to us, is the only way we will listen. I am not saying that anyone has been mean to you, but sometimes peoples opinions hurt. They usually only hurt if we have reason to believe that there is any truth in what they said, no matter how bad we didn't want to hear it.

Scared

October 16, 2006
5:50 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My brother never "beat the crap" out of me, but I lived in fear of the day he would...so did my younger brother. My parents attributed it to normal sibling stuff. He went on to later beat the crap out of his girlfriend. Of course, this was her fault somehow for triggering it. I should have called the police on him. My parents actually called the police on him a couple of times, but it didn't help. He got away with a lot of stuff, cuz boys do. All over the psychological literature, we see that it is considered more normal for boys to hit and kick than for girls. Once girls do it, they are really labeled "aggressive." Girls cry, and boys hit/kick. Well, it is not okay to ever hit, whether it is a boy or a girl, and living in fear to the point that one threatens to call the police says she wants to be heard. I wanted to be heard as a kid. I so wanted to be heard, but I wasn't. How sad that the voice of a girl is not taken as seriously as the aggression of a boy. I guess that is why we resort to resolving differences by fighting wars with violence rather than using words to peacefully negotiate. That is about all I have to say on the matter. I hope your daugher has a better outcome than I did, but then, I found peace by the time I was 45.

October 17, 2006
8:57 am
Avatar
lovetocrochet
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

All I can offer is my own experience... like P&L I was abused by my brother. He beat, molested and verbally abused me, and he continued to be emotionally and verbally abusive to me as an adult until I cut off contact with him 4 1/2 years ago. He never took responsibility for anything he did to me.

For the sake of the post I'll only address the physical abuse. Otherwise I'll probably go on forever.

My mother would literally stand there and watch him when he'd continuously hit me, then he'd walk in the bathroom while I was in the tub crying and nursing an arm I couldn't move and tell me he and my mother felt I was just crying to get attention and that they didn't care so just knock it off. Mother would also tell me that I shouldn't provoke him.

She finally - *finally* - told him to stop it and his behavior was wrong after she watched him beat me up yet one more time after he'd backed me into a corner screaming during a fight, and I reflexively smacked him in the mouth to get him to stop. It's like cripes lady, what took you so long to realize the whole thing was so out of control?

It didn't stop other forms of violence that he committed against me. But again, only going to touch on the physical abuse here...

Given my own experiences, my thoughts are that your son is an adult. He is well old enough to know what he's doing is WRONG.

Taking away privileges is what you do to a younger child or a teenager. Not a full grown man, regardless of if he can act like a man or not.

I would definitely sit down and talk to both of them about the consequences of physical violence and if the authorities are called in. I would also make it clear that the decision to follow through on a choice should NOT be based on feelings. Fearing whether CPS gets into your lives again shouldn't dictate whether or not to do the right thing. But a discussion like this would for sure put him on notice.

Personally, and I don't care if this stirs a hornet's nest or not, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having a consequence of evicting him if he continues to be this way. He can go live elsewhere and support himself if he thinks punching his younger sister makes him such a hot shot... and if kicking him out of the house puts an end to the violence and is the best way to protect your daughter, then you have to do what you have to do.

October 17, 2006
9:41 am
Avatar
jastypes
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

New day. When I got home from work last night, I spoke with my daughter first. She told me my son didn't hit her, but he did swear at her because she wanted to use the phone while he was on the computer. He did punch her in the arm a couple of months ago, and she told him if he did it again, she was calling the police. That's what she relayed to me yesterday, and I took it to mean he hit her again, which he didn't. I did also speak to Greg to warn him of consequences should he lose his temper.

I think my daughter is awesome. I've had to think seriously about what Matteo was saying to me, and why it was making me feel so defensive. In this year that I've been in a recovery program, I've learned some important things about myself. Unfortunately, I grew up in a household of all women, and those women really hated men. I've become a man-hater myself.

It wasn't that I was protecting or preferring my son over my daughter, but in my own sick, co-dependent world, I don't EXPECT good behavior from men, but I do expect women to be strong and capable and independent.

I realize that I have issues with women who allow themselves to be abused, much more than I have issues with the men who abuse. In my present state of mind, I think my daughter should be strong, be firm, stand up for herself and protect herself. She knows how to do that. Also, in my present state of mind, I don't expect my son to be anything more than an angry, nasty, jerk.

Now, healthy me knows that my son can and should be responsible, kind, loving and caring. And my daughter may need assistance in dealing with family pressures. God knows we've had enough family counseling to at least see that. I need to stay in "healthy" mode. I've missed a lot of Celebrate Recovery meetings. Maybe I need to get back to them.

October 17, 2006
9:48 am
Avatar
ScaredinMichigan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jas,

I am glad that you took the time to think about some of this. I honestly don't believe that anyone is trying to beat on you. I believe that you are a good mom, and want to be what is best to both of them. Just please think about it. You don't want her to take it from someone else when she starts dating, but she is feeling as if she has to accept it from him. Be strong, don't let her hurt. If you think that going back to meetings is a good idea, then go for it. Stay healthy for you, AND your kids. They need that from you. And be careful not to blame yourself too much for your sons anger...he is an adult. You have to make him take responsibility for him, you can't control him, or his behavior. He is 19 years old. You can only control you. Be strong, be healthy, and be happy.

Scared

October 17, 2006
1:35 pm
Avatar
lollipop3
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Jastypes,

I'm glad to see you were able to communicate with your daughter and I hope that you all will be able to resolve this issue peacefully and without police involvement if at all possible. But in the event of future violence...I will share a personal story of mine.

I grew up with 2 sisters and 1 brother. There was violence between siblings in my house from time to time but usually between my sisters. I am considerably younger than them so I wasn't involved much. Anyway, when they would fight....parents would yell, tell them to knock it off and whoever "won" would be puninshed.

Having said that....when I was 12, my sister lived at home with my nephew who was then 3, as did my brother. One day my nephew was kicking his feet and my brother told him to stop. He, being 3, didn't stop and accidently (intentionally?)kicked my brother. My brother reacted violently and hit my nephew. I in turn, with all of my 12 year old strength...began pummeling my brother. He in turn...with his 20 year old strength...began pummeling me. My mother came into the room to see what all the noise was and saw my brother hitting me. She threw him out of the house right on the spot...no questions asked. He was allowed to come back a week later to get his belongings.

My brother didn't speak to my mother for a long time after that but in the end.... she felt she did the right thing. And he was none worse for the wear.

I am happy to report....my brother has never hit me or anyone in my family again.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
31
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 111092
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38644
Posts: 714466
Newest Members:
graydor, doctorelvis, lion heart, thomson, BenjaminGresham, answerhope
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information