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update on breaking up - bmom74
July 10, 2007
10:58 am
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taj64
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I always feel better if I take a drive or take a walk. SOmehow getting out clears your head or at least makes the time go faster. I know it is hurtful/painful. It is no way to avoid it, because it is what it is, goes with the territory but honestly, believe me, it does fade. Letting go is right on. Time is universal healer ...wait and see. You have 2 options, feel it now and let it fade, or stay in it and make your pain worse. Somehow in the long run, a big pain will heal faster if exposed than a wound that is covered up and takes longer and get infected. Try volunteering for something that will get you out there and help someone. It will make you feel good.

July 10, 2007
12:27 pm
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bmom74
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I guess I do need to go back to the "no contact" thing. I seemed to be doing much better then. it is just so hard because I just absolutely "crave him" if you will ... like a drug addiction. Once I go a few days without him, i.e., the drug, the withdrawal becomes less and I am better. Once he is back, the addiction starts all over again. So, I think I am understanding the whole process but it does not make it any easier. I cannot think about not having a link to him anymore because it hurts so bad. I just need to get on. How did I ever get to this sick place to start with???? I am exhausted today but need to keep moving on.

July 10, 2007
12:57 pm
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taj64
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yes definately stay on the no contact. I found myself addicted to my ex. It has been almost 2 years since I have actually seen him. Even after 2 years, as pathetic as this sounds, I think about him all the time. I felt a lot like you do right now after we broke up. He was a married man and made a commitment back to his wife. He loved both of us but he needed to stick to that commitment. It is sorry to even say it but I know it was really hard for him too. He was the one to chase me in the beginning and as time went on I was getting hurt over not being able to have a normal relationship like other people. It was a rollercoaster ride and only way out was to get off. I did but not without struggles. Having no contact was helpful. IT was better than hurting myself the way I did. I might still not be over him completely and I might not ever truly stop thinking about him, it is with me everyday, but I also know not to go back, not to do that to myself cause hurt for me. He cannot hurt me if he is out of my life. So your guy cannot hurt you now. You cannot add anymore to it by taking care of yourself as you heal. And the more you heal, the more you will figure out what you really want in a man, and you will want that real man. The hurt and the pain of it all is clouding what is really there. the stronger you get, the more this guy comes off his high place on that pedestal, even if he is a jerk etc, you still love the jerk, that you cannot help. The love needs to fade, as hard as that sounds. YOu have to fall out of love and not into it. Seeing him causing you to fall in love but not getting that love returned is painful. So why put yourself in places where you will fall back in love only to get hurt. It is something that you cannot change no matter what you do. There is not changing or waiting or hope for you. Keep at it I say. You really are doing fine and what is expected to be in someone's shoes like this. Losing love hurts no matter if is returned or not it is yours. Being tired is ok too. Your body is now resting because you mind is overworked. It is truly amazing love can make you feel sick. so you want to feel better and it will come. have faith you will get over this soon.

July 10, 2007
1:41 pm
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bmom74
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I still keep wondering how coul I want him back so much when he is such a jerk. He is all I am thinking about today. Man, I am miserable ... this cycle has simply got to break. I am in therapy but just not moving fast enough it seems.

July 10, 2007
3:14 pm
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StronginHim77
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You have to admit that he doesn't love you. And that is a painful thing for any of us to face. He never did and he doesn't now. And he never will. Please get his son out of your home. That is one more point of contact which needs to GO.

It is critical that you sever all ties with him. It is a question of facing the pain and beginning to heal, or prolonging the suffering and pain. That son is a point of contact and you need to initiate NO CONTACT. That includes VIA THIRD PARTIES and his son is a third party point of contact.

So, GET HIM OUT OF THERE.

- Ma Strong

July 10, 2007
4:40 pm
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lettingo
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bmom74,
When my ex and I divorced I talked to his sister once or twice but once I changed my phone numbers I didn't give her my new number because I needed to severe all ties. She still sends me a group email every once in awhile but I never respond hoping she will think I also changed my email. The point I am trying to make is MA is right, you need to severe ALL ties or BELIEVE me, you WILL prolong your misery. You can deal with the pain hard and strong but keep it as short as possible "or" you can drag it out.

July 10, 2007
4:51 pm
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taj64
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You're gonna be miserable. It is called heartbreak cuz darn if it doesn't actually feel it down there. I agree with Strong. SHe is wise. She's been with an abuser and maybe this guy did not hit you he sure abused you mentally by staying in a house, knowing full well that you were in love with him and he did not care or feel guilty about it until you started to become toxic to him and had some out of character experiences with him. He brings out the unhealthy part of you. I agree the son, as hard as it is, needs to be fathered somewhere else, like his father. I doubt you would have truly bonded the way you have with the son if he was not the son of the guy you have fallen for. I do think it would be hard for awhile, as in breakups with dating partners that have children are not particularly good in the long run to take on parent role after the breakup. If this guy ends up marrying someone else, as painful as that is to hear, it would not be fair to whoever is partner to this guy. You'd be in the middle and likely to be resentment on his part, and on the new partner. Just pointing this out. It is only delaying the inevitable. I hope your heart heals, it will, just give it time and now would be a good time to think about your future by helping yourself. Read some good books, etc. SOme are harsh to read, in my opinion but get something that is easy on the heart to read. There is nice little short book on heartbreak.If i find the title I will send. It helped me without overbearing on me.

July 10, 2007
5:13 pm
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bmom74
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Gosh, I don't know how I would survive without this website. Do any of you know of any kind of hotline you can call when it is the middle of the night and the pain wakes you up, it is so unbearable? and you just need to talk to someone? The nights are the hardest. I toss and turn all night.

July 10, 2007
5:18 pm
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fantas
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Bmom....You can call the crisis hotline. Look it up in the yellow pages for your town :). You can also try those Christian prayer lines but the ones I called wanted to put me on their mailing list so I can send money. Good luck 🙂

July 10, 2007
5:25 pm
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bmom74
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Thanks, fantas, but which crisis hotline? I looked on this website and it appears they are all for very specific things. I am not sure if there is a codependent hotline I can call or if there is just a general hotline I can call?

July 10, 2007
7:34 pm
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taj64
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I went through what you are going through. I actually was physically sick as well. And I am a healthy person. It was a tough time. I got on some anxiety medicine which specially geared to help sleep at night. Plus an antidepressant. It truly did help though I was reluctant. It helped me through a tough time, not that I was trying to take a pill for my woes but I truly was physcially sick and I was going downhill. People can truly die from a heartbreak. Don't believe it then ask around. Stress can kill. So maybe you need something for a little bit to help you sleep at night. Believe me, I have been there, and I was not suicidal but at the same time, I thought I was doomed for life. I felt helpless. So this is the first week and the frist week is hell. Then the second week is bad but not as bad as the first. It is going to take you a few weeks. To me it is withdrawal symptoms. All I can tell you is to keep hanging on and know this will pass. It will. Have faith. Don't give up, ever. You truly deserve better, and it will come. I haven't been on here too much except for a few people I just love on here and friend I help but I thought a need to reach out to you. To be honest it is taking me back and I can be a little overwhelmed with my own thoughts yet grown so much I know they pass. This will all pass. I do not know about a hotline or call, you just have to hang in there, count on those here. It might not be a voice but words on a page and those that been there, speak volumes. If you want to narrow down your problem, it is simple, it is simply getting over a love. And no easy answer but to get through it. It is a personal batter that only you can face it, head strong. And no matter how painful it is right now, it must be done. And be done with. Hang in there my friend. You are not alone.

July 11, 2007
12:08 am
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bmom74
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Thanks for the words of encouragement taj64. I have always been such a strong person and, you are right, the hurt is almost killing me. It physically hurts. I called the doctor to get on some anxiety medication at night but still am not sleeping very well. I can tell it is helping somewhat but I still lay awake and cry alot. I am also on an anti-depressant during the day. They do not seem to be helping much but I hate to think of what it would be like without them so they are a good thing I guess.

Tonight was another baseball game for both of our sons. We were both there again. I was surprised to see him as I thought he would be working. When I walked up, he smiled at me and we sat sort of close to each other on the bleachers but not like the other night. We were kind of in a group of parents setting together. It was not just the two of us setting together. I saw he has a new cell phone already. He kept it in his pocket most of the time but I did see him take it out once. He made small, pleasant conversation but that was it. Soon he got up and walked around while watching the game ... at least I think so. I made it a point not to look around. When the game was over, I just walked out with my son and did not say anything to him. So, now I am sitting here again with tears in my eyes. I hate to sound crazy, but could I be having a nervous breakdown? I just cannot seem to quit crying and the hurt is so overwhelming. I have always been so strong but this is almost too much to bear. I have never felt so overwhelmed in my life. I just keep posting here and listening to all of you that time will take care of it but it sure seems hard now. He brought his son home from the game. When his son came in, he handed me back his dad's housekey and said his dad had asked him to give it to me. I thought I was over him giving me back the cell phone last night but tonight the key was almost worse. It is like he just keeps rubbing it in my face. It is like the pain just goes on and on. Luckily, I think except for a few rainout games, the baseball games are about over so that should limit my exposure to him. I may explain to my son that I just cannot go to anymore.

Now ... another kicker ... he is looking for a place to move and his son told me he is actually looking on my same street! There are tons of places to live in this city. Why is he even looking on this street?? Talk about the torture continuing. Maybe he will decide it best not to live so close. I was walking tonight before the game and thought I saw him up the street looking at a place but I thought surely not... then his son told me he had looked at places up the street. Is he just deliberately trying to be mean or is he so incapable of having any feeling that he does not even think about it? He has told me tons of times he does not care about me so do you think he just does not even think about living up the street from me?? You would think after the horrible falling out we had that the last place he would want to be is down the street. I certainly don't want that as I will always be faced with him then.. passing him on the street, etc.

Thanks, Taj, for reaching out. It means alot.

July 11, 2007
1:10 pm
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StronginHim77
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bmom74 -

The pain of being abandoned by someone we desperately want to love us is TERRIBLE. Most of us on these threads have been there. It is so hard to get through those early days when the pain is raw. I, too, got physically ill, like Taj described. The stress and heartbreak were so great that I had to get valium and sleeping medication from my doctor, to survive it. And I remember that he was all I could think about. I would wake up crying in my sleep, tormented by dreams about him, his desertion, his rejection of me.

So, my heart really goes out to you. What I can share with you is that the pain DOES get better, as impossible as it seems right now. DO get medical support. DO surround yourself with kind and gentle friends. DO get his son out of your house because the "third party" contact and information feedback trickling through his presence in your house is gonna continue to tear you up and make your recovery that much harder and more painful.

Do you own your home or do you rent? If this jerk moves in down the street, you need to relocate. I mean it. GET AWAY. Your peace of mind depends upon severing all contact with him. You don't need to know where he lives, what choices he is making, what he does...NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. It is done. You need to get his child out of your house and shut down all avenues of info on this guy.

I know how hard that is. It just about killed me when I was in the throes of early separation anguish. I would pounce on any piece of information I could get about my ex...from any possible source. Just seeing his SN online was a "fix" for me. So, I had to finally block him, so that we could not see one another...nor receive emails...nor receive telephone calls. That way, I would never know if he tried to contact me. We don't need to know. We need to heal and move on.

As far as not attending your son's ball game because he might be there? NO WAY. You cannot hurt your son that way. Your son must be MORE IMPORTANT than your feelings about this man. Your son should come FIRST. If you cannot handle attending the games alone, (knowing that you may, indeed, see him), then take one or two understanding friends with you. Wear sunglasses and a hat. Sit in a quiet spot. Better yet, bring your own folding chair and sit FAR AWAY from the crowd. But be there for your son.

Why is his son still living in your home? How soon can you move him out? That situation MUST be remedied ASAP. In the meantime, do not let that son be used as a tool for third party info on the ex.

It's over. Grieve. Cry. Kick & scream into a pillow. Post here on these threads. Join CODA and get sponsor whom you can call when you need support. For some of us, the nights are the worst. For others, it's the morning or the weekends...

However, remember this: You made him the center of your universe. That was unhealthy, even if he had been the greatest guy in the world...which he certainly wasn't. But you chose that toxic relationship. FIND OUT WHY. Work on your own recovery, or you will find yourself in an identical nightmare in no time flat. Take it from one who has been there. (I think I may hold an unofficial AAC record for hooking up with personality disordered men: two narcissistic husbands and one borderline ex-fiance in less than 4 years!) So, I know what I am talking about. You will gravitate toward -- yet another -- user, unless you focus on your own recovery.

God bless and comfort you.

Keep posting. Each day of "No Contact" (including by THIRD PARTIES) will find you stronger and stronger. You can do this. And we are here for you.

- Ma Strong

July 11, 2007
1:54 pm
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bmom74
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I thought maybe I should explain why I have his teenage son. It seems my posts are always so long and let me apologize in advance for that ... but it seems this just has so many details to tell.

First, his teenage son and my son became friends in school several years ago. This is how I first got to know my "ex" (I am calling "ex" for lack of a better word. I fully realize he always referred to us as just friends). We were both single parents and, at that time, talked about car pooling and such. My house has always been the one where all the boys seem to hang out (you know how there is always one of those houses?) and his son was one of them. His Dad and I got be better friends and his Dad started spending alot of time at my house then, too, just hanging out.

When he went to prison a couple of years ago, his sister and her then new husband took guardianship of his three children. They are all good kids in my mind but there is a strong preference by his family for the younger two. The teenage son is not his biological son but my ex did not find this out until his son was about 7 years old. Apparently, his name is on his birth certificate but it was only when something happened healthwise that he found out he was not his biological son. Still, he has raised him since birth. The ex has three children with two different women he has never been married to. His teenage son's Mom is addicted to crack from what I hear and lives out of her car in some other state. He has never really known her... okay, so having said that ...

When the three kids moved in with the aunt and new husband, the teenage son was definitely the odd man out ... and actually, pretty much always is. In their defense, he was very disrespectful to them and got into constant trouble. The flip side of that is they never wanted him there in the first place and made no bones about it.

My ex came out of prison last summer and started living with me. The three children continued to live with his sister until he supposedly could get on his feet ... almost a year later. Anyway, there was constant turmoil between the teenage son and the aunt and uncle. He stayed at our house many times just to get away and, frankly, they wanted him away from them. I have not liked some of the things he has done either but also see both sides of it ... the kids is just not wanted. Even when there have been problems and the aunt and uncle have tried to get my "ex" involved, he has said "he is not my son." This has always ticked me off because maybe he is not his father biologically but he is the only father he has known from birth.

It all came to a head Memorial Day weekend when there was a huge blow up with the aunt and uncle and the teenage son. As a result, they said he could not live there anymore so he came to live with the ex and me and has been there every since. Even when I kicked out the ex, the son stayed as the ex did not have a permanent place and could not take him. Truth is known, I don't think he probably wanted to take him. Don't get me wrong, the ex cares about him but certainly not like he does the other two kids and anyone who is around them sees that. His teenage son has told me many times I am really the only mother he has ever known and I believe that. He has never been disrespectful to me and others have told me is it obvious he loves my like he would a mother. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying problems still will not happen,but so far, I have had no problems with him at all since he has been with me. However, he is lucky if he talks to his Dad once a week. He is only there temporarily until his Dad finds a place to live which I understand is supposed to be August 1.

I know what you all are saying about the son being a connection and that he needs to be out of there, but I just cannot hurt this kid. We are really the only "family life" he has ever really known. He loves being at our house because it feels like a home. Actually, my ex always said this too and this is why he liked it so well (besides an easy financial ride obviously) so, it is a tough decision to make ... anyway, this is why he is still there ... basically, nobody wants him.

July 11, 2007
4:21 pm
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PL
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Hi bmom74

How is the no contact going? It is so hard to maintain it and you will find yourself going through so many different emotions but with each passing day you can begin to feel the benefits of it. It also gives you time to reflect and think things through clearly.

You mentioned in one of your posts how you thought you may be having a break down and were unable to stop crying. I have had those thoughts too and it can be the smallest thing that triggers the tears. I have cried in work, at the shops, on public transport. I have cried until I have felt that I have no more tears left. I think it does you good in the long run to let it all out and is part of the grieving process.

You are in a tricky position with the son. He is going to be a constant connection with the ex and will make getting over him so much more painful, but at the same time how do you punish a child who has grown to love you and depend on you. Asking him to move out is the logical soloution but realistically I don't know if I could do it.

Did you go on your date? You sounded so positive and strong when you were talking about it. Keeping yourself busy and your mind occupied helps so much. As for the no contact just try to take small steps with it. We do not want to hear it but having no contact with these men is the only way forward, what we do not see or hear cannot hurt us.

As for him looking at houses in your street, it sounds like he is playing serious mind games with you and is after a reaction. This is why no contact is so important. Try to stay strong and even though it is hard to imagine this time will pass.

July 11, 2007
4:46 pm
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bmom74
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Hi, PL. I have not gone on my date yet. He did call me over the weekend and asked if I would be interested in getting a drink and listening to some music sometime. I said yes. He said he needed to check his work schedule and would get back to me. So far, I have not heard back from him but I really think I will.

You are right. I was doing so much better and then I saw the ex at the ball game and the whole cycle of crying my eyes out started again.

July 11, 2007
5:41 pm
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PL
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bmom74, it will get better, as is mentioned by so many people only time and distance seem to ease the pain. It is almost like a death. You wonder how you are ever going to function without this person in your life, how are you going to ever feel the same again, but you do. It is a healing process.

You are in a more difficult situation as it is hard to avoid seeing him at the games, but like you said the games will finish soon so it will be a little easier.

I believe everyone we meet in life teaches us a lesson. The hard times you are going through now will make you a stronger person and hopefully make you determined to accept nothing but the best from your next relationship.

Try to remember that you are moving forward now and into a happier future. The gap he has left can now be filled by someone good and decent who truly deserves you.

July 11, 2007
5:57 pm
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PL
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bmom74 - just an after thought. If you are having difficulty sleeping. Try reading the "no contact-revisited" thread. Ma Strong words it perfectly as to why no contact is so essential. I read it every time Im feeling weak and it really does help.

July 12, 2007
9:40 am
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bmom74
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Hi, PL. I did read the "no contact-revisited" thread. You are right. It is great and did help. I am now into one day of no contact. I walk every night but took a different route last night trying to insure I would not see him driving or anything. I keep thinking about him and wondering what he is doing but not necessarily obsessing like I do after I see him. How long does it take to not love him?? Are some of you still in love even after a year or so of being away from the relationship? I know some of you talk about still getting weak moments.

July 12, 2007
9:57 am
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bmom74
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Just a follow-up ... I do really miss him though. I keep thinking that a month or two ago he was still living there. Actually, it was about six weeks ago he sprained his ankle severely and I waited on him hand and foot. He must have told me he loved me 100 times that weekend. It is those kinds of memories that are hard. That is when it is helpful to read the "no contact" thread.

July 12, 2007
11:50 am
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Thank you for the explanation about his son. I do still have a couple of questions: (1) How old is this son? (over or under 18?); and (2) has he graduated from high school yet? If he is 18 and finished with his schooling, he should be working and saving for his own place somewhere. But if he is only 15 or 16 and still in school, obviously that would be impossible.

Part of what you are "missing" about the ex is being part of a COUPLE. That is a tough transition. As a couple, you had a date for Friday nights, you had someone with whom to cook & eat dinner, you had someone to care for you when you are ill. So, part of your sense of loss stems from no longer being part of a couple.

However, you DO have a son. I have two sons, myself. And I thank God for them every single day. Their love and support make such a difference in my life. Your son should be your focus. NEVER put a man over your son, until he is raised and "launched." He is the persono in the world who needs (and deserves) you the most. He will never turn against you or reject you. And that is something wonderful to be grateful for.

I was giving some honest thought to your questions about still feeling "love" for someone after a year of No Contact has passed. My answer? Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, No. I still miss my late husband (who died four years ago and is the father of my sons). We were together for nearly 20 years, so I have many memories of him...most of them GOOD memories, until the end.

However, the narcissist I married the year following being widowed? I never even get a "twinge," thinking about him. Nothing. No good memories. NOTHING. The borderline personality disordered ex-fiance whom I dated for 16 months? Occasionally, I pass a car that looks like his and I will remember him. But I would NEVER take him back into my life. I pray for him, occasionally. But I would not want to see him, unless he were on his deathbed and asked to see me to help him die peacefully.

The recent marriage to a narcissist has been the easiest to exit. I was married to him for eleven weeks, then moved out. I have never seen him, since. Do I occasionally miss him or the good moments I had with him? Sure. I miss the good moments. But they were ALL at the beginning of the relationship. Once he married and bedded me, the Monster emerged and life with him became a living hell. So, whenever I feel bad about those early, courting moments, I remember that he was simply projecting a false self, to suck me into his net. Now, I am waiting to raise enough $$ to divorce him or -- hopefully -- get the marriage annuled.

When the sad moments come, read your old postings (or journal entries) about all the bad stuff he said/did to you. Reality is the cure for our grieving. REALITY. TRUTH. WHO THEY REALLY ARE AND HOW THEY REALLY TREATED US.

We were not loved by these men. We were used. That is painful, but we can heal and move on. Keep posting. Keep busy. And do your best to focus on THE REALITY OF WHO THIS MAN IS.

- Ma Strong

July 12, 2007
12:39 pm
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bmom74
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Hi, Ma Strong. His son is 17 and will be a senior in high school next year. So, as you can see, this makes it pretty difficult. My son told me again last night about how much the ex's son likes living there. It makes it really tough because, as I said, no one wants this kid. I know it is still a connection, but honestly, he and his Dad are not very close so if they talk once a week, that is probably the standard and then he calls his cell phone. He does not call the house so it is not like I am faced with it. His Dad has not come to any baseball games this year until this past weekend and I could tell it made his son happy he was there. When my son told me this last night, I told him I was happy he liked it with us but bottom line is he needed to be with his own family and that I was sure he missed his own family on some level.

I am hoping I hear from the guy I met on July 4th to go out this weekend. He works out of town sometimes and may be out of town this week, but I think I will hear from him this weekend. As I have said many times in these posts, I am not ready to be "in love" at all but just want to keep busy. It helps.

I still miss the ex so much but am trying to do what you said Ma Strong and write down all the mean things he did and keep them close to me. It is still the whole girlfriend thing that kind of bothers me but I have yet to see her so that helps, too. His son keeps telling me she is not his Dad's girlfriend, but like many of you would tell me,what difference does it make anyway? He said he was not attracted to me after all. I noticed when I went to the ball game the other night and walked by his car in the parking lot, it looks like he has most of his clothes in his car so he is not anywhere too permanently. I know.. I know ... I should not be thinking about that.

Even after all this, the scary thing is if he came back and wanted to live with me again, I am not sure at this point I am strong enough to say no. I still even dream about him. Day by day I guess.

July 12, 2007
12:51 pm
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StronginHim77
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He is toxic. He is unreliable. He is unproductive and undisciplined. He uses people. He wounds his son's spirit with his rejecting behaviors and words.

AND YOU WOULD LET HIM BACK INTO YOUR HOUSE?????

Why?

July 12, 2007
1:12 pm
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bmom74
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Hi, Ma Strong. Believe me ... I know! I am working so hard on this. I am just being honest in my posts here. I still love the guy, toxic and all .... but I know I shouldn't which is what I am working on.

And,yes,his behavior toward his son is despicable. So, I ask myself again ... how can I feel this way ... I look back now and know I always wanted to "fix" him. I just knew I could but there is no fixing anyone. I did not realize this until I realized I was codependent.

I was reading Codependent No More last night. I could relate to almost every page in thet book ... scary.

July 12, 2007
1:41 pm
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nappy
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Obsessing is a emotion that you truly need to let go of. I guess we all comes here for answers but the true answers lies within ourself.
There is no one here on this thread that can tell you how long that the pain will last. The only person that knows that is you.
Successfully, you will get from "it over" to "I'm over it".
So many people mistakenly assume that they are over it only to experience some rational setback and then realize that they are not and it is painful because you are going back and forth with your feeling.
Until you make up your mind, then the healing will begin but right now, you are to focus on this man. Your every word is about him.
We cannot change anything unless we accept it. And you need to accept the fact that this man has moved on with his life. You need to take control of your pain, because you are the only one that is responsible for your recovery.
I know that you are not a mean person and you do mean well, but this man son should not be living with you. You need to cut ALL TIES from this man even his son. The reason for this is because you don't seem like you are strong enough to face the ex. Even just going to a ball game.
You need to look into the mirror and find YOU. Somewhere in this relationship you lost yourself. You need time to grieve the lost of this relationship. Completely!!!!!!!
At the end of the day recovery is not a race. Just because your ex may have moved on, it is of no relection on you, your worth, or your future.
I believe time alone doesn't heal. You have to want to get over your ex and see yourself happy without him.
If you're unable to get past this pain, you will never be free from your ex, and you will truly be stuck and don't you feel that you deserve more in life then to be miserable every single day thinking about this person.
Stop living on hope that he will come back to you. He is not wasting his time so why should you.
Nappy!

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