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Ultimate Boundary Question
May 17, 2006
6:01 pm
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Matteo
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pinkcloud,

Great post. That experience you are talking about - was a real sex! In my understanding sex starts with entering one's personal space, and there is so much more to it than just an actual act.

Very good point about taking pleasure versus trying to please; in the end there should be always balance there.

StronginHim77,

I agree with your post with the exception that in my opinion a committed relationship equals marriage, even without vows.

May 17, 2006
8:09 pm
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And how about the feeling of coming and becoming so alive because of genuine pleasure and pleasure shared? And to see, feel, touch and experience with your lover this peak experience of loving? Of both of you becoming and connecting in a way that neither of you could ever believe to be true. Growth?? Perhaps from deeply experiencing the self and other?

May 17, 2006
10:56 pm
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glittered when he walked
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At the end of the day for me it boils down to this. Many folks don't have the same sex drive. What's wrong with masturbation as long as it doesn't compromise your sexual relationship w/ your partner? (as in "not tonight honey, I'd rather masturbate")

These issues about masturbation puzzle me at times...is masturbation really that different a form of self gratification from say taking a long relaxing bath by yourself. Yes, it's selfish, but as long as it doesn't interfere with your relationship is it a problem?

My wife has told me that I taught her that women could masturbate. That shocked me. when we woudln't see eachother for extended periods she would masturbate. she's fine w/ it now.

May 17, 2006
11:15 pm
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Hope this doesn't freak you guys out, but some girls actually like to watch. Can I say that here? It's very true!

The sexual part of our relationship was at times the only part that functioned well. Among our favorite thing to "do" was put a chair at the foot of the bed and put on a show for the other person...

We really liked seeing each other excited. It, in turn, excited us.

No girls allowed? Not all the time.

It just depends on the girl!

May 18, 2006
12:02 am
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free2choose
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oK...It seems as if there are two very sererate and distinct topics of conversation here.

1: Masturbation in the sense that NoPity is talking about, which seems to me to be having a partner who is addicted to porn/sex/masturbation to the point that it is severely interfering with their relationship.

and

2: Masturbation with in a relationship, by either partner, that is a shared sexual activity, or one that is not looked down upon in certain circumstances, such as time apart, etc...

I must admit, because I am away from home for a week at a time, I masturbate when I am away. So does my partner, I am sure, although it is not something we really discuss. If she does, I do not have a problem with it.

During sex together, we have also done stuff like Young is talking about, which was agreed upon mutually, and we both feel emotionally OK with.

Masturbation in this type situation is ENTIRELY different than the one that NoPity is talking about. Her husband/boyfriend is acting out an obseesion/addiction that is harming his relationship, and the masturbation is but a symptom of a larger problem! The problem is his obsession with porn/sex, and the way it affects his ability to be a sensitive and caring partner that is present in the reality of his relationship, rather than trying to fit his relationship into the mold of his fantacy. Fantacies are good, if both partners enjoy participation, but when one partners gratification is met at the cost of the other partners uncomfort, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!

NoPity, on Oprah not to long ago, she had an interview with Kurt Frankilin, a FAMOUS GOSPEL PERFORMER. Franklin and his wife were on the show talking about his SEX ADDICTION and how it had almost ruined thier marriage. His addiction took the form of viewing internet and traditional pornography, masturbation, cheating on his wife, and also bringing his "prverted' sexual demands into the bedroom with his wife, and expecting her to fufill his fantacies. (I use the word perverted because I couldn't come up with another one..I d not mean to judge...)

He talked about his need to hide his addiction, about his guilt, about how much of a hypocrite he felt like because of his profession as a gospel singer. He spoke about wanting to stop but not being able too, JUST LIKE AN ALCOHOLIC!!!

His wife spoke about her insecurities, her pain and grief at loosing her husband to his addiction. She spoke about her struggle to WANT TO PLEASE him AND FEAR OF LOOSING HIM IF NOT GIVING IN TO HIM vs. her own HUMILIATION, degradation and disgust at the things he asked her to do... She spoke about feeling ugly, unwanted, inadequate, because of his Want of her to look, act and react like those women of porn.

This sounds like YOU, NoPity, and I want you to know, the situation you are in is a common one, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!! There must be resourses out there for you! Maybe try Oprah's web site, something like that...

Most importand, like someone else said, his addiction is HIS...it is of no fault of YOU. YOU ARE ENOUGH, you are worthy...and you deserve to be treated as such. DO not sacrifice your BODY...Do not sacrifice your SOUL to his addiction!!! Take care of YOU!

I hope that you find help!!!

Love,

Erica

May 19, 2006
10:52 pm
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nopityparty
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Hey thanks for clarifying for me. My BF was on tour all last year and porn was what worked. hell, I packed it for him. His history is filled with porn, but luckily it kept him from having many partners. His first experience with sex was kinda kinky and his first girlfriend was forced to reenact porn basically for him. One time he made her cry. So I KNOW this isn't me and I know HE IS AWARE of how he is (though he argues about whether how he is is a problem).

Point is, he treats me well in bed and my obsession with whether or not he masturbates in order to find out if it's affecting our sex life is backwards. My searching around in order to VICTIMIZE myself is what makes his masturbation an unhealthy part of our sex life. TRUE, in the past it was a "I'd rather do porn today than you" because of our oppositte schedules.

So when we talked, and I approached it by saying "so what's with the porn" which didn't set it off right. After he expressed what I wanted to say better with I STATEMENTS--"I need you to help me out. I am having a hard time with porn right now, and I don't know why since in general I don't think it's a big deal. but I need your help"- we compromised. Because of recent events making me insecure, he has promised to not watch porn or images for a while to give my bad snooping habits/mental torture a break. In return, I allow masturbation because it is going to happen (and I'd be a hypocrite since I've always done it) and focus on me and not following through on temptation to see if he has masturbated-because I allow it, so, so what.

Seems like a decent resolution to me. Because what is more threatening to my sexuality: other women, or myself, breaking down and being a mess and creating huge barriers?

May 19, 2006
11:18 pm
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nopityparty
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I want to add something important i realized: When I realized I didn't have control over my boyfriend's sex life, I understood I had given him control of mine. I was no longer making choices every time i was with him and not anyone else.

Fear of being in control of my sex life, it leaves me feeling every choice needs to be made and that the whole world is available to me all at once.

I just read a thread about sexual abuse and so I think that because I have a history of that with vivid memories (and it didn't involve men, but girls in my preschool, accidently seeing a porn at 4, and a massive masturbation addiction of my own since 5)is the reason why I DON'T WANT CONTROL or NEVER felt it was mine.
All of our problems have simple answers.

May 20, 2006
1:31 am
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Masturbation is definitely always a private act only to provide a tempoarary release of pend up anxiety. It should never in my opinion be used in a partnership. The purpose of a partner is to share what feels good together. If you still need to mastubate with a nother individual . Perhaps you are not satisfied. The danger of masturbation it is hard to stop. I can give you an example of the danger of it. I was in a sixteen year lesbian relationship. My partner was a very busy person. So her answer to sex was:"Can we wait until the morning". Now in the morning she would brutaling rush my orgasm into a 30 second timebomb. I hated it. Started masturbating so I wouldn't ask for sex. She really started not to care. I started reading sexually explicit books, porn, going on the internet to have cyber sex. I almost cheated with a very married person on my parttime retail job. I ended up leaving her after she got her master's degree .Gave her the keys to the car. And walked away with a woman I made at a home buyer's seminar. I was fine Stopped maturbating during normal realtionship hours. However in my sleep I would masturbate unconsciously while laying next to the person. At first she tought it was erotic. Then she realized that I was asleep.She cold busted me I was embarassed. I denied it .Bad idea. She was hurt and our sex life slowly dimished until she left me and went back to the lover that she previosly lived with for eight years who she hadn't seen in a year. Met her at a funeral. And that was all she wrote. She was out. She thought I was sneaky and had some kind of problems. Because she said was all I had to do was wake her up. Because she liked alot of sex. Damn I blew it. Listen people if you are in a relationship please make masturbation a private act. It is not good for the other person's self esteem. Or for the bliss for the relationship. Peace and love to all.
Give all your pent up steam to your partners.

May 20, 2006
3:39 am
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nopityparty
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Thanks for sharing your story, though I have a hard time seeing exactly what is behind it. However, I think a good point from what you wrote is that masturbation is something hard to quit. It is also a part of many animal's instinctual mannerisms so to speak. Also, the lesson I take from your story is that if one partner is not sexually satisfied, make sure to put sexual energy back into the relationship and not away from it (or focus on other forms of sex to better the sex within the relationship because that just doesn't make sense). When I consider use of novel sexual experiences, i will makes sure to ask myself "Does this invest or withdrawl from the relationship's intimacy/bond/and easy going nature"

May 20, 2006
11:08 pm
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nopityparty
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funny moment to those reading this thread: I'm at barnes and noble because codependent nomore is taking forever at the library. I'm reading, having a low low low moment, and then see this paper sticking out of the chair. I pull it out and it is a magazine add with pictures of male porn. I have to say, I laughed and laughed at the absurdity of it all.

May 21, 2006
9:20 am
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bonni
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I feel like when my dh masturbates, its part of our sexual relationship, whether he's in the shower or 3000 miles away. My dh has a very strong drive and mine is lower. we have young children and i'm tired. Id rather him masturbate than make me feel bad when i'm tired. we don't have sex together unless we both want to. when he was overseas, he was lucky enough to have his own room and could do it whenever he wanted, but he came home on leave and we were not matched - sex was very difficult because he was used to it and I couldn't last long. I scolded him and told him that before he came home again, he had to lay off. I want him to masturbate when he needs to, but it can't interfere with my pleasure. I think FreetoChoose is right. if he was choosing to masturbate instead of having sex with me, when I wanted to, then we'd have a problem. he likes for me to watch, but I'd rather go to sleep. If I watch, I'll end up finishing things for him (which I think he wants). I don't like to masturbate, its difficult for me and its alot easier to have sex with him, since he almost always wants to. when he's gone i'm too busy or too tired and rarely alone. i missed the intimacy more than the sex.
bonni

May 21, 2006
12:49 pm
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nopityparty
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I miss both. I work days, him nights, and he just can't seem to wait during the day for the nighttime. I'm just going to do my codependency book, see my therapist, vent on here so I don't drive anyone bonkers, and research narcissim when I feel secure enough about my worth and judgment (not anxious anymore and have detatched)

May 21, 2006
7:55 pm
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nopityparty
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Trust me no one wants this thread to end more than me:
Of course, pictures are being used and he's back at it. He stayed up till 8am. He did it in the afternoon yesterday. And then I have to practically force myself on him today, and he's tired on 3 hours sleep so of course it sucks and of course I feel guilty for making him exert himself.
I'm hot. 23. Need sex every other day-3x per week and I get it probably twice a month, more if we are getting along, he's not depressed etc...
I know stopping my codependency will help the situation, he'll want me more and more often.

But is this just him as well, being selfish and addicted to masturbation? It just hurts so much and I can't be in the moment anymore. I hardly even enjoy sex. I will remember one time when "it" didn't happen because I needed to change positions and he lost the erection. Yet he believes a stiff one needs to be taken care of in the afternoon when I am not around to do so--wouldn't it go down in no time just like it did with me? I don't get it. I know depression and other reasons make sex not on the menu, but isn't it also his evasion from intimacy? I need a male perspective here.

May 21, 2006
8:25 pm
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Anonymous
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nopityparty,

Hi. You asked for a male perspective, and I'll be glad to give you one.

From your last post, your husband's porn is obviously interfering with your sex life. YOu also said earlier that he coerced you into some embarrassing sex.

His masturbation affects your sex life. If he's satisfying himself, it means he's not available to satisfy you. It deprives you. That's selfish of him.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think your husband has the right to masturbate without you watching. You may choose to not watch, but he doesn't have the right to insist that you don't watch. Secretiveness is the enemy of all marriages. You have the right to know exactly what he's doing in that aspect and for how long he's doing it. IMO, if you're married, you have the right to know EVERYTHING about your spouse. You may waive that right in some matters (such as toilet functions), but you always retain it.

I was involved in porn for a time, and it had no positive benefits. It only drove me further away from my wife, caused me to desire sex with and lust after other women, and emboldened me to start trying to have an affair with a young woman who lived across the street. Thank goodness she moved away, or I may very well have.

I'm a male and I never was in the habit of masturbation, not even as a hormone-driven teenager or college student. I just was never drawn to it.

Also, you said this earlier:

{ok so i ask him about it and he just says its morning wood and everybody takes care of it somehow and tells me i'm being ... lame.}

He has no right to tell you how you should feel. Your feelings are your own and you are entitled to them. Don't let him get away with this. Please make sure he knows that he is not respecting your feelings. They are trying to tell you something.

And yes, I think the above can legitimately by a deal breaker.

Take good care,
Seeker

May 21, 2006
8:46 pm
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nopityparty
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ugh i want to put a parental block on his computer. but that'd be controlling.

May 21, 2006
8:58 pm
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bonni
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privacy for toilet functions. now, that would be a treat. i don't have privacy for anything. we can't have sex in the afternoon without the girls banging at the door. not to mention the dog. she WILL get off the bed, but not for long.

May 21, 2006
11:24 pm
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nopityparty
21-May-06

{ugh i want to put a parental block on his computer. but that'd be controlling.}

But that might restore some sanity!

May 24, 2006
12:48 pm
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seeker,thank you for that *healthy* male perspective. My exbf wants to maintain a non-sexual "friendship" with me and I am still trying to find my way with that.

This thread is helpful for me as I had little idea what I was walking into when I got involved with him. I wasn't able to comprehend the degree of self-absorption and selfishness, nor had any clear idea of the healthy alternative.

Having keyboard problems... must truncate... but wanted to thank all for your input, especially seek. Hoping for better times ahead, kroika.

May 24, 2006
1:05 pm
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nopityparty
Oh lord if You only knew! my ex fiance and I were together for a long time. He always wanted sex from me. All day everyday. He could last forever, like3 or 4 hours. It really got old, oh thats not the point I was trying to make sorry. Well even after all this sex he would wake up everymorning and masterbate. At first it offende me, but then I realized it was part of his normal rutine. It was abit scary I must admit. Masterbation is normal, I know people have differant opinions about it, but I dont see anything wrong with it as long as he is satisfying you also. I know some men do it so they will "last longer" Hey after all he is with himself not somone else.I have heard all men do it. And if you ask me women do to they just wont admit it. Now one the other hand , if he spends hours a day watching porn there is a problem in himself, He may need counseling. I personally dont think anything wrong with a little porn.Somtimes it is good to try new things, try watching it with him, he might like that.

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