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August 13, 2000
5:41 pm
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the last two paragraphs are articles from the web, they define two types of ppl, anti-splunkers and stealths.

August 13, 2000
8:00 pm
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Guest-guest.
Thanks for the very insightful profiles of the Anti-Spelunkers and the Stealths. In comparision with how I was as a young fellow, I identified with both of them. t that time of my youth, I created a persona which I knew people liked and wore it like a suit of armour. I thought that the person, that I thought I was, was no good.I thought that I was a coward. I locked that yellow belied person away and tried to become someone else. I tried to commit 'psychological' suicide. The only way that I could live with the pain that resulted was to drink heavily. Well... didn't that lead to a catastrophic end. I was forever trying to prove to the world that I was a mixture of Muhammed Ali, Cary Grant, and Albert Einstien. In fact I was the village drunk, totally out of touch with the common reality. It led to a deep, dark, dank, smelly pit of self loathing and despair. I hit a 'rock bottom' in January 1973. It has been a long rocky road up out of that abyss. But it sure has been worth every bit of it.

Since then I have learnt that everything that I think, say and do has consequences for me and/or others. I learnt that I am perfect in my imperfections. I learnt that sometimes the very defects that I abhor are what attracts other people to me. I learnt that if I plant weeds in my head, I won't get roses. I learnt that if I want potatoes, then I had better grab a hoe. I learnt that whilst I am not responsible for how I was brought up, I am responsible for unlocking the door to the prison inside me in which I exiled myself and for befriending myself.

But most of all, I learnt that today I have the responsibility of caring for, respecting, nurturing, and disciplining with love that tiny immature emotional part of me that screams out to be loved. If I abrogate that responsibility and seek to get others to take over that responsibility of mine to validate me and give me worth, then there will surely be negative consequences resulting from that decision. Usually such demands on others to meet these needs are found by them to be tiring, repulsive, pathetic, restrictive and downright a pain in the arse.

I have also learnt that this little tiny emotional self is my greatest asset. From that 'child' originates my passion for life, my joy, my exuberance, my motivations to take on challenges. Like any good parent, all I need to do is to guide those passions in a loving and thoughtful way. I have to be aware of the rights of others as well as my own. I need to seek thoughtful solutions that do not frustrate the needs of others and most importantly do not frustrate my own.

I have also learnt that what I perceive as needs are exactly that; perceptions. My perceptions of reality are not necessarily the same thing as the commonly held perceptions of reality. If two people have widely different perceptions of what should happen in a common environment, then conflict and/or frustration is likely to result. However, thoughtful considerate communications between the two can result in a change in a perception or a change in focus from that perception to another that allows a win-win solution. I have also learnt that I have the right to be happy. But that happiness in contingent on the effort that I make to encompass others within the focus of my considerations.

What has all this to do with your low self esteem? Well... I see low self esteem is a symptom of the illness, not the illness itself. Whilst having a high self esteem is a desirable thing, solely aiming at raising ones self esteem is like solely aiming at relieving the pain of a broken leg, without understanding the cause of the pain or the need to set the leg in plaster. Sure, the doctor may give temporary pain relieving medication as an adjunct, but fixing the leg will result in automatic pain removal. The long term use of alcohol, drugs or any other means of running away from the pain of an imprisoned and disowned self, is like treating a broken leg with pain killers and nothing else; gangrene or a permanent painful deformity will in all probability result.

Facing up to one's own pain and re-possessing the disowned self, is the shortest way through. It's a very hard and unrewarding life, practicing being either a Stealth or a Anti-Spelunker. In my opinion, the easiest way is biting the bullet and facing the fear of what one might find inside. In my case, I found a very likeable little child, who had created a whole lot of bogey men, paper tigers and phantoms from the past. I also found a lot of old tape recordings of parent messages that I constantly replayed in every situation. In the light of day these ogres evaporated like a vampire under the mid day sun. I stopped playing the tapes that awoke the phantoms.

I am absolutely sure that you will eventually find a very lovable child inside of you. It will be this lovable child that the 'right' woman will also love. BUT, before she will even be able to get close enough to that child, you will have to, of necessity, reclaim that child inside you as your own and accept full responsibility for 'him' as a loving parent would. Then, you will be able to have a good 'adult' relationship with a good woman while your and her 'child' romp and play together.:-) Then the job of parenting of both children can become a mutually satisfying undertaking.

Amen. 🙂

August 13, 2000
8:21 pm
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ok thanks, i think it will take one week for me to digest all this.

August 14, 2000
3:38 pm
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that was nice, thanks.
one thing that is the charactersitc of people with low self-esteem is that they want to be 'different' than other people. i see there are many other happy people on this earth. if i become happy and they also become happy, what difference will be left between me and them? but i know when i'll be happy, this thing wont bug me then. but for right now, it sometimes worries me. i guess it will take time..

right now, some things worry me, e.g. i've gotten alergic to studies. this term i'll be taking some difficult courses, i already failed in one this term, cause i didnt feel like doing the homeworks. another thing is that when i meet a person for the first time, i'm more talkative but things die down to a point when i dont feel like talking at all. even if someone asks me something, i'll not want to talk. i know this is not good... cause communication is necessary for relationships (duh.. 😐 ). my child (yea 8months have passed, one more to go..hehe).. my inner child doesnt like to work, doesnt like to talk (most of the times), is just numb. but i wonder whats happening to me. where is the child, what am i, where am i going.

August 14, 2000
6:24 pm
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Guest-guest.
You said, "... my inner child doesnt like to work" Most 8 mths old infants don't either.

And, "... doesnt like to talk (most of the times)," It can probably talk just as much as any other 8 mths old infant. Language hasn't developed very far at that stage. Just a bit of da, da, and cooing etc.

And, "... is just numb." Well ... if you severely deprive a human baby of love and unconditional regard, at 8 mths it becomes numb. It shuts itself off from the world and withers. Old, unethical experiments on baby monkeys and on human babies from an orphanage showed this.

And, "... but i wonder whats happening to me." You are starting to reach out to the world for the respect, love and due regard to which you are entitled as a human being. You are probably confused by the plethora of emotions that are surfacing as a result of early deprivation.

And, "... where is the child," Preserved in a set of infant and childhood emotions stored in your amygdala in your mid brain.

And, " what am i," You are a being, who is self aware. You have a conscious awareness that resides within your working memory. You can observe the interplay between your thoughts and your feelings that occcurs within your working memory. Are you just these things? No, I think you are much more. But... understanding yourself at this lower level is a good starting point.

And, "... where am i going." A question asked by humanity since time immemorial. Find out who the 'I' is and that question becomes redundant!

August 14, 2000
7:51 pm
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thanks thanks. why do u give me so much time? am i not a pain in the back ? i ask so many questions, at times just ignore responses, cause i didnt feel like saying anything at that time. i feel u're going to get tired of me!

August 15, 2000
4:18 am
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i hit a bad point in my life today. there was a social function and i failed miserably, in my view point. i saw someone who was so free, so much better than me, no hangups, so different. he stood out, dominated everything. i have no confidence in myself. though i'll know what i am apeparing like, i'll be trying to control things, try to keep calm in myself, but i still failed.
after coming home i thought to myself why did i have to come in this world if it was all going to be so pathetic and useless ? whats the point of my life? i thought of suicide, saw no point in my life, saw it as a big failure. i feel it will not change ever. i wonder why i breath, whats the point of my living. i feel so angry towards god to have given life to me this way, i dont see the point. i dont see any hope. the guy i saw, i imagined his siblings, his sisters, they must be cool like him too. look at me... what a failure.. i want to cry but i cant.

August 15, 2000
10:09 am
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guest, I remember feeling exactly like you do. But as time passed I learned that each individual has something spectacualr about them, but the ones with low self esteem usually don't know it.

Low self-esteem is perhaps the root of all psychological dysfunction. A woman with a strong idea of herself who is cofident and sure, when assaulted or raped, will have less future problems with PTSD and anxiety than a woman with low self-esteem (LSE). LSE is what intensifies the effect of anxiety and depression.

Do you know what I did to increase my self esteem? It sounds crazy. Only a woman could do it. I learned how to bellydance (I had taken ballet, jazz and tap all my life so it was very easy) and I started dancing in arabic clubs for tips. I was only 17 at the time, but it was strange how dancing made me feel confident in my body and myself and I felt strong and powerful, even though I knew they didn't respect me, I could still control them with a flick of my hips.

Find something you'd like to do and learn how to do it. Don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself. Try martial arts, or some physical activity that challenges you, like rock-climbing.

August 15, 2000
1:34 pm
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i dont feel like doing anything. i have no energy. at times i dont even feel like going to bathroom and u're sugesting me to try rock-climbing. sounds funny..
i hate life, i hate everything..

August 15, 2000
2:25 pm
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guest-guest,

I happened upon this thread…glad I did.

I recall more than a year ago, when your posts were as if you 'had it all together', or as if you might have 'known something the rest of us didn't'. There was a harshness, a closed person.

I don't see that anymore, at all.

I see a man facing truth, and a man who cares enough about the boy inside to continue to seek self-love.

Getting to this point, is, half the battle.

You will contine to grow, even though you feel stuck now, I can bet you on that. And the guy you saw at the party? You will get there, on your own terms, your own way, in your own time.

- SC

August 15, 2000
2:33 pm
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*tears* .. thanks..
shit... life sucks.. it isnt getting anywhere, i cant survive life, its too much for me. i think i'm not equipped to handle life, i should have been a fly or a toad. i dont know why it is the way it is, i dont know what to do. in the morning i was feeling so angry i felt like picking up the screen and throwing it out of the window and break eveything else too. i thought of going out and killing eveyrone and destroying everything. shit.. i hate god i hate life. thanks for giving me importance, i bet i'm just a pain in the behind. all you people will grow tired of me.

August 15, 2000
3:30 pm
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SC u're just trying to give me hope, make me more hopeful just giving me false hopes. how do u know i'll be better ?? everyone says it'll be alright. but people just say that for the sake of it, just for giving hope.
yes i'm now facing the truth. i was probably just high at that time or in denial. and i'm still a closed person, i dont like to talk, help people and make friends. i dont care about anyone now. i dont want any relations with anyone. everything makes me sick.

August 15, 2000
4:38 pm
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YOU ARE A CREATION OF GOD IN GODS LIKENESS, YOU ARE LOVED GUEST

August 15, 2000
5:31 pm
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You're here, so I have to believe you want to talk & reach out to others.

Therefore, I would conclude that:

you want to talk, you just are having trouble talking, and have fears about the consequences of being vulnerable.

In the some logic, you've also bridged denial with self-reflection. Don't let self-reflection become self-brutilization. Your imperfections are what make you, you.

You're stuck.

Let others, who also know life-pains, give you encouragement. It's real, or we wouldn't be here either.

You'll find it.

August 15, 2000
9:07 pm
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brenda i dont beleive in god, i dont want to beleive and u cant do a thing to make me believe. well sc i dont know. u said i'll find it, well how do u know? i know i'm stuck ...

August 16, 2000
7:14 am
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Hey there guest.
you know you dont HAVE to believe in god! I don't! and I don't think that there is anything anyone could say that would make me believe either!

faith is a great part of some peoples lives, and because it helps them, they want others to feel the same joy they do - and so they try to show you how this feeling feels. Sometimes it works and others to then have faith.
But to each their own. If you are not a person who has faith then that is your life - you are not damned or a sinner for that.

The real battle is having SELF faith. that is what you need so badly, and although you think that what we say is impossible - it isn't

then ONLY thing that is stopping you make progress is YOU!
You will not ALLOW yourself to even believe that you MIGHT one day feel better than this.

YOU have basically said to yourself "others can change but I CAN NEVER CHANGE< I WILL ALWAYS FEEL LIKE THIS" and you know what? while you think that, you are right. you have given yourself a CERTAINTY in a world that is fluid. What I say to you Guest is this. firstly, ask yourself WHY you cannot believe things can improve? is it because you dont have the energy todo the work that you will need to do? it doesn't take much hard work if youtake it slowly. How hard really can it be for you to say to yourself "okay maybe one day, I will grow to like myself a little more, maybe one day I will see just one thing that I like about myself?" it is YOU right now that is refusing to take the first steps towards your own future, becauseit is scary - I know becuase I did the very same thing. but for all the things I found I didn;t like about me I found so much that I did! you keep saying that we will get sick of you. Why? because you are sick of yourself? then you lose respect for us. Why? because we can't see what a waste of time you are??? is that your thinking? Well, you are not a waste of time, but in a way you are wasting your own time. and that is the frustration you feel. deep down your mind knows that it must face these things, yet at the same time fears it. this results in the lackof energy, the lack of concentration, the lack of focus. it gets so bad that you get angry, you want to hit out at people and things because they remind you of this. but you are pushing at a door the wrong way my friend. All you need to do is push the door from the right side and it will start to open. thwe right side is to recognise the fear inside you and to determine yourself to be brave enough to try. be brave enough to lose yourself into your homework and study hard one afternnon, be brave enough to make yourself a good meal and eat it. be brave enough to looka t yoursle fin the mirror and CARE about YOU andcare for your feelings. you really need to make the intellectual decision that you will start to be nice to yourself. It doesn't come with feelings it comes by you taking charge and decideing to change your negative thoughts. Feelings can bluff you, deciding to become your own friend is something you must choose to do, even if it feels fake at first. the only person sick and tired of you is YOU. not us, we may feel frustrated for you but not frustrated BY you. you need to say to yourself "I am being ruled by feeligns that have been created by people OTHER than me. from now on I must give myself the chance to see who *I* am, not see myself by the negative things I have been conditioned to believe." from now on it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing or saying - shit, there are loads of people better than me at all sorts of stuff - I felt just the same way when I couldn't walk down the end of my garden alone for years - I felt so crap when I saw other people driveing their cars or going outside alone, all the time I looked at them I was just crippled by how huge a job I had on my hands that I just hid from it. then one day, I guess the bravery grew big enough taht I said to myself "sod this. I need to see what *I* can do, not compare myself to others" and I started my slow journey. At first I would walk 100 yards out mu house down the road and feel sheer terror - there is no other way to describe it. but INSTEAD of looking at other s I focused on myself. if I walked 200 yards by the next week then SHIT, that is 100percent progress!!!!! I would buy myself flowers to congratulate me! even now, If I compare myself to others, I fall pretty low down! but i don't.... I compare myself to me before. Before I was at homw and afraid to go out, now I can walk down the road and take an art class - that is PROGRESS, but if youcmpare yourself all you life, where is the ability to make progress? REAL results only come by challanging YOU to domore that YOU did before. putting a third party into the equation is just self defeating ways of running away from the work that needs to be done - you set yourself up to fail so that you don't even have to try! if you try to see that it is YOu that must DECIDE to change, the things will happen really quickly. I learned that, I spent 7 yrs, thinking that one day I would wake up and feel different, feel braver etc. the thing I learned is it is only BY DOING these things that you can get better at them. just with you, if you keep on talking with people and tryign to ignore those feeligns thatmake you want to retreat into yourself them, then bit by bit you will get better at that SKILL, for that is all it is a SKILL - not a devine gift. but like anything, you need to define what it is you need to imporve and PRACTICE it. with me it is going out and about alone. what is it with you that you need to PRACTICE? maybe concetration? maybe not listening to those negative thoughts - maybe you should PRACTICE saying STOP when those thoughts come and distracting yourself with soemthing else, maybe you need to PRACTICE socialising? only you know what it is you need to improve on. But I think if you ask anyone here, there things that you feel you lack, halp the time you have to RE-TEACH yourself, and that meens practising, there are noshortcuts there, but the rewards are plentiful. dont allow yourself to get lost in despair, you know and I know that the despair comes from wanting to feel better wo much but not knowing how to do it, well practising and defining what you want to improve are ways to feel better. take small steps and it happens. Peace Hazza

August 17, 2000
12:39 am
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i need opinions. i cant decide.
i have two options in a job i'm doing. either i do it at day time, but there will be more people to deal with. i run from people, i dont like people, dont like talking, dont like the disappointments from people when they meet me (cos i'm not so enthusiastic and customer friendly as others). they sense my blocked mind, they see that i dont like to meet them, talk to them and i want the transaction to be finished as early as possible so to minimize the length of interaction. sometimes i'm confused and i'll do something wrong, misunderstand them and and not able to decide what to do first if there are more than one things to do. at tiems i've seen people get disgusted at me cause of my low self-esteem, confusion and inability in the job. often many can handle the job better than me. i'm only feeling good a small fraction of the whole time so most of the times i'm this sort of person that customers wont like; not too friendly, and mind blocked. if there's too much to do i get confused and i'm burning inside from the disgusted or pitiful/whatever looks i get from people when i get this way during the job.

so one option is to do my job in the day time when there will be more people. yes it might be difficult for me to deal with people, and try fighting not to lose myself when in front of people. maybe i'll get better. OR i'll fail again, get the disgusted looks from people and feel worse about myself than before!

the other option is to do the job after midnight. almost the whole next day is spent sleeping to make up for the last night, but there are fewer people to deal with so there are more chances of me not geting disgusted looks from people, and finding more peace of mind. also i might be able to find time for myself doing some other private work (since there are fewer customers during that time). but i saw last time that i didnt really do much private work (like studies) even when i did have free time during the job. I'm so good at killing time, making the clock go round so quickly and having nothing done. so probably either way i wont get any private work done.

so what to do? to do the job during the day, but facing more people, feeling more incompetent about the job, but save my nights for sleeping OR doing it during the night, and sleeping the next day,being more at peace and staying away from people ?

i really cant make the decision. i know there are people who know for sure what they want but this isnt the case for me.. 🙁 .. i cant decide so many things in my life.

this term i have to study hard, my grades are very low (from last time) i have to study hard this time. if i dont i'll be in more trouble. every time i say to myself i'll handle it this time, and that i just need to study a little everyday, but every time i fail and it makes me lose more and more faith and i'm doubting myself now. i dont know what to do.

August 17, 2000
8:52 am
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Hi,
I am actually blueeyes but I can't for some reason access my usual password!

cici, all I can say, after all the good stuff that's being said here is, my heart goes out to you. I felt like I wanted to cradle that child and rock her to sleep. (The abused child).

guest_guest,
I was just wondering if you had considered this;
do you actually KNOW that people think the way you say they do, about you? Have any of your customers actually said that they think you're mind blocked etc.? Is it a cognition of yours. I wonder where you learned to think that way about yourself?
These questions don't need an answer. My message comes with love.
🙂

August 17, 2000
10:24 am
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guest

It's hard to tell. Depression is a very, very selfish emotion. That's what makes it so terrible to experience. You walk through the world with a heaviness on your shoulders that seems unbearable. You back aches, you body ahces, your head aches. You're filled with anger and impatience, and this sometimes boils over into unexplainable rage. You're unable to control your emotional reactions, so you shy away from people.

Believe it or not I was in the same place you were, when I was addicted to drugs. At one point I withdrew from all interaction, even from my family, for two months. I didn't speak to anyone. It was a very lonely time. I realized, then, that human are at their essence social creatures. When you withdraw from society you make yourself more vulnerable to depression because there are no limits to how far you can spiral down.

The thing is, I got a kick in the butt. My father is dying, see, slowly, painfully. He started two years ago with a degernative spinal disease. Now he's wheelchair-bound and has lost bowel control. I looked at him. His life is over and he wanted to share with me what he has learned these past 70 years.

I can't explain it. You say you have no energy, but I know that's not true. THE ONLY THING A MAN TRUELY OWNS, THAT NO ONE CAN EVER TAKE AWAY FROM HIM, IS HIS ABILITY TO CHOOSE HIS ATTITUDE WITHIN ANY GIVEN SET OF CIRUCUMSTANCES. Viktor Frankl.

What does that statement mean to you?

August 17, 2000
2:27 pm
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bluie, once a customer did say soemthing to me. he said 'you look confused' or you look tense. not everyone says these things, almost everyone just makes a silent comment in his own mind and moves on. those who comment are probably mixed up themselves (i know that guy who said it). but still there was a comment. its not that its only one comment that i'm taking to heart, i can see it in people's look's and attitudes when they deal with me. i mean i know what it is.. i'm not making up things.. its true most of the times.

cici, i know that statement, and that u chose ur own life basically but the thing is its easier said than done! duh..
if it was so easy changing ur attitudes why are there so many who cut themselves, take drugs, abuse and get abused, are depressed and have anxiety etc.etc. Its possible to change ur attitude but when u've got the thinking pattern and atitude u have about urself for the last about 20 yrs, then its not just waking up in the morning and saying ok i'll be happy today! .... sigh ..

August 17, 2000
5:50 pm
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i think this is why i cling to my bad moods. when i was small i remember if i was more cheerful my mom would ask me more about my studies, have u finished ur homework, done with studies etc. i rememebr i got the habit of forcing myself to appear down, depressed and mellowed so taht she wouldnt bug me and bring me down. now when i get up in the morning, many times i dont feel like getting up washing my face get ready. even if i do its not gauranted that i'll feel better. today i was thinking i dont want to feel better by doing some thigns e.g. listening to cheerful music, forcing myself to get ready. if i do these things, will i be 'numbing' my pain? or is it natural for me to get help from things to start feeling better? or should i feel better from inside without any support? i dont know why i cling to my bad moods, hold on to them, dont feel like getting better. maybe i'm afraid that when i'll fall back into depression, which will almost certainly happen, then it will hurt me more? maybe its better to stay down so that i dont get hurt in the fall. ?

August 18, 2000
1:13 pm
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HEY GUEST, YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IN GOD BUT GOD BELIEVES IN YOU me toooo:):):)
You sound tormented you poor soul, I will never again get frustrated with someone who seems to lack confidence and speed..never again.
You are your own worst enemy friend, you sure chew yourself up some dont you. You have embodied your mom, dont do that.
You really need to FORCE yourself to take a chance with being VULNERABLE with people and life. Trust that all will turn out better than if you continue to retreat into your own personal hell within your own negative thoughts, fears and tapes.
God bless
Do something today to force yourself to be vulnerable and intimate with another......please...step off that cliff, you wont die, you'll grow wings...promise.

August 18, 2000
1:15 pm
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If you cant do it for you do it for me...ok??let me know how it went.

CICI HOW ARE YOU GIRL?
I sure hope things are a little more manageable, but it sure is hard to manage the anger, rage and fear thats coming up for your around your issues of victimisation....anger is the first step towards healing,,its better to feel these feelings of rage than to suppress and medicate them, wouldn't you agree???????
Dont run away from them, journal and talk with a friend, exercise and help others who have been victimised by rape...god bless

August 18, 2000
1:30 pm
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I'm ok. It's a day-by-day thing. I know I have my down days and my better days and I just go with the flow.

I went to my doctor and she prescribed Buspar, but I'm scared to take it. I had a bit of trouble with my stomach and I just hate nausea. Blech. It ruins your whole day.

It helped, also, to finally get some sleep. My doctor gave me four sleeping pills and it sort of re-set my clock. Last night I was able to fall asleep on my own and it felt so good. The only bad part was waking up!

Maybe it is PMS, I know I'm more affected by things at the beginning of my cycle. I'm more irritable, more easily frightened and more emotional. I'm going to try going off the pill to see if my moods change.

Guest, I know it's easier said than done, but it can be done. My Mom taught me to be determined. In her case, she's strong to the point of being inaccessible and sometimes cold. I learned from her to want something badly adn to try adn try and try until I get it. I hate being depressed. It hurts me and my relationships. I can't let myself wallow for long. Before I become sick of myself.

August 18, 2000
2:17 pm
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bredna what do you mean, forcing myself to be vulnerable? what does that mean, what should i do ?

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