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August 2, 2000
5:33 am
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Iris
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I like the way and the directions these threads keep changing and the words that describe thinking and feeling. I might not be as skilled as some of you in dealing with words, but I might give it a try sometime.

Cici:
Fortunately or unfortunately we can't, voluntarily, wash our minds out.(I haven't seen the movie but I am sure from your reaction that it is a stupid one. This is not the only stupid movie, there are a lot). So, it is not a matter of washing out some contents of our minds because this is part of our "whole".Besides, how would we enjoy good movies if we don't have images of bad ones? Life is full of opposites, if we don't feel upset and feel anger and feel depressed and all those we term as "negative" how could we feel those we term "positive"? I don't think we can "think" if we don't have these opposites. This is why it is impossible for me to accept that in heaven (if there will be a heaven) there will be no negative things, every thing is positive:we have no thinkink (is this heaven or hell?).

But may be we could make things easier to us by doing such things as stop our thouths that disturb us and substitute it with other thoughts that are relaxing to us.Doing whatever relaxes you and let you focus on something else is absolutely beneficial (mantra or reading a book or whatever).

But past is past and we are what we are in the present.What we are today is affected by our past of course. When we remember some experience, it is never the same experience, because it is a present "image" of that experience.No matter how it is vivid or accurate, it is still an "image" of that experience and not the experience itself.This means that my present believes and attitudes and feelings and aspirations...etc affect how I evaluate this "image". So, why don't we view it this way, an image? Remember that the movie itself is just a total of many images.

(For mantra, it is meant that the words have no meanings, just voices to help focus our attention and our mind away from anything else, so you can choose any voices you want).

August 2, 2000
10:03 am
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Sometimes I think there's no such thing as memory...acurate memory anyways. Even as we experience sensations or interactions, we change that moment with teh color of our emotions and stamp it into our memory in a distorted way, like a funhouse mirror.

One physicist I was reading about theorized and proved that the universe doesn't exist, just nodes in time. He claimed that we create the physical world that we measure and see because our minds need that concrete externalization of reality in order to function.

Some quantum physics conundrums also prove this...like the way photons and quanta seem to have an instantaneous consciousness because we change the position of the measurement each time we meassure by virtue of our very examination of the particle.

Reality is fluid. Am I wandering from the topic? Am I over-intellecualizing again to prove to myself that the pain that this intense memory has recalled isn't real? That my mind has distorted the trauma over the years into something huge, monstrous; a clumsy, out-of-proportion monster out of my own creation? IS taht so bad? Some people seek the solace of God. I suppose, in a way, I see God in the symmetry of science. Even chaos has a discernable pattern. Every choice and experience must have a reason.

I like myself now, with all my faults and my crazy horomones and mood swings. I think that those who feel the most keenly are the most sensitive. Like the drug dealer in American Beauty. Sometimes experiencing the world is so intense that it's painful, but if you look at it in the right way, it is a gift.

August 2, 2000
8:17 pm
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Iris.
From my perspective, your posting of 2-Aug-00 is 'spot on'.

August 3, 2000
2:17 am
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Thank you TEZ, I like the way you perceive things.

August 3, 2000
7:34 pm
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Cici.
You said, "Am I over-intellecualizing again to prove to myself that the pain that this intense memory has recalled isn't real?"

When in India many years ago, I was taught by the Yogis to sit in the position of the 'observer' of my 'thoughts' and 'sanskaras'.

I now see this as a 'game' of watching the interplay - in my working memory (my awareness) - between my 'thinking' and my 'feeling' self. Both physical parts of my brain - being in a constant state of flux - are ever changing. It seems to me that my 'reality' is a construct in working memory of 'unthinking' feelings based on emotional memories and 'unfeeling' thoughts based on event and script memories. How 'real' is either or both when combined in working memory?; only real to the subjective experience of the individual. I tend to agree with your theoretical physicist who hypothesized about the probabilities that realities are nodes in time. But isn't time itself just a subjective projection of mind as well. It seems to me that we may well be subjectively focused nodal functions of 'Mind' in a dancing interplay.

Psychological pain, in my opinion, is the mind locked into a struggle to overcome its own illusory vulnerability, created by recall of past fear combined with projections of thoughts about those feelings. The realisation that 'feeling threatened' is not a reliable indicator of a 'real' threat, can help considerably to pacify that emotional arousal.

Then comes the much deeper question: is there any such thing as a 'real' threat?

August 4, 2000
10:21 am
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I think that in the physical sense, yes. Being chased by a mugger, or a wild boar for that matter. (I'm apt to say the only time I ever want to run is when I'm being chased by something large and threatening).

When it comes to psychological therat, I'm not so sure. I know that when I'm threatned at all by a man, I'll cower. A raised hand, even to emphasize a gesture, can make me wince. This is due to past physical abuse. But my reaction, as you have often pointed out, is out of proportion to the stimulus.

I feel highly sensitized to psychological stimulation. I have a wealth of emotional memories that can react, interact, and implode (ha ha).

This to me is the essence of the drug abuser. One who is so sensitive tha tthey feel they must deaden their senses to exist. Or one who is so insensitive they feel they must over-stimulate themselves to feel anything. Balance is the key. Can a pill give me that? Or am I permanently out of whack.

When I was a child, I used to cling ot my mother's legs, burying my face in her skirt to hide. I was shy, afraid of strangers, of those who looked odd or grotesque, afraid of everything. i have carried this with me into adulthood. Am I hardwired, then, to over-sensitivity and destined to try to deaden this?

August 4, 2000
7:18 pm
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Cici.

If all of reality is a projection of "mind", then the wild boar and the muggar would also be projections of that same "mind". If "mind" is doing the creation, sustenance and destruction of its own "fantasies"- those that we call reality - how can any real threat exist to that eternal "mind". All would be a "game". Of course all this is conjecturing about absolute reality, about which we know nothing. We are left with subjective realities, of which there is one per person. We struggle to find "a common reality" and then we label it the "norm". Outliers on this distribution curve are legally defined as insane. But when does the beliefs of the "norm" ever guarantee truth? When humanity all believed that the sun rotated around the earth, did that make it true? I'm sorry for using this time worn, hoary old example.

Back to 'practicalities', as wild boars and muggars are not my 'norm', I can honestly say that almost all of my daily perceptions of threats originate in my amygdala. They are triggered by external events and internal thoughts. Sometimes my thoughts seem to be able to predict external events and the beliefs and intentions of others. But when on the odd times that I seek validation, I find that they very often do not.

My security needs dictate that I create the illusion in my head that I have a good grasp on what is "really" going on. But alas, my intellect tells me that I rarely seek this confirmation and I observe that I am often in "fantasy". It is this "fantasy" that can become a 'hell or a heaven' in my head. The more that I challenge my negative fantasies by reality checking, the more that I find the illusory nature of the 'threats' in my life. I am usually 'jousting with phantoms' from the past and trying to validate their 'reality' by trying to prove the validity of my perceptions of the threatening nature of present events. It's all a very tiring, wasteful game. I often evoke that which I fear. Knowing this alows me to progress in the opposite direction.

Being male - lucky me 🙂 - I have only an indirect knowledge of P-M-S. However, I am cheeky enough to suggest that the negative psychological effects of this hormonal disturbance could well be attributable to the chemical retriggering in the amygdala of fearful emotional memories of the past.

From the above, I think that emotional memories can be triggered into our arousal system:
(1) directly by sensory input without cognitive appraisal.
(2) indirectly by thoughts about the meaning for us of sensory input.
(3) directly by thoughts and reflections that occur in isolation from sensory input.
(4) Hormonally by estrogen or testosterone flushes.
(5) by various combinations of the above.

In any case, I see that our hope in achieving a happy life, lies in finding cognitive techniques with which to:
(1) directly pacify fear arousal in all its disguises.
(2) maintain a high emotional threshold level below which event and thought triggers are ineffectual in causing arousal.

The use of drugs to inhibit emotional arousal worries me. Having experienced this first hand some years ago, I believe that at best chemical intervention is a short term necessity and at worst in the long term another terrible and 'unnatural' chemical dependency that does not lead to a high quality life. Having said that, I would NEVER advise anyone not to take medically prescribed drugs. I am aware of cases where this was done by well meaning people and it resulted in the suicide of the person being so ill-advised. I propose the 'middle road'.

I understand your past use of drugs and the possible physiological damage being done. But I have personally known perpetual metho drinking hobos in AA who have rehabilitated themselves to the point of getting a job, getting married and living a happy life. One guy used to stagger out of the park next to our meeting to 'bum' cigarettes. He stayed for the ciggys, the food and the warmth. After several months something miraculous happened. He asked for help. I know such happenings are rare, but it shows the power of the mind with the 'right' therapy to 'cognitively' heal itself. Please believe me when I say that I am eclectic. When it comes to the type of therapy, I think it is a case of 'horses for courses'.

I think happiness is all about effective fear management in all its many forms. Once fear is reduced we are then able to positively interact with others in the world to create and enjoy. No longer do we have to man the parapets on constant watch for 'the enemy'. 🙂

August 7, 2000
10:24 am
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Sometimes I think I shoud go on disability. PMS disability. No more having to deal with people who normally I would face with a sunny smile. I now find myself growling and feeling a viscious hate inside me for the most innocuous people. Living in the world, I think, makes me hostile. I feel at the verge of something terrible.

I didn't really have temper tantrums as a child. I was very quiet adn well-behaved. I was too shy, really, to do anything other than be quiet, read or play quietly by myself. It's just that my mind seems ot be out of control. I have begun crying, or tearing up, at the least provocation. I thought it was PMS but I think it's different because it's lasted for nearly two weeks now.

My therapist conjectured that I may be bipolar. My mother was, terribly so, at manic points she would clean and scream and force me to scrub floors with rags on my hands and knees and beat us with broomsticks. The other spectrum was kind and gentle, cuddling and sweet, the perfect mom who didn't even make me eat my veggies. You can imagine living in a constant, low level of fear arousal, wondering if what you did today would set her off.

I can't shake that feeling of a low-level of fear. I check my shower curtains, open doors, glance behind me. A psychiatrist my therapist referred me to also said I probably was bipolar. I rejected her idea os much I never saw her again. I don't want to be doped up on depakote, an anti-seizure medication.

I feel it again, though. sleepless nights, weird thoughts, suspicious of my friends even. It's like I can see from behind my eyes, I'm watching myself spiral down into a strange, bizarre crazy person. I don't know what to do. i made an appointment to see my doctor.

My mother told me to see a doctor for my nerves. I don't want to be medicated into oblivion, but it would be better than living like this.

August 7, 2000
8:23 pm
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Cici.
I believe that early in our life we EMOTIONALLY learn about the nature of our world. If we, emotionally as infants, learn that the world all around us and from which we cannot escape, is a frightening, unsafe and unpredictable place, then we spend the rest of our lives constantly being confronted by retriggered emotions of fear arousal. Only the level of arousal seems to vary. I suspect that both you and I fit this category. As you so clearly described, your mother, upon whom you, as a child, believed your whole survival depended , exhibited such unpredictable behavior. I'm sure I've told you nothing new.

The big question is what do we do about these emotions of fear? Well... we can give in to them and choose to believe that they reflect the true state of our reality and act out. Alternatively, we can choose to inhibit them with drugs therein inhibiting a survival mechanism bestowed upon us by nature. Or we can choose to use the tremendous power of our mind to understand and manage (not repress, suppress, dissassociate, or disown, etc) them.

I personally found the zombie state very unpleasant to say the least. I started to become very angry dispite the medications. My psychiatrist's answer was always to increase the dosage. Titration he called it. I called it blind meddling with the physiology of my brain and rebelled by telling him as much. I give NO advice whatsoever in this regard. From the standpoint of realising that I have a different head than you, I only relate my own experiences. After my rebellion, my psychiatrist advised me that I suffered from chronic depression and that he had never seen anyone in my condition recover without drugs. Well... I proved him wrong. Today I lead a good life.

As far as categorisation of fear into its clinically defined name, that's fine if it helps to find an appropriate therapeutic technique. On the other hand, if it leads to putting a full stop to further self help, then I'm not so sure. Again, I am not suggesting going it alone without professional help. It's just that all professional help is not equal. Some is better than another and some is downright harmful.

I know that you are a very clever, bright and intelligent person Cici. Of this I have absolutely no doubt. With your academic training and contacts, you will have no problem getting good professional help with BPD and what that entails.

The main thing is to realise that our perceptions are not the same thing as absolute reality; they are very subjective reality. There are as many realities as there are people. Our emotionally distorted perceptions can result in us living in a 'reality' of hell inside of our head. The challenge for us is to turn those perceptions around and create a heaven, inside of our head, instead. For it is only our perceptions of the world and of ourselves that we can really control. The outside world has too many other co-creators for us to maintain control over that.

August 8, 2000
9:28 am
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As the wicked witch of the west said, "oh, what a world, what a world..."

Tez, I think you didn't really tell me what I've already heard or know. I suppose I never thought that far, that being frightened of my mom all the time could affect my life now.

It's strange. I talk to her, but it's never really a conversation. Just small talk. I think, how can I harbor any bitterness for this woman? She's devoted her life to caring for an elderly man who is slowly becoming more dependent on her and slowly easing into the dementia of old age. She gives me money, food, help when I need it.

I feel guilty for feeling fear, how very Catholic of me.

It's so tempting, you know, for me (though it was repellant to you) to let myself ease into a mental oblivion of mindlessness. Like the confined ladies of old who drank laudnam, derrived from opium. I did it before, see. Every day is tempting. Drink a little, smoke a little, snort a little. Prescriptions would just fill the void that drugs have left in me.

I suppose I'm going through what Tears would have called a dark night of the soul. I keep it secret here, in the outside world I live in. Happy faces, smiles, cooking dinner and washing dishes and writing checks. Inside my head it's so dark and jumbled.

A certain points in my life I had nervous breakdowns, always during some stressful situation. Complete breaks from reality. I don't remember much. Once I was on vacation with my family and for a week I talked nonsense, didn't eat and locked myself in my room, screaming and crying and beating the walls. With my mom as she was, though, no one thought I was dying or anything. THey waited for me to come back. I felt like I was on a really bad trip that last for days and days. You know what finally helped me? Pot. Huh.

August 9, 2000
7:02 pm
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Cici.
I understand where your at. I have been in the 'horrors' (DT's) on more than one occasion. Even today remembering those experiences or a long time ago, I am unsure where the borderline, between events that happened inside and outside of my head, lies. It was a life of just sheer terror, only the degree changed. I lived my life with such pervasive fears that I never knew what it was like to live without fear. I thought that this was how everybody felt and lived. I was constantly ready to fight, run, appease or depress which ever seemed the best option at the time. I thought that 'kool dudes' were people who felt as I did but somehow rose above it and 'fought' against all odds to rise supreme.(John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Gary Cooper in High Noon, etc) Needless to say, I was a 'walking disaster area'. I no longer live like that today. I've learnt a little about my emotions.

I may have given you the wrong impression of my experiences on medications. I didn't experience mindlessness or peace. I experienced a horrible 'flatness'. It was an absence of 'feeling' altogether, rather than just an absence of fear. I felt like the walking dead; a zombie. I was able to think very clearly, but was unable to feel. YUK!! Anger finally broke through.

I have never smoked pot, but with alcohol, for a very short time, I was able to feel good, to feel OK about myself and the world. Not so with Prozac, Prothiaden, etc. I don't know what the latest cocktails are like nor do I want to know. I value the clarity in my head these days too much to dull it with mind altering drugs.

I have found that I now can 'manage' the madness in my head - without acting out - just as loving parents manage a tantrum throwing, hysterical, terrified child. Love is the great cure all. The challenge becomes one of learning how and why to love the unloveable in the self and in others. It ain't easy though. 🙂

August 10, 2000
4:25 am
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often i cant half understand what u're sayinhg tez, but then i say to myself u've got more experience, and i shouldnt push myself too hard to understand anything if i didnt get it! maybe i'll get it, maybe not .. 🙂 and a lot of others too, cici etc.

ok i wanted to say that ppl who say drugs are correcting the brain chemistry for ppl who are too depressed or anything else, anxiety etc. But where did that anxiety or depression come from? was it less brain chemicals which caused depression or depression caused less chemicals? i like the thing u said 'mind altering drugs'

if i have this stubbornness inside me not to give in on myself no matter what happens, sometimes it fails sometimes its just like feeling numb. sometimes i'm pushing myself mentally a lot and i feel the pressure in my head. will that willpower somehow change my brainchemistry gradually?
can i change my brain chemistry without drugs? if the abuse brought me depression and changed my brain chemistry, then i should be able to change the chemicals back with self-healing, but not drugs. right?

August 10, 2000
11:12 am
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My mother was definately bipolar, my siblings and father have all agreed. Now, though, she has occassional bouts with being completely unreasonable, but mostly she is balanced.

But do you know why? Because biploar mood disorder eventually balances itself out. During middle-old age manic episodes decrease in frequency and eventually dispapear all together. She fought no battles to win her sanity. It came back to her without so much as an apology, or a great struggle to allow her martyrdom.

As will wrote in Othello, "An honorable murderer, if you will; for naught I did in hate, but all in honor."

Hoe easily we can decieve ourselves. Smoking pot is balm to me, like slathering that cool aoe on a sunburn. It doesn't stop the brun forever, just postpones when you feel it. I realized yesterday that I am a hypocrit. I still smoke pot. That's a drug. I'm still addicted.

I've gone without it, panic attacks and irritability all aside, to face the world with sobriety is so deeply frightening to me. Sice I stopped taking all other drugs, including alcohol, I have begun to withdraw from the world. I loose touch with old friends, but I hide inside my apartment and keep my silent distance from co-workers and classmates. Quiet, studious, afraid to interact.

talking to my sister the otehr day. She has become a shut-in with her new baby as her only copmany. Sometimes she vists my elderly father and mom. She said she realized when she was younger that she is greatly affected by the emotional states of those around her and has thus limited her contact with people. That has isolated her from everyone but her husband and family.

I'm doing the same thing, slowly. Sinking sinking, slowly down. I am Ophelia floating on her billowing skirts, waiting for them to become so waterlogged they drag me down. Into what?

Sometimes I envy older folks. They have their lives behind them, stretching back like a long, complex train. With ghosts of people long gone to other places to keep them company. I am young, still. Looking forward to a world left polluted and sagging by my parent's generation.

Jesus, someone get this girl some Prozac.

August 10, 2000
3:35 pm
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cici u said :
" I loose touch with old friends, but I hide inside my apartment and keep my silent distance from co-workers and classmates. Quiet, studious, afraid to interact. "

well i'm all that, i lose old friends, keep in the apt, keep my distance from EVERYone ...
u're atleast studios. so u're better than me!

August 10, 2000
5:20 pm
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Cici.
You said, "Sometimes I envy older folks. They have their lives behind them, stretching back like a long, complex train. With ghosts of people long gone to other places to keep them company. I am young, still. Looking forward to a world left polluted and sagging by my parent's generation."

'There's nothing new under the sun' in an old saying. In one sense its false because everything is new at every new instant. And yet in another sense it is true; everything is cyclic and seems to repeat. I see myself having thought and said the same things as you are saying now. Life is a struggle to do two polar opposite things. On one hand we struggle to fit into a secure network of friends and family and we feel terrible in our loneliness, on the other we rebel, hide and struggle to break free of the psychological family bonds that seem to prevent us from becoming who we really are. We yearn for the 'paradise lost' and resent its overpowering nature at the same time. That's life.

On balance, those who have 'damaged' psyches, often are gifted with great passion and drives that produce 'Mona Lisas' in all sorts of guises. When it comes to the legacies of our parenting, who knows what is really a 'gift' and what is really an 'anchor'.

As for your 'envy', each age has its relative advantages and disadvantages. The price of wisdom is often great pain. Its sad when people suffer the pain without using it to their advantage. All pain is a signpost pointing to who we are. But most people seem to refuse to look at that to which the pain is pointing.

As far going 'cold turkey' alone - no way. It's best done in a group like AA for alchys or its equivalent for the druggies. Most of us seem to need the kind of support offered by twelve step self-help groups.

As for the 'ghosts' most are very unpleasant company.:-) The "long, complex train" is a very clear pattern of events and experiences that I had to have in order to be the kind of experiential being that I am today. Of course this is only obvious to me in hindsight. All is accurate and as is meant to be. We are all 'perfect' in our 'imperfection'. We are all co-creators of ourselves and this world. Nothing is separate; 'ego' is the painful illusion of the separated self. 🙂

August 10, 2000
5:51 pm
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Guest-guest.
You asked, "..can i change my brain chemistry without drugs?" Yes. 'Positive thoughts' can result in signals that can reduce emotional arousal of fear. The adrenal gland output is thus reduced. Habitual positive thinking thus can result in a long term change in this 'brain chemistry'.

I suspect that we sometimes see our brains as separate fixed programmed machines that work independently of us. Had we not developed the ability to think, then this might have been true. However, we can choose to ask questions about our emotions and feelings. We can seek to find out what causes us to 'feel bad' and to 'feel good'.

It has long been known that 'self talk' has a profound effect upon our emotions. But there are other triggers of our emotions that do not originate in our thoughts. These triggers originate in our sensory systems. However, we can monitor and use our 'self-talk' to both maintain desirable emotions and to dissipate sensory triggered undesirable ones.

As for not understanding what I say, this is a struggle that I remember well. When I was 17, in a desperate attempt to stop the madness in my head, I enrolled in a psychology class. I had no idea whatever of what they were on about. I struggled and struggled and finally gave the class away. However, I continued upon my quest for self-knowledge. I could only go at a pace set by where my understanding was at. Today, I read literature that I read 20 years ago and marvel at how little I must have understood. Yet, that literature met my needs then. There is an old saying that "when the student is ready, the master will appear." I am a perrenial student and life's masters are constantly appearing in all sorts of disguises. You, Guest-guest, are one of my masters but I guess that you don't know that.

August 10, 2000
10:48 pm
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me? ur master? how ? why ? what are u learning from me? or have learnt?

August 10, 2000
11:05 pm
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can u be as blunt as possible? just blurt out everything that first came to ur mind when u read my question (what u learned from me). even if its very critical or negative (the more critical the better!). most blunt and unedited answer as possible.

August 11, 2000
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Last night I went to see Mozart's Requiem and a piano concerto by him in d minior. The Requiem was beautiful, of course. Only the most bumbling performers could butcher something so filled with genius.

As I sat back and watched the orchestra roar and the chorus weep I thought about Mozart. Now that was a tortured individual if I ever knew of one.

Sometimes I think that being unbalanced is a gift. It lets me see things in a way no one else does. But it's a burden. THat explains medicating yourself. I'm sure Mozart would have been quietly put on lithium and some antidepressants and anti-psychotics.

August 11, 2000
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cici, depends on how you look at it girl, some "older" folks around here use that past train as an excuse to not experience a rewarding and joyeous future. YOu, could look at it like this, you have your whole future ahead of you for you to cocreate and very little past to "weigh you down"
I, I am living in only NOW...
this works well for me.

August 11, 2000
8:34 pm
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Guest-guest.

Do you not know that you, in your torment and pain, present such a challenge in understanding the nature of creation? I see that you have a 'brutal' yet endearing honesty and a 'black' humour that demands and provokes deep thought. At times I see raw emotion; at others deep cynicism. I see your volatility; your thrashing ego, inflicting great pain on itself. I see myself in the mirror that you hold up to me. What better teacher can I have than that.

Just to deflate your ego a little though after having said all that, my baby duckling who has now grown up, is also a great teacher, from whom I've genuinely learnt much. 🙂

August 11, 2000
8:46 pm
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Cici.

I had to good laugh at the image you projected of modern day pompous, self satisfied psychiatrists patting themselves on the back for having 'neuted' Mozarts emotions to the point where he met the curriculum demands as a good and faithful yet mediocre high school music teacher. It conjured up shades of "Mr Holland's Opus" 🙂

Psychological pain is the forge within which the 'lead' of the alchemist is transmuted into 'gold'. From pleasure, I learn only that I want more of it. 🙂

August 12, 2000
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right..thanks.. i know we all learn from everyone, i just wanted to know what u did from me (dont ask me what i learn from you, cause i'm not that expressive. i'd would probably say i dont know what i learnt from you).
yup, i like animals too, cause they're all clean, they dont have hangups, no egos, no insecurities or pretensions. soon i will try to keep a cat, i want to be like cats, having dignity, self esteem(!), and peace of mind (provided it gets food when it needs etc.)

are u always this expressive or do u always write when u're in the mood ?
b/w i liked what u said, can u tell me more in more detail? (here's a nickel..hehe.. just kidding..).. well, i dont know.. tell me more, i like hearing about me. (even if its bad, it gives me good feeling, cause its strage someone is thinking about me, even though its not positive. but then its abd for me to be looking towards people to see what they think about me. as a rule my actions should be independent of what others think about me, but maybe right now i'm feeling weak).

August 12, 2000
7:50 pm
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Guest-guest.
You asked, "are u always this expressive or do u always write when u're in the mood?" I'm always in some mood. What I write and how I express myself depends in part on my mood at the time.

You said, "but then its bad for me to be looking towards people to see what they think about me." Well... I guess that depends on why you want that information. The truth is that you are a 'not a bad bloke', as we would say here. I see you as a struggling human being seeking to find yourself and the place in which you fit in this world.

You also said, "... as a rule my actions should be independent of what others think about me..." This is an interesting statement. Shoulds and oughts are terrible task masters with which to flog ourselves. The 'committee in the head' is very good at coming forth with the 'shoulds and oughts'. The 'task master' that carries out the 'committee's' directives sure knows how to whip those past fears into life and to revive those past feelings of guilt, self-worthlessness and self-condemnation.

And, "... but maybe right now i'm feeling weak)." Feeling powerless perhaps? Am I understanding you correctly? Feelings are not very often good indications of 'facts'. You are - in fact - very powerful. Maybe you just don't know this or you haven't tapped into that power yet. Believing in yourself is just one prerequisite for tapping into that inner power source.

Guest-guest, I want to ask you a deep and personal question. Do you think that there exists a woman in this whole wide world whom, if she 'saw' into your very essence, your very core, could love you for yourself as you are right now, independent of what you could do for her?

August 12, 2000
10:54 pm
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well i got tears in my eyes when i read your question. the first answer and it really came very spontanously and from depth, it was a silent and sure 'no'. well i dont know what to do.. sigh ..

but u know i dont know my 'core' myself. at my core i dont see something definite. its all just confusion. whos gonna like me then cause right now what i am, i cant trust people.. i dont accept their love. here's a nice article that described me in relationships. it happened with me with someone i met online. in real life i just keep myself away from everyone. whenever i've noticed girls smiling at me or taking interest in me on any way, i run away, deny it, either thinking that she doesnt know the real me or thinking that i was just impressing her in a fake manner and my real stable self is not that impressive. very often and especially with girls, i dont return smiles. probably cause i'm afaid of failuire. what if she came near me but got disappointed? the solution i think at that time is to not let anyone come near me so i dont run the risk of disappointing her and consequently effecting me too.
b/w today i felt i HAVE to get in a relationhsip even if it will fail. not online but a real one. lets see what happens..

here's the article, it came on msn.com one day. : (i'm the stealth type i think, though the anti-splenker also seems close)
--------------

Anti-Spelunkers. The Anti-Spelunkers fear intimacy. The word intimacy comes from the Latin word intimatus, meaning innermost or deepest. Having depth in a relationship is like entering a cave in that you don’t know what you’re going to find - could be a bear, could be a pot of gold. Pursuing the discovery requires courage, and courage requires trusting yourself. But, you see, Anti-Spelunkers have been taught to not trust themselves. Along the way, they have received messages such as "You’re no good' or "You can’t succeed." Anti-Spelunkers have learned that no matter how much effort they give, it will never be enough.
Saddled with these negative messages, Anti-Spelunkers cannot garner the courage to venture into depths unknown. They have no hope of gold, only expectations of bears. So they turn back. But it is too psychologically damaging for the Anti-Spelunkers to call themselves "chicken." So the Anti-Spelunker says, "I don’t want to go into this stupid cave anyway. I want to go over there." But there will be a cave over there, too. In each relationship, if the Anti-Spelunker sticks around too long, there will be the threat of intimacy, and every time there is a threat of intimacy, of depth, in a relationship, the Anti-Spelunker needs to move again and again and again. The problem is that, eventually, there is no place left to go.

Stealths. The Stealths feel that they are no good inside. They don’t worry about what they will find; instead they worry that others will find them. Stealths have also learned negative messages along the way. Because Stealths do not value themselves, they fully expect that nobody else will be able to value them either. Like the Anti-Spelunkers, Stealths have lousy self-esteem. So as a nice, pleasant relationship is going along its merry way, a terrible thing happens: The other person starts to know the Stealth, and there is a threat that an unlovable inner self will be seen. The lights will be turned on so all of the Stealth’s vulnerabilities, foibles, ineptitudes and inadequacies will be seen in living color.

If the partner really sees what the Stealth is like, he or she would leave and that would be way too painful, so the Stealth leaves (or at least strays) first. And, if the other person didn’t leave, the Stealth wouldn’t want to be with that person anyway because who could have such bad taste as to stick around after seeing their ugly inside? Like Groucho Marx, Stealths wouldn’t want to belong to any club that would accept them. Clearly, this situation must be avoided. So, ironically, Stealths 'open' up close relationships in order to stay hidden. They might keep several other options available at all times, an escape hatch for when someone finally gets to know the real them. Afraid of being seen, they have someone else waiting in the wings. They try to be with many other people, keeping relationships superficial - er - sexy, making them literally skin deep. That way they maintain the illusion that nobody really sees them, and all the pain (supposedly) stays hidden.

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