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U-turn
July 21, 2000
10:55 am
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Cici
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The day before yesterday my fiancee rented a movie called "U-turn"...Sean Penn, Jennifer Lopez. He said it was really weird, but pretty interesting.

So we watched it. As the movie progressed I became more and more horrified. It has a complex plot, but the worst part was that the main female character is a young woman who is married to her own father. It talks a lot about molestation and they showed some graphic sex scenes between them and afterward I was really upset and I started crying.

I don't know if this is because I was molested when I was little or what. I didn't think a movie could do this to you. I ended up not being able to sleep because of nightmares and the whole time I kept thinking, "this is stupid, it was just a stupid movie".

The same sort of thing happened when I went to see "Boys Don't Cry" because she gets raped and they showed the whole, violent scene in graphic detail. I had to cover my eyes, and I felt stupid but I couldn't stand to watch. It made me physically sick.

Since I saw that movie I haven't been able to feel comfortable in my own skin. I wish I could turn back time and stop myself from watching that movie. How do you wash you mind out?

July 21, 2000
11:55 am
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lucky
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Cici
I know what you are going through. I my self have been malested and raped and 4 me I would not be able to watch that. I dont know if you have ever talked to anyone about what has happened but maybe it is a sign to talk to someone about it. I should realy take my own advise and talk to someone to, but you could unstand its not that easy. As for the nightmears and and not being able to stay in your own skin I know that to well I go through it every day and its very hard i understand. As for the whole situation being stupid, its not its real normal. I was always told that what I was going through was very normal but like you i felt it was stupid and that why am i haveing the nightmears and not being able to stand my my own skin? There is nothing I can say that can ever take it away but I can say that i am always here to help and talk about anything. This is a sugestion and you dont have to take it if you dont want to but it would be good for you if you were to get some counciling (sorry if i spelled it wrong) when i was in coun. it help alot the nightmears started to slow down and i was gettting alot off my chest i became more relaxed with myself and able to deal. I hope that i was able to help in some ways and would hope that you will reply and i hope that we can helpeach other in the long run that you for listening and i hope to hear from you. thank you bye
lucky

July 21, 2000
1:43 pm
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Poor Cici, friend, as you may have guessed I have stopped visiting here as much, giving advice, but I still do come to get some now and then and a little support to boot, but when I saw your post, I had to respond.
You have been doing so well for so long and I am proud of you, you quit taking drugs, quit hanging with the wrong crowd, quit dwelling on the negative and changed your whole outlook and reclaimed your life. Any mother or sister or friend would be so proud to know you.
I am so sorry to hear that movie has brought up this suppressed stuff, but as you and I both know, this has probably come up because you are now strong enough to deal and heal it.
Your mind knows this, thus it is allowing you to recall these suppressed feelings and perhaps memories. YOu are probably terrified of this and want to hold this stuff down, but your mind and your higher self and unconcious ( connected to your highest self ) know what is best for you more than your concious ego mind does so flow with it.
Get the counselling and guidance you need to work through this stuff.
I saw that movie and found it disgusting and disturbing, some parts were artistic and intersting but overall it is a very disturbing movie, especially for those who may have experienced rape or incest.
I dont know if you are questioning this, but I remember you saying your father watched porns when you were a child...in front of you? This is abusive, is there a possibility he did more than this? I hope not to offend because I know you idealise your father,....who knows....the best thing to do is to get help around the issue of the rape and the molestation when you were young, this wont go away until you talk about the feelings and experience, this brings it up for healing and releasment, all the best. God bless

July 21, 2000
6:57 pm
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Cici.may you not suffer , may you be at peace///

July 21, 2000
7:17 pm
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Thank you...I feel a little better. Reading "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" calmed me down. Why is it that reading about theoretical quantum physics and relativity calms me down? There's something so meditative about subatomic particles. Hmmm....

I'm repeating my mantra:

Om apademapa hataram dataram sarva sampadam loka bhi ramam sri rama bhuyo bhuyo namayaham

Healing mantra.

July 21, 2000
8:26 pm
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cici whats this mantra, what language is it and what does it mean? ..(thanks)

July 21, 2000
9:13 pm
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Cici.
Your opening posting is a classic example of direct retriggering of emotional memories. Dispite your cognitive assessments of the foolish nature of the film, you underwent a terrible fear arousal just the same. The amygdala has more power than the cortex in the childhood emotional memory set fear arousal power stakes, doesn't it.

So much for the cognitive appraisal theory of causes of the triggering of the emotions. I do concede though, that cognitions are very, very often emotional triggers but not always as some cognitive theorists would have us believe.

For me, the interesting thing about your subsequent postings was the calming effect of your reading of the book 'The Dancing of the Wu Lai Masters'. That book somehow enabled your cognitions to have some influence over your emotions.'How' and 'why' the reading did this, are fascinating questions that lead to a highly instructive answer for why your emotional memories are so powerful!

I believe that the key to answering those questions is 'nurture'. What was it about that book (I read it years ago) that 'nurtured' your emotions into calmness? How did it remove the 'threat' that you perceived in viewing the film?

Indeed, what was the threat that you perceived that triggered your emotional memories? Was the film induced perceived threat a real threat to you today or was it an emotionally remembered threat of yesteryear that you felt during your own molestation. Can you picture what the terrible threat to your life was, that you felt then? What was the fear specifically about then?

Viewing this film, as painful as it was for you, may well have been a great gift as a signpost for you to follow in your priceless journey of self-discovery. My horrific and ever recurring death nightmares by aphyxiation were a great gift for me. Thank goodness they're gone. I worked through the issues both while awake and asleep and they dissapeared. I learnt a lot about myself in the process.

"Sweet are the uses of adversity. Like the toad, ugly and venomous, bears yet a precious jewel in its head." - Willie Shakespeare. What is the precious jewel that your emotional disturbance brings to you? How does you mantra chanting calm your emotions of fear? Deep questions that life (not me) has chosen to ask you. šŸ™‚

July 22, 2000
2:11 am
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people who have had a happy inner child, and those who had a hurt inner child (abuse etc.) and they healed themselves. what is the difference between the healed people and those who never got ill ? will i be better than them (who never had a hurt inner child) if i heal myself?
ok to make it less intelecualizing, (i think i'm doing that often, using more words instead of less and making it comples..maybe)

whats the difference in the character, personality and temparament of people who were messed up and healed themselves, and people who were never (or almost never) messed up? do the healed ppl normally achieve more than those who never saw bad times (or atleast not as bad as the other ones)?

do they turn out wiser...? etc? (those who healed)

July 22, 2000
6:55 pm
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Guest-guest.
"Messed up" people, if they learn how to deal with their own pain, do have the rare gift of being able to share with others in their recovery. That is love in action. From that perspective, they have an advantage. One has to walk the walk to effectively talk the talk(to empathize).

However, I suspect that we all have our own 'crosses. to carry. Judging whose is heavier and whose is lighter is probably an impossible task. In terms of the achievement stakes, it's not clear to me what goals you are talking about? Pain reduction/pleasure enhancement or sorrow reduction/joy enhancement or increased peace of mind/contentment, happiness perhaps?

In regard to differences "in character, personality and temparament", those who have learned how to nurture their 'inner child' develop standards, are more emotionaly stable, tolerant, loving, understanding of the tantrums of the "messed up others", more happy, contented and accepting of life's ups and downs. And yes, they do eventually turn out the "wiser". I sure don't know how I could measure and substantiate this claim. But it is my belief based on my own experience over a lot of years.

These are highly generalised answers to questions of a very general nature. There are bound to be exceptions.

July 23, 2000
1:59 pm
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thanks... (sorry i dont feel like talking right now) ..

July 23, 2000
6:15 pm
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Guest-guest.

No worries, bro...

July 24, 2000
10:28 am
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guest...I believe it is a Bhuddist chant in the language of Pali. It's an ancient language. Unused today, like latin. It's a healing mantra but I don't have the exact translation on me.

Tez...I am sure that I was calmed by a discussion that was highly intellectual about relativity and quantum physics. I tend to intellectualize my problems. As long as I can distill and refine them into a pat explanation, I've noticed, as I explain I become calmer. When I argue with my fiancee my temper flares and as I talk about why I was angry the anger dissipates.

I don't know why this is. A love of knowledge. Perhaps, an escape into knowledge. I can hide in my fortress of esoteric knowledge.

July 24, 2000
4:04 pm
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Cici, I know your reaction was intense and probably did hit a raw emotional memory somewhere. But, y'know, I wish more people got sick to their stomachs when they watched someone's depravity. After all, that was SOMEONE'S reality, and I can get horrified just by empathy. I have watched some shows, and felt so upset, I had to apologize for watching them, and put them in some context that didn't haunt me. Now I don't watch what I know will trigger me, and it doesn't take much. My hubby says I'm hypersensitive, but I know there are limits to my sensibilities.

Quantum Physics is something that is hard to figure out, but is doable. Our hearts are hard to figure out, and it isn't always doable. The past, the memories, the reasons, the triggers. If we could just map it out with numbers and figures-- who was that Dr. who did that? Even his prescriptive tests wouldn't figure our entire histories or map our emotional memories. But thinking through something that we can figure out makes us feel less powerless. When we feel more in control, our uncontrollables are less scary. Don't you think? Knowledge is power, right? šŸ™‚

July 24, 2000
4:32 pm
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The budhist chant seems to be one of gratitude...i.e. "om" umm Quatum physics holds emotional as well as intellectual energy for me.
You should read Gary Zukavs "seat of the soul" better than dancing wu li masters...
Why does quantum physics bring you peace ( does me too ) because it is scientific proof that we are immortal, we are all connected and there is a creator/divine force ( that which is in the world of the unmanifest ) Quantum is of course the world of the manifest.
Namaste Cici

July 24, 2000
5:33 pm
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Cici.
You said, "I tend to intellectualize my problems. As long as I can distill and refine them into a pat explanation, I've noticed, as I explain I become calmer." I have found the same thing to be true of myself.

In my case, I think that there is an emotional memory of fear of not knowing the cause of things, that cause me a problem. That is, I have an emotional memory of feeling incompetent to handle a childhood situation that I thought was life threatening because I didn't understand the cause of the threat or how to offset it. Now, in adulthood, the emotion trigger is always sensitised to the slightest thought that I might not be competent to think through a situational process and deal with an undesirable outcome effectively. I can know great fear if ever a situation like that arises. A recent situation did occur like that. It was the result of my having the responsibility for my aged and demented father. I was attacked by a highly neurotic sister for not putting my father in a home immediately. My father was doing harmless but crazy things that disturbed his neighbours. My father's doctor and I, who saw eye to eye on what was in my father's best interests, agreed that keeping dad at home under supervision by professional carers was best for him. Yet I found it very difficult to deal with crazy phone calls from my sister and her constant efforts to sabotage my caring duties towards my father. I found myself desperately trying to 'make sense out of her nonsense' in an effort to prevent the recall of that dreaded emotional memory from my childhood.

I see the challenge for me is to be able to nurture that fearful emotional part of myself without having to seek the 'answers'. It is as if I, the 'adult', have to continually prove to me, the 'emotional child', that I am competent to look after me 'that child'. As I have learned that the only two realities are love and fear, I am now very committed to learning all I can about my emotional fear arousal system and its complexity of triggers. In particular I am committed to learning how to 'self nurture' my fear arousal system - when it is activated - into a state of serenity in the most effective way possible; that is, in a way most beneficial to all involved parties including myself. This, I feel, is about learning how to love.

Those with large sets of positive emotional memories and small sets of negative emotional memories will find this hard to understand. That is, those people, who have been very well parented and given all the love, respect and support in childhood, are likely to give such gratuitous and niave advice such as 'don't worry about things' and 'just let go'. As if we less fortunates wouldn't do just that if we could - eh, Guest-guest šŸ™‚

But, its a great drama and emotional memories make it what it is. I now enjoy the challenge. I pity those poor well parented people. šŸ™‚

July 25, 2000
10:28 pm
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Cici,
This is my very first time on this site. I totally understand how you feel. I am married now with 2 kids, but I still get chills or lose my breath when I see a certain face or hear or smell something. The worst is to see something on TV or movie about it. 3 weeks ago I had a horrible flashback. I couldn't believe I forgot this. And the bad part is that is was effecting sex w/ my husband and I didn't realize it untill then. Things I forgot from years ago are coming back worse. I've bottled everything up inside of me. Now, I have to figure out whether or not I need a counselor or something. Is it too late or not. I have a lot of junk in my head as do you. For one thing, I'm not even sure if I was raped or not. Things are so boggled. I just know I can't take much more of these flashbacks. The only delima is, "How to ask for help." What to do? Is it stupid, after all these years to ask for help now? A lot of times I feel as though it was my fault. I pray we both figure out the problem and work it out before it effects more.

July 28, 2000
7:40 pm
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yes tez.. ah.. life sucks..
or atleast its doing right now! šŸ™ ..
i havent shaved, i'm dirty, i just shifted to a new place, its all a mess. the roomate is an AH...
Someone just passed outside, and i felt, "they're gonna make fun of me". This is what destroys my social interaction. Realy...
if i hear someone laughing, the first thing that comes to my mind is that they're laughing at me. Even if i was just going on cycle and they were strangers. later i would try to rationalize that they dont even know me, they dont give a damn about me, but it doesnt work as yet. I just think they're laughing at me, talking about me, making fun of me... ah! šŸ™
i'm hungry too, i got so much work to do! I dont like to work because it takes me away from my own self. I've seen ppl who are so obsessed about their work, they lose touch with themselves. just like drinking or watching tv. numbing ur problems. i just hate work, always procastinating. i wonder what i'll do in my career! maybe it'll get better with time, but right now, its really bad. i dont have that much work to do, probably lesses than what everyone else has, but it seems so much to me, cause i dont even want to do that!.. sorry about my rants..
tez, u're 58 right now, right? how long do u think its going to take to get rid of the emotional memories u said (or dealing with them i mean)?
how did the meditation and bhuddhism help if you still havent got rid of the emotional memories that u might not know about something .. ? i think i have the same thing as u said, fear of not knowing the cause of things, but wen i'm in a good mood, sometimes i dont care about anything (could this be a "i'm better that you" thing? .. šŸ™‚ ..hehe). but its better to be honest (this statement could be another "i'm better than you", in a more subtle way. It doesnt seem to end. šŸ™‚ .. etc.

July 28, 2000
11:00 pm
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Guest-guest.
You asked, " how did the meditation and bhuddhism help if you still havent got rid of the emotional memories that u might not know about something .. ?" I'm not sure that I understand what your asking. So... I will write what I think you are asking in my own words. OK?

I think that you are asking me this: " If you still have emotional memories, what use is meditation? If you can't get rid of your emotional memories, is it because you don't know how to do so? Is this the reason that you assume that emotional memories are permanent?"

In answer to my interpretation of your question, firstly, I do know a couple of ways to get rid of emotional memories. The first way is to undergo unethical brain surgery and have a lesion made in my amygdala. The result of this would be that I would fear nothing and would probably not notice an oncoming bus until it was too late. Rats who have had such surgery, walk up to cats. Their life span is severely shortened.:-) It is obvious that such surgery is undesirable in humans or any other species. The second way is much more drastic: Mr 9 mm inserted in the mouth. Who knows what happens after that? Some NDErs say life after suicide is horrific. I would not consider that option!

Secondly, whilst getting rid of emotional memories is practically impossible, we can learn to deal effectively with their arousal and even take their complex emotional triggers to 'extinction'. But given sufficient stimulus such triggers can be easily resurrected to their former strengths and even made much stronger.

Thirdly dealing effectively with the recall of emotional memories into our fear arousal system involves learning to self nurture effectively. Meditation is just one very powerful way of self nurture. There are many less powerful but more easily practiced ways.

For the foreseeable future, for all practical purposes, you can take my word that our emotional memories are permanent. What is not permanent is their effects and their recall. This is what therapy can do; i.e. it can teach us how to deal with both the effects of and lessen the likelihood of recall of emotional memories.

As far as the "better than, worse than" scenario, I find that all comparisons are futile. What matters is what works for you and what doesn't. You are on your particular journey through the maze of life. You are walking your unique walk. You will undoubtedly find some things helpful and will adopt them as your own. Other things you will discard. If you turn within for the causes of your pain and see AHs as nothing other than people in pain like you who trigger off painful emotional memories in you, you won't go too far wrong. I feel very confident that by the time your 58, you will probably have achieved far more serenity than I. But who cares about making that comparison. Its the 'game' of life that's important. Given the 'cards' that your have been given, play it as best as you can. Some have better and some have worse 'hands'.

July 28, 2000
11:10 pm
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Dimet.

I hope Guest-guest and I don't obscure your posting of 25-Jul-00 to Cici with our long responses.

I also hope Cici gets to notice your posting. She has obviously struck a chord in your psyche with this thread.

Where are you Cici? I hope your OK?

July 29, 2000
2:34 am
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How did ya'll get so freakin smart!
I can't even figure out geometry- Let alone Quantum Physics. I like reading ya'lls insights.

July 29, 2000
12:03 pm
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dimet, all

so do I. Sorry for just listening in - I don't really find much to say these days. Just a hello to all of you šŸ™‚

July 29, 2000
4:36 pm
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ok thanks tez.. yup..
i think i'm deeply co-depedent and lots of stupid emotional memories and their recall happen in me. fear of people, being too concious around ppl. gonna get into therapy when i can afford it. in 8 months maybe. till then, i hope i live and also pass out of education so i can begin earning money.

July 31, 2000
7:34 am
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Guest,
youa reon the right track.
When you have that reaction to people laughing at you, just keep saying to yourself all those rational statements.
"it is not me theya re laughing at, that is just my Social phobia talking"

it doesn't seem towork at first, but when you keep doing it and you start to spend more of your time thinking those rationsal statements, they DO start to work.

it is just a case of creating a new pathway in your mind, and like starting a new track in fresh deep snow, he more times youwalk it the more easy it is to navigate it.

I do the same with my anxiety and slowly it starts to work, you will get better and better at recognising when it is your anxiety speaking rather than logic.

So keep at it, there are no magic answers EXCEPT doing that, doing what youa re doing andchallenging those negative thoughts and WANTING happiness are to my mind the only way.

Try your best to let go of the past pain, it does nothing for you keep it there, look at it and learn from it sure, but you don't need to keep "feeling" it just to keep it there if you knwo what i mean.

now you are always saying that life sucks! and yes I guess for you right now it does, so what are you gonna do about it?
I'll tell you what I think you should do!
You should accept that right now, it isn't the best it could be, but determine yourself that YOU will do everything you can to allow yourself to receptive for when the good things come.
YOu need to look after yourself, eat well, dress, shower each day, shave or grow a beard but make it a positive thing, not a " I can't be bothered " thing.
After all, you can still do all this thinking stuff while you eat or wash can't you.
All those things give your mind the message that you arestarting to value yourself.

Spend time thinking positive alternatives to your negative thoughts, don't worryif they seems baloney at first - that always happens, just like anything it takes practice.

SO build on the good work you are already doing, the way that you have started to challenge your negative thoughts is REALLY good, well done.
Use that as a foundation and take it further - you should be starting to see results of this way of thinking really soon, so keep up with the positive thinking and challanging those negatives.

You don't have to go into denial about anything, that is not what I mean, it is just about where you GROUND yourself. Live in the logical, positive place - you will soon feel at home there, and only VISIT the dark side at times when you can't help it, but always come home to the logical, positive thoughts - they will soon feel like home to you.
Peace
Hazza

July 31, 2000
10:37 am
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U-turn. It still boils my blood. My sex life has been patchy at best, which is strange for me because I have in the past had an overly-active sex life. I don't know why. The desire just isn't there. I feel myself all scrunched up into my head. I feel frigid.

I lay in the bathtub last night. I like to do that, with my eyes closed, tipping my head back until the water covers almost all of my face except for my mouth. I breath, listening to the blood rushing through my ears. I wonder sometimes if I'm just passing time between points of pure sanity and complete inbalance.

I confuse my family and friends. I blow hot and cold. I am afraid of showering because closing the shower curtain frightens me. I open all my doors at night - closet, bathroom, hallway, because I'm afriad of what might be behind them. This is not sane behavior.

Sometimes I feel like someone is walking behind me. i can feel the breath on my ears, the warmth of proximity.

I was like this when I was little. Afraid to pass under open vents because I saw little spiders and glowing eyes in the dark. I did drugs for a while and that made me fearless. It made me forget my little paranoias that bug me and make me compelled to do strange rituals to ensure my safety.

Now that I'm sober, it's returning. I call it the python because it curls at the bottom of my spine and creeps up to suck at the back of my skull every now adn then. I feel it creeping up now. it's hungry again.

July 31, 2000
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poetic, beautiful, healing....

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