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To Mossrose
August 30, 2002
6:26 pm
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gingerleigh
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Hey Mossrose, I wanted to see if you would be willing to talk to me. Just a conversation between you and me. We've had some really uncomfortable exchanges, and yes, I've been hurt and confused by some of the things you've said. In your last post, you said that I had not been kind or appropriate when I was trying to help and offer support, and I feel like you attacked me for trying to help. That hurt, a lot. I really put a lot of care into trying to comfort, and you lashed back, I felt like I had offered some of my very best of myself, and you attacked it. That's why I hurt.

So I went back and reread what I wrote to you, and I really can't understand where you are coming from. Can you help me to understand? Can we talk about this? If you don't want to do this here, let me know and I'll post my email address.

August 30, 2002
6:33 pm
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mossrose
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They are doing all the things that SC warned us about, right? Shaming, blaming, guilting, martyring... these are gifts that they lay before you, let them sit and turn your attention inward. Maybe what they say has some basis in truth... you yourself have said that you are angry (of COURSE you're pissed, who wouldn't be?) so maybe in this healing process, you can also come to grips with your anger. You aren't alone in that, right? Lots of people have posted about anger, especially me. And nothing on this earth hurts me much more than hearing someone ELSE tell me that I'm an angry person and "need help". So what if it's true?!?!?! They have NO RIGHT to say that!!! *smile*

and then you go on to say you are confused about their loyalty to my ex.

This is stepping around what appears very strongly to me a support of their criticism of me causing the marriage break up and destruction in their lives from "my anger"

Listen, my mother would always put me down when i got angry at her for her mistreatment of me.
I was now allowed to express my feelings, especially not my anger.
I have a right to feel anger, it is also normal for someone who just got out of a bad marriage where i was experiencing some abuse and control to feel anger.
I

Im gonna damn well express my anger towards people who are shitting on me.

This was and is a very vulnerable post that i placed up there and i really felt that you posted without knowing my history within my marriage or my history of non support with my family in a way that further wounded me.
Telling me that i should consider counselling and that i should deal with my anger as being disproportionate or out of context is just plain damaging.

August 30, 2002
6:40 pm
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mossrose
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ok, im sorry Ginger, i think i need to calm down. Im really upset about all this. Its the first time i hear from my mother and family and they send me that letter.
Im so sick of the way they have treated me. It makes a person become defensive..
Im sorry.

August 30, 2002
6:56 pm
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gingerleigh
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I think there has been a misunderstanding somewhere.

I *am* saying that counseling is helpful. When I went through my divorce it was really helpful for me, and it's been helpful for a lot of people.

I *am* confused about your family's loyalty to your ex. It befuddles me how family could turn on you like that. I *don't* understand it. (I'm not blaming you for the demise of your marriage by saying that I don't understand your family's reaction.) I hope that in most families, if the daughter got divorced, even if she was *truly* awful, her parents would say he wasn't worth her time. That's what parents do. I'm truly sorry yours don't support you in that way.

Express your anger, by all means, towards the people who are mistreating you. However, I am not "shitting" on you, or criticizing you, or attacking you, or blaming you. From your post, it sounded like your family was heaping shame and guilt and blame on YOU, and you have a right to be angry about that. I was trying to point out what manipulations were coming across in your mom's email to you, not trying to say that you deserved any of that shame, blame or guilt.

I have been on these threads for 2 years now, and I've been following your posts for that long as well. I'm not entirely clear on everything that has happened to you, only what I've read since 2000. I remember you posting about being very ill with problems with your back (I think???) and that your mother wasn't very supportive then either. The housework still needed to be done, the kids still needed to be fed, and you didn't get help or support from anyone. Am I remembering this correctly? (If not, I'm sorry, but the original threads from that time were lost for me to go back and check my memory. Even my own original thread, my very first one, isn't there anymore.)

I never said that your anger was disproportionate. I think it's appropriate and understandable. However, I could give a rat's ass about your family right now. I care more about how the anger affects *you*, which is why I recommended dealing with the anger through counseling. You can't control your family, but you can help yourself through all this.

With that said, I know that you and I have had some uncomfortable exchanges. Can I explain something? When I post to you, I am never ever ever posting trying to hurt, be cruel, or make you feel ashamed or threatened or attacked. I am never criticizing you. The way that you and I communicate today may not synch up, and maybe that's just the way it is. Maybe if you and I knew each other in real life, we wouldn't see misunderstandings like this, verbally. I don't know. Mossrose, all I'm offering in my posts to you is a genuine concern for you. And, if for whatever reason I just get under your skin (maybe whatever sign you are doesn't dig Capricorns???), that's OK too. I'll lay out.

August 30, 2002
7:03 pm
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gingerleigh
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Thanks Mossrose. I really wish I could give you a hug and find the world's best nanny (maybe Blondie? Nah, she'd make them listen to big band favorites all day long *grin*) and send you off to an all expenses paid spa where you can sit in a mud bath with cucumbers over your eyes and a strapping young man named Hans to take care of your every need.

September 9, 2002
1:31 pm
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site coordinator
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I think it hurts to be called an "angry" person, or have people pointing to problems or issues, etc for *me*, because it feels like people are only caring about how my "anger/issues, etc" affects them, and not hearing or understanding about the "hurt" that is burning and stripping inside of me.

Does it feel like that Moss, or anyone else when someone calls you, "angry, etc?".

And I like this exchange of posts, because they are upfront, and though there is some "heat" here, they are within guidelines, and best of all... I think they show reflection and attempts at understanding, and gaining clarity, rather than defending and pouring gasoline on you know what.

But my bottom line on the anger issue is that I have learned, finally, Thank God! That my anger comes directly from my hurt, my issues. And I am gaining large control in defining what hurt is causing what anger. That's what's important. A war on an individual is futal. The war is within ourselves.

I'm trying to break those chains.

- Hugs!

September 9, 2002
11:56 pm
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mossrose
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SC, I have realized that my anger comes from years of hurt, grief, pain, fear..you name it. All of these feelings and wounds are huddling under one large umbrella emotion and yes, that is anger.
Now this i have now come to realize is my GREATEST teacher.
I am now doing some of my deepest work right now and my anger is the doorway in.
It is VERY important that i dont suppress or change the anger into something else because i know i should not be ashamed of my anger.
I do believe my anger has been my protector and friend but it is now time to say goodbye to an old friend but before i do there is an important transformation that needs to take place within me so that i am not left vulnerable without my dear friend.
I think you know what i mean.
Its all really quite incredible..
and your kind hugs are returned, bless you:)

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