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To INVISIBLE
January 31, 2009
9:38 pm
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_anonymous
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Invisible- Can ask you your opinion on something?

January 31, 2009
9:56 pm
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invizble
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Yeah, I figured you had that sort of feeling about getting involved. I saw the wall. I want you to know I wasn't trying to come on to you. Often I come off as too friendly because I am friendly and am not ashamed of it. But I only wanted you to feel more comfy and myself as well. I am not looking for romance, as you should be well aware. I am also very much a monogomist!!!Please know that. I only wanted to be friends.

You are strong for handling things the way you are. I admire your strength. It takes alot to stay away from people when you feel like you need someone. I tend to become a loner when I'm upset. I was alone for several months when K and I started talking. I guess I should've ignored her, but I let her in. I hadn't planned it, but she was very understanding and it did help me to talk to someone who understood.

Sorry to hear you're still in love with him. After the mess he's put you through, how you can still have feelings for him is amazing. I understand, though. We love who we love and its hard to turn it on and off like a faucet. You'll get over him. Back in the mid 80's I was real hurt by a girlfriend who stepped out on me and that pain was awful, and it took a while to get over her. I remember night after night going from anger to pain and back to anger. I, like you, didn't date for a long, long time afterwards and was content with being single. Years later, I met my ex.

I love horses. My family tree was traced a few years back and found that my ancestors bred horses for show and actually have a breed of horse named after them. Its of the Arabian breed. I found that fascinating along with other facts that were uncovered during the search. I didn't read anywhere that I came from a long line of Co-dependents but I wouldn't be surprised.

January 31, 2009
10:30 pm
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INVISIBLE- I never thought you were coming on to me. I know that you came to this site for the same reason I did and that was to find out about codpendency and getting the help that you need. You are a very kind personable person. I know that you were not looking for romance cause the reason why you came here was because of a woman you are romantically involved with.

Its true it is hard to stay away from people especially when you feel you are in need to be understood. Makes perfect sense to me. Thats where learning how to establish healthy boundaries come in. Before I used to be an all or nothing person. Now I am learning to be a balanced person. That I can have relationships without quick involvement. I learned to realize that people that want you to move in with them, have sex with them, get tied down with them right off the bat are not healthy and nothing good becomes of it. I used to think my husband was a good guy to. He gave me his house right off the bat. Then I paid 8 thousand dollars to pay it off then he wanted it back. I wish I would have ignored him as well.

After all of the hell that I allowed him to put me through it is beyond belief that I would still feel attached to him. I realize that this means that I am sick and need help. I am getting professional help so I can get healthy and on with my life. I am a hella better than I used to be and making progress.

My mom was an equestrian. She spent a lot of time and money getting me professional lessons when I was younger and buying horses. I would go riding with her and my dad on trails every weekend. They even sent me to horse back riding camps. It caused me to be bonded for life to a group of women that I went to school with and we have all been riding since the age of 13 and still do.

Arabians are the oldest smartest breed. Very beautiful horses.

January 31, 2009
10:56 pm
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I guess being raised with all women I feel very comfy talking to women. I have never felt insecure or strange in the slightest when talking to them. I get along with girls really well. I still have issues with all the drama, but I can deal with it. Its normal. I just have to remind myself women are strung together with emotional thread.

I hope you find your release from your ex. I hope that you find a way to remove him from your heart and that you can one day learn to love another. first, love yourself, and others will love you too.

January 31, 2009
11:27 pm
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INVIZIBLE- Yes you are a very approachable person. Being raised around women was an asset for you. I grew up with sisters. And mostly my mom and grandma. I had no idea how men ticked. Until I had my boys. Then I learned that men are born a certain way and have learned to accept it and understand it. My boys are team players and do what they can to promote each other. When they get angry they dont talk it over they punch it out. Then they sit down at the table, and break bread, joke around as if nothing ever happened.

I never thought this walk away from co-dependency would last so long. But I am determined to slay this dragon for once and for all. The ties to this man must be severed. Failure is not an option.

Any suggestions as to the best way to go about this?

January 31, 2009
11:52 pm
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invizble
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When I grew up, I used to pray for a brother (though my mother was way past child bearing age) but my friends who had brothers used to fight with them as I fought with my older sisters. I learned something valuable during that time of my childhood. Men fight, its over. I won, you won, lesson learned, lets go fishing.

With women its much different. Women (at least my sisters) could beat me up, wait for me to get up off the floor then beat me up again because they hadn't gotten over the anger. My advice to you would be to go fishing. Get away from what makes you angry or hurt.

I love my sisters tremendously but I keep my space. I learned not to put myself in a position to make them angry, because I didn't know what made them angry, so I kept my space. That would be my best advice. Keep your space from your ex. In time you will learn that he loved only himself and that you deserved to be loved by someone who cared for you and not just himself.

February 1, 2009
12:31 am
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INVISIBLE- You have a good understanding of human nature.

Your advice to keep my space is excellent. It well help keep me on the road towards untangeling myself. I will keep it in mind.

Its funny that you mentioned the part about him only loving himself. He recently wrote me a letter from prison admitting that the only person he thought of was himself.

I dont see how serving another term in prison will change that.

I just want to get out of this situation pain free.

February 1, 2009
12:52 am
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Is there a pain free escape? I think the break up of any meaningful relationship is painful regardless of CD or not. I mean, if you really love someone deeply, you can't just walk away and smile about it. It hurts. I think the biggest problem comes from within ourselves. magnifying our feelings and distorting the facts to see what we want to see. When we clear our heads of all the dreams and fiction, we see what was truly there all along. I think most of the pain comes from being angry with ourselves for allowing it to happen, and willfully at that.

February 1, 2009
1:04 am
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invizble
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I'm sorry, You wanted to get my opinion on something, and I skipped right over it.

What could I possibly offer you?
!0 ways to ruin your life in less than a year?
How about how to go broke and live to tell about it.

I will gladly give you my opinion. Its the last thing I own and you are welcome to it, my dear.

February 1, 2009
11:06 am
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INVIZIBLE-

Thank you for offering me your opinion.

Considering my situation do you think I should

1) IGNORE HIM
2) Write him a letter telling him what I really think. (I already did and he wrote a nasty one back, I ignored him for a month then he apologized).
3) Accept his apology, wait til he gets out of jail and give him a chance to redeem himself.

4) ????. You fill in the blanks.

The problem isnt understanding that this man is toxic. The problem is dealing with the pain of loosing him. I probably dont make much sense.

February 1, 2009
11:58 am
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invizble
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Destiny I think you already know the answer to your question.

February 1, 2009
4:19 pm
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INVIZIBLE- The only thing I can think of that I feel right about is to ignore him.

I have a feeling your situation will work out.

February 1, 2009
5:22 pm
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invizble
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Well, Destinystar,
I can't tell you what you need to do. I can say that he already knows how you feel, he has already had a chance to redeem himself and you need to be happy.

I am coming to terms with my own issues each day. I know I will work them out, but, like you, it is painful. You are not alone in your pain. I am exactly where you are.

Don't feel so alone.

February 1, 2009
7:43 pm
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INVIZIBLE- Thank you for your support and input. I appreciate it.

Its weird. Its like the majority of the time I am OK. Basically I am back to normal. Its a miracle. Even though we are not together. He hasnt left me. He is still in jail and writes to me as if everything is OK.

I hear so many people here that leave their someone, breakup with them and then start freaking out and getting depressed when they find out that they dont ever hear from the person again or that they meet someone and go on with their life. I am in that category. I wrote a letter and put it all out there. All the things I couldnt tolerate. Then I freaked out thinking he wouldnt write back. But he did a nasty, insulting letter then I felt angry. Couldnt focus on anything. I didnt write back but stayed up night after night obsessing about it. Then he writes a letter apologizing.

Feels like I am addicted. Then I go through withdrawals that last forever and the only thing that takes the pain away is him. I fully understand what is happening, yet I have no control over how my brain reacts to it.

So, I am going to a psychiatrist about it like the second week in Feb. I am afraid that he'll just say oh you need to take medication. Probably wont listen to a damn word I say. Doesnt seem to matter what people tell me it doesnt change the way I FEEL. As far as replacing him with someone else that doesnt work either cause I am numb.

Since I know you are dealing with the same type of person I wonder if you are going through the same thing.

February 1, 2009
8:18 pm
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invizble
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Yes. A psyciatrist is not going to solve your problem. Sorry if this is not the popular advice the members here want to give, but its my personal opinion. Counselling, yes. A psyciatrist will want to medicate you. Watch and see. If I'm wrong, please tell me. A psycologist might be more appropriate for these type of issues. First off, let me say I hate doctors. No personal attack intended, but I have diagnosed myself correctly 5 to 1 over most doctors. They make guesses and they assume, or they'll run tests til you're broke, they'll suck your insurance dry, then tell you they can no longer treat you...etc. They are worthless.

I am in the exact same boat you are in. I am having trouble with the same feelings you are. I know whatt will cure mine. When I get enough. When she comes back and opens a bottle. That'll do it for me.

K is not the type that demeans me or screams or is anything but sweet. My issues with her are slightly different. She just does things that tell me she doesn't care about me. Its those things that make me wonder if she actually cares for me.

Your ex is alot different from K, so its hard to say we need the same advice, but I think we are both addicted to that person.

I am totally different when I am with her or talking to her than I am when she's not here or on the phone. That I know is true. I miss her terribly. She doesn't seem to miss me as much, which bothers me, so I plan to take it real slow and apprehensively toward the future. I am making no plans for marriage nor am I going to make plans for anything further towards commitment unless I know without a doubt that she is what I want in a person and that we both love eachother equally.

I am not in love with her potential. Just as she is not in love with mine. But, bear in mind that at this time, i have nothing to offer (money, property, credit, job, nothing) except love and care. I could say that she is in love with my potential. My concern is that she truly cares for me as much as I do her. She is a good person. I see goodness all through her. I know she can provide me with comfort and I will her as well, but I want to be certain before I move forward any more.

February 1, 2009
9:06 pm
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INVISIBLE- Something that caught my attention in your post was in the 3rd paragraph you say "she just does things that tells me she doesnt care about me". Then, in the last paragraph you say "My concern is that she truly cares for me as much as I do her".

You say you miss her terribly and
she doesnt seem to miss you much.

Right now you are what I would call ambivalent.

Please do not trust what she says only what she does and how it makes you feel.

What I really hear you say is that you dont feel cared about and missed by her.

Please trust your feelings on this one. Why do you feel that way? Cause with alcoholics its all about them. If she misses you it will be when she needs you but what about when you miss her? You say she doesnt care? Your absolutly right cause alcoholics only care about themselves. Even if she is in rehab and not drinking (not that you know of) she is still an alcoholic. It takes an alcoholic ages before their brain heals and they can even begin to start rational, logical thinking.

What do you mean you dont have anything to offer? The fact that you are a hard working man with a good solid background, and great values speaks volumes. Sorry, but material posessions do not make a man . Nor does it make a man a good person.

A healthy woman will love you for your strengths not for your weaknesses.

Phone calls and absence from someone is not the same as reality as when they are actually there.

In my situation I am 100% better with out him. The thought of me going back around him will be a major set back. He misses me more than I miss him. But in the caring department he is really missing his mark.

February 1, 2009
9:40 pm
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INVISIBLE- I found a website called LIVESTRONG.COM I thought it would be perfect for you. Read it and let me know what you think. I liked it. I think it speaks to the situation you are in with your girlfriend and might give you the strength that you need.

February 1, 2009
10:06 pm
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I am quite ambivalent concerning her. She sends mixed signals. I don't have a choice. She does and says things that say I love you and I believe its true. Yet, she also does and says things that say, "oh, you again..."
Its not that I can't decide whether or not I love her or have the feelings I have for her, its her actions and statments. its the ambiguous things she does and says that make me wonder. In many ways she is narcistic. Sometimes its all about her. Yet, other times, she is thinking only of others including me. This is quite confusing to me and causes me to sit back and wonder WTF?

I understand that she is where she is for her own recovery. That doesn't bother me. I understand that and even want that for her. I want her to take all the time she needs to get healthy. I don't care if I don't get to talk to her as long as she is getting help. I miss her but her recovery is more important than whether I can talk to her or not.

Its little things she does that raise my concern as to whether she is concerned only for herself. But she turns right around and does something totally opposite. She seems to be unselfish, does things for me, and others, but then says or does something raising doubt in my opinions. I get these thoughts and want to tell her,"Look, you are there not only FOR yourself, but BECAUSE of yourself, and it doesn't bother you that the I have to endure this as well." I guess I don't express my feelings to her as much as I should, but I don't want to seem selfish at a time when she is trying to work on her. There's plenty of time for me.

I know alcoholism is a selfish desease. I know alcohlics are selfish in their sickness. I don't believe all alcoholics are selfish people. I know a hard core alcoholic who would give you the shirt off his back. (He would be drunk anyway and couldn't feel the cold), but he'd give you anything you need. He's a wonderful guy! He's just a hard drinker. I once told him I plan on moving in a month. When that day came, I called 10 people who were lined up to help me move. Nobody came. They all dodged the phone or just couldn't do it, or forgot that was today, or some other excuse. I had reminded them all just days before the move. I only told him that one time a month prior. I opened the door to move the first piece of furniture by myself and he was standing there, saying, "hey aren't you moving today?" THATS A FRIEND!!!! I have never forgotten that and never will. He's just that kind of person. Loves to be there when needed.

I believe alcoholics tend to seem selfish to others because they continue to drink regardless of the outcome. But, in fact it hurts them as much or more than others.

Maybe I'm just being too demanding at a time when I should be more understanding. I always try and reverse the situation to see if my actions are wrong, and I don't really know how I'd feel if I was in a place like that to heal myself. I might be just as consumed with all that is going on there as she is.

I don't want her to take her focus off her recovery. I just wish she knew that I'm struggling too. I haven't said anything yet. But I'm close to it.

February 1, 2009
10:09 pm
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seems to be more for physical health, rather than emotionsl health. Did I go to the wrong site?

February 2, 2009
1:24 am
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I start my new job tomorrow, wish me luck. It'll be in oriention to start with, then training throughout the week. Hopefully sometme next week I actually start the commute.

(Yuck!)

I'm both excited and aprehensive. Sorta scared it might be the job from hell. You never know. I've been at the top of the food chain, so I'm afraid I will keep comparing it to other good jobs, but who knows, this could be the best job ever!

I'm going to stay positive!

February 2, 2009
9:01 am
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INVISIBLE- Yes you got the wrong site. I will get a better address for it when I get home from school.

What you are experiencing with your GF is called the push pull effect. With one hand they motion for you to come closer with the other hand they push you away. It causes nothing but crazy making.

I will post later. Let me know how the first day of your job goes

February 2, 2009
11:19 am
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February 2, 2009
11:00 pm
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invizble
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Destinystar-
Hey! Hope you're day is great! Mine is ok so far. Sitting in a motel in Chattanooga.

I read most of website. I've been busy, but did get the chance to glance over it. It seems to apply to many of my issues. thanks for the link!

I have a question. Many of the traits/symptoms I read seem like pretty normal traits. ie:
What "irrational" thinking leads to an inability to detach?
*If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt, suffering, problems and troubles. *When they are in "trouble," how can you ignore their "pleas" for help? It seems cruel and inhuman.
And there are others that seem pretty rational to me, as well, in certain situations. I mean, I'm not denying that many traits are unhealthy, but some seem to be pretty normal. What parent in the world doesn't feel pain when their child is hurting? What spouse wouldn't help their spouse if they asked for help? I'm trying to apply the traits that match with my feelings toward K.

Some of these make me feel just like I did when I read "Co-Dependent no more". It makes me feel like the author is trying to place any reader in the position to feel involved, to entice the reader to become more interested and part of the subject. What I'm trying to say is, If I wrote a book saying "you too could be psychotic", and use examples like, Do you ever get upset? Yelling at someone when talking would suffice? Well, yes we all have yelled at one point or another and yes it is a symptom of psychosis, but it doesn't mean everyone who yells or gets upset is psychotic. eg: All people tan when in the sun. Suntanning causes skin cancer. Do all people suffer from skin cancer?

I know I seem like a doubting Thomas, but I just don't believe that all the examples the author gives is related to only the subject matter, and could be perfectly normal.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that I am overly attached. But what if life is grand from this point on without detachment? What does it hurt for two people to be attached to one another no matter how strongly? As long as its mutual. Thats what I'm concerning myself with now. Is it mutual?

I am a true believer in treating those as you wish to be treated. If I am good to someone, and show them affection, and I get less affection than I'm giving, it doesn't last long before I begin to back off the affection, but if the affection is returned, I feel that is great. I don't have a problem. My rule is this :
(and I have stuck to it in all situations with all people so far, and it works)

(1) treat those as you wish to be treated. ( The golden rule, and the most important Commandment of God)
Sometimes people don't get the point, so...

-----if that doesn't work go to rule #2-----

(2) Treat those as they treat you.

----if that doesn't work go to rule #3-----

(3) Treat those how they "deserve" to be treated.

I usually don't have to make it to the 3rd rule, but when I do, they usually change their attitude.

Those are the rules I live by.

Lets test it.
Woman has abusive husband. She treats him with respect and kindness, but he continues to treat her badly. Rule #2 comes into affect. She sends his BS right back to him. Many men will realize their wives aren't putting up with their crap, and if they want to continue to eat and get sex, they wise up. There are those few who just can't pull their heads out of their asses far enough to see the light, so rule #3 is imposed. Wife sends his ass packing back to Mama or even jail. That is enough to wake him up and its usually too late, but wife is happy just the same. No more abuse.

February 3, 2009
11:24 am
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Inviz,

Good luck on your new job!!!! I've been reading your posts and silently cheering for you. It is so touching to see a man that is concerned for his lady. You seem so sweet and she is lucky to have you in her corner. Reading your words about alcoholics has helped me to realise that I have put the disease in front and sometimes failed to see that there is a person behind the self-destructuve actions. Thank you for sharing like you have here.

I did see that you said you thought she was narcissistic at times, and at times not. Maybe its her disease that makes her seem that way. At times her disease is overriding the true HER?

I read that book codependent no more and it helped me to see that although its human nature to want to help each other, there are some people who just can't be helped. Until they want to. Being the kind of person that helps people is not a bad thing to aspire to, unless it interferes with helping yourself or slows down your progress. You will have some healing of your own to do even with her trying to rehab. It doesn't get better overnight, Inviz.

I agree the author did seem a little intent on proving everyone is codependent. You are so right - you could build a case for anything, if you tried hard enough.

I just wanted to encourage you. You seem so nice. You just keep moving forward!!

February 3, 2009
2:13 pm
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INVIZIBLE- There is alot of information out there. We just have take what applies and leave what doesnt.

Relationships are about feelings. And the feelings you have had towards this woman and the relationship have led you to post here. To find the answers.

I am happy to hear that you are out and about, alive and well. Thats important.

Getting back to your question. This is my opinion. When it comes to your children legally and morally they are your responsiblity. You have legal authority and responsiblity to your children. You are legally and morally held responsible for them. They are not an option they are an obligation. When it comes to your spouse again you have entered into a legal contract with them and according to the law some things concerning them are not an option.

"K" is not a child. She is a full grown adult that is legally and morally responsible for her decision to drink. She is also not your spouse which does not make you legally responsible for her either.

The pain and suffering that alcoholics experience is all do to their decision to drink. The people that come along and want to make their life more comfortable or to help them avoid the pain of their destructive choice is what is known as an enabler.

Due to the alcoholics bad choices they have a lot of wreakage to deal with. It is up to them to clean up their own mess.

You wonder if things are mutual with you and "K". Smart man. They're not and you know it. And I have a feeling that you are trying to get to the point of accepting this fact.

You have wonderful rules, rules that speak volumes for the kind of stand up man you are. A man who is well grounded. But....... Alcoholics dont play by rules.

I am very concerned that the situation you are in.

You cannot even begin to rebuild a relationship until she has completed her rehab program. Then you can look her over again.

You deserve the best. Only the best.

Please let me know how the job is going. You sound good already. smile

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