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To Cjazz from Plz~
March 7, 2006
1:15 pm
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Hi! I just read your post to Jewel's thread, "Need to quit drinking once and for all", and I was moved to tears by your story. Your story gives so much hope, and just goes to show that it is NEVER too late to turn things around.

I would love to ask you (sheepishly) to comment on my recent thread, "I sent him this email today". When I wrote that to my bf, he had been on about a 5-day binge (Mardi Gras), and I was tired of tippy toeing around his drinking. So, as you can see, I let him have it with both barrels blazing:(

I guess I would love to know (from you) if someone had written that to you (when you were still in denial), if it would have made ANY difference. I am now feeling badly for being so harsh and judgmental. And I'd just love an opinion from someone like you who has walked in HIS shoes. Please be honest and straight-forward with me, as I am really trying to figure out the right thing to do. I love him, but he's blowing it with me. And I don't know what else to do.

Help please? Thanks!!!

Love, plz~

March 7, 2006
6:05 pm
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Thank you for the kind words Plz. It's been a hard lesson for me to learn what I have learned but I would not have it any other way. It's been totally worth the pain for me to go through this. I'm SOoooooooooo much better off and I feel so alive again. I will look at your string and comment on it.
Cjazz

March 7, 2006
6:25 pm
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Plz, I read the thread you wrote but not all the replys.
That was one of the most powerful messages I've ever read. How I wish my ex mate would have put it to me that way. Instead she told me she didn't know if she was in love with me and didn't know if she could ever be in love with me again. This was AFTER she got involved with another man. I decided to stop all my addictions without her help.

I think you said what needed to be said, whether he hears you or not is up to him. The thing that woke me up was when my ex mate started going out with this new guy, I told her I was going to be a different person. She kept me thinking I was doing the right thing and her mixed messages kept telling me I had a chance with her. All the time she was setting herself up so when the time was good for her she would tell me to get lost. I learned the truth for myself because she would not tell me the truth.
I decided that it had nothing to do with her, I needed to change for myself.
He will have to realize that he needs to change not for you but for himself. NOTHING you do or say will make any difference at this point. Like you said, it's up to him.
I felt like I was losing everything when she left me. I felt like I was left with two choices when I knew what was really going on. I could go through this breakup and continue to drink. Or I could go through it and come away as with more knowledge than I dreamed of. For me it was a no brainer. I knew what the alcohol had cost me, not just with her, but with my whole life. Looking back now is so refreshing because I can see my progress, my friends can see it, and I know in my heart I am on my way to knowing my full potential. I love myself and all my great talents. I've NEVER been able to believe that about myself before and now I do.
I hope you know also that what you do and say to him does help whether he shows it or not. Whether he will take your advice is yet to be seen.
I do with my ex mate would have told me stuff like that but she never did.
I think that was very brave of you and I admire the fact that you love him enough to tell him.
Good luck my friend, I hope we talk again, Cjazz

March 7, 2006
6:25 pm
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Plz, I read the thread you wrote but not all the replys.
That was one of the most powerful messages I've ever read. How I wish my ex mate would have put it to me that way. Instead she told me she didn't know if she was in love with me and didn't know if she could ever be in love with me again. This was AFTER she got involved with another man. I decided to stop all my addictions without her help.

I think you said what needed to be said, whether he hears you or not is up to him. The thing that woke me up was when my ex mate started going out with this new guy, I told her I was going to be a different person. She kept me thinking I was doing the right thing and her mixed messages kept telling me I had a chance with her. All the time she was setting herself up so when the time was good for her she would tell me to get lost. I learned the truth for myself because she would not tell me the truth.
I decided that it had nothing to do with her, I needed to change for myself.
He will have to realize that he needs to change not for you but for himself. NOTHING you do or say will make any difference at this point. Like you said, it's up to him.
I felt like I was losing everything when she left me. I felt like I was left with two choices when I knew what was really going on. I could go through this breakup and continue to drink. Or I could go through it and come away as with more knowledge than I dreamed of. For me it was a no brainer. I knew what the alcohol had cost me, not just with her, but with my whole life. Looking back now is so refreshing because I can see my progress, my friends can see it, and I know in my heart I am on my way to knowing my full potential. I love myself and all my great talents. I've NEVER been able to believe that about myself before and now I do.
I hope you know also that what you do and say to him does help whether he shows it or not. Whether he will take your advice is yet to be seen.
I do with my ex mate would have told me stuff like that but she never did.
I think that was very brave of you and I admire the fact that you love him enough to tell him.
Good luck my friend, I hope we talk again, Cjazz

March 7, 2006
10:26 pm
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Cjazz, thank you so very much for taking the time to read that novel of an email, but it was really important for me to hear your reaction. I must say that I am very pleased, and somewhat relieved, that you were so kind in your comments to me. They mean so much!

Like I said earlier, I was very touched by your story, and the message of HOPE that you give by telling it. You deserve a huge round of applause for what you have done for yourself. And the lessons that you have learned and are now using to impart that wisdom to others who may be struggling with an addiction or those who love someone who is. You have much to give to someone (in your future), and I will pray that you will find that special someone who can appreciate where you've been, and love you for the rest of your days. I am sorry that your ex abandoned you the way that she did, but I can tell that you are stronger for it. You are quite the inspiration!

I would love to know more about how you managed to turn things around for yourself. Did you feel like you had no other choice (hit your own personal bottom), or did you just get sick of it all? I have had this on again, off again relationship with this man for almost 3 years, and it's been quite the ride. I have NEVER (before now) spelled it out to him like I did in that email, so I know he felt like I hit him with a 2x4. I have *gently* approached him before about my concerns about his drinking/partying, etc., and he would somehow cut me off, or change the subject, or make some joke to distract from any kind of serious conversation. I also had only recently reconciled with him (after 5 months of no contact). The reason we broke up is because I was trying to discuss (face to face) this exact problem, and he ended up getting very angry, told me that was his own personal business (none of mine), and then things escalated into him verbally abusing me. Called me things I had to look up in the dictionary:) *ha* Seriously, I had never been treated that way before, and it totally threw me for a loop. Told him I wasn't gonna put up with that kind of behavior, and decided to get on with it. Well, recently he came back telling me how "empty" he had been the months we were apart, and how much he still loved me.

So here we are. I was married (unhappily) for 18 years previous to this relationship, so I know what it takes to make a good one, and I know that communication is key. So is emotional intimacy, and he just keeps that wall up. Won't let anybody in. I am not the only one who sees his self-destruction, but I am the only one in his life who cares enough to tell him. So I gave it my best shot. If you read any further down in my other post, you'll see that he emailed me back. Wasn't nice:( And on top of that, he thinks I owe him an apology and told me to stop being a snob (because I did not respond to his email back to me). So then I started feeling bad that I even said anything. However, I know (in my heart) that I cannot go forward anywhere with this man in a relationship if he remains in denial. It will do nothing but bring me down, and I have too much to lose.

Anyway, thanks again soooooooooo much for taking the time to help me out. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it all, and you are helping me to do that!

Keep up the great work, Cjazz! The best if yet to come for you, my friend!

Love, plz~

March 8, 2006
9:05 am
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Plz, I am so impressed that you are willing to help this man. That shows true love on your part. You know what's going on with him and you have told him the truth and then stepped away for yourself. That's a healthy thing for you to do.
You said you wanted to know how I turned things around for myself. I didn't hit rock bottom like some people do. When my mate decided to get interested in someone else I took a good look at myself and asked, why would she want to be with me? Look at how I have treated her and treated myself. I had lost interest in everything good for myself. No self esteem, I love interest in my talents, lost interest in trying to communicate, lost interest in running, working out and taking care of my body. I feel like she abandon me in my greatest need, BUT, I don't know if anything else would have worked for me. I guess I can look at it like that was my rock bottom, when she left. She wanted me to be friends with her but I can not bring myself to be there for her right now. I am still hurting thinking about never being close to her again.
I finally came to the conclusion that my life was worth more than wasting it on the addictions that have been with me for so long. I knew in my heart that I was not to far gone and that I had the power to turn my life around. I feel like my time is now to make the best of my life. I'm not going to get younger and I sure so not want to be dealing with this 10 years from now, or even 10 weeks for that matter... I feel so blessed that God has made me aware of what I need to do to take care of myself. Addictions are not part of that plan either.
Since the addictions stopped I was left with this incredible fear and I am still dealing with it. I'm beginning to look at the fear as not something to be afraid of(although I still am right now), but it's a message. Something that is sending signals to me to figure out where the fear comes from. What drives this fear and why does it seem to be such a part of my life. That fear is what I have medicated off and on with my addictions. Now that I am aware of all of that I can build a plan to address it and start my life again. The addictions will not allow that to happen.
Your man is in denial and until he will let down his walls there is nothing you can do. You mentioned that when you all seperated that he came back feeling empty without you. That may be the only thing that will get him to look at himself. If you continue to be there for him he may use that as his excuse to keep doing what he's doing. My ex mate never did let me have it like you did to him. She only mentioned it a few times and never did go into any detail about how it was ruining my life. To me everthing was ok, I could get away with anything with this woman and she would not complain. I'm sure she was dying inside but I never knew the extent of her pain over me. When I say she abandon me I didn't mean that in a complete sense. She was there for me but she was also involved with another man and I could not deal with that part of her life at the time, I still can not get past it right now but in time I will accept it and be friends with her. I would still like to work things our with her. She's going to miss the best part of me. I will be that person I know I can be now, loving, compassionate, loyal, I see all kinds of good traits in myself. I just wish I could share them with her.
You are doing the right thing Plz, you have absolutly nothing to feel guilty about. You are trying to help someone who ovbiously does not realize he needs help. He doesn't accept his responiblity in this and his anger is in reality about himselfm not you. Even though he calls you names and is verbally abusive to you means to me that he is actually feeling that way about himself and only directing at you. It's to painful for him to look at himself. I NEVER wanted to go there and look inside myelf to figure out why I was letting the addictions control me. Now that I have I see that it's the ONLY way to solve the problems. The addictions will cover them for a while but they will never be solved until the addictions stop. Only then can a person see the clear picture and begin to heal.
I hope this helps Plz, I feel for you and I am praying for you. You seem so loving, compassionate and strong. Make the right desicsions for yourself, you do not have to fix him. Only he can do that. I hope he can turn his life around and that the two of you can make it happen. Life is more fun when you share it with someone.
Cjazz

March 8, 2006
9:27 am
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Plz, I read all the threads on the I sent him an email thread.
It's obvious to me that this guy doesn't want to take the responiblity to change his behavior. He is comfortable with what he's doing. I understand you Plz. You did the right thing sending him the email and telling him the truth. You were so loving in doing that. Yes, it was harsh but you didn't call him names, he called you an asshole, he made fun of the way you dress. What does that indicate, not that he admits he has a problem, it indicates that he is using that so he doesn't have to accept what you said. He got deffensive like everyone else said in your thread. It's to clear Plz, you know it and so does everyone else. When he came back to you saying he felt empty inside with out you it was because he needs you to make him feel good about himself. He can't so that on his own and that's one reason he keeps drinking. I know the pattern all to well. If only he could stand in my shoes right now and look back where I am looking. He would lose his fear and want to go in my direction. I can not even begin to explain to peolpe how dedicated I am to solving my problems without the use of substances. There are no other ways to do it. Tell him I said that if you want to.
Are you still talking to him? How have things progressed since you and I started talking? I'm thinking about you Plz and praying for you.

March 8, 2006
11:32 am
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Cjazz, I'm so glad you get me! *ha* Seriously, you will never know how much your validation means to me, especially since you have walked the exact road that he is on. You offer me hope with your words, that people really can change, IF THEY DECIDE TO! And I realize that is the key. It really is all up to him. I just feel so badly for him, because he's only doing what he knows to do. He's been living this SAME way since his teenage years, and I truly believe he KNOWS I was speaking truth to him, yet it probably hurts to much to hear it and have to try to do something about it!

He has a best friend that he grew up with who lives the same way. Both 40, both never been married, no kids, both just declared bankruptcy, both drink every night, so they hang out together in the evenings/weekends and commiserate together. Neither one has a pot to pee in, yet they borrow from each other if necessary to support their bad habits. So in *his* world, this is normal, and *I* am the one who expects too much! I am the one who doesn't understand. I am the one who just needs to relax and let him do whatever he wants to do no matter how much he is killing himself. It is just too painful much for me to sit idly by and watch. I can see where he is headed and I refuse to go with him!

You are right about him needing me to make him feel good about himself. He actually TOLD me that before, and it scared me, because I realized when he said it how unhealthy and needy that made him. I've always been strong (I have 3 boys and have HAD to step up and be tough when necessary). Their dad was pretty much an absent dad, so I shouldered all of that responsibility as well. I find myself telling him some of the same things I have told my boys thru the years, and I don't want to be his mother.

Again, I am just amazed at your determination and resolve to go forward, learning from your mistakes, yet not letting them cripple you. You have so much awaiting you around the corner, and I can tell that you are looking forward to what each new day brings. That, my friend, is TRULY LIVING! Do you realize how lucky you really are? That you finally "got it" BEFORE it was too late?

Thank you for praying for me and D. I am a Christian (he is not), and I know that is really the biggest obstacle for us. But the God I serve IS ABLE, He is BIG, and there is nothing He cannot do. It is all in His hands! I will pray for you as well, that you can get to the root of your fear. What a privilege for me!

I have not heard from him since the Monday email when he told me to quit being a snob. I know he is hurting, and the codependent part of me wants to hug him and make it it all better. But I know I can't. You have been a God-send to me! I will keep you updated as this saga unfolds. I'm curious, how long have you been on this site? I find it interesting that God's timing is always perfect! And He knew that I needed to hear what YOU had to say.

If you have only just arrived on this site, I think you will find some wonderful people here that will encourage you, support you, and listen to you when you just need to vent it all out. I hope you will continue to share here, because you have so much to offer in helping others. And in return, you will be helped as well!

Take care! Love, plz~

March 9, 2006
1:45 am
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Plz,
I want to thank you so much for directing me to this thread. Cjazz, you are just the person to tell us from "his" point of view how you feel. And this has all been so 'enlightening' for me. I know I have been a good person and done the best that I could for M but he has made his choices and has an addiction that has a hold on him right now and the only person who can get through that hole is him....so in the mean time..i have to let him go.. and bow out.. and release myself of the responsibility for caring for a 47 year old man who has made some bad choices. He is the only one that can help himself and is choosing to continue to do what he wants in spite of it hurting me...and I must not continue to feel responsible or guilty if he ends up out in the cold. He is a grown man and I have stood by his side for 8 years.. I need help myself and have run out of patience or should I say.. hope.. I give my life back to myself..and will live it to where it is in my own best interest, even if it means hurting somebody who is hurting me...
Thanks both plz and cjazz for your letters which are giving me the courage to move forward...

March 9, 2006
9:44 am
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To Plz & thedogsmom, thank you for the support and kind words for me. I can see you are both struggling with all of this. It is good for me to knw because I never knew how much my ex mate struggled. She never did express her feelings that well and she never did nag me or talk much about my addictions to me. I admire the way you both have told your mates what they need to do and you have exposed thier addictions to them. Believe me, from an insiders point of view I can tell you honestly, I would have preferred to be nagged about my problem. My ex mate told me that if I wanted to change it would be up to me, she didn't want to nag me. I took that as she didn't really care what I did. SO, in regards to the nagging which many people think when you tell them they have a problem, DO IT. Nag them, you don't have to be obnoxious about it. I think Plz did the right thing in sending that email to her man. That showed tremendous love and support. It may not get the message across but it will at least let him know how she feels.
He is in denial, that's typical for a person who is comfortable with their addictions.
For me, it was like I was living in a coma. Everything seemed like it was dull, nothing exciting, routine. UNTIL she met someone else. Instead of thinking of why she would leave me for another man like that, I looked at myself and asked, "Why would she stay with a man like me?" That question to myself hit home. It awakened me to the reality that I had been totally disconnected from myself as well as my mate. Here I was, another failed relationship, what was I going to do now????
I went into a panic, I lost 22 pounds, no sleep, fatigue was setting in, lost some time from work. My life had finally came full circle for me and I had to look deep inside and ask myself, "Is this the way you want your life to be?" I looked back on the years I had been like that. No, I was not the drunk many people picture. I am a successful man, same job for 32 years, I am a talanted drummer in a C/W band, I have taken care of my body over the years, except for the substance abuse, I think the fact that I have taken care of my body pretty much saved me physically from the harm of the alcohol. I drank alone, at home through the week. I neglected my mate, only seeing her on Saturday or Sunday afternoons. I neglected my friends and I neglected myself. All this time I was longing to love someone, to love myself. I've always hated myself because of what I had become. I felt like I could not break out of the situation I was in. I was trapped and I thought my life was as normal as it was going to get.
What a tragic thing to happen when my mate left me, BUT, I had to ask myself, could anything else have awakened me to what I know now? I don't know, all I know now is that I am free of my addictions and I am finally starting to love myself the way God intended all of us to do.
Sometimes I still with my mate would be able to see the new me. I wish we could have another chance together but the reality of it is that she is with someone else so I must accept that and move on. I am not in the crisis I was in anymore. That's because I have learned self love and acceptance.
The men you are dealing with can not accept themselves, they do not like themselves. If they say they do then they are only decivieng themselves. A person with alcoholic problems is covering up something to painful for them to deal with.
I have not figured out what it was I was hiding from but I will.
My goal in life now is to learn who I am, accept myself, love myself and when I get to that point I will find a mate and love her with all my heart and soul. That my friends is something I am proud to say and it gives me so much hope that I still have a bright future, another chance to have what I have wanted all along. Love, happiness, someone to share my life with, someone to share their life with me as well. I don't care about money, fame, just finding love and peace in this fantastic journey of life.
I hope I have helped in some tiny way, it helps me to know I can help people. If I can talk about something related to this and it helps you keep those cards and letters coming. I will be happy to talk anytime,
Cjazz

March 9, 2006
5:18 pm
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To thedogsmom, I read your thread, 40 reasons. I had no idea it was so bad. I'm so sorry to hear that. I was not like that at all so I don't know if I can look at things from his point of view. He sounds like my older brotther and the way he used to be. I would say he needs more than just your help. I would also say that you MUST concentrate on yourself and do what you have to do. There is no way you can nag him or talk to him and get him to understand the severity of his addiction. Read the thread about what addicts do. It's very insightful. It's sad for me to talk to you about it, I almost feel inadiquate after reading what you said he did. Thank God I never did stuff like that but I guess the neglect was just as bad in some ways.
Please take care of yourself and do not let this control you into thinking you have to fix him. Fix yourself, be good to yourself, take the steps you need in order to get healthy.

March 10, 2006
12:02 am
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Cjazz

thanks for your input especially to plz..as reading your thoughts on her letter helped me as I sent the same letter to my guy.. I think that you are qualified to give your point of view though.. He really is NO monster as I just posted again on the 40 reasons thread.. Really we get along very well and are always so nice to each other at home. I wrote all of the terrible things I could think of just to make myself mad enough to actually break up with him.(as if his addiction and denial about it aren't enough.) I think the problem really is I don't nag enough.. I'm a big fan of peace and don't like to confront or fight...so I just ignore and pretend things are fine... then I find out about money missing...or find evidence of drugs and I BLOW up and then...I feel bad.. and he feels bad...and I want to make things right again...so I forgive him and he makes promises he cant keep and ..there we go again... until the next deception .... Maybe you are right that no nagging or talking to him will get him to understand...cause I have tried about everything and nothing seems to be working...Guess that's what denial and addiction are all about..huh? they won't stop until "THEY" feel they have a problem. Think I'll try finding that thread about what addicts do....

Now... about you!. I tried to find more of your story but only found your advice and stuff you wrote here and on plz's post.. What I can say is that I'm sorry that you feel that you wrecked your relationship and that you let somebody that you love get away. I wish she could give you another chance cause it sounds like you really did see the light and are ready to make some changes that could keep your relationship strong. Do you think it is too late for you two? I love that you had the mind to ask yourself the right question about "why she should stay with you" instead of "why did she go to him?" .
You looked to yourself instead of placing blame elsewhere and came up with some answers that will make you a better man for that next lucky woman of yours. GOOD LUCK.. I always have been a groupie at heart:).

thedogsmom

March 10, 2006
10:28 am
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thedogsmom, thank you for your support. It helps me to talk to you all. That is very reassuing to me how you said he is no monster. I feel like I was in some ways because of my neglect and the things I did. I guess the reality of it was that she stayed around for years so I was doing something good, not always bad.
My story is probably to long to get into on here. It all seems so complicated.
Will she ever come back to me? I doubt it. She is involved with another man I can't imagine she would want to be with me again, she's the one who left. She did try to keep me around even when she was sleeping with the guy. She cut off all emotional feeings from me and set boundries for me when she realized we might be seen in public holding hands and showing affection towards one another. It hurt me deeply when she did that and I knew then she was doing this to set things up with him. Still, she insisted that I was her best friend, we were family, and we were connected. I bet you if I called her right now she would say the same things. I even told her once that her new mate should be her best friend, not me. I sure have been thinking about calling her lately but I know she can still hurt me so I don't.
I work with her and her new man so it gets very difficult sometimes when I see them together.
We never know what the future holds so I can't say that she and I will never have anything again. I do not plan on waiting for them to get out of their honeymoon though. Peolpe keep telling me things like, he was going through a divorce, she was trying to get over you. They are both wounded people and now they are telling each other they are in love with one another. Can it last? Who knows, I want to believe this is their rebound realtionship but that is not healthy to do that.
She is not healthy for me to be around right now so until I get strong enough with myself I can not contact her. The whole affair has been going on since December. They were telling each other they loved each other two weeks after they met.
So, my main focus here is to take care of myself, continue my self awareness about my addictions and be who I really am. I am not the alcoholic, negleting, self centered person I was six months ago.
I've learned so much about myself and about life. And about how I want mine to be.
If you truely love your man and I think you do, you need to take care of yourself. When you do that, he will want it too. Whether he can accept it is another story. Sometimes when people change they look different to people who are used to knowing them the old way and they do not want to accept it. Does that make sense?
I look at my ex mate different but I can still see the positive things I love about her.
So, you're a groupie at heart??? There are a lot of them in the club I play in. Most of my friends ask me how I can be playing in a bar after I have stopped drinking. Believe me, it inspires me more to stay away from it. I see the same people every weekend coming in there wasting their lives drinking. It' sad but it reassures me I will never be that way again. I do not preach to them, I only talk and try to accept them as they are. Playing in there has helped me realize my talent and I have made some good friends. I stay away from the drunks and the people who I know are dangerous. There are a lot of nice, healthy people in there.
Thank you for talking, Cjazz

March 10, 2006
10:58 am
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(((((((Cjazz and thedogsmom))))))) Here are your hugs for the day:) I've got a busy weekend, but will check in as I can to see how you guys are doing. Sometimes I only have time to pop in and read, and it drives me crazy really, cause I have sooooooo much to say:) *ha*

Still no contact with my bf since last weekend. It's been good for me to clear my head.

TDM, I'm curious what your guy's response to *our* email was? Did he say anything or is he ignoring it?

Cjazz, are you playing this weekend? I think that is so cool (I'm a groupie too)! lol

You guys take care, love yourselves, and I'll catch up when I have a spare minute! Sometimes being busy, busy, busy is the best distraction!!!

Love, plz~

March 10, 2006
5:29 pm
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Cjazz
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Hi Plz, I've missed you the past few threads. I hope you are doing well. Yes, I am playing this weekend, I play every Friday and Saturday nights. I wish you all could come out and listen. It's always fun to see friends out there. No contact is good sometimes. It can be so hard though, time seems to go so slow and the anxiety can drive you crazy. At least that's what happens to me. I wanted to call my ex mate so much today. I didn't though. If I still feel this was next week I will call her. I'm afraid to though because I know she still has the power to hurt me.
TDM, how are you doing today? I hope you are ok. Did you talk to your mate? How did it go? I am pulling for you very much. What a blessing it would be if he would see what he's doing to himself and to your relationship with him. I sure wish I would have seen it before it was to late. Perhaps it will take that to get him to see but I hope not.
I'm feeling better now, it was early when I wrote this morning and I was not feeling well at all. A friend of mine is going to stop by and bring me something to eat. That's very nice of her and it helps take my mind off things. Playing tonight will be a needed distraction also. I love to play, it really relieves a lot of stress for me, not to mention it's just down right fun!!!
Tomorrow will be a better day, I know it will. Take care my friends, I'm glad we talk on here, Cjazz

March 10, 2006
6:55 pm
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thedogsmom
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****plz****Thanks for the hug today.
I think we have very similar situations and feelings about it and we think somewhat alike, but it sounds like our men are very different people. Your guy reacted very badly to the letter you wrote and was very defensive just like some of the responders told you an addict in denial would react. He misdirected his anger and lashed out and attacked you. WRONG! HURTFUL! and very IMMATURE! He is verbally abusive and boy --You are right! What an "IN-GRATE!".. After he irresponsibly declared bankrupcy and you loaned him thousands of dollars how can he have the NERVE to treat you like that! I just don't get these guys. You bailed him out again...and he 'bit' you!
I'm glad you realized by the postings and 'tried' not to take it too personally realizing that it was just his injured feelings that caused him to want to find fault with you. Maybe he is not at the right place in his life to actually see what you are trying to tell him, but I still think you did the right thing in sending it in it's full form. It was a VERY powerful tough love letter and like CJazz says..it was therapeutical for you to put those feelings you have been living (and dying) with and spell it out for him..exactly as you see it. It may not wake him up and change him, and maybe all he heard was "you are an alcoholic with no money and future and if you don't shape up you are going to lose me"......I still agree with CJazz that you had to tell him exactly how you feel. Cuz even if you really are strong enough to move on without him at least you can feel good to yourself about trying to spell it out for him and giving him that last wake-up call chance to turn his life around. I thought it did show ALOT of love and strength and willingness on your part to stand by his side and help him and that it also showed that you do see the "good-dog" (HA_HA) in him [just joking Cjazz- I don't really think all men are dogs---my nickname actually was taken from my days of sorrow on the petloss website and then when I desperately found this site staying up late and crying one night...I thought the name fitting for this site too----smile] and that's why you are willing and hoping to 'help' him.. I don't know though if I could take it IF somebody was also so verbally mean and abusive ON TOP of the other NONSENSE and stand by their side. But then again..maybe you would draw the line or couldn't take somebody ordering and running up credit cards in your name and stealing money from your account either. Which would I rather have? My mate telling me I have pasty white ankles in February....or a few thousand dollars stolen from my bank acount? hmmmmm...sounds like you are the 'winner' ?here..ha ha..
guess thats the problem with codependants we all have TERRIBLE TOLERANCE BOUNDARIES and Take Far too much 'abuse' from our mates.

Okay.. well you asked for the response I got from your (my pledgerized) letter:). You got it.--First he ignored it for a few days. Then yesterday he emailed me at work this reply. " Honey, I read your e-mail today and thought "she's right". What is it that causes me to self-destruct? That is just what it is. Guess I need to figure that out first.
Thanks, talk to you soon".. Love M

When I got home from work LATE at 9PM was off at 500 but in no hurry to go home to him- so stayed late on the computer, I saw that he had fixed a nice dinner of ribs, potato-salad, brussell-sprouts and peach cobbler (all my favorite-he doesn't even like peach cobbler).. I took a shower and went to my room and listened to music and went to bed without eating while he watched TV in the living room. I felt a little sorry for him cause I know he did it for me.. but then how many times did I cook dinner for him and he never even came home to eat?? staying out with his loser friends? with me not knowing where he was and when he'd be home?
so I just had to remind myself of this not to feel "too" guilty...

anyway..so there SAME problem (addiction) same road to nowhere but two different men and two different reactions to that letter. My guy however has this history of being Mr. Nice guy but doing sneaky, hurtful things nevertheless. But, honestly, while I was exited he didn't mention my pasty white legs (ok--I know it's enough now-ha I'll stop bringing that sore spot up)... I really must say...I'm STILL not too hopefull that he "saw the light" ..as a matter of fact.. I said something about his meth use this morning and he denied using.....so you see...He is either in denial, or if he has stopped using...then I guess he is just a jerk without an addiction.. either way...looks like a lose-lose situation... anyhow... I thought this would be short and I gotta log off for now....but thanks for the hug...and back at you two!..
Cjazz... I have lots more to read about you and say to you too....so I'll check back later.. Have fun tonight and stay strong...
TDG

March 10, 2006
7:21 pm
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codyrn
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All of these post make me so sad....because my situation is so similar.
My husband is at his first counseling appt since his meth binge in 1993...and he is there becasue he owes a 6 figure...almost income to the irs in unpaid employee taxes dating back 3 years which I found out about 2 months ago. We almost got a divorce...becasue of the sneeky behavior that pre-empted me finding out about the irs money.

I am just so sad ...and after reading all these posts wonder if I am just in such a denial stage that it will take miracle for me to see what is really going on.

Oh my....it's just so real again for me......

March 10, 2006
7:26 pm
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codyrn
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I don't think he is using...again...altho he does drink...so do I ...but his behavior is so selfish ...his lack of attention to detail around the house,...with money...with responsiblities... he must have 30 projects around here that he has not finished that date back for years...literally......

I am just so scared and feel so vulnerable and am trying to let God move in this situation and not run interference so to speak on God's behalf...but it is so ver scarey for me.

His drug of choice was Meth adn I know that it has clouded his mind....for ... FOREVER becasue that is the power of Meth....it is satan in the form of white powder ... I know this...

I'm just scared...

March 16, 2006
9:40 pm
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tomgirl
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you are so right it is satan an it makes me angry in my spirit .My daughters dad is on meth destroying himself an it hurts becauses I've never seen him like this.Drinkin is another poison I am prayin for you this night .It is more pain to see you'r love one do that God is bigger an he can get delivernce from it with prayer . God bless may God give you strength an disernment take care Gods with you an him.

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