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To Bel - From Zinnie
January 30, 2004
1:32 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Bel,

If you don't mind me asking what kind of pain are you having?

Love,

Z.

January 30, 2004
4:36 pm
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bel
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Hi Zinnie thanks for making this thread for us to talk without bothering anyone else.

I am having pain in my left side under my rib cage and it seems to travel around to my back. At times the pain is very bad and other times it is bearable. The doctor keeps telling me its muscle pain but I dont think so its pain on upper left side next to my breast and under rib cage and upper back. I am going on a month and a half with this pain and sometimes I think I may have it for life since so far all tests have been coming back negative. Hopefully with the new tests I will be taking something will show up. Do I want something to show up? Yes I do then that way I can accept whatever it is and move on from there.

Bel

January 30, 2004
5:16 pm
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tooscared
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I'm sorry that you aren't feeling well Bel. I know you have been dealing with some of this for a long time and I am glad that you are getting some help. You have been missed. I saw where you had posted a couple of times on the politics thread but I just thought maybe you were busy. I guess you were - but busy with doctors. Take care and please keep us informed. Love, TS

January 30, 2004
8:03 pm
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bel
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Hi TS thanks for missing me. πŸ™‚

I missed you too, glad your dad is doing better. IM staying with my mom since my 4 sisters all went to Hawaii for a vacation. Mom had a fall and I had to half carry up and she has been in more pain now. Sisters come home tomorrow and IM glad I missed them too.
I have missed the coffee house and the fun times in there.

Take Care TS...
Bel πŸ™‚

January 31, 2004
1:25 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Bel,

I have missed you as well. Hi TS *smile*

Bel, I have a question if you don't mind. Have you had any surgeries on your internal organs, including a hysterectomy? Also, are you prone to scars?

Z.

January 31, 2004
4:14 am
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Hi Bel
Just had my shower sitting here decent typing this note to you. I am to some extent feeling your pain through the words you have expressed here - mystery pains can be awful because they astound conventional medicine. Doctors just love to see a great swelling so they can go fast track towards a cure. Confound them and they want you out of the surgery! I once had such a pain - cured myself eventually. Hot water bottle up my back and walked about with a hardbound book stuffed up behind my shoulder blades. Turned out to be refereed pain from a disk in the spine - that is after I told the doctor how I had found relief from the pain.
I was convinced the pain was in my front but no it originated from my back.

How are you today sweet pea? I have started my book as directed by her that has touchy teeth! So if you would like a preview I could post a few pages? Might help you think about MEEEE as is my ilk!

Do you know bel that I have always wanted to heal people - tried it once in a healing centre.
Placed my hands about the area of the pain - but failed miserable to relive the suffering. I think I was of the opinion that I had the power within me to heal - found out too late that this comes from the man upstairs. But I find he is working me like a man on strings these days - I want to go in one way he turns me about swinging one leg in the opposite direction. Gosh I get mad at times!

Placing my useless hands over your pain bel - hope he comes through in some way. LOL> Terry.

January 31, 2004
1:08 pm
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bel
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Hi Anam, Thank you so much for trying to heal my pain. Who knows it may work but as you stated the power would come from higher up but using you. πŸ™‚

I would love to preview your book I love to learn and read whenever I can.

You know Anam the doctor said as much to me about my pain seems to be moving from here to there and it does but I also know I have a chip in my back from a fall when I was younger so who knows what it is. I just hope something is found soon so I can think and feel about more pleasant things in life.

I have never had boiled bacon as you stated in the coffee house, wouldnt that take some of the good taste away or would it make it even more tasty?

Hey if I could I would go stand under your clock and wait for you to come pick me up and show me around the town.

Have a good day Anam and Take Care.

January 31, 2004
1:12 pm
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bel
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Hi Zinnie how are you today? good I hope as for me IM doing okay.

I have had a hysterectomy (blushing as this is private to me) I had to have it. I also had bladder surgery because it was damaged during the hysterectomy. I have had kidney surgery for kidney stones but thats about it. As for scars well when I was a child I had sores all over my body and had to get shots once a week for my blood, I really to this day dont know what the shots were or what condition I had but I did outgrow it. I bruise easy but dont know about scarring.

Bel

January 31, 2004
1:44 pm
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Zinnie
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O.K. Bel,

The reason I was asking is after one of my laparotomies (sp?), about three months later I started having this incredible pain, but it was on my left side right under my rib cage. I kept complaining, and they did sonno's, X-rays, NOTHING showed.

The pain finally got to be too bad, so they did an exploratory, which started out with a laprascope. They ended up having to go in because I had an adhesion from the uterous that attached itself to my rib cage. When they removed it, it was almost a foot long, and about two and a half inches thick. But, that was what was causing all the pain. They kept telling me they could not see anything, but the pain kept getting worse. I'm wondering if this could be the case with you?

I'm very prone to adhesions and scar tissue - we have found out the hard way.

Z.

p.s. - Anam... oh boy - from playing Dr. and faith healer to dentist - what will we do with you?

January 31, 2004
2:23 pm
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Anam Cara
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Bel - gone all shy about my book! If you promise me that you will read it on your own under the sheet as it were. And If Zinnie will let me prove the essential facts about her nashers. And Hoopla la la meets me at the health farm- and Ladeska shows a leg abooout this ear place.
and Kessie adores my art. - Firefly stings my ex on the nose. Tooscared spends more time talking to me. I may still say OMG can I really be sure you will keep it to your self?

Bel - Glad you feel a tad better - the chip on your spine? Who knows!
Smoked boi;led bacon is a must.

January 31, 2004
3:25 pm
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Hi Bel. I have a pain in the side of my back that has been growing steadily worse over the last two years. I can feel it when I inhale. But I notice that it goes away a few days into a vacation, and then after I come back to work, it slowly comes back. I think it might have something to do with how I sit at work. I'm not sure what your environment is like or if you go to a desk job, but could it be that maybe you're getting twisted up into a position that your muscles and organs just don't like? I tried massage to make things better, but it didn't really help. Only getting into a different schedule away from the desk really makes any difference at all for me.

I hope you feel better! You're such a sweetie.

January 31, 2004
10:20 pm
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bel
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Zinnie wow that is interesting but my surgeries were a long time ago but who knows? Glad you found out what was causing you pain.

Anam I promise to read under the sheets if I can and I won't tell anyone. Silly Man dont be all shy about you writing and sharing your book you should be so proud.

Ginger I was wondering if being overwight would cause me pain and well I have fibromilegia and wondered about that too.

Thank you all for your concerns.
Bel πŸ™‚

January 31, 2004
10:25 pm
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Zinnie
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I'm just wondering if you had an adhesion that has grown and attached itself. You might suggest that to the Dr. - let them know that you have heard of it happening.

I'm hoping it is something like that - and not anything serious.

The kicker for me was it hurt like hell, and they kept telling me "there is no reason for you to be in this much pain - are you sure you are not just wanting pain meds..." I HATE taking pain meds because I hate the feeling of not being in control of my faculties fully.

Please keep me posted... keeping you in prayer.

Z.

January 31, 2004
10:40 pm
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bel
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I will keep you posted Zinnie, right now IM waiting for my appt for upper GI Series, I had my blood work done yesterday for about the 20th time.

How was your saturday? My four sisters get home tonight from Hawaii and IM so happy mom and I missed them! Plus I go home tonight my cat bellamia is feeling abandoned and I can sleep in my own bed! I have been here with mom for the past week and while I love mom she can be very stressful at times. If I make coffee for her its to weak, if I do the dishes I didnt do them right, so and so and so on. Anyhow nice to know someone else is on tonight.

February 1, 2004
3:12 am
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Anam Cara
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To bel from Anam- For her eyes only!!

Sparrer's eye view

I was three years old when the Second World War was declared. My family lived in Stratford the East End of London. I was the youngest of three - my brother being 10 years older and my sister, twelve. Yes I was the baby of the family. I think my parents had given up the idea of ever having another child.
Life was very difficult for working class people in the 30's. When I arrived in the womb, it was something of a shock and disappointment to my parents. Mother took the usual things that women did in those days to terminate unwanted pregnancies. When I eventually arrived (despite doses of everything bad for me) - it was to a Mother who was to say the least - not very keen on my arrival. I remember my father saying many years later that mum never had a cot ready for me. The large bottom drawer of the chest was made into a tiny comfy bed. My dad said that he was somewhat surprised to see his latest baby staring with wide blue eyes at the light in the centre of the bedroom. He said that he felt very proud - I had really lots of blonde curly hair. At the age of four my father took me out on his coal round. Dad was a coal merchants hawker plying his trade around the streets of London by horse and cart shouting β€œcoals - best nuts!” He also shouted this out during his sleep sometimes in full cry! He made much fuss of me showed his baby son off to all his customers.
He loved his horses he never drove them too hard. They were always aware when the very last bag of coal had been delivered. They probably noticed something of relief in my Father's voice when he turned them towards home saying, β€œGet on then!”. they would spring to life (I can still hear the clatter of their metal shoes on the stone sets) Dad quickly gathered up the loose ribbons to gain control. The horses were stabled under the great Railway Arches of Stratford Station East London. The Shire horses looked altogether different when their harnesses were removed - I was always a little afraid of them yet my Father assured me they were just gentle giants.

My Dad was one of seven siblings - four boys - three girls. This number would suggest that we had a united family with many relations out there. But my immediate family seemed never interested in keeping in touch with any of them - other than the odd arrival - thus I know very little about this extensive family. It did not help perhaps when we moved far away into the country during the war years.
My Mother worked as an Orderly in Whipps Cross Hospital before the war- most of her conversation centred around the Ward Sister who stalked around with great authority. So much did my mother brainwash me towards the authority of a Ward Sister - that even today if I meet a lady of this rank, I find it difficult to get my words out! Such had been my Mother's influence.
Mother worked on the TB ward for two years. This was when TB was uncontrollable. It was just per chance that a new Sister asked her how long she had been working on this ward. She was shocked when Mother told her of the long period over which she had been so exposed to this disease. Yet her strength had carried her through. She put her job before any other concern. Coughs and colds even TB never stopped her getting to her ward. She was from that seed corn that made Great Britain great!
My Mother was a strong, sturdy woman. She was twelve years younger than my Father. One of four - 3 sisters and 1 brother. Her Father was a German Jew (surname Godwin). I don't recall a great deal about this man. He died very young leaving my grandmother (mothers side) desperate with four, young children to rear. Mum was not a demonstrative person I cannot remember her giving me a great deal of cuddly love - If I asked her for a squeeze she would pull me close - give me one hug then release me almost as quickly. Neither did she display great outward affection towards my Dad who I know would have enjoyed a little of this demonstrative sort of love. But - there you are - one cannot change the nature of things I guess! But my dad spent his whole life waiting for affection - yet he never had an affair as far as I know! Perhaps My mothers own mother - being very busy in the shop, with very little or no affection being shown towards her ( husband dead) - accounted for this un-loving affection in my mother? I always saw my Mother as a hard-working woman who never actually made the home a cosy place for us. I hope I haven't been to unkind or too harsh towards my mum - for I am sure she loved us all in her own way!

Her mother was a very capable women! She opened up a grocery store and successfully reared her four children without any assistance from anyone. In fact, this shop was to be the meeting place of my Mother and Father. He used to make paraffin deliveries there. This grandmother lived to a grand old age and I remember her very well. She was after all- the only grandparent left alive when I was born.
My grandfather was from real country stock - horseman through and through. He was a tyrant to my grandmother. But in his later life - having sowed his wild oats said dad "in many a field" - he and my gran - became very close. He would always be promptly home for Sunday lunch from the pub - which was a ritual meeting up place for him and his sons on Sunday morning. Big deal - came home for his dinner on time! My grandfather died in the arms of my Dad - still clinging to life - refusing to give it up. He passed away in a complete sweat. I recall my father giving a detailed description of this event. Go- Go peacefully into the night - but not my grandfather!

My grandmother was a very gentle kind lady (much like my sister Gwen) her only outing was a yearly visit to the Derby. With a large food family hamper on board - With the best horse in the yard - the gig was made ready. Off they trotted in grand style with a long fine whip cast under the horse’s belly - which no doubt helped it to pass their neighbours trap. This was no serious competition - just a pleasant rivalry. Who had the better cob on the day - that sort of thing. The annual event to the race track was the highlight of the year - my grandmother made the most of it. Father was especially fond of her - he was her last child - always a very poorly little sickly boy - seemed to catch everything going. He told me that he had never seen rain before he was six. His mother always took him inside the house at the very hint of a shower - yet he outlived all his siblings! It shook his religious convictions when his mother passed on. Both my grandparents are buried in Plashet Road Cemetery, Stratford - Jacob and Lydia -----.

Just A taste! Anam

February 1, 2004
11:39 am
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Bel,

Don't mean to jump in like a knowitall but just a thought for you....read about your pain on the coffeehouse and followed you guys here because I had an idea. Then to read that you have a history of kidney stones....that is so what it sounds like, given the location and the nature of the pain. I can say this because I have had kidney stones twice in the last three years. The location of the pain, the way it's right thru, front to back.....sounds exactly like you have a stone in there girl!

See, when you have a stone it can be dormant for some time. When it reaches a large enuff size the kidney becomes irritated by it and begins to spasm, or experience "renal colic." Hurts so bad you nearly cannot stand it (I actually had two diff nurses say their stones were worse than labor!! Pretty bad I guess!!) But then the colic can and will cease, until the stone settles just right or the kidney attempts to pass it thru the narrow openings to the ureters with the waste it eliminates. (Trying to be kind of tactful here.) But you know what I mean. Anyway then the sharp edges irritate the kidney again and it begins to spasm.

The good news is bel, if this should be the case, the way they helped me the first time was no surgery needed. There's a procedure called a lithotripsy, where you are under general anesthesia and laid on a table. The table has a plastic donut kind of thing in the middle with a cover over the "hole". There is warm water in that area, like a little kids' blowup pool. They position you over it so your kidney is centered above the water. Then is where I went to sleep although fighting to watch, figure this out because there's a big C shaped thing around you, like you are in the cup of the C. Lots of wires. Laying in water. Interesting. πŸ™‚ Anyway they use sound waves generated by the lithotripsy machine (the C thing) and the water distributes them so the stone is all broke up in little pieces right in your kidney. You then can get the damn thing out without passing out and the whole thing was like three hours from the time I walked in the hosp til I walked out. No biggie. Expensive as heck tho, people w/out insurance would have a big headache. It was right around $10,000 for that day for me. I'm serious. I couldn't believe it but it really was. Thank God for health ins!

Or maybe you will just pass it. It happens. My second time I did. But if you've had this pain for this duration, and it does turn out to be a stone, it is prob a big one.

Let me know how you turn out. I will be curious to see what they find. How did they find your stone before? Mine wasn't visible on ultrasound, but was found with a special x-ray using some dye put in with an IV. Then the xray picked it right up.

Anyhow, good luck bel! I'm hoping you feel better soon!

February 1, 2004
1:00 pm
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Zinnie
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Good thought SFB, my husband had them as well. Actually he has had a few in the last ten years, but last years was the worst.

I didn't think of it myself, guess because I have never had one so I don't know what to liken the pain too.

However, I know there was a nurse in the ER when my husband was there last year, she said "I have had five kids, including twins. One kidney stone. Take a set of twins anyday."

So, it must be bad.

Another food for thought.

Z.

February 1, 2004
2:39 pm
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Yeah they suck. I will never forget when I was all thru with the first one. I said to the nurse and my Mom how glad I was THAT was over! The nurse kind of smiled kindly and said, "dear, kidney stones are a recurring condition not a one time thing." I about cried!

No fun.

February 1, 2004
3:31 pm
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Zinnie
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I SFB - that is what has happened to my husband. He had his first one about ten years ago. For some strange reason, his always come about in September, right around his birthday. This last test they did, he has two more in his right kidney.

The last one he had last year, actually he had four. Three were really small, and one would not pass, the pain was getting worse and worse. They finally did surgery on him, and said it was close to 10mm in size, and had embedded itself into the wall of the ureter. He was in so much pain, I don't think I have ever felt so sorry for anyone in my life.

I hope you never have another one - that's for sure.

Z.

February 1, 2004
4:25 pm
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bel
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Wow Anam started to read your story but its kind of long and I have read it when all is quiet here so i will get back to you on it okay? It sounds so interesting already.

SFB and Zinnie I told the doctor I thought it was a kidney stone and she just laughed and said its to high for a stone and it would not hurt you for over a month and a half. You know I have suffered the pain already and I feel I know my body but nope she says that is not what it is thats its muscle pain. They found it last time with the dye going through my body but she wont give me that test, I did have a ct scan and she said that is one of the best tests to take and that nothing showed up. I am thinking of changing doctors soon.

I will keep you posted.

Bel

February 1, 2004
6:18 pm
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Hi Bel,

My husband suffered for close to two months, and it still would not pass which is what led to the surgery.

Definitely look into changing Dr.'s. She does not sound like she listens to you. As I said, that is what I love about our family Dr. If you have to talk to him for two hours, he will listen.

Z.

February 2, 2004
1:01 pm
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bel
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Hi Zinnie, well I still have my pain on my side but it seems like my whole body hurts lately. It feels like there is a vice grip aroun my waist and IM being squeezed so hard I can hardley catch my breath. My arms are sore, my back is sore or hurts I dont know what to think anymore. When I take a deep breath my body hurts, also when I cough or sneeze. So strange.....

How are you feeling Zinnie and are you still getting treatments?

February 2, 2004
1:05 pm
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Zinnie
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Bel! I'm really worrying for you. How soon before they do all of these tests? Have you called your Dr.?

I'm O.K. - just an upset stomach and a headache right now. Nothing much. Just popped some Advil for my headache and drinking a Coke which helps my stomach. Also, eating some toast, of course while resting up with the beautiful Miss Pee Wee.

I have no clue where the LOUD boy is. He got in trouble earlier, so he is hiding.

Love,

Zinnie

February 2, 2004
1:10 pm
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bel
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Anan I loved reading your story about (your family?) it made for good reading while I had my morning coffee and bagel. I love hearing about the cobble stones with the horse making the clackty clackty noises from their hoofs. How exciting it must have been for a 4 year old to accompany his father on his rounds selling his wares. Your mother, Grandmothers and Grandfathers all sound like good hard working people but I think in those days life was alot harder for people but they knew what hard work was.

I look forward to reading more if you care to share.

Bel

February 2, 2004
1:26 pm
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bel
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Zinnie I have gone back and forth to the doctor and I still dont have a diagnois or a clue as to what is wrong with me. IM still waiting for my appt. for upper GI Series so once I have that maybe they can find something I hope. IM supposed to have a knee replacement surgery in about three months (that is the waiting period) but dont want to have it if IM in pain already from something unknow. With the knee surgery I will be out of work for three months and wont be able to walk the first few weeks and will have a nurse come check on me once a day.

Zinnie I do have fibromylgia so I dont know if that is the cause of some of my pain, I did mention it to the doctor and she said Oh Yeah that could be it maybe! Strange.......

Well I dont want to sound like a complainer or moaner so I will talk about it more when I have some diagnois.

Thank you Zinnie IM glad your here to talk to with.

Bel

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