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Thinking out loud
May 1, 2002
2:11 pm
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Cici
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Retard. Retarded. What is that movie title/book title. Girl - Interrupted.

Don't you tell me I don't take responsibility for my shit. I do. I know I'm a fuck up, a waste of social space, right? A useless bag of flesh? I don't ask for anyone to validate me in my drug use. I just do it, and you can put that in your pipe and smoke it, huh?

You think I'm a burden to my family? They don't even know. I hide it well. And when it gets out of control, I just hide even more and they don't hear from me for days. Busy girl, writing solicitation letters for a fundraising event she chairs. Going to sit with a dying teenager on weekends. Working, going to school, got it all together no one know how it really is for you.

And I know, if they did, they would withdraw from me in horror. I'm wretched. Reading messages meant for other people I see the judgement I make of myself, the judgement that people make of me. Fuck up, that's what I am, right? Over educated. Overly analytical. Book smart, not street smart, though I lived out of my stupid car for a few months, I saw kids die, I've squatted outside a warehouse foaming at the mouth and vomitting blood, huffing nitrous to bring my temp down so I wouldn't have to go to the hospital.

Grab my hand, let's go to the hospital where I spent 3 years of my life in and out with weird illnesses, I'll get a brainscan and you can see the holes I punched in there, the gaping cavities in my brainmass. No wonder she smokes so much pot, said the doctor, her brain is almost entirely perforated.

Addiction is so seductive because when you're not pilled out, not stoned or high on something else, you feel like your inside are made of crushed glass, like you walk through a fucking sponge.

Now tell me that it's all in my head. I chose to eat pills that ate holes in my head, and I should make the personal decision to live in pain for the remaining 40 or so years I may have in order to satisfy that puritanical demand for sobriety.

Hell, my Dad's addicted to pain pills and I don't give a crap. Let him. He's old. He's dying. He can't get out of bed, he can't sleep. Give him some fucking relief, for chrissake, don't make him suffer because you think sobriety is necessary for a terminally ill person.

I can't wrap my mind around this drug thing. I've used. I know what does what to me. Why is pot illegal and alcohol is legal? Drug s are bad because they reduce the productivity of society, and increase healthcare costs. But doctors get paid to go on cruises by drugreps that cost a couple thousand dollars, that's your fucking high cost of healthcare. We pay doctors to pay drug companies to pay them off.

So if I smoke pot every day, how am I different from being on Wellbutrin, a drug that for me is hellish and mania-inducing, everyday?

http://www.newscientist.com/ne.....ns99992095

May 1, 2002
2:15 pm
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Cici
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What's the recidivism rate for rehab centers? 75%. 75% of drug user return to using either a new substance or their drug of choice. Why? rehab doesn't work? Doesn't address the real problem causing the addiction?

May 1, 2002
2:19 pm
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Cici
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Ah, well, I guess that little bit of coke my hubby got became more drugs. Friends who are nurses and medschool students can get liquid vicodin, Clonipin, xanax, valium, coke, this weekend there are grad parties and I know there will be coke everywhere, there always is, there has been for the last few weeks, but I always left and just got wasted trashed instead. The life of a college student. Weekend long drug/alcohol binges.

May 1, 2002
2:23 pm
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Molly
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Yo, Cici, take a toke and chill girl.
You won't find me fighting you, hell can't figure out why pot is illegal my self, controll issues. Your argument is legit, but won't co-sign your negativity. I think if the statistics were out there, the world would be shocked at the number of successful pot heads that are out there. Sure you might have a few holes in your head, but could have been the aspertane in your diet coke, no? common girlfriend, your almost at the end of school, the job market sucks, the economy sucks, don't wear it on your shoulders because you partied out for a while. Could have been what they did to you before you tried to self medicate.
Sometimes I get to thinking about going crazy, and ya know could be in a snap. Just a few chosen behaviors, and slam could go the door, and pop goes the lithium..... could shuffle for the rest of my life, people could file on my behalf for ssi, and maybe I could get a hospital at the beach. I wonder though if I could toss a really paranoid fit, to make them let me have my dog, he would be benificial to the other inmates, No ?
Love ya Cici---- just the way you are

May 1, 2002
2:45 pm
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Cici
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Thanks Moll, you're a doll (uh-oh - clanging! schizophrenia!)

My husband jokes that I'll either be like the medicated lady in those saturday night live skits with Cheri Oteri or I'll be like Ozzy Osbourne, prior addict now heavily medicated on lithium and whatnot. UGHN.

May 1, 2002
3:25 pm
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Molly
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This too shall pass, and it just shows how limited your husband imagination really is, har har har....

May 1, 2002
3:42 pm
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Holes, perforations, my god, girl. Good thing for the rest of us w/ your smarts. -- The thing is all your experience is valid and useful. Don't have to be a crack whore to know life. The street is just a part and the reason rehabs don't work is that they try to only say "don't do it." There's no depth -- there's 'stuck on stupid' & 'my best thinking got me here' when the perforation is exactly where the problem is. The heart perforation, the soul hole. Your wonderful (dja hear that) wonderful intellectual ability. Wish I could talk the talk the way you do altho w/ the clients I work with even what I do have is way too much mosta the time and it must be broken down and ground to get it to the level they will understand. But love and compassion and the empathic impulse they do understand. The reason rehabs don't work is we don't have the time and insurance won't pay and a lot of clients aren't willing to go with HEART SURGERY, of the meditational/spiritual variety. It plugs, healing hearts, one willingness at a time -- the trick is that the patient heals themselves. 🙂 Hang in there. I'm proud of your unabashed intellectualism. It's refreshing because it doesn't seem to embarrass you -- be comfortable with it. You are needed and your experience is valid. ((((hug)))))

May 2, 2002
9:02 am
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Pot isn't illegal in Holland (you can go into a coffee shop and buy legally over the counter, they have menus so you can choose what you want) and they have fewer problems with hard drugs than we have in the UK. Now they are 'de-criminalising' small amounts of pot in the UK but not making it legal. Maybe Blondie can explain the difference?

May 2, 2002
1:21 pm
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Cici
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I was musing on that issue with friends yesterday. One guy was a straight-up alcoholic, guzzling 8 beers in the hour and a half I was there and still, as far as I could tell, sober! He said, pot should be legal and alcohol should be illegal, if they're going to play favorites.

But I wonder. When you chose to use illicit substances you always think, am I a dirtbag? A scumbucket? A societal leech? NO. I do a helluva lot more than every sober person I know around here, especially with Hospice now.

But drugs are bad, mmmmm'kay?

May 2, 2002
2:20 pm
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Substances are only illicit because the government hasn't worked out how to tax them yet. They worked out how to tax alcohol so that's okay, but I think that more people die from alcohol abuse than drug abuse, don't they?

People who booze get very brave with their cars, aggressive and so on and then get into fights or kill people on the road. Not noticed anyone on pot doing this, o/d on pot and they go to sleep. Much less of a hazard to society.

And personally, I'd rather fight off the over-friendy guy on pot than the over-friendly guy on booze!

May 2, 2002
9:12 pm
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Why rehab for potsmokers? -- Dunno, $ for clinics and $ for drug company. Better taking a prozac or nexium a day than smoking 2-3 joints. Hell, go practice in Amsterdam, by has from the desk clerk at the hotel, a small crystal cake plate full, neat foil wrapped packaging. Good enuf place, diffrent colored foil. --- Smoked a lot of pot, never addicted. -- But for the other chemically addicted a major problem. May not be a gateway drug, but seems to be a gateway back to crack, etoh, or heroin for the recovered/ing. --- Legal, why not, Woody Harrelson was probably right when he said a couple years ago That mother's milk was a gateway drug, moreso than pot. I'd go w/ that. I'd even go w/ allowing the cig co.s to switch to hemp manufacturing and ban tobacco. Ban alcohol and grow hemp all over. Pot stores rather than liquor stores. --- Will it happen. No. Booze and cigs cause anxiety, anxiety causes frustration and frustration leads to hostility to "competition." Get mad enuf at u and it's good for the gnp. -- Go into banking, at the top, not counseling.

May 3, 2002
8:29 am
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damaged
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funny you named this topic, thinking out loud. At work we my co-working family, say bullshit about each other and then say OH just thinking out loud so it wouldn't be repeated and better yet IT WORKS!

Rehab has worked for me also, yes I gained many tools to live on the out side but the work doesn't stop at the door on the way out. I think the 90 meetings in 90 days is way to over rated. It is one day at a time!!! Yes I do go to AA and I sure as hell don't go because of lack of something better to do. I go because I need to see were I have been and hear were I am going if I don't say sober. I think I will go straight to hell. No really I don't make a good drunk! I also was lucky enought to go to a very good rehab!!!and it was for all kinds of addictions.

May 3, 2002
8:35 am
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The truth Rehab, worked because I want to be sober more than I want to be drunk. Plain and simple!!!

May 3, 2002
9:07 am
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& there ya go. It works if ya work it. Just as the soul heals if you wanna feel soul and fill soul holes. Rehabs should probably focus more on how to start filling the hole. Not everyone is going to have the gift that Bill wilson had -- mystical experience, transfiguration all in one lump sum, the lottery of the spirit came up w/ his number. It's a spirit thing and Blondie and damaged I am so pleased that your spirits work today. And it doesn't matter about location, but some are in less dangerous locations than others and sometimes the location is a function of where the workplace really is rather than a function of being away from tempatation and often it is just where the affordable buildinga are.

May 3, 2002
2:45 pm
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O< O, Blondie, thanks so much for sharing. One of my patients did that yday in group and had me crying halfway through, my tears met his. Sometimes there are those moments when someone gets it and you just know that goddess has touch the earth and you are touching the earth and the patient is touching th earth and the circuit is made and the energy shared and everything just goes white and green with the beauty of life and you realize that life isn't just here to please me, but if I live and stay awake that life will please me whatever comes. Thanks, dear Blondie.

May 7, 2002
3:22 pm
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Cici
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I've been away for a while. I graduated college last weekend! Interviewing for jobs all the time, I'm on my 5th interview this afternoon and have to stop and fill out more paperwork at another place because they want to hire me. But I know they can't because my driving record is shitty! I just paid a fine to have my license reinstated.

I dunno, Blondie. I know a lot of pot smokers, mainly because the town I live in is crawling with 'em. We have infamous pot in North Central Florida. Anyhow, all the smokers I know have jobs and go to work and pay taxes. I know a 55 year old guy they call "the dude" who owns and manages real estate all over town - apartment complexes that prey on students, ha ha. I know doctors, nurses, businessmen and business owners, professionals and day-laborers that smoke.

I always say, smoking pot doesn't make you unmotivated, it's an excuse to be unmotivated. If you want to do something bad enough, you'll do it and find some externalization to push off all your personal problems onto. I keep my house spic and span, in an OCD kind of way. You only know a floor is clean if you scrub it on your hands and knees. I learned to scrub floors like my Mom did in Vietnam, scrub and use a cloth and push the excess water like a human squeegee.

My Husband manages my manic episodes, he works 2 jobs right now, and is remodeling our house, on the weed as it were. Of course, here we differentiate the weed smokers. Like those who smoke the better weed, grown indoors with baseball park lighting, tend to be more productive than those who smoke outdoor crap-weed that's homegrown or from Mexico. That's what we say, anyways. So, I know a lot of motivated, successful people that smoke when they get home from work instead of drink.

Personally, I used to want to get higher and higher, but a bit ago something broke inside me and I had my gut rant and now, pot is all I want. I went to a graduation party with 4 kegs on saturday and stayed until 5am and drank approximately 1/4 of a beer, but I smoked a few bowls of the buddha, as it were.

I guess I should be stalled at the maturity level of a 19 year old, eh? I think nicotine is the gateway drug. Or alcohol. Smoking pot always made me happy and sleepy, while I could get wasted drunk and tend to take more drugs because my inhibitions were lowered. I don't know, I feel like I can't believe what the gov't tells me about drugs.

I read this transcript of a conversation between Nixon and Art Linkletter about the difference between weed and alcohol. It was hilarious. Nixon, funcitonal alcoholic that he was, actually says, "No one drinks to get drunk. They just drink to have fun. Now those druggies, they just look for the next high and want to get higher."

I agree that some people are more prone to abuse versus use. Me, I smoke cigarettes on and off. 6 months on, 1 year off, 3 months on, 4 months off, and never too many - never up to a pack a day at any point since I was 14. I tend to smoke when something intense happens, like a car accident or a death in the family, but then I just quit again. It's truely weird. Maybe the ecstasy ate hole in strange places in my brain! ha ha

May 7, 2002
5:31 pm
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Molly
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What every one has posted is what I believe to be the key to recovery. Each addict, each addiction, each person, due to their individuality is unique, the response to the substance, their will over the substance, as well as the substances every one is different. That is the hard part. Drives my sis nuts with my smoking some what like you cici,I can sit here and smoke all day long, and then go three days with out. She was the one who would never, and was 3 packs a day, she is celebrating 25 years with out on the 25 of this month. Pot is really strange medicine, some can function great, and lots do, but there are so many of those that Blondie speaks of, know them, see them, and they aren't hard to pick out. Etoh, well the numbers are there, and again, some can have the glass of wine others, have to have thier tequilla shots inbetween, and then get behind the wheel.
Its a gamble, are you one who can do it, or are you one to sink in the whole ? I see it with the adults that I worked with it really depends on how old they were when they started, as well as several other things, like motivation, accountability, parental relations, and GOALS. Heck I know a successful Real Estate guy too, swear every time I see him he is smoked out, and I think that or valium is how the heavy hitters can stand the stress, I can tell you that wine doesn't cut the tension, har har har.
Can't stand those poor folk that are into the crack, never saw anything robe a soul faster, and they are just way to darn mean for me. thank goodness Blondie you did your 8 ball, must have kept your senses about you, har har har Did I just do a promo for heroin, now that must be some really something else stuff, from what I have seen, just again like you said Blondie, blind sighted. Nothing but that matters any more, absolutely nothing.
E-- scares the hell out of me, to much street stuff, and not pharmacy grade, due to what blondie says, yep kids if your reading this, they use diseal fuel, jet fuel, glass, they will cut it with what ever, and not think twice. And with E its not the cutting its the temperature its cooked at, that will literally fry you. Just way to much wierd shit, that evokes some sort of feeling but then what, and its the then what that has always kept my nose clean. hell again growing up at the morg, if you didn't trust what a MD would give you you gonna grow up to trust a street dealer ? I would support legalized drugs 1000% if it meant we would get it off the streets, and out of the playgrounds. The kids way to young, 7-9 years old, how the hell can they get the chronic ????? Even my clients didn't know what that was when I asked them, my nephew was talking about it, and had to ask him, go figure. Sybil and I debated for years, pot vs booze---- how can you really justify either one of them ? Like masturbation I guess, he he
Substance use has been around since the beginning of time, even animals know which berries to eat to alter their norm, kids start young twirling to get dizzy. If we could all learn to balance, or use it for medication, and the children grew up and got jobs where they earned money, and didn't have to deal on the corner to support their new Nikes, or mom's habit, life would be he he he a day at the beach.

May 7, 2002
11:22 pm
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nikka
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Speaking of that, why not go there w/ me? -- Uncharacteristically mono-paragraphical post. I care too about it. Sorta that Neil Young "Needle and the Damage Done" thing w/ me. I smoke, about 1 pack a day. I've quit daily, but started late (24, nervous about grad school and smoked a lot of pot, guess pot was my gateway to cigs.) Now, I've just seen too much. Screw it all, at least for me and those I love.

Wine's nice. So's German beer. But I rarely drink over that past seven years. Just see too much damage and rarely use it myself. CiCi, pot does take the edge off, but different people react differently. And I can go sun myself or walk in the rain and find the buddha. OK. Legalize Pot, keep alcohol legal. Outlaw wars and lack of understanding and seize that assets of those who violate those rules. Why not. Seems sane to me. -- Crack is, Molly, the advent of hell on earth. Nothing quite so fast and unpredictable and I imagine for the same reason as ecstacy -- never know what that grey powder really is and why it's grey instead of white. Nasty. -- speaking of X, oddest thing, californian I think, a guru named Satyam Nadeen who used to be the X-emperor named Michael Clegg? Anyhow. Received enlightenment in a federal pen after Costa Rica extradited him or allowed fbi to kidnap him or some such thing. -- I've read two of his books and cannot figure if he's some sort of for real or just a shill trying to make easy money. -- Any input would be appreciated. Please don't go reading him if you haven't already, not just for the input anyhow.

May 8, 2002
12:14 pm
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Molly
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So, does his book in some what indicate that his bust was a set up, or that he was working for the goverment ? If that is the case, then I would say some of it was most likely true. Working with my clients most of them were over 40 it took some time seperating the fact from the fiction, however so much with respect to our systems I dicovered to be true. The best excuse to get out of a counseling session I ever had was a woman that said her P.O. had driven her to the clinic and was waiting for his BJ so he wouldn't put her back in for being dirty. I followed her out, and yep there he was!!!!!! that was a short one, but there are all kinds of stories out there.....

May 8, 2002
1:48 pm
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Cici
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I just read a long conspiracy-themed article that implicated guerilla Israeli groups for smuggling E into the country. I don't know what to think, ha ha.

Yeah, I know a lot of unmotivated people who smoke pot. Funny, one of my bridesmaids used to smoke pot all the time and she quit because she said she needed to get motivated, but 3 months later still has no job and watches TV all day. So there ya go.

Ecstasy is pretty evil. I had some flyin' times, but there were so many bad times I can't even count them. It was nasty - the nastiest stuff you can snort, it will make your nose bleed like instantly, or at least the next day, and it burns like the fires of hell! That's gotta tell ya something.

Drugs. Yuck. If I could do it again, I don't know. I appreciate my experiences because they made me who I am today. But then again, that's better than regret, right?

May 8, 2002
2:42 pm
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CiCi Never regret, keeps you in the past rather than in your life. But, the experience brings me right here, right now and today that is my comfort. So I revel in my experiences when I am open to seeing just what is me. --

Molly, his book indicates he did hard time -- don't think he did the informant thing, was sentenced to a few years, spent three I think. And he sees it as a blessing (incarceration) because he "got enlightened" there. Published by Hay House, know anything about them?

May 9, 2002
3:58 pm
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Oui, but I cannot munch because of my chronic stomach disease. In fact, there were many times when I was first diagnosed that it saved me from puking! I think that was when I really started smoking, 3 years ago when I was diagnosed with GERD, IBS, and idiopathic gastroparesis. My intern told me to keep smoking pot PRN because otherwise I would be a G-tube candidate. A surgical hole in my upper intestines to pump nutrition into every day. They also threatened me with TPN nutrition as well. But I smoked like a champ and kept solid food down enough to stablize my weight loss, though I'm still underweight.

I used pot therapeutically for that disease, but I self-medicate, too. I refused to be put on depakote or lithium or any anti-depressants, which was the recommendation the last time I visited a psychiatrist. I've been on a few, buspar, wellbutrin, celexa, sleeping pills ambien and sonata.

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