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The subject of my mother (RW)
January 28, 2008
9:24 am
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Randomwomen2
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well its not starting out well. I slept awful and all 3 kids are whinning today

January 28, 2008
11:28 am
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Anonymous
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(((Randowwoman2) I am so sorry...safe hugs to you:)

January 28, 2008
12:27 pm
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Randomwomen2
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thank you for the hugs sweetheart. It snowed last night and We rarely ever get snow here so im thinking about taking my kids outside to play for a little while.

January 28, 2008
12:31 pm
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Anonymous
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Enjoy the snow RW...We got alot of snow here, and now i remember why I loved being in the south so much, well at least in that respect...I just find it too cold and wet. Messy. I am glad your going out with them to play in it, they grow so fast and then thats it...enjoy that time you have! Maybe build a snowman!!!

January 28, 2008
1:10 pm
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Celtic1
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((((RW))))
Not much time. Just to let you know I'm thinking of you

Celtic

January 28, 2008
2:38 pm
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Randomwomen2
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thank you for the hugs. Last night was a really tough night for me

January 28, 2008
2:47 pm
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through_the_fire
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Checking in from work, RW

(((((((((RW))))))))))))

Just wanted to send you that.

Say whatever is so, and know you'll be accepted and supported.

Fire

January 28, 2008
3:13 pm
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Randomwomen2
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thank you fire I know that I will be supported here you guys have never failed me. Its amaing how a bad mother can effect your whole life how you view yourself the choices you make I mean everything.

January 28, 2008
5:00 pm
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Hello, RW, it's Brynnie! I haven't been here in ages. I'm so glad to see your post about your mother. I remember so many of the things you've said in the past....but this was new. I didn't realize that you've sort of been trying to have a relationship with her in the present.

I agree with some of the others' advice to curtail your relationship with her. Even if you are a saint and could forgive all the wrongs she did to you, the idea that you have to pretend, or not think about it, is absurd. You are not having any kind of relationship with a person who CAN relate honestly to others. She is still drinking and smoking pot? Any relationship you have is STILL with the addiction. She's not ABLE to comprehend her own accountability.

She complains to you now......like YOU are responsible for HER???

You are SO OK....you are SO NOT responsible for your mother. You can love her from a distance, but "toxic" people you need to keep away from.

This 26-yr-old mother of 3 that I know recently allowed her abusive mother back into her life briefly. Very shortly, her mother began using her again.....she told me she left their family "gathering" at Christmas because she was feeling sooo critical of her mother's every word and action she felt almost sick within herself.

It's really really important NOW to be our own good parent to ourselves....find the thngs you KNOW you can praise yourself for and do so, over and over. Give yourself credit.....don't let your inner thoughts beat yourself up.

You're OK, Random. Every time you open up and explain what happened you do so in a realistic and clear-headed way. I'm not saying you have to be emotion-less, but you ARE the one who sees clearly. Do what you know is the right thing for you NOW.

You're a really good person.

January 28, 2008
5:15 pm
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Anonymous
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Ditto, Brinnie! (((RW)))

January 28, 2008
5:56 pm
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Randomwomen2
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thank you sweetheart. We have a role reversal going on where I am the parent to my mother. She has started limiting the amount of time she spends on the phone with me. So I guess shes doing the distancing now. I dont give myself credit for anything. And listening to my inner thoughts is very dangerous for me to do. Thank you hunny. I actually got a card from my neighbor telling me how good of a neighbor I was Not my husband mind you just me. IT was very very sweet. we borrow things from each other everyday its really nice. I feel like I have been throwing myself a pity party but then again am I not worth one? I have kept so much in for so long that it was killing me. Hurting my relationships those still arnt better well all except for one. I never see my self talking to my mother about this but I can write a letter even if I never send it.

January 28, 2008
11:00 pm
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Randomwomen2
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Wow I really havent felt like myself today. My friend told me that it seems like I have tried not to feel anything today. I hadnt realy realized it but I think thats whats going on I feel numb from the brain down.

January 28, 2008
11:45 pm
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MsGuided
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Hi ((RW))

My mother isn't half as bad as yours but how she makes me feel is the important thing.
I came to a conclusion the other day that when I'm around her I'm miserable. Unhappy with the charade she plays. The dishonesty, the manipulations...Not going into the big long story, but most of my family make me feel very sad.
I thought, is this the way I want to be or do I want to let some joy in my life?

I used to be very happy when i was AWAY from them.
I'm always happy, or at least level, when they don't have influence on me.

They aren't going to change. I've done this dance with them, to heal, but they don't know the steps. We just aren't working together. My dance will upset the whole balance they created!

I don't want to feel this way anymore. Over 10 years when things started going bad again, and year after year there's another betrayal added to the list. The burden just gets bigger!

What about you? How much weight are you willing to carry? How much more of your emotional well being will you sacrifice?
I know YOU don't want to feel depressed. I read it over and over in many of your posts.

We have to let go of what makes us feel this way. The things that won't change and bring nothing but pain and more sorrow.

I have to let go of my family and get better before it's too late. Let go before I can't even function in other areas of my life that are important.

Just let her go RW. It doesn't make you a bad person. You gave it absolutely everything you could....give yourself a break, and be free.

January 29, 2008
12:40 am
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red blonde
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(((RW)))

January 29, 2008
10:30 am
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netsirk
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((((RW)))))
Hey RW how are you today? I wasn't able to get on this thread yesterday as it has stirred up a alot of things in me concerning my mom and I wasn't strong enough to get on here to check in. I am having such a hard time in my mind and my heart in dealing with my mother. It is so easy to just say stop talking to her, but it is never that easy. Oh well hopefully we can both come up with a healthy way to help ourselves.

January 29, 2008
10:33 am
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Anonymous
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AT times I cry cause I had to cut off my abusive parents and siblings, I sometimes feel so alone and have dreams of them, waking up so sad...

then I come here and realize that what I had done was for my own best interest and that of my familys and that if I were to make contact with them, they would surely ruin my life, and that of my childs as well...

that is why I stay away..hard at times, but when I smack myself on the head, I realize I am using good sense to stay away....far away.

January 29, 2008
12:42 pm
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Randomwomen2
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Its hard because I cant very well tell her after all these years that i am choosing now not to talk to her. I feel like I would be doing more harm than good. She doesn't put me down or anything I just get flashbacks but I think that even the flashbacks would be better than the guilt that I would carry if I shunned my mother. No one else in her family is willing to talk to her I feel like I am the only one shes got left. Even her brothers wont talk to her and they dont even know what shes done. I can however when I am having a hard time already choose not to answer the phone when she calls. We are not going to sanfransisco this year to visit her like we usually do because we are going to be moving.

January 29, 2008
12:59 pm
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MsGuided
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We all have to do what works for us.

Different dynamics in all our lives.
Guilt is a necessary thing to gauge empathy, but when it is a tool to control others, layered with excessive shame, and is a hinderance and indicator of all actions taken it has gotten way beyond healthy use.

For example:here is an excellent article on
Toxic Guilt, Healthy Guilt
http://www.selfgrowth.com/arti.....aul13.html

Guilt is an important feeling. It is the appropriate feeling to have when we have deliberately done something hurtful or harmful to others. People who can harm others without any feelings of guilt or remorse were formerly called sociopaths or psychopathic personalities, and are now defined as suffering from Anti-social Personality Disorder. Anti-social Personality Disorder is a severe disorder that includes – along with many other symptoms - the lack of a conscience. Without a conscience, people can deliberately harm others without ever feeling guilt or remorse.

While it is very important to feel guilt at deliberately harming others, many people feel toxic guilt. Toxic guilt is inappropriate guilt – guilt that comes from self-judgments regarding having done something wrong when is no actual wrongdoing.

For example Fran, one of my clients, was exploring the guilt she feels when she speaks with her mother.

“No matter what I say, my mother always seems to feel hurt and then I feel guilty at hurting her. Sometimes I wish I never had to talk with my mother. I don’t want to not have a relationship with her, but I hate feeling guilty all the time.”

Fran’s feelings of guilt are not coming from actually inflicting harm on her mother. Her feelings are coming from the self-judgment that she absorbed from her mother’s judgments of her. Her guilt is coming from the fact that she is telling herself she is doing something wrong. Fran falsely believes that if someone feels hurt, it must be her fault.

Fran’s mother taught Fran that when her mother was feeling hurt, it was Fran’s fault. Now Fran feels guilty whenever someone she is involved with feels hurt or angry. However, it is not the other person’s feelings, nor their blame, anger or judgment toward her that is causing Fran to feel guilty. It is her own self-judgment that is causing her feelings of guilt. If Fran did not believe that she was responsible for causing others’ feelings, she would not feel guilty when her mother or others blamed her for their feelings.

Fran actually knows that she is not doing anything wrong, yet she continues to judge herself whenever her mother or others are hurt or upset. There is a very good reason for this.

Fran WANTS to believe that she is causing others’ feelings because it gives her a sense of control over how others feel about her. The wounded part of her that wants to control how others feel about her reasons that, “If I can cause others to be hurt or upset, I can also cause them to be loving and accepting. If I just do things right, then I can control how others feel about me and treat me.” This belief in control gives Fran the illusion of safety. She does not want to know that she is not in control over how others feel about her and treat her. She does not want to know that she does not pull the strings on others’ feelings and behavior.

While Fran doesn’t like the feeling of guilt, she is unconsciously willing to go on feeling guilty in order to maintain her illusion of control. If she comes into truth about her lack of control over how others feel about her and treat her, her toxic guilt will disappear. Toxic guilt and an addiction to control go hand and hand.

We all need to be able to feel healthy guilt - the guilt that comes from actual wrongdoing. But toxic guilt is not good for anyone. You can move beyond toxic guilt by understanding that:

* the belief that you can control others feelings and behavior by doing things "right" ==>
* leads to self-judgment to control your own behavior to get yourself to do it "right" ==>
* which leads to toxic guilt.

The way out of toxic guilt is to:

* fully accept of your lack of control over others feelings and behavior ==>
* which leads to a lessening of self-judgment ==>
* which leads to a lessening of toxic guilt.

With practice, you can completely eliminate your toxic guilt. It’s all up to you!

January 30, 2008
7:39 pm
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Anonymous
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That's a good idea, Ma. I will share it with my sister, and remember it if/when I ever become a mother. Thank you!!

NE

January 30, 2008
7:53 pm
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Anonymous
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MsGuided, I found this article very helpful. Thanks for posting it.

January 30, 2008
7:59 pm
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RW,

I haven't been here in a few days and just wanted to say I was thinking of you.

I can understand what you're going through because my sister's experience is similar. It's definitely important to have at least one person you can be "real" with about everything -- she has me and my brother, as well as her husband (at least on the mom issues). It's great that you're able to be so open here. Post anytime -- a lot of people care what you have to say and can relate.

January 30, 2008
8:02 pm
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MsGuided
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NorthEaster. YVW
My mother is a master of Toxic Guilt and has control addiction issues.

This is why I distance myself from her now. Until I get to a place where she can't effect me like she does.

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