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The Outlaw
August 19, 2001
2:11 pm
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stardreamer
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August 19, 2001
2:19 pm
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stardreamer
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I have been having marital problems due to inlaws. I have been married for 2 almost 3yrs, we dated 2 yrs before we got married. I was never close to my mother-in-law but was close to my father-in-law and sister in-law. About a month ago my sister in-law and I got into a huge blown out fight and I said a lot of mean and hateful things to her, but believe me they were all true!!! She did something behind my back that she knew would hurt me but did it anyway. Needless to say we won't have anything to do with each other. Now my husband is very upset with me because of this and says that I was wrong for the way I treated her and because of me now his family doesn't want anything to do with me and this puts him in the middle. He thinks I should swallow my pride and make things right so that we can all do things together again. My feelings have been hurt and I enjoy not having to deal with his family, but this is putting a lot of strain on our relationship. Any advice would be helpful!!!

August 20, 2001
11:18 am
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Ladeska
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He's codependent with his family. That's "his" problem, not yours. What happened isn't putting a strain on your relationship....but, what it revealed to you about him - is. There are many layers to who we are. Just because we are married - doesn't mean we know all those layers. You just uncovered one and the question is - will you let him scapegoat his immature umbilichord attachment to his family - onto you?

Your strength of character is going to be called on the carpet here. If you let him bully you, then prepare yourself to be in this cycle for a very long time.... You'll just have to swallow whatever and "be a good little girl".... Is this okay with you? If not, be prepared to stand against the whole family. It's not fun having personal boundaries, but what is the alternative? Being a robot?

Sorry if I sound hard, but I have had a lifetime of people trying to make me dance to their tune. Negotiating things? I have no problem with that. But, when it comes to this crap...I don't think so. The herd can be intimidating, true enough, but my life matters and how I live it matters. I hope your quality of life matters to you and that you make decisions based on what you need and not what they need or what he needs.

If.....you guys can sit down at a table and work this out - then it's worth a shot....but....I would only go so far and when it became a thing of - it's all YOU - I'd say - we're done, this is over. So, sure - you can come to the table - take responsibility for what is yours and ask for the same. If it's not given - then you have to make decisions about the browbeating they want to give you and what kind of boundaries you will live within from now on.

August 21, 2001
12:01 am
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stardreamer
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Thanks Ladeska!!! No u did not sound harsh at all this is what I have been feeling, but with everything else going on my true feelings and What I believe seem to be getting buried. I am trying to stand my ground, and it is hard when I thought the one that would always be in my corner has left.
I have never been the one that does it just because everyone else is, if I don't want to do it I DON'T. I just have a lot to lose here and I really don't want to lose it over someone else being stupid. My husband and I have discussed it over & over with it ending in a fight everytime, so now his way of handling is that he doesn't discuss his family with me at all. When he goes and sees them it is his time and I don't have the right to know what goes on with them or to be a part of it. This does give me peace but this cannot be good for us somewhere down the line. It is like walking on eggshells now. I am so afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing, something I never had to do before.

August 21, 2001
11:50 am
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Ladeska
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Stardreamer....It's a bullying technique. They have you outnumbered and are turning the screw. People usually do that because they fear something. And if you happen to be the person that calls something the way it is and they have been quite comfortable living in a web of lies - then guess what? You are going to be Public Enemy No. 1. I always tell people - do you really think that you can speak truth in this world and not expect a round of mortar shells at you? If you throw a bucket of water in a den of snakes, you better run or be prepared to shoot the hell out of them and win! People who are self- deceived and arrogant - don't like truth very much, especially when they are in the midst of others who support that, encourage it and back them up in it. They will spit venom at you every time. Expect it. How well I know....I grew up in the deep south. Need I say more?

Life is one big learning experience and if you adopt the attitude that you have everything nailed down and set in concrete, you'll do serious damage to yourself. There will be no room for adjusting to surprises in life. And you have just been surprised, huh? It's normal though. We all want to put everything in a box, labeled, all neat and orderly and get a false feeling of security about it. Life isn't secure. Not at all, not even a little bit. We are all on the threshold of danger and the element of surprise at all times. The only point of security is within yourself.....is in your ability to be true - to you. People who truly love you - will allow that, will support it, respect it and honor it.

You aren't going to change him or his family. The only one who can change in this equation is - you. He has stated his case. He has chosen his path of action. You then, have to sit back and go - okay......is this acceptable to me? And if not, can we negotiate? If no.....then you have to accept the loss in whatever way it is happened. It takes two here and if he made a decision that takes from the relationship and from the closeness factor, thus giving you a bullying ultimatum of either be a good little girl and follow along here - or else......at some point you have to give him that. He did the action - and this is the reaction and consequence of that action. But, now you also have to make decisions that equate to you taking care of you, too - which removes you from the victim role. He's doing a passive aggressive thing here of probably punishing you and withholding certain things from you so that you will submit to their overall thinking or at least - grin and bear it. I dare say - he wouldn't if things were reversed.

He obviously feels power by huddling with the herd over there and making you out to be the bad guy. However, that reeks of major insecurity and cowardice on his part. So, basically, life is about making adjustments, the current in the river demands it. You can't plot a straight course and not deal with the currents as you encounter them. Living life in a flexible way - will save your ship. I'm not talking about giving in either. I'm talking about making changes that say - I'm taking care of me in response to this current I am experiencing.

It can all be rather simple in some aspects. You are experiencing peace by not having to engage with all of that, so enjoy it. It's not about winning or losing here, this isn't a contest. He has made a choice that makes him feel better and you've admitted it feels better for you also in some ways. I'd just go with that for awhile, see what happens. Stop talking to him about it, he's given you the talk to the hand sign, so back off from it. They are all going to think and do what they do. You, however, have the right to not let it make your life hell. So, if this is his solution on his part because he can't stand up to the FAM or doesn't want to for whatever reason, then that's his answer to you. If you move apart because of it - that was something he put in motion here and you can't undo that. He's a big boy, he's responsible for what he does. The current in the river has changed here and you have to adjust your vessel in order to deal with it.

August 22, 2001
11:03 pm
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stardreamer
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Thanks for the advice I needed that. This is my second marriage and I hope to make it work. I sometimes want to throw my hands up, but I have come a long way and don't want to go back!!! If I could work on what I truly want maybe things will work out. I am trying to get me in order here and that is hard!!! I am afraid of what the real answer is going to be or maybe I am afraid of trusting in someone who can just walk out and leave me all alone again!!! The things I want aren't that much like understanding, and love, and a little compassion every once in awhile would be nice. But then again maybe that is toooo much?

August 23, 2001
11:05 am
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Ladeska
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You know, there's a difference between throwing your hands up and "having boundaries". I think alot of people get the two mixed up. You can state your case and not get all muddled up in "how they receive" it and then not take responsibility for them trying to bully you or punish you for not conforming to their way of thinking.

It's all mind control really. When you get right down to it - you're being "trained". Everytime you make the wrong move - the shock therapy begins. If you act like a good little girl - you get a cookie.

It's not about keeping score as to how many times you fail in life.... Life is a learning experience, a journey and even failures or what you perceive as failures is nothing more than growth. It's not possible for us to know everything about people, how they will act, react in certain situations - nor do we know all that about ourselves either. We can't control how they will change either. Nothing in this life stays the same. Nothing but - change itself.

The only one you can be true to here is - you. And because you have done that - other people who supposedly love you and support you - shouldn't be threatened by that. However, most of the time - that is not true. So then - what do you do with that?

Tis the question you are presented with. You can go backwards in your growth and curl up in the same hole they are in, or you can continue to walk forward. It's a risky business - growing. It's even riskier to hide out in a hole just because it feels more comfy. There's no real security there either...is all a facade...as you are finding out now, right?

I often look at the people who are demanding me to join ranks with them about something and ask myself - do I admire these people, or am I afraid of not getting something from them that I'm used to getting - like approval, friendship (or supposed friendship)..etc.

If someone really, really loves you - they aren't going to gang up on you and they will stand their ground defending you or at the very least - be understanding and fair to all parties. You will not be painted the bad guy for having a different opinion or feelings about whatever.

Fear of that - comes from their own issues with being an individual and having their own personal freedom. So, yes, I'm sure it will be hard for you to pull away and be your own person, you've been conditioned - not to be. And....sometimes, it is too much to ask from people when it comes to accepting that in you. oh well...

Life is a two-way street, isn't it? Aren't you looking at people and considering whether or not it's okay with you - that you're being kicked for "being you"?

It's that herd mentality that people keep clinging to and it amazes me. And everyone in that herd will boast about how big and bad they are and yet you separate them from the herd and they are all cowards and haven't a clue who they really are underneath.

All I can say is - dare to think for yourself. It's okay if you are a duck walking around the barnyard full of chickens. It's okay to be a duck and quack, okay? There are other ducks out in the world who you will identify with, so broaden your scope here and hold your head up.

Stand your ground, act responsibly, but don't kiss anybody's butt either. If you take a step, so should they. And no retreating into a corner to be punished either. Try to really resist that. Speak little, listen much and just watch people...you learn alot that way.

Dare to get to know "you" in all of this....

August 23, 2001
10:32 pm
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stardreamer
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Dare to know Me huh? I have been trying to know who I am,what I am or why I am the way I am. I always have felt like I am always on the outside lookin in, When my husband and I first got together he brought me into a world I usually did not get involved with. I led a very sheltered life thanks to a very strict mother and didn't get to be around a lot of socializing except for the things she approved of (usually just family). Guess why I married the first time to get away from the family!!! I was married for seven years and had two children. My mother finally pulled me out of that mess because she didn't like him. I tried to be on my own and I finally had to move back home with two children which were my responsibilities and never got to forget that. Didn't date to much because I had two children not right for me to do that sort of thing (mother again). I met my husband and tried to tell him it would not work I couldn't go out that much and had children which he did not. He tried and was patient with me for a whole year before we finally moved in together would not get married didn't want that road again. We lived together for another year or so before we got married. I wanted it slow and tested the waters, he was great!! He always have been but here lately I don't know. Maybe it is me and maybe I feel like I have been pushed out again. My question is what do I want, to pe inside or outside been both and don't seem to fit. Maybe being on the outside isn't too bad. There is a few people out here like me but believe me we hide all too well. Just very confused and lonely, but peaceful?????? I enjoy your input it helps me alot thanks!!

August 24, 2001
11:54 am
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Ladeska
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Seems to me that you've never really taken the time to find out - why you are? You mentioned that your mother got you away from your first husband because "she" did not like him and then you went to - living under her roof. And that you lived a sheltered life with them in the beginning as well... Hm,m,m....

Having some security from familiarity is somewhat comforting I guess. That's why alot of women stay in abusive situations. The outside world scares them more than what they are "used to".

So, if I could give you any advise I guess what I'd say more than anything is - turn it all inside out...by that I mean...

If you used to eat mayo instead of mustard - start using mustard. Be like Julia Roberts in "Runaway Bride" - find out what kind of eggs YOU like... If you've always dressed a certain way - pick another style - that you really like but always felt like you shouldn't wear...see what it feels like! Pick a wall in your house and paint it another color - just because you feel like it!

Go roller skating, go get a book you would never read and read it. Expose yourself to diversity....open up the windows of your mind and let the fresh air blow through and then assimilate a picture of "you"...what you like, what you want, who you are.

Change your hair, your perfume - whatever you need to do to get a different perspective on you and on life. Sometimes - we have to wear our underwear outside of our pants in order to arrive there...sometimes we have to go on "journeys" - finding that the journey itself is where we find our answers, not in the destination...

Will people look at you funny? Will yo shock people. Probably, but believe me....they will all be envious because people who flock in herds...are very cowardly people and quite boring. They don't think for themselves and only find safety in numbers where they can feel justified in bullying the world and not having to exert the energy in thinking for themselves or being responsible for anything. "We" think - therefore I am.

Life is to be lived.....not dwindled away following some lame set of rules.... There is a code that is inside of you that needs you to pay attention to it....it has your best interests written there...it's full of life and wants you to wake up as a fully functioning person - not to live life as a robot. You know, sometimes it's okay, too - to say - I don't know....and that be all that's said.... It's okay to say - I'm wearing a Santa Claus hat, sitting here in a pink too-too, contemplating whether or not I'm going to paint the other side of my car turquoise blue or not from the leftover paint I found in the garage.....

Sometimes.....being sane - requires that we go - a little insane...or at least that is what we would get labeled...I beg to differ, but that's a different topic altogether. (smile) And yes, I am a fan of Patch Adams...

August 24, 2001
3:16 pm
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Molly
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I can only add to Ladeska's excellent advice, that after 12 years of my husbands BS with his family, and similar situations to what you described in your first post, that after years of whinning I am the wife, yada yada yada, I tossed my hands up, and redrew the line, I said no more. You can have them, cosign what ever you feel you need to, but I am no longer going to participate, its not them, its you. Since I was already a B****,according to him in their eyes, and maybe his, what did I have to loose? I haven't felt this free in a long time, I speak truth, and if he and they can't handle it, then to heck with them. I can go get my nails done. by the way its working, and my nails look great Come from confidence

August 24, 2001
4:45 pm
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Ladeska
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YEAH MOLLY!!! YOU GO, GIRLFRIEND!! SO GLAD TO HEAR THIS! It's pretty much - just that simple, too. I get angry at myself when I look back and see all the circles I did - when in all reality it was like - Nope, don't like you, don't like the way you treat me, not going to talk anymore, you don't respect me or listen, don't care what you think, what they think, I'm done, case closed.

To think I actually worried over all those other trivial matters, when in all reality - so what if all I had was the clothes on my back. I've got ME! And that's over half the battle. It takes far less to survive than people realize. We are sooo spoiled and so stuck in this mindset of - oh my God I might not have this car or those clothes or this status quo whatever... Well, if you don't have peace and you can't laugh anymore, you're on tranquilizers and sleep aids and maybe drink and smoke like crazy and on edge to the max....is that quality of life? Did I miss something here?

I'd really rather be homeless, sitting on a beach somewhere, contemplating how I'm going to eat my next meal than to be in a spider web like that - slowly dying every day.

When people dare to get free....it's amazing what they can do. Why? Because all of a sudden you have alot of your power back where YOU can use it - for you! Instead of giving it out in all these other different directions. I am soooo proud of you.

August 24, 2001
8:00 pm
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Molly
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Thanks Ladeska, and back at ya, will write soon.
I don't know what happened in our female evolution, some where along the path, we went from Goddess, to wannaplezzhim. I guess, no one has been real happy since. The guys start out enjoying the powertrip, then somewhere along the lines I guess it gets boring so they push it and push it, and darned if there isn't a woman who will take it. Some of us just got pushed to far, now mind you we are not talking female tyrant here, just this is who I am and what I am all about and saying take it or leave it and mean it, not easy, but damn if it doesn't work.

August 27, 2001
11:17 am
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Ladeska
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Yep, Molls....it has to work because the other friggin way of living - isn't really living, is it? If nothing else - you demand respect and if someone doesn't give it to you - who needs ya? When we get a good self esteem going again - we don't put up with the whiners and the bullies and the spiders. We recognize them for what they are - know we deserve better and we side-step them or cut them off from us if we are tangled up with them.

It's rather amusing when control freaks - lose control...it's like - What do you mean - you don't want to dance with me anymore??? And don't want to disect it, toy with it, smell it, be with it, join me in my pain, etc., etc. The simple "No" is just - not understood by them. Amazing, isn't it? We get caught up in trying to - make them understand and that should never be our position from which we operate. If a snake is a snake and it's in our path - is it wise to sit down in the dirt and try to convince the snake - not to be a snake? Um...no....(smile)

August 27, 2001
6:30 pm
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Molly
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I did something that I was glad I did, it again re affirmed my choice. His mother had her birthday while we were away, and he had asked me to go over with him, to deliver the present.
I swear I had an anxiety attack even though I knew I was in complete controll. I really never had an agenda with this woman until Saturday.
I swear I sit not in judgement of their choices their morals, them period, however I observe the consequences, and gain more insight into life.

One of the grandsons, my husbands nephew who had been raised by his mother out of state, came home a year ago, to set up life with his wife out here with working for his father, who has managed to straighten out his life, after years of problems. He caught his wife cheating and beat up the guy that opened up the hotel door. The cops let him go for that. But then he got his hands on a gun, and the cops couldn't ignore that, he was arrested, and jumped bail with out showing up for court. I had to bite my tounge big time when they were trying to minimalize the offense due to the type of gun, and did turn to my husband and said excuse me, tell me i didn't hear you justifying things, due to the type of gun, what the hell was he doing with a gun. But then his mother started with the gossip about the boys mother, and a phone conversation, and then ripped her to shreads, and all the other wives of her sons, and I did intrupt her, and said wait a minuet, yea, but you forget one thing, we have all been married to your boys, and that does make woman crazy, so think about it. They all dropped their jaws, and I said yea me too!!!!
When I walked in the door, it wasn't glad to see you, it was oh, my your working all the time, I am surprised to see you, i said well your just lucky I am still on vacation. I have missed the last three events, due to my stand. Then I get all the health complaints, and how she is looking after her great grand child, my husbands grandaughter, which I guess she thinks is my responsibility, well, don't think all those jabs and probs were really ignored, I got each and every one of them, and to her ignored them, but trust me, I will never step foot there until we do the rosary for her death. If I go for that. I have never in my life heard such things about people, and understand how they are all screwed up, the one thing I will come back with one of these days is that it is a damn good thing that she did have as many kids to take care of her, because I surely won't. I couldn't beleive the cries for money, which my husband gives her more than most. so, do your self a favor and just say no.

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