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the confusion is overwhelming
October 27, 2006
4:26 pm
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readyforachange
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lm...I'm so glad you are taking the opportunity to do something for yourself and your kids. Enjoy your time together, and have fun!!!

October 27, 2006
7:04 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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mom -

I have missed you.

I am sorry you are still hurting, but really thrilled to see how far you have come. You may not see it, but I do.

Keep praying. That's where your best answers will come from.

You said "I can't get my point across" - in reference to trying to talk to him and make him understand. You can't. You won't. He is incapable of understanding. As you said, he has a different reality than you. I am 35 years old. My dad is an alcoholic. He was emotionally unavailable and emotionally abusive all my life. If you talk to him about things, you get a totally different picture of what life in our house was like. He is the only one that sees the reality that way. The rest of us saw the same type of reality that I saw. Talking to him over and over is like beating a dead horse. You made your point. You asked him to step up to the plate. And he won't or he can't. Either way, no matter how many times you bring the subject up, you are bound to get the same response. He wants YOU TO FIX THIS. He wants no personal responsibility in this.

My heart goes out to you. I think getting things in "order" and preparing for the worst is probably the best bet. Keep journaling here, that's what this site is for.

In the end, you have to make the decisions yourself. Nobody can tell you what to do. The answers WILL come from within, but it's always helpful to have other points of view to support that.

((((HUGS))))

October 27, 2006
7:32 pm
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lovingmom,

I hope I didn't say anything offensive or upsetting to you. I wasn't sure how my post sounded, or if you'd read it and maybe wondered how helpful it was for someone to tell you she never LEFT her alcoholic husband.

The arguments sound familiar. But the situations are always unique, aren't they?

I have to say that I was never abused. He never scared me. I never felt threatened. No name-calling. Just very, very frustrated with the lack of responsibility for his own behaviors.

You are very resourceful to stop the merry-go-round and change your Friday routine. And getting things in order for when the time comes...well, you are being pretty stoic and wise. When you continue to go about your business unphased and do not "engage", there is no one to play his game with him. Glad you are being so thoughtful of your children and yourself. Hope you enjoy your family time, too!!

October 27, 2006
7:44 pm
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taj64
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Change of scenery is always good. Getting out of the house is good idea. the more you do, the better it will get. And your kids will love it too.

October 28, 2006
10:58 am
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lovingmom
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ready - Thanks again for responding. You always take the time to read my verrrry looong posts and I appreciate you.

rising - Oh, how I've missed you too. I sent you well wishes a couple of times, but wasn't sure if you saw the second one. I will bump that one up for you so you can see it. I know you've probably been so busy getting things situated. I hope all is well with you. Thanks for responding. I value your input greatly. Thanks for saying that you see a change in me. I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels most days.

Brynnie - You absolutely did not say anything offensive or upsetting. I love to have your input. You are very sweet. Just knowing that you take the time to read and respond means a lot.

taj - Thanks to you too for taking time to read and respond. I'm finally starting to take some of the advice given, I think. I'll keep doing my best to change the ugly patterns around here.

We did go last night, although I was arguing with my husband up until the minute we left. He all of a sudden wanted to talk about things, figures. I again said he was more than welcome to come and he said, "If your dad is invited, then I'm not.". Those are his own ideas, no one else's. We had a great time anyway. The game was fun and then we had hot cocoa and brownies (chocolate overload, mmmm) at my sister's house. It was great. We laughed about stupid things, like we usually do. Funny thing, my dad ended up not going after all, so my husband could have gone. Oh well, maybe it worked out for the best. When we got home (11:00 pm) my husband was sitting in the dark listening to the saddest music he could find and, of course, drinking. I asked why he was in the dark and he said, "I'm having a pity party." and "Why didn't you bring me food?" So, that pretty much sums up the night. I avoided him as much as I could after that, just to avoid what was sure to be a big blow-out between us.

Today is a new day. My daughter starts dance class today. This is her second year. She is busting with excitement. Dancing is just her thing. They do a combination of ballet and jazz and it is so adorable to watch! Hope everyone has a GREAT day!!

October 28, 2006
5:24 pm
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readyforachange
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(((lovingmom))) glad you had a nice time with your kids.

Your h. sounds like my ex...and bottom line, you can't make him happy. If he wants to sit in the dark and drink, let him. It isn't your job to provide happiness for him. Enjoy life, and the time with your kids that you have.

I lost a friend to breast cancer last night... She has three beautiful children. Life is short. Cherish those moments..every dance class, football game, Halloween costume. They are all precious.

October 28, 2006
6:00 pm
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Oh wow lovingmom. I'm not going to be able to shake that image of him drinking and pouting in the dark.

I'm glad you are eating chocolate. I think it's important!!! 🙂

I'm so sorry you lost your friend, ready. Her decline was so very quick. Just keep loving her family. And we'll keep loving you.

Rising is saying also what I have always not wanted to believe. That if you ask him HIS version of the past, it is hard to not just stand there and stare at him in confusion at what he is capable of saying. I guess that is what so many call "crazy-making". It has made me doubt myself too many times. Now I just say things like Gee it's amazing how we both were there and remember it so differently.

October 28, 2006
6:12 pm
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readyforachange
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(((Brynnie))) thank you...it means a lot to me.

October 28, 2006
9:33 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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For a long time I thought I was crazy.

Now that I am separated from my ex, I can see that I was NOT the crazy one, tho he made me that way for that time period.

I do remember the important stuff - and I did see things clearly.

It's the doubt and second guessing myself that I regret - cuz all along, I did have that feeling that things weren't right. I am a smart woman - and I allowed him to make me feel dumb.

I won't go back to that ever again.

October 29, 2006
2:14 pm
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lovingmom
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Ready - I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. Thanks again for your kind words. Your reminder is priceless - I will do my best to cherish those moments because it can all be taken away in the blink of an eye. I will say a prayer for you and for the family of your friend.

Brynnie - Thanks for your response again. Yes, the image was quite sad, indeed. He's such a child. He just wants me to keep being his mommy and I can't do it any more. Time to grow up and face the real world.

Rising - It's funny how the hurtful things he says are never meant to be hurtful. What are they meant for then? I do remember the words that hurt and I do remember the silent treatments. Those things don't go away just because he decides to be loving and sweet the next day. He is a total manipulator and I let him manipulate me. I, like you, am a smart woman and I see it all so clearly now.

Last Sunday was when the 4-day silent treatment started. I really must say, I think last Sunday was a little more enjoyable for me. I did my own thing, didn't have to worry about being right by his side all day, got all the laundry done, felt really productive and strong. Today he wants me to be right there and I'm not really in the mood. I guess what I'm trying to say is, as hurtful as his silence can be, maybe it wasn't all that bad and maybe I'm starting to see myself as a separate person and am starting to realize that feeling good about myself doesn't depend on how happy he is. Wow, did I just have another lightbulb moment?

October 29, 2006
5:39 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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my dear, THAT is what we call a lightbulb moment.

when you can go about your business and not let his temper tantrums ruin your day, you are on your way to recovery.

good job!

October 29, 2006
5:42 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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think about it...when our kids are small, and we impose a restriction (for their own good) and they throw a temper tantrum....do we let it ruin our day?

no, we realize that as good parents, we HAVE to set limits and it's for their own good.

sure, we may feel like a "bad mommy" but that is only fleeting...we know we are being the adult and kids need us to be the adult, cuz they can't make good decisions.

your husband IS a child. And he's been making bad decisions and you have been accepting them. Afraid to challenge him...fear of being a bad wife.

Well, now you are making GOOD decisions for you - adult decisions.

And he's throwing his temper tantrum.

Don't let it ruin your day - know that it's the best thing for both of you....whether he likes it, understands it or agrees with it.

October 29, 2006
8:59 pm
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readyforachange
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yes, I agree...your husband is a child, and he is throwing a tantrum with his silence. How you choose to react is your trump card; and he will not like it one bit when he doesn't get your attention because of his tantrums.

The problem with your husband being a child is that someday, your own children will be more mature than him. It happened in my house when my son was about 12 or 13. It was also the time that I KNEW that I couldn't save my marriage.

Now that I've been divorced for 18 months, my kids are unfortunately the ones who have to suffer the silent treatment. My daughter has had no contact with her dad for two weeks after an argument they had when she asked to go to a friend's house for a while on his weekend. He packed her up and dropped her off at my house, telling her she wasn't allowed to come back to his house. He hasn't called or seen her since...he even went so far as to back out of coaching her volleyball team mid-season, missing the last two games and three practices. And Tuesday is her birthday (yes, Halloween)...I'll bet my last dollar that he doesn't call her or acknowledge her day at all. Talk about childish...

If you are seeing this type of behavior, I feel for you. It isn't going to change or get better. Adults who are children NEVER grow up, if you ask me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

October 30, 2006
7:30 am
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lovingmom
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Rising - Thanks again. I see so many child-like things in him. If he's getting his way and getting what he wants, he's the happiest, sweetest thing ever. If not, well that's obvious. Oh by the way, I mentioned at one time in this thread that my counselor suggested that I go to an Al-Anon meeting. Have you ever gone? I'm having a hard time getting up the courage to go, but I really feel like I should.

Ready - Thanks to you too. I agree with the fact that they never grow up, especially with someone like me in their lives, someone who will wait on them hand and foot and make sure their every need (emotional, physical, financial, etc.) is met. So, that means I have to be the one to change, whether he likes it or not (and we already know he doesn't like it).

November 1, 2006
9:46 am
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readyforachange
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how are you, lm???

November 1, 2006
11:39 am
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lovingmom
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I'm doing ok, I guess. Thanks for asking. I had an appointment with my counselor yesterday. As we talked I started to realize that I'm working hard on trying to make this work, but I'm not really sure I WANT it to work. I'm so stuck on not wanting to break up my family that I haven't really asked myself, "Do I even want to be married to this man any more?" I am really more like his mother than his wife. I make sure all of his needs are met and make sure he's happy, but keep putting my happiness on the back burner, you know? We are renting the house we live in now and the lease is up at the end of Jan. I think since I've totally laid everything out on the table for him and told him how I feel about all of this, I'm going to see how things go between now and the end of the year. I don't want to disrupt everyone's holidays, so I'm going to hang in there and see how it goes. I'm going to keep working on me in the meantime. If things don't get any better or get worse, I think I'll just have to suggest a separation at that point. I hate for it to come to that, but I can't live like this for the rest of my life. I'll be 36 next year and I don't want to live any more of my life being unhappy. Wow, you asked such a simple question and got a really complex answer. Sorry about that. Hope you're doing well.

November 1, 2006
3:52 pm
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readyforachange
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lm....yes, it was a simple question. The fact that you gave me a complex answer lets me know that you are asking yourself all the right questions, looking deeply into yourself, and leading yourself to healing. Bravo! I think your plan is just what needs to be done...work on yourself, do some soul searching, give him until the end of the year. Hang in there...and keep your focus.

November 1, 2006
4:03 pm
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lovingmom
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Thanks Ready, you're great!!

November 5, 2006
11:30 am
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readyforachange
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hey, lovingmom...what's up with you? How are you doing? Thanks for your input on my thread, I really appreciate it. Hang in there, okay?

November 5, 2006
12:46 pm
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Lovingmom,
It sounds like we are in the same boat at the same age right now. When you said that although you are working on things you don't know if you WANT it to work, I really identified with you. Do I want it to work because I love him, or do I want it to work for my kids and because I am afraid of what will happen if it doesn't work?
I think it's important to take the time to repair ourselves before we add the pressure of figuring out what is best as far as marriage.
I encourage you to continue with counseling and give AL-ANON a try. I've gone to a few meetings and they can be quite helpful. Shop around a bit to find the right group for you. Good luck and remember you are not alone. And don't pressure yourself, it took a long time for things to get bad, they will not get better overnight.

November 5, 2006
4:31 pm
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lovingmom
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Ready - I'm doing ok. I really wanted to give Al-Anon a try yesterday, but forgot that I promised my sister that I'd watch her kids Friday night, so I had them Sat. morning when the meeting I had planned to go to was scheduled, so maybe next week. I keep letting my husband pull me into stupid arguments and I really need to work on me some more. I'm not so confused any more though. I'm hanging in there and will keep doing so. Thanks for checking on me.

katiescarlet - Thanks for your post. Yes, that question has crossed my mind a lot: Do I stay married to this man who has caused me so much pain? Even if he does change? It's a lot to think about. I hope you find your answers too. You sound like you're on the right track. Let's work on ourselves and get to that place where we need to be and then hopefully it will all work itself out. My husband actually said "I want my wife to come back." the other day, so he sees the changes. He sees that I'm not letting him walk on me (as much) and doesn't like it at all. That's the wife he wants back. The one who doesn't say what's on her mind, the one who keeps all of her feelings inside. I know too much to turn back now. If he can't be happy with the real me (which is the me who is starting to stand up for herself), then he'll do everything he can to get the old me back (and he's tried, believe me). I hope to get to Al-Anon next weekend (finally). I'm really looking forward to going. I hope this group that came highly recommended to me is the right one. If not, I'll shop around like you said. Thanks for taking the time to read and post. You hang in there too.

November 5, 2006
5:07 pm
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southgoingzax
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lm,

just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and hoping you are getting somewhere, mentally, that can grant you more peace....there are no easy answers, and no easy, painless way out. I'm glad to here you are ready for al-anon meetings, I hope it works out as the place for you to be,

zax

November 5, 2006
7:03 pm
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lovingmom
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zax - Thanks so much for thinking about me. I love knowing there are people out there that care. Hope you are doing well also. You are so sweet to write. Take care.

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