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The "Absolutely No Contact" Club
July 19, 2005
10:06 am
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frayedknot
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KC

Thank you for your advice.. I don't even think of sending any of my other ex's B-day cards.. That puts it in pretty good perspective. I don't send my ex wife any cards.... Of course, I don't have any feelings for my ex wife. That goes to show you how "feelings" cloud judgement..

I am going to follow yours and 2B's advice. I will tell my daughter that I'm not ready to hear anything about the ex right now.. Maybe we can talk about it down the road... I'm a BIG believer in learning from others mistakes. You have been at this longer than most.. If it was a mistake for you, then, it would be a mistake fo me..

Frayed

July 19, 2005
10:16 am
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frayedknot
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TC

I can always count on you for a burst of laughter that catches the attention of my coworkers... If I had fish, I could send her a b-day card from them?...... LOL

To be honest TC, I'm not belittling your sending a b-day card from his dog. Sounds like the thoughtfull, caring person you are. I just wish it was directed at someone more deserving..

The list of the probable scenarios is quite interesting and took some work from you to complete.. thank you.. I'm guessing 4 would be correct.... but, like you, I would LOVE to have 5 be correct..

Frayed

July 19, 2005
10:23 am
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FN --

In my case, part of the no-contact is not consciously seeking information about her. It may happen that I pick up that information somewhere along the line (and I can't say that it doesn't occur to me to make a call or two 'just to find out if she is okay' or whatever rationalization works that day. My sobriety date was May 28 and she was well aware of that. I got a bunch of cards in the mail, a ton of emails and telephone calls from significant people in my life....on the 28th; she called me on the 30th to congratulate me thinking the 30th was the date (I didn't correct her). Since then there has been a significant milestone anniversary in our relationship but it was after I elected no-contact. I didn't contact her and neither did she --- I'm thinking she forgot it but who knows. I am not sending her anything for her birthday or other events --- like I have in the past (kind of a sentimentalist) and I'm not losing sleep over it.

No-contact to me means just that. If she is in trouble and needs help; she is going to have to figure that out on her own. That sounds cold but it I just don't know how it could work any other way and leave me any chance at sanity.

Be well my friend and keep the faith.

July 19, 2005
10:31 am
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frayedknot
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CD

Thanks for sharing your experiences and opinions.. I'm kind of a sentimentalist also... That's why I wondered if it would be the correct thing to do. I don't want to break my string of no contact. I'm going to take everyones advice and "keep on truckin"....

I think I'm feeling better today than I have in a while.. Seem to have more of a "skip" about me. People use to call me "smilin ______", I haven't given them any reason to call me that for quite some time.. I want that nickname back...

Frayed

July 19, 2005
10:40 am
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littlebutterfly
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Hey guys, I have an idea... I could use a nice letter telling me someone really loves me and wants to be with me, be my best friend, love me. I can't think as I have ever received one like that in my life (I realize even the love poems my husband sent me while we were dating were more sexualized and doting than really loving). It gets discouraging because

So if you have the overwhelming desire to send one of those "I love you won't you be mine" or "you are such a great person I know if you could heal we could make beautiful music together" blah blah blah...letters to an ex, maybe you could modify it and send it to me... I really could use the encouragement. Maybe we all can

Hell I think there are a lot of people on this board who have a lot of genuine love in them that has been beaten down and suppressed and only brought out by abusers and narcissists. Perhaps we could start a new thread where people could post their the really loving, generous and kind things they would normally want to say to the abuser and we can all say it to each other. Because as much as I need support in other areas, I think I give to others because I genuinely want to be loved and want others to feel loved by me.

Just because the man I chose is incapable of receiving that love without needing to punish me for loving him doesn’t mean I should not be able to feel love and express it in a safe environment toward people who genuinely want and need to be loved. Right. Of course the letters would need to focus on t he good feelings not be intermingled with the bad. I thinking that if I personally can see it maybe it will be a means of actually beginning to understand the type of love I am really seeking out so that I can find it. I’ll start the thread as “LOVER: THE THINGS I ADORE IN YOU.”

The hate letters really are best written then thrown out however. I agree with that.

July 19, 2005
10:49 am
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kc30
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The love letters idea- great one!

I must admit though, that the ticket for me is to stop looking for someone else to send me those "love letters" but to send them to myself.

Positive affirmations...every time I get upset (which isn't that much anymore) about my ex and the things that have happened, and I want to engage him somehow...I find if I just stop, sit still for awhile, and figure out exactly WHY I want to call him. and what I am looking for him to say or do, I can figure out how to give that affirmation to myself. It feels hollow at first, but over time, it really works.

I understand the wanting to be loved and appreciated by someone else, but we'll never get that love until we learn to give it to ourselves.

kc

July 19, 2005
11:24 am
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Beginning Day 7 of No Contact. I am feeling a bit better today. I read and re-read the "Commitmentphobe" article that Turnabout referred to (Thanks TB)... It has really affected me.

I realize that the ending of our relationship has NOTHING to do with me, with anything I did or did not do. No matter how I acted, reacted or felt, the results would have been the same. He cannot commit. Not to me, not to anyone.

It is a very hollow feeling I have right now. I feel like the entire past year and a half has been a lie. I could have been ANYONE...I feel like women are interchangeable to him. I gave so much. Cared so much and expected so much and he KNEW all along that he was not going to give me what I wanted... but said nothing.

Soooooo many times (beginning around month 6 of our relationship)... I said "If you don't want the same things in life (marriage, family, future)... PLEASE tell me. Don't let me waste my time". He said He loved me and wanted us to stay together. I gave him chance after chance after chance to walk away and he didn't.

That gave me hope. He loves me. He doesn't want to lose me.

I was so misled.

I'm sorry to go on about this again. I know I sound like a broken record.... I just have such a hard time wrapping my brain around it....

Anyway, Day 7... The only "contact" that I need to have with him now is to return his suitcase that I borrowed for our trip. I think I'll have a friend bring it over. I can't possibly start this madness over again. It is too hard.

July 19, 2005
11:41 am
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KC --

I think you are like the co-dependency savant. When I feel like contacting her is when I am upset with either anger over her behavior or that 'she will understand and I will feel better.' I still get upset enough with either of those areas that maintaining no-contact is sometimes a struggle.

Slowing down enough to figure out the 'why' I want to contact is significant. When I wrote my 'you're such a shit' letter to her, I never intended to send it. But, after it was done I was tempted -- at times in biblical proportions of temptation -- to fire it off as an attachment to an email. When I would ask myself why I wanted to send it the veil of justification (that it would help her to see her failings by someone who actually knew them --- *gasp* I'm embarrassed to even write that out here, but I was so convinced when I was thinking it) got real thin. I wanted to feel better by 'making' her feel bad, wanted to be vindicated and feel self-righteous and, with any luck at all, have her seek me out for the rescue (I think the Karpman triangle comes in here somewhere). The key is, as you say, looking to her to feel better about me.

The rant letter is just one example. I'm fully capable of playing the victim-card as well and have been just as tempted to do the poor-me email. Same thing works for that too.

The insidious part of all of this is that I can justify and rationalize it to the point where I am convinced the thought process is something akin to that used in the Manhattan Project or development of the theory of relativity....if I don't stop and ask the why questions -- and, if I am still convinced it is the right path to take, to make contact, I ask my sponser and/or set it out here. If you or EF don't kick my head-off about it, maybe there is some sanity to other-wise madness. (thank you (and EF) for that, BTW).

July 19, 2005
2:13 pm
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Hurts_so_bad
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Hi everyone,

I went to my counseling session last nite, and after talking about feelings, reactions, etc., I left with a new realization: HE DOES NOT WANT ME!!!!!

I suppose I've known that for quite some time, but kept rationalizing him not writing a lot, not calling often because he was so busy at work. Well, no -- that's not the reason. He's not writing or calling that much because HE DOESN'T WANT ME!

He's only throwing me a few bones here and there to satisfy he ego. Some men apparently (maybe women too) satisfy their need for "needing someone" via flirty emails or calls, but never actually needing human contact. Strange, but apparently true. I know he's been going fishing almost every weekend. If not fishing, hiking. I realize that even if he wanted me back, I wouldn't fit into his lifestyle, and he wouldn't fit into mine.

So, today I'm actually feeling stronger than I have in months. My eyes do not tear up at the thought of him or even when I say the words HE DOES NOT WANT YOU out loud. That's progress for me. 🙂

July 19, 2005
2:26 pm
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kc30
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tc- What you are feeling is very, very very normal- that part about the last year and a half being a lie. I felt the same way for months with my stbx. I don't really feel that way anymore, but I did then.

I think the thing I failed to realize is that the way I felt wasn't going to be permanent. The perspective I have isn't going to last forever. Change is constant, and I am constantly changing, which means the way things look and feel will change too. It just takes time, and for me, I would just get overwhelmed by the feelings, not realizing they wouldn't last forever, and would do what I could to repress them, including going another round with the ex.

I can tell you that you will feel this way for a good while, and it's healthy and normal and you will work through it and it will pass. I PROMISE you.

Char-dad! Thanks for the kind words. I can only relate my experiences, and I find it very very strange how many people are going through the exact same thing, complete with the same thoughts, feelings and justifications, that I have been through over these past 18 months! I wish I could just reach out and yank everyone up to where I am, but I know that I wouldn't have gotten here if I hadn't gone through that. These are the things that work for me....and maybe someday they'll help someone else too? You sound like you're getting a few biggies...at least they were big for me when I started to get them.

Hurts- sounds like a major breakthrough for you! kudos and congrats!

kc

July 20, 2005
1:20 am
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littlebutterfly
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kc what a great idea! I will start writing MYSELF love letters!!!! You rule!!!! What an absolutely fabulous idea!

July 20, 2005
1:59 am
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littlebutterfly
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I recalled recently that every time my husband and I went to marriage counseling, every time I told someone the crap I was going through, they said to me "If he's so bad then why are you staying? If he's done all this stuff why don’t you leave?" It was always said like an accusation, at least I took it that way. I always felt so ashamed when they asked that, so soiled and ugly and small. I think it was meant to make me feel like that. There are many incompetent and power hungry people who hang out the counselor shingle.

Oh hell, some of the counselor’s actually believed that I was the abuser because I yelled at him (according to him I have been abusing him all these years… well my jaw has the fracture a$$hole). I have been told by a counselor that he is so financially “successful” that obviously I am the one ho needs to “get over it.” Another counselor told me that my saying his father (who repeatedly made lewd sexual comments to me, (peeped at me while I was undressed behind closed doors, etc, etc), made lewd sexual comments to his own daughters and to his own 13yo granddaughter) is a pervert meant I was “stupid.” Why? Because all it did was “make my husband mad.”

But I kept getting that same question. It was not until I sought out counseling for myself and had a counselor that actually didn’t just sit there stone faced while I told her all the crap I’d been through, one who actually told me that this family acted out in a sexually addictive fashion, that I finally felt validated enough to asked it of myself. Low and behold the answer came back co-dependant (just out of the blue) I found this we-site, now I have a book I am reading on the subject “codependent no more.” I wish I had found this book years ago.

I guess I had not hit rock bottom by then, and I had not asked myself that question. Instead I always said, “I am so stupid to stay, he doesn’t love me, he doesn’t care.. blah blah. Now I finally asked myself to answer that question and the answer came. I no longer feel helpless. I no longer feel guilty and ashamed that I stayed. I grew up with an alcoholic father. I learned this pattern of behavior in order to survive; now I need a new set of behaviors to move forward in my life.

But hurts_so_bad, it was what you just said that struck me. “HE DOES NOT WANT ME.” He plans his vacations without me, he invites his sister to do stuff with him his wife should. He excludes me at every opportunity, he plans stuff with his family behind my back (and takes our daughter to be with his family for Easter and Christmas while not even inviting me when he knows I want to share those times with my children) he lets his family abuse me, lie about me, exclude me. He does not want me, he does not care about me.

He does not want me. It does not matter if I am nice to him. It does not matter if I am in shape, even when I did those things he rejected me and did not want me. He does not want me. Well I too am tired of his bones. I want a thick steak, potatoes and a big slab of emotional pie. I want to be satiated. I am emotionally starving to death in this relationship. But he would rather I suffer than be bothered with giving me more than his cleaned bones. But hell, I know how to cook for myself. I do not need what’s on his plate…. And maybe just maybe bones are all he has to give… cause someone who treats another person as he does must not have a lot of emotional food to eat.

I will be seeing him for five days starting Thursday. I will use this mantra the entire time. He does not want me. But I want me, my kids want me. I deserve to be loved and I deserve to get in shape and when I do, when I get my own life, and he suddenly decides that I am worthy of his attention, I will no longer have any interest (already it is dissipating). It will be too late for him. I am going to fill up my plate with a feast and share that feast with my beautiful children. And he can go find someone else’s buffet to feed off of.

July 20, 2005
4:31 am
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willitgetbetter
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Hi Guys
Hope you are all ok and remaining strong. Just reading some of the threads. Tc66, that made me think about the different scenarios. I had no contact for about three months earlier this year. She sent me an email on my birthday, I responded and we atarted again. It all ended in tears. What if I hadn't responded? I would have been in control at that stage but no, by responding, (as she knew I would), I played into her hands and I lost control of the situation.

I have regained that control now and I can't wait for her birthday in September because I certainly won't be sending her a card!

Thinking back, the same thing happened at Christmas. I didn't send her a card, (we split in November). SHE then contacted ME in January!

I know something, (and it's been a long time coming), now I am in control of the situation, I need to keep that control and stick to no contact whatever happens. If she needs something or is in trouble, she can sort it out herself, it's not my problem. There will be absolutely no need for me to respond to her contact, (which i know will she will as she is following a similar pattern). Funnily enough, when I gave her the ultimatum last Wednesday, she was the one that contacted me after day 5 and you know why? Because she was playing a game. She told me a few weeks ago when we were getting along that if she upsets me she knows i will ignore her for 4 days then contact her. Huh, I didn't do that this time and she had to contact me. Well next time, she will get no response from me because I like being in control of the situation and my life!

July 20, 2005
8:19 am
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kc30
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Littlebutterfly
Your story- and people asking you why you stayed if it was so awful- reminded me of this quote, which sums up the end of my relationship nicely:

"We as humans, judge and abuse ourselves like no one else can.....

If we are in a relationship where the other person abuses us more than we abuse ourselves.....we will leave.

If we are with a person who abuses us just slightly less than we abuse ourselves....we will stay"

I think the level of abuse, neglect and mistreatment we tolerate from people in our lives directly relates to our opinion of ourselves, and what we believe on an innate level that we deserve. When we start to love and value ourselves more than another person, and come to believe that we deserve better than what we are getting...better is exactly what we will seek, and we will walk away.

You sound like you've got your hiking boots on? Good for you!!

kc

"

July 20, 2005
8:53 am
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turnabout
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That quote is profound, kc. Do you remember where it comes from?

July 20, 2005
8:57 am
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kc30
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No I don't...someone posted it on this site, and I copied and saved it because it pretty much knocked me over...I found it that insightful!

July 20, 2005
9:36 am
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2bstrong
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Willit--

Glad to hear that you're doing better this week. You are fortunate in the way that you can clearly see that she is playing a game with you. Take that advantage and run with it.

Thanks for posting--the conviction and strength you are projecting is much needed here!--2b

July 20, 2005
10:11 am
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Day 8...

How do I feel? Sick, sick, sick!!!

I am honestly in shock that he has not called me since I got back from vacation!!! I have been so accustomed to this "game" we've been playing with each other that I've played right into it... and now he's picked up his ball and went home!!!!! I'm still on the field!! Waiting... the sun went down, I'm still standing there. The sun came up...still there. It starts raining, but I don't move, because he'll be back to finish the last inning, right? Nope... 8 days later, I still stand frozen and exhausted on an empty ball field, alone. Sad...

I am feeling so very sorry for myself today. My mind is racing and I'm having a hard time concentrating on my work. I came into the office today (I work out of my home on Tuesdays and Thursdays)... and my desk was piled sky high with new projects. I bounce from one thing to another... forget where I left off... start over...well, you get the point.

I feel so stupid for ranting about this again! I KNOW that he is not worth my time, but I just feel sooooo rejected! It hurts so much!

TC

July 20, 2005
10:18 am
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2bstrong
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Oh, TC--GIANT hug for you...I must be a bit psychic today because moments ago I posted on your "home" thread.

TC--the game is forfeited because he did not show up. Guess what? You WIN! You are one win ahead because he didn't call. Believe it! Do you know how far ahead you are?

The rejection is the most painful part, I have to agree. But remember what kc always says: "It's not you--it's them". The rejected feelings pass pretty quickly and give way to anger, resentment, a bit of understanding, and the beginning of clarity. Please trust me TC--I was right where you are--after ten and a half years together. If I can do it, anyone can. I believe I deserve better.--2b

July 20, 2005
10:27 am
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(((((TC)))))

You are exactly where I was my entire first two weeks of no contact. I described it as being in a fog.. Almost like I wasn't in my body.. No hunger.. Numb to everything. Couldn't give my kids any of my attention. No ability to concentrate. People would talk to me and I wouldn't hear them. I lost 8 pounds.. I had to talk to someone my entire waking hours. I kept asking people the same questions over and over and over. Drove my friends and family crazy.. Tripled my normal cell phone bill. I'm guessing you are having many of these same feelings? You are going through your "cold turkey" of addiction to him.. The most important thing... Don't get anymore fixes..... End the addiction once and for all. Write your thoughts on here.. Call your friends/family.. I read a lot of self help books..... You've probably done that already... Rent some comedy movies. I worked-out long and hard. Then, I would come home and walk.. This pain that you are going through will give you strength when you emerge from it. Have patience for this process. You will be ok...

One of your many, many, many friends...... Frayed

July 20, 2005
10:50 am
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Frayed--are you trying to get some work accomplished today? I missed you this morning!

BTW--I could have written what you wrote to tc about myself. It was very strange, I DID NOT want to be around my family, and I too kept asking the same questions over and over. My counselor called it acute hysteria.--2b

July 20, 2005
10:54 am
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Frayed, I went through ALL of the things you mentioned above 4 months ago when we actually "broke up"... although, I lost 20 lbs. but everything else was the same (my poor kids, they saw me cry so much during that time. It must have scared the pants off of them).
I went through MAJOR withdrawals at that time... then I just got used to an all new level of communication... settled into it (even though I didn't like it, want or need it...). I believed that our separation was temporary so that he could be "sure" that I was the ONE... which is what he led me to believe. So, I guess I was living in sort of an alternate universe (limbo) for the past few months. I didn't see the actual "break" coming. I feel a bit blind-sided.

2B, Thanks for caring, as always! I feel like I've been going back and forth in the "stages" so much!!! I'm hurt and rejected one day, I'm angry the next, I'm hopeful after that, then I give up and feel acceptance... out of nowhere, I feel rejected again, resentful, angry, sad, clarity... etc.

Aren't the stages of grief supposed to pass and be gone???? I'm so tired of feeling this way. I just want to be ok, all the time!!!!!

I am usually such a happy-go-lucky person and I feel like there is such a dark cloud hanging over me right now. I want to be ME again!

TC

July 20, 2005
11:03 am
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willitgetbetter
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After all I said, I get a phone call today from an ex colleague who [she] still works with. i was asked whether I am seeing anyone. I refused to answer but asked why? I was told the [she] is driving everyone nuts by non-stop talking about me, asking them whether she should phone me etc. Apparently she is missing me real bad and wants me back but doesn't want to be hurt and wants to take things slow. She didn't want to call me in case I put the phone down or told her to f*** off! I said I would call her to chat in a day or two. What do I do, I'm confused again?

July 20, 2005
11:04 am
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Good morning 2B

Believe it or not.... I may have earned some of my paycheck this morning!!.. I'm actually working like crazy.. I'm a little behind... I feel like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest..

I have been waiting for your post(s) this morning. Are you ok today? How was last night? How is your home computer project developing?

I'm going to the Grape again tonight... We have a big group (8) going. Want to join us?

The Brewers edged past the Cards last night. The Brewers web site has a photo gallery of my cousin signing autographs at their gift shop.. We don't look alike, however.. He's dark complected with dark hair and eyes.. I'm lighter with blue eyes and strawberry blond hair..

Frayed

July 20, 2005
11:07 am
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kc30
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(((TC)))

I'm so sorry you are hurting today. All the feelings you are describing are normal and healthy. It's hard to be in pain...it feels like it will never, ever pass. I think that's why I've done so many back and forths with my ex...had I realized that one day...I would indeed be myself again, and that most days would be good without him, and that I would be happier and healthier than I have ever been, then I would have been able to endure the pain.

I know it's hard to believe, but this will pass. Quickly? No, I'm afraid that's not the case. Ever hear the saying "No pain no gain" or "Short term pain for long term gain"? It's pretty accurate to me. Yes, it'll be a rough 6 months, but if you can stay strong and stay away from this toxic man, you will have a lifetime of enjoying your new health, new strength, new insights, and your new best friend and most loyal supporter...YOU!

It's not a reflection of your worth or value that he doesn't call you. That he coudln't give you what you deserve. It's a reflection of HIM...HIS issues, HIS journey through life. You are a wonderful person...some people just have problems though, and wonderful people are lost on them. You don't want one of those people, do you? You want someone who can see you for the incredible catch that you are, and who will hold on and never, ever let you go.

That's not him. You can't make a cat be a dog...a cat is a cat, and no matter how great you are and how much you shower the cat with love, affection, attention...he will still be a cat. He can't change for you into the dog you want. Even if he wanted to...he just can't.

So again, you end up having to decide everyday...can I live with the cat, or do I need to go find a dog. If you can endure the cat and all the things that cats do, and you feel that's ok, then keep the cat. If you know you'll never be happy with the cat...you know you need a dog, then go and get yourself a dog!!

Hope that's not too corny! It's not about you...it's HIM. Don't take it personally...believe it or not, it's a blessing that he doesn't call. I used to feel the same way you do, but now, 6 months later, I am soooo glad that he left me alone! I feel so great, so strong and so healthy...vibrant and independant, loving and lovable...and nothing has changed with him. He's still with the same woman he cheated on me with, and I don't care anymore!

It's great...I've never felt like this in my life...in control of ME. Not insecure and needy. It makes the pain soooo worthwhile.

hugs to you...it WILL get better. I promise, and if I'm lying, you can come kick my Canadian ass 🙂

kc

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