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THE 12 STEPS OF THE NON_RECOVERED:
March 22, 2010
7:52 pm
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atalose
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(((fantas)))

Remember that movie called the “The sixth Sense” with Bruce Willis and the little boy who see’s dead people.

Well, I see dumb people, they are all around me, and they don’t even know they are dumb!!!!! LOL LOL

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

March 22, 2010
7:54 pm
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atalose
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Guess I am stuggling with the non-recovered step 4 too......LOL

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

March 22, 2010
8:14 pm
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fantas
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LOL, Don't feel too badly about seeing dumb people. I'm solidly camped at 5, 10, 11, and 12, right now. There should be one for self imposed stress.

March 23, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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Lillabit,

A lot of very valid points.
How dare you come over here & question the validity of the AAer's bible - 'The Big book.' lol
Reason & logic aren't always well received over here.

Seriously, you should be commended for your input rather than shunned.

Having previously been involved with the 12 step program I can definitely relate to the cult analogy. It's 'God's(HP's) way or the hi-way type of mentality with those folks and that just doesn't fly with a lot of people. Nor should it have to. Folks sit around night after night complaining about the same things over & over again. They get stuck in a loop, unable to really grow as a person.
The time came when I'd eventually reached a plateau & just quit going.
It was like a breath of fresh air in a way. Good to be around people who'd shared similar probs initially but, I reached a point where I just didn't see attending more meetings as being productive anymore. Forcing it on anyone is as ridiculous as forcing religion is.

So, I guess what ever floats your boat, as they say but, for someone to tell another that they aren't savvy enough to beat the addiction without 'AA' is rather condescending, I'd say.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Some ways even better.
i.e. Cognitive therapy, as you'd mentioned or even the release of suppressed guilt.

Anyhow, thanks for the good thots.

March 23, 2010
1:14 am
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sdesigns
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"How dare you come over here & question the validity of the AAer's bible - 'The Big book.' lol Reason & logic aren't always well received over here."

CC, was that really necessary?

My point was that maybe this thread wasn't the right place for what she was trying to say, had nothing to do with the validity. Two dif animals. And Lillabit said something like she was kicked off- again a translation not stated.

She has now started a dif thread and can discuss her points. It has to do with staying on topic.

March 23, 2010
1:24 am
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Lillabit
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Craigco. thanks. (((CC))) I appreciate your input. You know. i did learm from going to those meetings. but what i mostly saw was negativity breeding negativity. maybe i should have gone longer. but i lost patience with those saying the same thing over n over.

what i thought after sitting at those meetings for 6 months was if I was trying to quit smokimg ... would i hang out in a smoke lounge? I wouldn't. so i quit going. i found other books that helped my friend n helped me to support her dring her recovery.

March 23, 2010
1:26 am
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Lillabit
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sdesigns. i did say in a earlier post that i thought the original post was a lighthearted attimpt at poking fun at the twelve steps. im' sorry i was wrong. i did feel however that i was being told by everyone in a very subtle way to get off the thread.

March 23, 2010
2:42 am
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CraigCo
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Sd,

Whoah there!! Somethin got your shorts in a knot? lol

What harm has been done here? Nobody's jumping on anyone. I sure wasn't singling you out for anything. As far as my comment(s) being necessary, well I guess that's just subjective. I have no ill intentions for you or anyone else here. As long as our egos don't react then we should be ok, right?
Take a deep breath - it's all good! 🙂 Be well!

Lil,

Yeah, a subtle way of asking you to 'knock it off' with injecting the alternative thoughts. Stick with the program. Don't think outside of the box. At least that's pretty much what I read into it. But, what the hell do I know? lol

Don't rock the boat - ya might tip it and then what?!

Muh, whadaya gonna do?!

Over & out

March 23, 2010
9:42 am
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atalose
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sdesigns,

We must have posted at the same time, sorry I didn’t see your reply last night.. LOL

Yes mixin em all up, maybe will amount to 12 LOL LOL LOL

I certainly don’t believe anyone was shunned on this thread, and as Craigco mentioned it’s all subjective just like recovery is subjective……..what ever works and keeps your recovery boat afloat………….

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

March 23, 2010
11:07 am
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Lillabit
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Craigco. i know. you said it - "It's 'God's(HP's) way or the hi-way type of mentality with those folks and that just doesn't fly with a lot of people."

if you read the stuff from the bigbook i posted before.... they have agnostics n atheists saying that until they CONSIDERED a power outside themslef recovery was not possible. thats so helpless.

March 23, 2010
11:08 am
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Lillabit
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no atalose i dont think you shunned or corrected anyone. you have been very open n welcoming. thanx.

March 23, 2010
12:12 pm
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Lillabit
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sdesigns. i didnt mean to come across as contrary or disputing. i wanted to add to th thread. since i was the only one that didnt lol or agree at th original post i was pretty sure you were telling ME to lighten up. that i have to debate about everything n take a contrary point of view. ok u dont really know me and what i agree with or not but whatever.

i didnt realize these 12 steps of whatever was so sensitive a subject. so sacred to some. i dont agree that it works for everyone n i said that. AA has a 5% success rate n codependents say that they will b that way for life. whats' wrong with not agreeing with everyone i wanna know? isnt' it ok to have different opiniions. its ok with me. it doesnt have to be comsidered a debate or a dispute does it? can it be a discussion with different perspectives about the 12 steps to whatever kinda recovery without me being told i'm off topic n have a thread within a thread? or to lighten up?

i could start a new thread every time i see somthing i dont agree with or understand. but that seems kinda silly n exclusive. not direct. n to me that seems like it takes away from a conversation even more than a diff of opinion.

crystalwaters was the first to suggest this debate be taken to the other side even though i said im' sure it worked for some. like 5% i wasnt debating. maybe they thought they were? or maybe they wanted to debate me. i didnt post it on Libs cause i dont think anyone reads their. i dont read much on Liberation side cos theres not much to read their these days.

true i did start a new thread for the differing view. then people from the other thread posted in that one. not to comment bout the alternatives to 12 steps but how the 12 steps worked for them. strictly speaking we could say they were off my topic. that could b considered carrying the DISPUTE over to the new thread? but i didnt tell those people to get off that thread. im glad they repsonded. they were off the topic tho.

why didnt you correct THEM and tell them it was off topic n thats not why i started that thread?

im wondering about the validity comment you made to craigco. the validity of what? a tongue in cheek post? are you saying that what i posted is not valid?

i'm also wondering. how am i sposed to know that when someone posts something. that it is not meant "to invite dispute". or its not the right place to post? who decides that? who decides whats' necessary? do i just wait for someone to tell me? tell me what i should do? or should the person posting have a disclaimer saying i just wanted to post this please no one have a different opionion? like darkeyes said. it's still only someones opinion at the end of the day. there are different opinions all over the world bout all kinds of things. ive seen others come in n post irelavant stuff (at least to me) or stuff thats a lil off track in other threads n no one says boo about it. why did this bother you enuff to post to me?

March 23, 2010
3:38 pm
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sdesigns
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Hi Lillabit: I just skimmed thru your last post and have to say I don't read all threads and wouldn't have any idea what is said on every thread. I think I have said (SUBJECTIVELY) what I have to say and really don't think it needs dissection. I said my opinion, you don't have to agree, you can completely ignore me if you wish.

I couldn't possibly answer all of the questions you have. Maybe someone wiser and more objective than I could help you.

March 24, 2010
12:31 am
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Lillabit
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sdesigns. ok.

March 24, 2010
1:14 am
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Lillabit
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but sdesigns. do you really want someone else to answer questions to you for you? i asked you questions about what you said to me and aobut me on this thread. i asked you if you did not think what i posted was valid. i asked you why this bothered you enough to post what you did to me. do you not think you are wise nuff to know what you meant at the time? who do you think could be objective? I dont think its that you arent wise nuff. i think you just dont want to. but whatever.

March 24, 2010
11:36 am
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sdesigns
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Lillabit: You are beating a dead horse, my dear. You are making way too much of this, giving it way more importance than I did. I am not going to discuss this any further with you. I would have to review everything (of which there isn't very much), and what???translate? I'm a very direct person and say what I mean. If you didn't understand the first time, thats on you. NOW- I am done with this- get it? Understand??

sd

March 24, 2010
12:18 pm
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Lillabit
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sdesigns. yes yes i do understand. ttyl bye.

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