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Tez
January 24, 2001
12:42 pm
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Cici
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I just read about your father in the "Hey Everybody" thread. It must be pretty hard right now. I just wanted to say, be strong. You know it is those who are left behind who feel the pain of separation most keenly. I hope that you read this and know that. Good luck to you, I will be thinking about you and your father and praying for you both.

January 24, 2001
1:24 pm
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me too ... dito

January 24, 2001
3:31 pm
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Cici and Guest_guest.

Thanks for your very much appreciated thoughts.

My dad was in a very advanced stage of dementia and in a lot of pain. The doctors had him full of morphine. It was a blessing that he went so quickly in the end.

I have done most of my grieving for the loss of my father over a very long time. At the end my dad had the cognitions of a very small child. Consequently he was only a shadow of his former self.

Both of you know my attitude to the Catholic church. 🙂 Well... dad expressed his wish for a requiem mass for his funeral in his will. Well, as fate would have it the priest that said the mass was a stupid old twit. He turned the mass into a self aggrandisement exercise and a propaganda operation. He refused to let any rellies speak at the funeral for fear that "they would ego trip" - his words; AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID. He sprouted his own demented bullshit at every opportunity. Even when the mass was ended he opened a note book and started recounting trivia from his own life combined with more of the same old hoary catholic propaganda of yesteryear. It was the same drivel that I had force fed to me by the christian brothers - who once wielded the absolute power of the strap over me - many years ago!

In the middle of the priest's tirade, I jumped up, walked over to the coffin, patted it, and said loudly to my dad "good bye old mate" and walked within 10 feet of the jibbering twit and out of the church. A rellie ran out after me to try to smooth things over. I felt like sorting that priest out with a few home truths! But, in deference to my father's memory, it wasn't the time nor the place. I guess the twit thought that his 'wonderful oratory' has evoked emotions of grief that were beyond my control. In fact he provoked anger over the travesty that he made of the whole ceremony.

Thanks again for the your thoughts.

January 25, 2001
3:34 pm
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UG - my sympathies multiplied, Tez...what a stupid old twit (as you so aptly put it). In a way, it was good that you had already gone through the majority of the grieving process.

But, I'm still thinking of you and hope that things continue to move onwards and upwards, so to say.

January 25, 2001
5:17 pm
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Cici.

Thanks,mate. I'm feeling one hell of a lot better today. Almost back to my annoying, pretentious old self. 🙂

January 25, 2001
7:45 pm
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Tez,
IM sorry I had not heard your father had passed away. I know you said you did most of your grieving a long time ago but I know it still affects you in some ways. I pray your life is a little easier now without having to wonder how your father was doing in the home. My prayers are with you and IM glad your feeling better. I have missed chatting with you and hope to hear from you soon.
Take Care
Always
Bel

January 25, 2001
8:55 pm
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Even though you have delt with this over time, there is nothing like the reality of the what is, you are wise, you know the sun will rise tommorow, and you have learned to take one day at a time. There are several stages of grief, and your on the ride, so make it smooth. We are here for you. Again, peace, and dream less sleep to you, Love to you Molly

January 26, 2001
1:41 pm
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Tez,
my sympathies for you. And I'm very sorry that the funeral was not a good occation to say goodbye. But you were acting very considerate - I guess I would have gone into "scream and shout" mode. When my grandma died it was so hard to hear a recount of her life and what it might have meant for her and for us, the family given from an 'outsider' - even though the person giving the speech was very considerate (and not a priest - she left the catholic church one year before she died). But I guess you'll find better times and places for remembering and for goodbyes. I'm thinking of you. Eve

January 26, 2001
3:21 pm
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All.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Here's some food for thought. I rang one of my sisters who is a professional counselor a few hours after dad died. She told me that she had just taken some time off from her clients to sit in a park and meditate in an attempt to reach dad. She told me that dad was in a dark place, terribly confused, and lost. She said that he was asking for another sister (his favorite daughter). My sister told him to just wait patiently for someone to come for him.

After a some thought, I decided to at least try to help dad. I went into a deep meditation state and made contact with dad. I found him in a state just as my sister recounted. I asked him if he could see a light. He suddenly said that he could - with much excitement and relief. I told him to go towards the light. I felt his excitement at the feelings that he was having towards the light. He promptly said "I'm going now... thanks and goodbye".

After that, I came out of my meditation state. I started to wonder if I had made the whole thing up in my mind. At the funeral the next day, the same sister recounted that she had tried to contact dad a second time a few hours later, but he was no longer there. I recounted my experiences and it blew her mind. It seems that my meditation experience occurred before her second attempt to contact dad.

I don't know what to make of this. It certainly made me feel good to think that I had been able to free him from his confused state and facilitate his moving on. On the other hand the doubting, proof demanding, academic skepticism of my rational mind challenges this as being nothing more than a grieving mind seeking gratification by recourse to a powerful imagination.

What do you all think? Is there really life after life? No bible references please. 🙂

January 26, 2001
4:04 pm
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Yes Tez I truly TRULY TRULY BELIEVE that there is LIFE after this life.

And you'll see your da.

j-

January 26, 2001
4:27 pm
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Tez, please go to http://www.sylvia.org she is a world famous intutive/psychic who can help you understand that your dad lives on and in a much better way.
just read what she has to say about life after life.......
also, read any of james van pragues books, fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!
i WILL make you a believer yet friend.
i am praying that you and your father will always be together, pay attention to your dreams, our loved ones often come to us or have messages for us in our dreams. if you have a dream where you awake and it felt like you were actually in your fathers presence, in all likelihood you were, pay attention to what he said to you or how you felt. he also hears you when you speak to him, and prayers are appreciated, even in the afterlife, we should always continue to pray for our loved ones..even after they have "passed"
God bless you Tez and god be with you during this time of transition. (((((((Tez))))))))))

January 26, 2001
7:24 pm
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I believe, I believe, It was maybe all the morphine, that contributed to his confusion. I have had my dad visit on several occasions, and hadn't had a visit in a long while. My sis, was told by a psychic that my dad had reincarnated, and thus his absence. My mother in law, who does not support any of these concepts, had a visit from her husband the night of the funeral, they spoke. My daughter had a visit from the same man, who stated, that she needed to let him move on, she was very close to him, and she said go to the light Grandpa, he told her he saw it, and that was that. My mom passed in 2/98, nothing. In June of 98 on my sisters birthday, the last dress mom made for her, which she states was left in her ironing basket, was some how left hanging on her door ironed the day of her birthday, 6/5. Mom's ashes were left with my brother, we thought anyone who went to Hawaii next would take them and leave them there because that was the only good time we all could remember she had. Bro, got it that she needed to go into some river or lake he had passed. He never said a thing, until the next time we spoke, I told him that mom was all around me, for weeks every thing was about her, he said when did it start, I told him, he said you might not agree with my actions, but I got the urge to place her ashes in this river, on this date, the same time I felt her presence, what ever. I have heard so many stories, it just must be real, true, and it serves us, eh?
Acceptance is hard to those that question everything, I would like to think that it is real, not something that we manifest out of need. I might also add, that my spouse a true non believer, had a visit from my dad during our marital difficulties, it was hard for me to believe that it was not some sort of manipulation by my spouse, but what he related that my dad told him, was so my dad, that I don't think spouse could have been that smart, or creative.

January 26, 2001
8:02 pm
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Tez, I don't doubt that your Dad has gone on to a better place, but the mysticism you are asking me to believe is more of a stretch than the Roman Catholics even produce. Maybe your "meditative state" and vision were your own hearts way of taking care of your father one final time. Passing him on to other, eternal hands.

I hesitate to differ with you on this, because I would never want to deny you any comfort believing would bring. Still... I'm really surprised that you are willing to embrace this rather unscientific experience.

January 27, 2001
12:01 am
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Tez, my condolences for your loss.

Whatever we believe is out there, whatever we think happens to our souls, whatever makes us less scared to go into the great unknown, or release our loved ones into it, it's all a very personal thing. I'm feeling good for you that your meditation brought you some peace and ease of your pain. Grasp that peace, hold onto it real tight. Grieving doesn't end with the funeral, it's just the beginning. But if you believe in your meditation experience, than that's what's really important.

Nobody should try to dissuade you from what you believe happened.
NOBODY knows for sure.

I believe it's whatever gets you through the night that counts. It's all that matters in trying to cope.

When I lost my dad, I tried so hard to communicate somehow with him. He was the very first man I ever loved and treasured and we were very close friends for all of my life. I adored my dad, still do. But for the life of me, I never felt a connection once he was gone. Try as I did, it never happened.

Maybe it was one of those, "Hey God, I was waiting for a sign" and I just didn't see it. Don't know.
If the meditation helps you, believe it. Nobody can prove you wrong.

Peace and good vibes....

January 27, 2001
5:20 pm
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Ima.

You said, "the mysticism you are asking me to believe is more of a stretch than the Roman Catholics even produce. Maybe your "meditative state" and vision were your own hearts way of taking care of your father one final time. Passing him on to other, eternal hands."

Firstly, I didn't ask you or anyone else to believe anything.

Secondly, I said, " I don't know what to make of this. It certainly made me feel good to think that I had been able to free him from his confused state and facilitate his moving on. On the other hand the doubting, proof demanding, academic skepticism of my rational mind challenges this as being nothing more than a grieving mind seeking gratification by recourse to a powerful imagination."

Can you clearly differentiate between what you and I said? I can't. Both your statement and mine appear to be saying the same thing. It is such miscommunications that cause such difficulties in life.

I apologise for my part in the breakdown in this language usage process.

January 27, 2001
5:31 pm
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All.

Thanks for your responses, one and all....

There are too many to respond to immediately. I'll save them to my hard drive and read them carefully off line and try to get back real soon.

January 27, 2001
6:18 pm
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YOU HELPED YOUR FATHER PASS INTO THE LIGHT tEZ...

January 28, 2001
1:25 am
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Can Our Loved Ones on the Other Side Really See and Hear Us?

I am asked many questions each day regarding Spiritual issues - and I do have wonderful Ministers of my church available for free Spiritual counseling (just send an email to [email protected]). But the question posed above struck a cord of pathos within me similar to the answer of that often asked inquiry around Christmas time; "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Clause."

One reader, Mary Y., wanted to know if her departed mother could actually see her, hear her, and be close to her from the Other Side. "Yes Mary, God is all loving, all knowing, and all perfect. He allows everyone in His house to visit with us, see us, and hear us." On some occasions, they can even communicate with us.

The Other Side is simply another dimension, with the same topography as our world, in the same "place" as our world (raised above by 3 feet), but it operates at a faster vibration which our senses cannot detect. This is really not too strange, because all TV and radio signals operate in a similar way, where all stations co-exist in the same space but just operate at different frequencies. Yet our senses do not detect the TV signals, nor do the many signals interfere with each other, each signal is a separate world. So too is the Other Side, a separate world on top of our own, but we cannot "tune in" to its frequency. Or at least it is unusual to tune in, and if we do so accidentally, GHOSTS!

In the Old Testament Book of Kings you will find that the Witch of Endor is used to converse with the dead, so it seems to be okay at that point in the bible. So clearly there is no barrier to such communication from a biblical perspective. In fact, not only can we converse with our loved ones (usually a one-way conversation) but they actually walk among us with only a gossamer veil separating our two worlds.

On the Other Side you find stunning gardens, beloved animals, music centers, lecture halls, libraries, research centers, and anything else that one could possibly wish for. If it is desired, it can exist. If it is loved, it will be with you. Our true life waits for us on the Other Side, and it is filled with joyous, loving companionship and the presence of God.

We come to this planet to enter a very hard school - to learn the many harsh lessons of life that make you a better person. When we have completed our studies on Earth, graduation day as it were, we then get to go home to our real life with God on the Other Side.

I am always so surprised with people put human traits onto God. God is perfect. God is all love. Therefore He cannot be angry, mad, cross, or vengeful - all of which are imperfect states of being. Every person that makes the effort to live a good life will be allowed to enter the kingdom of God. Those who are not successful at first will get more chances to learn what it means to be a good person. Actions always speak louder than words, and just going to church every Sunday does not mean you are a good person.

Your loved ones can "appear" to you in many ways, but not very often as a visible figure. They could create a favorite smell around you (like my Dad makes the scent of his pipe), or suddenly you will think of a song that was significant to them, perhaps you will hear your name called faintly, a dream in which you meet them, or you will simply "feel" them around you. The more we speak with them aloud, and acknowledge that you sense them, the stronger they will become and it makes further communication easier. Since we are encouraged to speak with our angels and the saints, why is it odd to speak with our love ones who live with God?

Are our loved ones sad for us, or disturbed by our lives? No. They have a vastly enhanced knowledge of life, they see clearly why things are so hard, but they also know that it will all be over in mere moments. They have no sense of time as we do, so to them 80 years is like a few days. It is very much like a parent taking their child to get a shot. The kid screams for mercy, but you know that it is for their own well being and it will be over before they even know what happened. So our loved ones are fully content to wait for our return, while we are in basic training which I consider to be the very same "hell" we hear so much about. When we graduate this place we are reunited with everyone we love.

Every major religion teaches that the soul survives death. So why is there such a flap with "religious" people when you say, "I have seen a ghost." There is a logical breakdown here, if the soul survives death then of course you can see it on occasion.

My family history has many practicing mediums and psychics. In each generation the family traditions and theology have remained the same, we have all seen the same truth of the Other Side. Even the clergy that come to me for readings agree with the basics, God is love, the Holy Spirit protects us, and Christ/Buddha/Mohammed/etc are there to walk among us.

Be filled with joy Mary (and everyone else too), its all true - and God bless you and everyone who seeks answers, wonders about, and questions their understanding of God. Jesus told us to seek and find, knock for answers - he did not say we should follow blindly. I have never been psychic for myself, but this one thing I do know, I can talk with people who have passed over to the Other Side. Even my Dad who died almost four years ago, and other friends who graduated early, all say the same thing about the Other Side. Even people who nearly die and get to glimpse the Other Side will tell you the same basics as discussed here.

Your loved ones are gloriously happy living with God in the eternal home doing everything that their hearts desire. They see you, hear you, and sometimes speak with you. Talk to them, reach out to them, you may be pleasantly surprised when you feel them reaching back.

January 28, 2001
9:41 pm
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Tez, I'm not sure I understand the miscommunication, but I do understand that you were wondering and questioning. I hope you're finding lots of comfort and hope. Isn't it the job of our imaginations to help us make sense of stuff beyond our understandings?

January 29, 2001
10:40 am
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All I can say is that my own father died for about 5 minutes. He had a heart attack when I was about 11, and I remember knowing that he was dead...gray and lifeless, with eyes wide open and staring at nothing. My Mom, an RN, did the pre-cordial thump. There was a sickening crack as she cracked is sternum and broke 4 ribs, but it gave enough of an electrical impulse to re-start his heart. When I saw him in the hospital later that night, he asked why my Mom had brought him back. He had been abthed in light, filled with peace and in a place "with no pain, everyone was there".

Once, I was speed-balling with painkillers, ecstasy and alcohol. I was also (how intelligent of me) huffin nitrous oxide....if you've never huffed this substance, youwon't know what I'm talking about...usually you're overcome with euphoria and I always go into trance-like states where I see things that are at once distrubing and somehow very real to me, almost like seeing "The Truth". Well, I stopped breathing for a long time and peopel told me I turned blue and had open eyes, gray skin. I was slapped and punched and finally someone gave me mouth-to-mouth and I woke up. But I remember the same thing. Warmth, light, comfort...

January 29, 2001
4:29 pm
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Cici.

Yes, I've read quite a bit about NDE's and I've talked to several people who claim to have had them. I worked in a large hospital for 6 years and came across patients who wanted to talk about their NDE's. I find them very interesting indeed. I'm not sure what to think about them.

I've read three translations of the Bardo Thodol,the Tibetan Book Of The Dead and Dying; Sogyal Rinpoche's version being the last.

I've undergone past lives hypnotic regression and have supposedly been through a previous death (with the emotion suppressed by suggestion).

I've had some staggering experiences in deep meditation.

And I had discussions with atheistic men of science. The more I learn the more I realise how little I really know about anything for sure; especially my own experiences. It all seems to be a case of what one chooses to believe. But... belief is just belief; not a validation of the truth. Perhaps an open mind can be the welcome byproduct of much investigation and self-doubting.

I have my own beliefs; but I hold them tentatively. I am prepared to change them should I find glaring inconsistencies. I abhor using denial of apparent reality in the interests of emotional peace. It smacks of the tooth fairy.

What do you know about Dr Stan Grof and his techniques to access the 'deep unconscious'? It seems to me that he claims to have found a safe way of achieving the same effect as a drug induced 'disconnection' from the body.

January 30, 2001
5:24 am
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NDE
hmm. could this be the story:
jesus christ or other prophets come and tell people of the light and that angels are made of light and when we die, we go to them. so we go towards the light.

now there was a big question in the back of everyone's minds that whats gonna happen to us when we die?
when ppl heard of this light thing, this thing really releived some people of that question. they found releif that they would go to the light, to the 'nice' place when they would die.
i think tez said something like this, that whether all this he saw in his meditaion was real or a figment of imagination.
well it could be the figment, as he said. the light concept just satisfies our minds and gives peace to the disturbing mind that what will happen if we die.
grrrrr. why doesnt god just show himself here to everyone and just solve all the problems ???
hey god, u there?

January 30, 2001
7:52 am
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"Yes I am" (teasing teasing)

Well...........why doesn't God show himself? I think it would take a lot of the choice out of our lives.

I screw up a lot and would feel pretty inept with an omnipotent being just around the corner...and think what the media would do with that........

It boils down to FAITH (I personally think anyway)

"If ye have faith like a grain of mustard seed"

Beleiving...in anything...is a choice. EvenBuddhists have faith that Buddha existed...others that there was a Mohammed....and that Allah exists.

Many terrible things have been done "in God's (Allah's, etc.) name.

Faith hope hope and charity...the greatest of these is love.

January 30, 2001
9:51 am
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I was going to offer you a few words of comfort, but upon reading all your replies, you seem to have been inundated so I will leave you to ponder the fact that out there are absolute strangers who are willing to take the time to offer you support. Just dwell on this for a moment. "Them up there" must think you have obviously done something to deserve this help! Whatever you want to belive, believe, this is your right and this is what will give you support & comfort, let others have their beliefs, but hang on to your own.

January 30, 2001
3:29 pm
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Belief is just belief. Isn't it?

One of the paranoid schizophrenics I have been assigned to work with is covinced that he is a prophet. He has religious experiences and when he decompensates his visual hallucinatinos consist of demons and devils. Extreme religiousity is a common component of many schizophrenic dellusions. It's interesting because it made me think...

Are the brain deformations in the schizophrenic simply allowing them to see an alternate form of reality, and is the reason that they tend to harm others and themselves simply a product of living in a society that has no place for the mentally ill? A reflection of our own puritan self-hatred? Psychotic dellusions were accepted by Native American culture as access to the spirit world.

OR, have all the religious prophets, the authors of various scriptures and the books of the bible, the Koran, the Talmud, the Bhagavadgita...were they all schizophrenic? It's an old disease, documented as far back as civilization (from described symptomology)

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