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TC66 - how about those firemen?
February 11, 2006
8:08 am
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Elizabeth Anne,

Congratulations! 6 days of NC. That is great!

The cycle is SO HARD to break, isn't it? The problem I have had is that once I go an extended period of time without contact, I get a false sense of my own strength. I AM strong, but I am still very vulnerable to HIM and the effect he can have on my heart, my emotions and my self-esteem. He is the chink in my armor. The only way I can REMAIN strong, unfortunately, is by staying away from him. I see this now and it is a sad realization.

Remember Elizabeth, Nothing changes if nothing changes!!! You are doing great. Just be prepared for the inevitable future contact and for the reactions you are planning to have to it and the changes you are willing to make to yield different results. It's hard, but nothing worth having comes easy (I don't think)...

Hugs to you,

TC

February 11, 2006
8:17 am
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lollipop3
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Hi tc,

It it amazing to me how much reading your posts reminds me of myself. Seeing that makes me understand why support groups work so well. It is so VALIDATING to realize that you are not crazy. Or that you do not expect too much. Or that you are not too serious.

You asked: "I just wonder why we need for THEM to let US go??? "

For me, the answer is good ole' fashioned fear.

I am afraid that I will never be loved. I am afraid that no one will ever accept me for who I really am. I am afraid that because of my own "issues" that I am the problem and I will never be happy. I am afraid because I have an STD and can no longer use alcohol as a means to numb the pain of rejection. I could go on and on...but the point is ....I am afraid.

Ya know tc....at this point, I don't even think I want it work out with him anymore. For so long I wanted so badly for him to change and become the man I wanted him to be. But at this point, I think so much damage as been done that I just don't feel the same about him anymore. Don't get me wrong, I do care about him and in some ways I still love him, but too much damage has been done. Yet, even feeling the way I do, I don't know that I have to strength to completely end this.

I have been trying the "inner child" work that Kathy has talked about so often. Not quite to the same extent but trying it non the less. I have told my "inner child" that I will no longer allow anyone to abuse her. Believe it or not, doing something as simple as that has given me a renewed strength. Strength in the sense that I am one of those people that if I say I'm going to do something....I do it. So now I've gone and obligated myself. And even though we are basically talking about a figment of my imagination (my inner child), I still think I will feel guilty if I let her down. The truth of the matter is that I will be letting myself down.

When the time comes, my statement to him will be very simple. "I've decided that I'm not gonna let you put me down anymore".

I"m glad that I have you here for support tc.

NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES!

Love,
Lolli

February 11, 2006
1:08 pm
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2bstrong
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This is such a good thread...there is a lot of wisdom here.

I have to say, that this struck me today:

***I just wonder why we need for THEM to let US go??? Why can't we be the ones to say "Enough is enough"???***

In most all of my "significant" relationships, I have been unable to walk away. Even though I would journal about how it wasn't what I wanted, or knew in my gut that it just wasn't going to work out in the long run--I could not end it. As many of you know, this happened very recently to me as well, and I started to compromise my wants and needs to hold on to the relationship. He ended it, and let me just say, IT SUCKS. It sucks to experience the feelings of rejection, it sucks to know that you will never hear from them again. It sucks to not know what they are doing, or how they are doing. For us code's, it can be a pain equal to, or worse than physical pain.

But, I do believe that there is hope in experiencing the withdrawals of letting go. In grieving, it's a necessary cleansing and rebuilding. It would be the same for the ending of a relationship.

It's been ten and a half months since the end of my relationship with my fiance. We were together for ten and a half years. I am finally getting to the point where I "don't miss" him. I miss things that we did, but I do not miss HIM. I miss the life that we had, but I do not miss him. I never, ever thought I would be able to say that. I have even lately been repulsed by thoughts of our intimate times together. I hope I don't sound weird, but it's true.

NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES.

February 11, 2006
1:45 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi guys,

You know what else I am afraid of.....I am afraid that I am going to get worse than what I have now.

Perhaps I need to stay away from here for awhile. I don't know. It just seems that the more I read about some of the awful things that some people here have endured , the more I try to convice myself...maybe he isn't so bad after all. I think to myself... Yes, he's emotionally unavailable, immature, and occationally verbally abusive....but he has a job, he's clean, he's neat, he's never laid a hand on me, he doesn't cheat, he doesn't drink or do drugs(anymore), he doesn't use pornography, he doesn't go to strip clubs, he's very complimentary (when he's not being an asshole), he doesn't belch, he doesn't fart, he gets along with my family, he buys me nice things (of course not when I want him to, like my b-day for instance), etc. etc. etc.

But can I ACCEPT that he is emotionally unavailable, there is no intimacy, we cannot talk about the future, he is verbally abusive when he doesn't get his way, and he is not interested in me?

No, I cannot.

BUT WHAT IF I END UP WITH SOMEONE WHO IS THE SAME BUT DOES NOT HAVE ALL OF THOSE REDEEMING QUALITIES?????

Yes, I am afraid.

February 11, 2006
1:53 pm
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mj
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Hi,

What an honest heartfelt post! I am reading a book that states we pick individuals who are at our similar position of intimacy. It's called Passionate Marriage. You might want to check it out. It states that we need to grow our selves! I am learning so much. Its not for the sexual squimish.

February 11, 2006
4:07 pm
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Lolli,

I understand what you mean about reading the very EXTREME posts on this board. There are some very bad men out there and I have also seen myself grateful that I only hooked up with a "commitmentphobe" and not a pedophile, a porn or heroin addict, a serial cheater or a wife beater! It can cloud the mind a bit and make us be almost THANKFUL that our guys are only being "subtly" mentally abusive and "mildly" emotionally unavailable and only physically neglectful "sometimes"! It's like we want to kiss their feet for NOT beating the living crap out of us!!!

It is a WRONG way to think!! Yes, there are BAD men out there. No doubt. There is also a wide range (a sliding scale) of BAD. There should not be a distinction. Bad is bad!!!! We have to believe that there are GOOD ones too!!!! We cannot hold on to the bad egg because we fear there is nothing better out there for us. Truth is, how will we ever know if we don't get out and figure it out???

I want to be treated well! All the time!!! I want to be loved... fully, unconditionally and consistently!!!! I don't want to live in fear that the rug is going to be pulled out from under me at any moment. It is like walking through your entire life on egg-shells!!

I am tired. I am emotionally drained! I cannot believe that a man would claim to LOVE me... yet not fight for me!!!!! I want to be worth the fight!!!!! I am sooooo tired of saying to him "This is it! I can't do this anymore. It's over!!!" Only to have him say... "OK, if that's what YOU want"... WHAT????? What about "NO, T- I LOVE you! It would break my heart to lose you!!! I'll do whatever is necessary to save our relationship!!!????" Hugh??? What about that response?? Why am I NOT WORTH THAT RESPONSE?????

This happened again today. I cried again!!! I said "WHY are you so willing to let me go????!!!" He said "I never said that. You know how I feel. I do want to be with you. I told you that I needed to work through some "stuff" first." I said "I've been patient! I've waited! I want to be with you now! Every day that goes by, every Holiday that passes, every night that I sleep alone, I ache for you. Don't you understand that? Don't you care? Why is it all about you??? You SAY you love me and you want to be with me, but you have shown absolutely NO actions to back up your words!!. WHY WILL YOU NOT FIGHT FOR ME? I have run out of patience and I cannot do this anymore. If you loved me, you would NOT let me walk away!!!"...
sob, sob, sniff, sniff..."

"Oh, T- Don't cry again. See, this is why I can't talk to you". HE DID NOT TRY TO TALK TO ME. I talked and talked and talked and talked. He did a bunch of "double-talk" and I cried. That was our interaction. This was after my big pep-talk on this board... Ya know, NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES!!! Blah, blah, blah! Then I went ahead and had the SAME conversation with him, AGAIN!!! Nothing changed because NOTHING CHANGED!!! Point proven!!!

I keep thinking that I am going to find a way to re-phrase things in a way that will make the lightbulb go off in his head. He'll say "Hey, if I don't sh*t or get off the pot I am going to lose the best thing that's ever happened to me!!!"

He HAS said that he's afraid to lose me, but obviously not enough to step up and FIGHT!! He just throws his hands up and says "Oh well..."

Ugh!!!!! I have so many emotions right now. I feel like I am going to explode. I am angry, I'm hurt, I'm lonely, I'm scared. I feel rejected, frustrated, un-appealing, sad and worthless.

Half of my anger is directed at him and the other half, at myself for GIVING so much of myself to him. I gave, gave, gave!! I held back at times, but I always made sure that he knew that my heart still belonged to him. I did not want to make him "insecure". God forbid!!!!! Did he care about my feelings when I felt insecure????????? No.

2b, this is what I was talking about when I said that you are lucky that you did not give ALL of yourself to the Doctor. You reserved a good portion of yourself for yourself. I feel like I gave him ALL of me!!! Sometimes I feel like there is nothing left. I know I'm being dramatic. I'm just feeling really low right now.

The other sad thing is that after we hung up, I started to wonder if it was ME? Am I just being selfish and impatient?????? Am I losing someone that loves me because I am unable to give him the space he needs to work through his issues??? NO!!!! No, NO, NO!!!! People that LOVE each other work through their issues TOGETHER. They do not shut each other out!!! Right?? Am I the crazy one???? Should I just shut up and wait... go away until HE is ready?????

No!!! God, What is wrong with me?? How could I even think that way??? My gut tells me that his "stuff" is another woman that he is trying to let down easy. He's been being less than honest with her too!!!! He's being an a$$-hole to her so that she'll dump him, then he's not the BAD GUY!!!! OMG!!!! I feel insane today. Why would I consider waiting for someone that went and got himself involved with another woman while keeping me waiting on the sidelines. Technically, he never cheated on me because we were "broken up"... so he does not feel like he's done ANYTHING wrong! Again, I feel insane!!!

Sorry to ramble! Bad day.

TC

February 11, 2006
4:51 pm
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lollipop3
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(((TC)))),

You are right on every count.

Bad is Bad. Even if the abuse I (we) endure is not as severe as others, it is still abuse and it is wrong. I guess I was just letting my fear get the best of me for a while there.

You are right in that we deserve to be loved consistantly, not just when they feel like it. We deserve to be treated with respect at all times, not just when they feel like it. We deserve to have our feelings mean something to someone (besides ourselves :).

I thought a lot about this today after I posted about my fears and whether or not I could stay with him.

The reason that I cannot stay with him is because I have a dream. I have a dream about how I want my life to be. I want to be married. I want to buy a house with my husband. I want to have a child. I cannot and will not do these things with him. I cannot marry someone and have a child with someone that I cannot communicate with. I cannot and will not have a child with a man who has no problem putting someone down and destroying their self esteem to get what he wants. I cannot and will not buy a home with someone who has lied to me about and refuses to discuss finnaces with me. I cannot and will not marry, buy a house or have a child with someone who does not have my or my child's best interest at heart.

So there it is in a nutshell. I cannot fulfill my own life's dream with this person. And I refuse to give it up for someone who is willing to destroy me emotionally just because he is too much of a coward to take an honest look at himself.

As I said in another post.... We only come this way once and I'm not going to continue to waste it on someone that is unwilling or unable to receive it.

Thank you tc....your post reminded me of how I DON'T want to feel anymore.

Love,
lolli

February 11, 2006
5:42 pm
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elizabeth anne
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TC66
Stop doing what doesn/t work.
If you can emotionally detach yourself from him you may understand it is not your problem, it is their problem and they will have to find their own solutions.
I know it is very painful to understand, believe me I know it is. I feel your suffering and it feels like a nightmare that will never end. If you want to hold on, then work on you. What do you want to do for yourself. He knows you love him.
He needs time to realize you are not the problem. By emotionally detaching perhaps when he can approach you with answers, let him do the talking and listen to what he has to say.
I am so sorry you are hurting right now. It is such a rollercoaster that ravages the soul and the heart.

For me personally I have seen the patterns one to many times and as a result our relationship has been forever altered.

Now for the first time I refuse to get sucked back in. I need to know why it hasn/t worked for us. Perhaps it is things I could have done differently and perhaps it is things he could have. Whatever the case. I need some distance to figure out what changes I want for myself. How am I going to do that if I am emeshed in a relationship that is not working.

I need more emotional growth and will seek counseling as a result. Because if I don/t then perhaps I am only setting myself to be hurt over and over again and frankly it is not something I enjoy. I dislike what it does to me.

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