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TC66 - how about those firemen?
January 31, 2006
7:42 am
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Geez Tra!!! Why don't you just take the words off the computer screen and beat me over the head with them!!!!! I get it now!

I guess I'm not a real "detail" gal. I say the words and I know what they mean in my head, but you're right... I should stop using "YOU" statements. It does tend to put people on the defensive. I've noticed that it does take the focus off of what I'm saying because the recipient is not really listening to what I'm saying after they feel "attacked". They have stopped thinking about me and how I feel and are more focused on desperately trying to figure out a way to defend themselves. You're right... again!!!! All hail, The great and powerful Turnabout! I'm being overly dramatic, I know (very unlike me, isn't it??)... but I do appreciate your honesty and your willingness to tell me the truth even when you think that telling me what you think MAY throw me into self-righteous, defensive, Hot headed Italian hissy fit!!!!!

I must be growing up. I am totally NOT having a fit right now. Go figure!!!!

Anywho... Update... I got a call from him this morning. He said he hasn't been feeling well. Has been in bed for days (not surprised) and that's why I haven't heard from him.

I had a really good weekend and did not contact him at all. I did send him a msg yesterday about something unrelated to "us"... but that was it.

This morning, I was on the treadmill with the music blasting so I didn't hear the phone ring. He left a msg... He wants to see me... He sounded a little bit nervous. He was sort of tripping over his words. "Maybe, I can see you tomorrow or tonight or something???"

Tomorrow is the night that my kids' go with their Dad so I'll probably tell him that Wednesday works for me... That's all. I'm not reading too much into this right now. We've got a loooong road ahead of us so I am not jumping ahead. One step at a time. I've got to go and get ready for work. I'll chat more later.

TC

January 31, 2006
5:01 pm
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I just got home from work. I have been thinking about him wanting to see me. I've been thinking about how those words made me feel. I listened to his message about 4 times. It was very sweet and he sounded very sincere and vulnerable. He truly is a twisted up emotional mess! He was trying really hard to sound up-beat to make me feel comforted and assure me that his not calling me for a few days has NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with his health. He made a little joke at the end of the msg and it made me smile. I felt warm and fuzzy towards him. It reminded me of how close we once were and how we were able to read each others moods without saying a word. It made me want to wrap my arms around him and hold him close.

Soooooo... that was this morning. Fast forward 9 hours. I am afraid to speak to him. I didn't respond to his msg because I fear that the person I will get on the phone will NOT be the same person that called this morning. I'm afraid to open up to him only to be disappointed AGAIN!! I'm afraid to let my guard down. I'm afraid that he may not be 100% ready for a relationship with me, but he is going forward with it out of fear of losing me forever (You know... I think I threw that threat out there once or twice)... I haven't threatened in a MEAN way. I've simply said that I do not wish to be a source of anxiety and pressure for him... that if he does not want the same things out of life that I do, that it is OK... I'm willing to walk away. I will love him always but I understand if he is not able to give me what I want and I wish him only the best (that was last Thursday).

After that, he pulled the "disappearing act" and just re-surfaced this morning (Tuesday). I do not want to force him to do anything that he does not want to do. It really bothers me that he has placed so much pressure on US!!! I just want to have a good time! I want him to think of me smiling and laughing when he thinks of me... I don't want him to feel suffocated or frightened.

I NEED to demand that he seek professional help in order for us to be back together. Otherwise, this cycle will never end. I don't want him to think that I'm telling him he's a NUT-CASE or anything. I just want us to grow together in a healthy way....

I am the one putting off talking to him right now. I do not want to get back together with him, only to break up again in 6 months! I don't think I could physically or emotionally handle that again. I'm going to do some heavy thinking about this tonight!

TC

January 31, 2006
5:54 pm
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TC - I wouldn't see him. Like you said, he is an twisted-up emotional mess.

You can't DEMAND that he seek professional help any more than he can expect you to put up with his on again/off again relationship he seems to want with you.

I know it's hard, believe me, but how many times have you told me to walk away from my ex and accept the fact that he just isn't ready for the type of relationship I want? I'm sure he loves you, but sometimes love just isn't enough. I've learned that the hard way.

If he truly wants a relationship with you that will last, he will seek help on his own WITHOUT any demands from you. That's really the only way he can change. He has to admit he's got a problem and WANT to receive help.....otherwise it's back on the rollercoaster.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but please, please think long and hard about getting on this ride again.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}

January 31, 2006
8:45 pm
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This time he's wanting to see you. Do want to hear what he has to say? Can you live W/OUT hearing it?

Your trepidation is natural and healthy. He has not been consistent, and wanting to see you after a period of distancing himself is part of the inconsistency.

You know even if you've given ultimatums (but not in a MEAN way ;^) HeHe -- no, of course not in a mean way. You love the bastard!), you aren't tied to them like signing your life away for indentured servitude. You still get a choice. If you are significantly afraid of getting deeply involved w/ him (And who wouldn't be? I would.) you must take care of those concerns. You do not NEED him to do anything for you ... you do not NEED him to get therapy (ditto to HSB)... What you NEED is to do is take things at a pace and keep them at a level that is comfortable for YOU. Radical idea, isn't it?

He has lost a lot of your trust, TC. You have to honor that and not put yourself in a position where you're FORCING yourself to trust him. You also care for him a great deal and feel "punished" (borrowing from myself again. sheesh!) when you cut him out of your life. So what you NEED to ask yourself is how YOU can achieve a feeling of balance in this relationship completely independent of his choices. What do YOU need to do in order to feel safe with him? How do YOU need to limit your contact with him in order to enable that?

February 1, 2006
9:15 am
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Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I just figured out what my problem is lately. I'm stepping out of my "co-dependent" mold and finally taking care of ME! It feels completely un-natural and wrong so I'm questioning my own emotions!!

I KNOW what the truth of our relationship is. There are no secrets, mysteries or hidden agendas. It is what it is! The questions that I am struggling with are "Is this all there is?" and if yes, "Is it good enough for me?"

It scares me when I think NO, it's not. I want more! I guess it's my own insecurity and childhood wounds bubbling up to the surface telling me that I should be grateful for any bit of attention that I get and I should happily grab up those crumbs without appearing ungrateful or "selfish" (Ugh... GOD FORBID!)...
It's almost like the old saying "Beggars can't be choosers"... but, I am NOT a beggar! I am a great catch and I CAN be a chooser, dammit!!!

I need to clear out those old negative recordings I have playing in my head and see myself the way others do!!!

It's so difficult to let go of perceptions you've had your ENTIRE LIFE!!! Difficult, yes. Impossible? NO!!!!

I need to do it. Over these past several months, I have not only cried for my ex and felt sorry for myself... I have also had a fabulous time getting to know ME. I've enjoyed my time alone and have done a great bit of travelling. I took the kids' to Canada and New Hampshire, plus took a solo trip to Orlando with friends I JUST MET (in a very unconventional way)! It was not something I would typically do, but I trusted my intuition and instinctively felt that these people were meant to be in my life and it was one of the best things I've ever done!!! It was very liberating. I had a BLAST and made some of the best friends I've ever had. Would any of this had happened if ex and I had stayed together. Absolutely not.

My sadness brought me to a place where I met some fabulous people (all of you!)... and I wouldn't trade it for anything. It all happened the way it was supposed to. It was fate. Now, I need to figure out what the next road I'm supposed to take is...

Perhaps my trepidation is a sign that it is not right? Perhaps that is NOT the road I am supposed to go down????? I need to think this through.

He called last night. Wanted to see me the next night (tonight), BUT did not come out and invite me out. It was very "non-commital"... asking me what I was doing and saying he'd like to meet me there for dinner"... MEET ME THERE??? That really rubbed me the wrong way. If he wants to see me, he needs to work harder than that!!!! I was exhausted and did not feel like getting into an argument, so I simply said "I don't know. I need to sleep on it. I'll talk to you tomorrow".

I'm sure he was shocked that I didn't jump up and down with joy over his half-hearted, lame-o dinner invitation. But, it's just possible that it is a little to little, a little too late...

I've got some thinking to do....

TC

February 4, 2006
6:45 pm
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Hey girls - I'm finally back. I was in Las Vegas for a week, at a trade show. I was taking a bit of a break before the trade show, but I'm back posting here and there.

tc - SOOO SO sorry that I didn't follow up with a more detailed post, when I promised to a few days back... I've just been swamped with work... no excuses though because I truly do care what is going on with you and that damn firefool. I hate this pushing and pulling thing that you guys constantly go through - but honestly, you'll know when you've had enough, and you'll bow out when that time comes. One thing that I can tell you for sure, is that until you change your game plan, this thing will play out exactly the way it has been, indefintely. It's going to take some major catalyst to get that man to change - but time and your patience has been preventing that catalyst from jumping right on his back and wrestling him to the ground. So far, the two of you have been far too predictable to one another. One pulls away, the other takes the bate - and then the roles reverse.... just like you said, "lather, rinse, repeat." From what I can see, he's not the one who is going to be strong enough to change this game up - you are going to have to do the changing. You sound as though your patience is running out, which is good. You need to get to the point that you are REALLY and truly tired of this game before you can detatch from it... otherwise, your attempts at not answerng his messages for a couple days is just part of the same game that you both have been playing all along... it's bait, just like the bait that he throws out there for you. You know all this, TC, you're smart.. but you're also in love, which makes this change that you need to make so difficult. Eight months is a long time to wait for him to take an actual step towards a committed relationship with you. You may have to go with the no contact option, to put a stop to this torment. But only do it for yourself. Don't do it in hopes that it will be the catalyst that will provoke that change in him that you've been waiting for... do it only for you. You've tried the untimatums, the sweet and patient approach, the silent treatment... and you've gotten some pretty good promises... but still no action. I keep remembering how you felt when you thought that he was really coming back for good.... you sort of panicked and really started to consider the issues that you two were really going to face together. So my question to you - is all of this waiting and struggling, really going to be worth the relationship that you two will have? Or have you just become so comfortable playing this game, that the thought of being without it leaves you feeling a little empty? I'm just throwing things out there for you to think about, and not accusing you of feeling one way or another. I just feel that you have SO much to offer - I love your personality and your humor - and I feel that you may have wasted these priceless attributes on the wrong guy. It may be time to truly re-evaluate your wants and needs, and move in the direction that will ultimately fulfill those needs. Be realistic - you have way more to offer than what you've been given.

I've gotta run, but will check back later. Hope you're having a good weekend. :o)

February 6, 2006
1:23 pm
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Hello everyone. I'm here with an update on the little mini drama that I affectionately call MY LIFE...

Well, I met him last Wednesday night(against my better judgement). I was extremely high strung before I even got there. We had a bit of a disagreement on the phone that night and I was not sure if I even wanted to go. I wanted it to be important to him! I wanted him to make MORE of an effort to see me (not the lame "meet ya there" crap). I was stubborn... he was MORE stubborn... I dug my heals in, and he dug his in DEEPER!!!!! It took about an hour (of extreme frustration and upset on my part) for him to SAY THE WORDS. That's all I wanted! To hear the damn words! He finally did say that he missed me and was really looking forward to seeing me, but I was THEN upset that it had to come down to that. Why did I have to pull it out of him? Why couldn't he just offer it up, KNOWING that's what I needed to hear?? I'm still confused about that whole power play, but I did go... I should have just stayed home that night. I should have known that it was NOT going to end well because of the foul mood I was in.

I was tense at first... then after about an hour, I had loosened up a bit and we started laughing and joking. It was nice. It felt good and natural to be with him. THEN... he told me that his Mother (who he has major issues with) had told him that she would no longer take care of his dog for him while he worked the overnight shifts. (He works 2 overnight shifts in a row and the dog cannot stay home alone). When we were together, the dog always stayed with me. I loved him like he was one of my own children!!! I'm not kidding. He is the sweetest, cuddliest, gentlest dog I have ever met!!! When we were together and sitting on the couch together, the dog would always come over to my side and cuddle in MY lap! Ex would get really upset by that (but I loved it)... Ex even called me "Mommy" when talking to the dog about me. He'd say "Go see Mommy!" "What does Mommy have for you?", etc...

Anyway, when we broke up, it took me a long time to get over losing the dog (as well as the ex). I missed him terribly. Sooooo... When he told me that his mother was no longer going to take the dog for him, I naturally thought he'd ask me to do it. I waited. Nothing. Then I said "Who's gonna take care of Doggie?". "I don't know" he said. OUCH!!! I felt like a knife had been stuck into my heart. It hurt so bad that he didn't ask me. Maybe I over-reacted, but I was already upset about the whole chain of events that led up to us getting together that night anyway, so this just pushed me over the edge. I knew I was going to start to cry so I said I had to go. I broke out into the "ugly cry" before I even got to my car... I didn't want to talk. He gave me a hug and I said I needed to get home. He called me when I got home and said "I didn't want tonight to turn out like this. I didn't want you to cry". I said "I know, but I don't want to talk right now"...

He had asked me if I'd help him prepare his tax return this weekend. I didn't follow up with him because I didn't want him to think that I was using it as an excuse to see him. So, I didn't mention it. He worked over the weekend, but was off on Sunday, so he called and asked if I'd be free to do his taxes that morning. I said yes.

We spent three hours together. We did the taxes and it was actually fun. We laughed a lot. That's what it's like when we are together. We can make anything fun. Even taxes! After that, we snuggled on the couch and kissed. It was nice. It felt good.

I didn't bring up any "heavy" issues because I just wanted for us to enjoy our time together... so that's what we did. He was leaving and he said "How do you feel?"... I said "I don't know"... He said "No, really T, I want to know how you are feeling right now". I said "I don't know what to feel. How do YOU feel?". He said "I feel good. I feel happy." He gave me the biggest, tightest, warmest hug. I whispered "I love you". He said "I love you too"...

That was it. He msg'd me a few times since then but I went out last night, so I didn't give him very long, involved responses. I'm scared to let my guard down, so I'm not. Not completely anyway...

Thanks for the support guys! I appreciate you all hanging in there with me. I'm sure it must be frustrating at times to sit back and watch things unfold (like an accident waiting to happen)!!!

Shaney, Las Vegas, huh??? How FUN was that????? Yeah, sure it was "business", but did you sneak in any gambling or Shows???? I've never been to Vegas but I hope to someday. I recently learned how to play Texas Hold 'em and I've gotta say, I'm hooked!!! It's so much fun! How's everything with your guy?? Anything new?

I'll talk more later...

TC

February 6, 2006
4:05 pm
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Tc...

I feel so down and out right now, I don't know if what I say will help you, but I'm just here to offer encouragement, so here goes...

I feel that this man truly loves you...he has classic commitment issues/fears. I don't want to say that he's phobic, but he is afraid. If you can get him to share with you about these fears, then it seems that it would do you both some good. I wish I had asked Doctor what he was afraid of when he told me he was afraid (on more than one occasion.) I wonder if they tell us these things because they WANT us to ask them questions?

The rub is, though that it has to be in his comfort zone. You've learned a lot in this past month or so, TC. You've learned new ways to communicate with him--use the tools that you've acquired.

It sounds as if you've relaxed a bit, TC, in spite of all the drama you've been through with him...I sound like a broken record BUT he sees that in you, and it is very attractive to him.

Shaney! I haven't read your whole post--but thanks for letting me pop in to your thread. You are such a good hostess!--2b

February 6, 2006
5:22 pm
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(((TC)))),

My goodness we are living the same life aren't we.

Reading your story sounds so much like reading my own. I wish these men would either sh$# or get off the pot if ya know what I mean. In my own situation, I wish that he would just tell me everything I want to hear (meaning that he will GROW UP AND COMMUNICATE AND HAVE A REAL RELATIONSHIP) and JUST DO IT, or tell me honeslty, we are just too different so we can go our separate ways.

I just can't stand the telling me that we want the same things, only to do the exact opposite.

In other words, EITHER GROW UP OR MOVE ON!

Yours sounds so similar to mine. I wonder about the dog. If that was my b/f, there is no question in my mind that he WOULDN'T ask to me take care of the dog, even though he wanted me to. BUT, if "I REALLY LOVED HIM", I would have known that he really wanted me to take care of it and should have offered....he shouldn't have had to ASK me.

Now, I may have just put an idea in your head...and I if did, let me say this......DO NOT OFFER TO TAKE CARE OF THAT DOG! If he wants you to, he is grown man and he can ask you.

That is a lesson that I have been trying to "teach" my grown b/f for two years. Even if I know exactly what he is hinting at....I won't bite. He gets so mad when I don't but I always tell him....I am not a mind reader...if you need something...ask. He still doesn't....which is why I'm still complaining that we don't communicate. Oh well, his loss.

Anyway, TC...just wanted to let you know that I am here and I understand.

Love,
Lolli

February 6, 2006
11:23 pm
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I agree w/ what Lolli is alluding to. You were upset he didn't ask, but it sounded like a big ol' HINT to me!

Hope that makes you feel better, but that being said, he's a grown man. He should know how to ASK for what he wants.

Funny how this keeps w/ the pattern, isn't it? You keep trying to draw out of him what he wants on the deep, emotional issues, even if may not be what you want to hear. But he resists giving you what you NEED to hear for fear of not giving you what you WANT to hear (and thereby assuring his own rejection).

So, he's afraid of asking you to watch the dog, b/c of the strain between you two, you may not WANT to be asked. LOL... sorry, I have to laugh at the poor chump.

Keep us posted!
TraCo

February 8, 2006
3:42 pm
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Hey tc, saw where you popped in. How are you today?

Busy night ahead for me. Yoga after work; Rehearsal after yoga. If you don't get me before 5pm CST, you're not getting me until prob'ly after 10. Sorry I missed you last night. Took the folks out to eat. I wish we could IM, too.

TraCo

February 9, 2006
11:49 am
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Hi all,

I had Poker night with the girls last night. We get together once a month and play Texas Holdem'. I lost, but had fun. Just thinking, Poker is actually a good metaphor for my life. It's all a HUGE gamble! You place bets based on the cards you HOPE will come up! You can have pocket ACES (which in Poker is a very good hand)... go "All IN" (which means that you put ALL of your chips in the middle of the table for a bet, hoping for a few more cards that will give you the winning hand)... ONLY to have the person next to you come out of no-where and steal it all out from under your nose!!!!! You've now lost all of your money and you're out of the game!!!! It's unfair! It's a gamble and sometimes you lose (In poker and in life)!!! Not to mention BLUFFING!!!! I am an expert on the "bluff" lately!

I haven't intentionally been bluffing with the ex-bf but, ya know what? I have been. I've been ALL talk! I've threatened and threatened to walk away IF this, and IF that, and unless this, unless that... Bluff!!!! He hasn't come through and I haven't done a damn thing about it!!!!!

I am soooo pissed at myself!!! I am feeling really down lately. I blew up at him again last night. Why? Because I had run out of patience. I was sick and tired of waiting!!!! He still said he wanted to be with me, but there have been no actions to make that happen(unless you count him coming over my house on Sunday so that I could do his taxes for him... and sucking face with me for an hour...). We had a nice time... but then I didn't hear from him AT ALL the next day. It hurt me. I went 24 hours and stewed in my own insecurity, fear and anger!!!! Then the next day...I started with the little jabs. The little threats and the little "bluffs"... He wasn't playing into it, so last night I totally EXPLODED!!!!! Tears, screaming, name calling... you name it!!!!! It was awful!

I was afraid to post because I didn't want to hear a bunch of I told ya so's!! I feel like such a fool for believing him AGAIN!!!!! Why can he NOT follow through with his promises??? Why does he get paralyzed with fear the minute we begin getting closer??? I don't want to analyze him anymore. I want to take care of ME! I was getting so much stronger and now I feel like I'm back down in the same place I was a few months ago. I am so sad. It makes me feel so worthless that he can shut me out when he doesn't feel like dealing with me. It makes me feel angry that I keep allowing him to hurt me!!!! It breaks my heart that he does not find me worthy of FIGHTING for!!!! Why??? Why will he not swallow his own pride to prove his love to me???? Why is it that I keep hanging in there showing my un-conditional love support for him while he does nothing but TAKE???? What is it that is missing in ME that makes me feel that is all I deserve???? I must have more than a few screws loose!!!

I know that I need to break the cycle. I know that "nothing changes if nothing changes" and if Dr. Phil asked me "How's THAT workin' for ya?"... I'd have to say "Not too well, Phil" and you know what he'd say? "So, stop doin' it". Oh, ok. Sounds simple, doesn't it??

It really is. I feel like such a weakling for not being able to do it. I am in such an addictive pattern with him. The push/pull is taking it's toll on me. I can't believe I cried over him again. I thought I was cried out.

I don't really want advice. Just needed to vent really. I know what I must do...

Thanks for listening. 🙁

TC

February 9, 2006
12:25 pm
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Hi TC,

That's how I feel most often. Not really looking for advice....just needing to let it out. I know what I need to do as well, I just need to do in my own way, in my own time.

I have had no contact for 1 week. If he never calls, I know I will be okay. It's when he does call that's the problem.

Anyway, vent away my friend.

Love,
Lolli

February 9, 2006
1:00 pm
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{{{{{HUGS TC}}}}}

February 9, 2006
1:16 pm
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Hey TC :o)

It's not you - keep remembering that - because I hate to see you struggling with the thoughts that you could have done something differently in order to provoke some sort of change or reaction in him. He knows how wonderful you are, that's why he keeps hanging around. Your only weakness is that you have fallen in love with his potential - which we ALL do... we're all weak in that way. You'll be just fine as long as you use all of your strength and that priceless sense of humor to rise above this low. This is only temporary so KNOW that there are good things ahead for you TC! We're here for you! Love - Shaney

February 10, 2006
11:32 am
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TC--How are you doing today? Did you have a good evening?

Breaking habits of any kind is a challenge--I know that I'm just stating the obvious here. When someone is telling you that they love you, it gives you hope. I'm struggling since the end of my recent relationship. I keep remembering all of the things that he would say to me, things that would give me hope, and his behavior when we spent time together led me to believe that he REALLY did care for me, and had intentions of creating a lasting relationship. All that being said, it makes it so difficult to let go. It just always seems/seemed so close...2b

February 10, 2006
2:14 pm
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Thanks for asking 2b... I'm doing ok today. I am trying very hard to "detach" from this man. I understand that he is absolutely LOADED with issues! He is not a bad person and I do not think he has a malicious bone in his body. He is just STUCK in his own misery and is in a constant internal struggle. I don't think he knows how to be happy. Not to analyze him or anything but I don't think he thinks that he deserves happiness or deserves to be loved. He is so messed up.

I feel badly for him because I know that I have issues too, but I am working on them everyday. I don't ever sit back and say "Oh well... my life sucks, I'm all alone, I don't trust anyone and... woe is me!!!!" I KNOW that I can change my life by changing the way I think and behave. He does not. He cannot get out of his own head long enough to make any positive changes!!!! Last Easter... we were still together but on the verge of breaking up. He was more depressed than I had ever seen him and I felt that his life lacked direction... so for an Easter gift, I bought him the book "The Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren. I read it myself and thought that he could really benefit from it. We broke up and I never followed up to see if he read it (I'm sure he didn't), but I feel that it would have helped him immensely...

So, yesterday (the day after the big blow-out on Wednesday)... I decided that I NEED to detach for my own sanity. I cannot save him! I cannot MAKE him seek professional help and I absolutely CANNOT force him to trust me enough to surrender his fear and let me love him. I cannot push against his strong resistance any longer to prove to him that he can trust me. It hurts too much to get so close, only to be pushed away again.

I didn't contact him yesterday and last night, I turned my cell-phone OFF for a few reasons, #1... because I didn't want to be tempted to send him any msg's, #2... I did not want to keep checking it for msg's, only to be saddened that there were none and #3... I REALLY didn't want to engage in any light-hearted banter with him. I feared that he'd try and contact me to be cute, funny and flirty. That is usually the cycle. After a blow-out, he goes into extra-fun-denial mode!!! Smoke and mirrors designed to make me forget that I decided to move on!!! Unfortunately, it usually works!!! 🙁

But... not this time!! I turned my phone off until I woke up this morning. When I turned my phone on, there were 3 msg's from him from the night before (I'm so glad I didn't get them!!! I would not have slept a wink if I did!)...

The first one said "Sometimes I lie here in my room and think? What's my purpose in life? What am I doing? Why am I here and what have I accomplished? Pretty sad, huh???

Second one said "I hope you're sleeping"... (He must have realized that my phone was turned off because I didn't respond.)

Third one... "Then, I know it's my own fault... I'm f*cked up! I hate the fact that I make you cry, sad, hurt. I really do! I'm sorry! I'm glad your phone is turned off... Oh well, G'night T-"

I wanted to cry when I read his msgs. They sounded so sad and self-defeated. My first instinct was to call him, tell him that I'm HERE for him... that I want to help him through his pain... that I love him and will never desert him... BUT I've done that before! I've done it more than once (more than 10 times probably) and nothing has changed. I TRIED to save him! I tried to love him... I tried, tried, tried!!!!! I tried it all. He KNOWS me. He knows how I feel about him. I need to leave it at that. He knows that I have unconditional love for him... I cannot keep trying to PROVE my loyalty to him to make him feel safe and protected. Because ya know what??? I do NOT feel safe, protected or loved by him!!!! Shouldn't this relationship be a two way street?????? Shouldn't he be stepping outside of his own misery long enough to realize that I am hurting too??????

No need to answer that question. It was rhetorical... I know the answer. That's why I have not responded to him.

I need to protect ME. I am not his mother, savior, guardian angel or psychologist!! I need to recognize that. I'm getting there. Baby steps...

TC

February 10, 2006
3:17 pm
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turnabout
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Detachment's a bitch, ain' it?

It sure is a struggle.

Don't have much to say right now (nor much time), but I'll return later.

February 10, 2006
4:12 pm
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Shaney
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Hey TC -

Did he read Purpose Driven Life?

"Sometimes I lie here in my room and think? What's my purpose in life? What am I doing? Why am I here and what have I accomplished? Pretty sad, huh???"

My answer would have to be no. If that book doesn't give you a purpose, it sure gives you a lot to consider. That book changed my life, I swear.

BUT, hey. I'm so sorry that you're having to play this game of avoiding his messages, just to stay focused on your own survival. It sucks and it's not easy. But whatever it takes to get through this, do it. I used to turn my house phone off too. That way I wasn't sitting there perched by the phone, waiting for it to ring. Hang in there TC.

I'm going to lunch before I starve to death. I'll catch up with you later. :o)

February 11, 2006
12:08 am
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Isn't it funny? You buy your guy a self-help book; I buy my guy a self-help book. We both doubt they've looked at them (although they've probably intended to. they always have the best intentions.) because despite knowing what a mess they're making of their lives, they are too afraid to investigate what they are doing wrong, they might find the truth too terrible to face. Self-help books seem so benign. There's no risk of judgment or outwardly exposure. What could possibly make this scary? But it is. Self-exposure when you have an existing fatalistic perspective is a VERY scary thing.

Oh well. Maybe one day they'll risk it. But who knows when!???

You said:
**...I absolutely CANNOT force him to trust me enough to surrender his fear and let me love him.**

This is the hardest of all to accept, isn't it? It is for me.

TraCo

February 11, 2006
1:04 am
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You still here Tra?

February 11, 2006
1:24 am
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Well, I have to say that I am very proud of myself today. I resisted making contact and even more importantly, I resisted taking the bait that he dangled in front of me last night (when my phone was off)... Normally I would have jumped all over that opportunity to ONCE AGAIN show him how kind and compassionate I am!!! I'd want to make him feel better AND I wouldn't want him to feel bad about himself if I didn't respond... PLUS, I'd look at it like a "Get of of jail FREE card"... ya know, I wouldn't be responsible for making contact considering I was ONLY responding to HIS reaching out to Me!!!! Right? Wrong!!!! I now see how wrong I have been and how EASY I have made it for him over the past 10 months! He throws a crumb (the poor, tortured, confused soul crumb) out and there I am!!!! I jump all over it like a starving large mouth bass!!!

NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES! NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES!! I am repeating this to myself over and over today. Everytime I have the urge to call him, I say that to myself and I remind myself about how HORRIBLE I felt on Wednesday night. My heart hurt so badly! I don't ever want to feel that way again. I cannot allow myself to be sucked in by him, UNLESS he makes some REAL changes and backs up his pledges of Love and promises with ACTIONS!!! It is 1:30 a.m. and I've made it through the day!!! Woohoo!!!!

I'm going to bed now. I'll check in tomorrow!!!

G'night!

TC

February 11, 2006
7:10 am
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tc,

Good for you girl, I'm proud of you!

I had to laugh (at myself) when you spoke of jumping for every crumb and how easy you have made it for him. Oh, how many times I have done this myself.

I have often complained to my therapist that every time he "acts up" (that's what I call it) I swear to myself that I will not allow him to roll back in whenever he feels like it. But time and time again, after a week or two, he calls and says "can we go out to dinner and talk"....and I say "okay". That's it...."okay". No fight, no standing up for myself, no nothing. You see, by nature, I am very non-confrontational, unless I'm very angry, and he knows that. Which is exactly why he waits until I am no longer angry. At least no longer raging.

That is exaclty why you will very often hear me say..."If he doesn't call...I'll be fine". I can deal with the pain. I can deal with the anxiety. I can deal with the lonliness. And I know that I will be okay. As long as he doesn't call.

Anyway, sorry about the tangent. I just wanted to let you know how much I can relate to what you are feeling.

Stay strong tc....we can do this.

Love,
lolli

February 11, 2006
7:53 am
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elizabeth anne
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When I saw this thread I had to jump in as I can totally relate. I cannot tell you how many times we have done the push/pull.
The sad part is here I am again with the NC for 6 days now and thinking in my head it is over, then thinking in my heart he will change himself enough to committ to me one day. And who knows maybe he will. But I cannot sit around hoping he will. I need to move on. And how will I even trust him enough if he does committ and then pulls away again. Such a cycle

He knows how much I love him, yet we continuely hurt each other by falling into the same patterns. When we are apart we miss and realize how much we love them and all we want is to get back together again. We never give each other the time to work on ourselves.

Well I am more confident this time not to create more hurt for myself and give myself alot more time, and who knows along the way I may meet someone. Or if it is in the stars for us and we are worth fighting for this person will have to have the time to realize the difference and do something about themselves.

February 11, 2006
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Hi Lolli,

I understand what you are saying. I just wonder why we need for THEM to let US go??? Why can't we be the ones to say "Enough is enough"?? I've been wondering about this a lot lately and I've not been able to figure it out. I have said the SAME thing! If he never calls again, it will be fine.

I mean it when I say it and quite honestly, the only time I feel like ME (happy, content, at-peace and relaxed) is when I am NOT in contact with him. He has become so toxic to me. The time we spend AWAY from each other is like a huge EXHALE for me. When things are good for us, the are SO GOOD but when they are bad... they are HORRIBLE!

Here is something that I think we both need to do, Lolli, in order to stop the painful cycle from repeating. Maybe we need to have a plan of attack for the next time they come snooping around when they feel like the dust has settled? (ya know, they won't get yelled at by us, or have to listen to us whine and cry)... Maybe it is at THAT point that we need to de-rail the train (I just made that up, I like it)... We need to do something DIFFERENT in order to see different results.

I think that we (I) need to maintain the anger momentum a while longer. Not really "anger"... just conviction, I guess. I cannot allow him to make me forget why I was so upset with him. He is an expert at it and I have fed right into it. Mainly because I know if I started right back up with trying to discuss the same issues the minute he came back around... that he'd disappear again. BUT, Is that necessarily a BAD thing????

I guess that is my fear. I'm afraid that if I keep pushing him away, he'll STAY away! I'm afraid that he'll give up on me (us) and that scares the pants off of me. I guess I'm not much different than him in that I'm afraid to close the door on us forever. I like to know that there is always a possibility that we'll work things out, so THAT is MY motivation. But, what is HIS???

I'm sure he doesn't have any such deep, lofty, foward thinking goals or noble intentions. I think he just wants to pacify me. Period.

Yuck! Do I want to spend the rest of my life being "pacified"? NO and neither do you, Lolli.

I also wonder if there was someone else around giving me the attention and positive strokes that I need, would I give a rat's a$$ about what this Bozo is doing or thinking? I don't think so. But, I haven't been open to finding anyone else because I have been indefinitely stuck at the circus... observing the stupid CLOWN show, over and over and over!!!!! Ugh!!!!!

Lolli, I want you to adopt the same motto as me. NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES! Let's try and make something change. Anything! Even a small change! Baby steps, my friend.

Let's stick together! I know we can get past this. Someday, we are going to look back and say "Wow! Why didn't I do that sooner?" Let's make "someday" come sooner, rather than later!

Much love and support, my friend!

TC

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