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suicide - what do you think happens to you after suicide?
December 2, 2003
2:17 pm
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Zinnie
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Suicide? A permanent fix to a temporary problem.

Suicide? Selfish. Cruel. Permanent.

Suicide? For the people who are left? Hurt. Pain. No understanding of why. The person never said.

Suicide? For children left behind. Pain. Embarrassment. Never knowing why? Will the desire overtake me one day?

Too many friends gone now from suicide. Why? Because of a boyfriend who did not really love them. AIDS. Cancer. Who knows.

Suicide. Hurts everyone, except possibly the person who really did it. But, then - maybe it does - they never got to finish their live that was given to them as a gift. Maybe, they would have been the person to have given birth to a great person, or found the cure, or just planted a garden for the world to enjoy. But will never know. Because of Suicide.

December 2, 2003
2:20 pm
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Ladeska
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To just answer your question here...my belief on this is - I don't think that it's a thing where God is going to be a big bad bully up there who delights in punishing someone over the fact that life was too much for them for whatever reason. I just don't buy that. It would nullify and void everything I've absolutely come to know about God in my own life. If you refer to the Bible and that is something you believe in - when it talks about the unforgiveable sin - that sin - is.....saying no to the Holy Spirit until the point of death.

Now that can be intepreted alot of different ways though.... Saying no - means what? And then there comes into play that thing of Hell. What is it really? The one thing that makes complete sense to me is that whatever you were given, whatever you are very capable of doing and accomplishing, for whatever reason....IF you do not accomplish that, if you do not take all roads that are open to you and if you purposely put an ending point to it all by saying - I will not try anymore...hell....may be more about "what could have been" and what we did with our life and what that did not do.....for the advancing of our spirit after this life.

Maybe hell is only about not realizing what we really had in our hands when we had it and making use of an incredible gift, regardless of whatever else may plague us. We have this uncanny thing in our hands called life and in that life is a little something that is very, very powerful...that turns mountains into flat plains that blows up things that were immovable before and that penetrates the darkest dark. That little spark of whatever it is - is very much there living in every breath you take.

If you're at the point of suicide, to me that means - you haven't accomplished what every fiber of your being came here to do and can very much accomplish.

But if we do commit suicide, I don't think that God is mad at us, per say, I don't think we are condemned to hell forever or anything of the sort. But I do think - we will be very sorry for it because it left something very unfinished...something that needed doing so that our own spirit would grow stronger, taller, more powerful.

I think God is very sad for us...when we get to this point. I think He very much "knows" what drives us there and I think that right before we jump over the edge, He always, always, always gives us a way out......I firmly believe that. Now we can stubbornly have our heart and mind set against it....that's true. And maybe that is....what is meant by - the unforgiveable sin that we say NO to the Holy Spirit unto death. maybe...

But I think people can get into such a depressed state, too - that they aren't exactly thinking straight either. They may be fully convinced that they are - and that may fully NOT be the real truth of the matter either.

We can think there is no way out and there can be - a very real way out. But if we believe there isn't and act on it - it's a done deal. For that person - there was no way out...even though it was staring them right in the face.

Suicide to me is alot like descecration. Taking something very alive, with much potential and a creation that someone definitely "made" and basically crunching it beneath the boots and spitting on it and just throwing it away, marking it all up, labeling it garbage and therein - desecrating it.

I don't know what voices you are listening to when you deem yourself worthy of suicide.....but I can guarantee you they aren't voices of people that ever loved you, therefore - they are all lies. If you do an important act like suicide, shouldn't it be based on the truth??

December 2, 2003
2:21 pm
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sixfootblonde
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so it comes to this. What matters more, your temporary issues or the long lasting doesn't go away kind of hurt you will be inflicting on all those who know you? and don't even think it won't matter. Bullcrap. Sorry. It does. Each time I've lost someone to this act, I have watched those who knew them come out of the woodwork, devastated. I can't explain it I really can't. It touches something deep in all of us, some hidden fear and the shameful guilty secrecy is like a hideous cancer. I wish I could put you in my shoes the morning my brother killed himself over an exgirlfriend. I wish I could show you the shattered face of his 8 yr old daughter as she implored me "why?" I wish I could show you the lasting effects. Or the friend of mine who hung herself two weeks ago while her loving husband and two small children slept in the house, because she was just too sad? This family is living in a motel because they cannot return to that house. The 3yr old daughter doesn't understand anything but that mommy is gone and no one can explain why in a way she can understand, and her room is not anywhere she can be, and her things, and her world is shattered. Or the 21 yr old daughter of another friend who killed himself two years ago, who came to see me after this latest suicide in our community, reliving the loss of her dad again as she crumpled to the sidewalk outside my place of work. The bodies I've seen via EMS, where I volunteer, the one who jumped a cliff and I got to help climb and retrieve his broken body as from below we all could hear the agonized weeping of his friends who were with him.......I wish I could make you see what I've seen, feel what I've felt. It might give you a sufficient glimpse of a paraphrase of your initial question, ie, what happens to your loved ones after suicide?.........

Please don't make any hasty decisions.

December 2, 2003
2:31 pm
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Ladeska
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Just curious, but have you ever been on this site before?

December 2, 2003
2:31 pm
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sixfootblonde
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Desecration Ladeska -- we could go so many places with this line of thought. As in, where the bible says "know ye not your body is a temple" ie, the holy spirit/still small voice/whatever you choose to call it dwells with us. To say no unto Death may well be the unpardonable sin. I've always wondered what that was. Or perhaps the egotistical scornful throwing away of the wonderful gift of life -- "I have come that you may have life, and that more abundantly" .

However you struck such a chord with me when you stated the part about not thinking correctly. I read so much about depression after I lost my bro. I found a holistic, herbal healing sort of book open upon his bed afterwards, open to "depression." Brought me to my knees in wracking sobs because it brought home to me more than anything else how he was trying to understand what was happening to him. And how close, but how far away. Anyway, to read the physical manifestations and mechanisms of true depression is amazing. You know me, I love most things medical and so it was like a mechanic reading about the latest way to bore an engine .40 over! 🙂 But you would be amazed at the ways the brain pattern, activity, and electrical activity changes. So I don't know. I won't presume to but will re-iterate that only God knows, and I know he knows everything good for me.

"He makes all things beautiful........in HIS time" says a lot to me. His time. Not mine. Faith -- this is where it comes in. I know the depths I went thru after this last suicide -- I'm convinced were for the good because they are prompting me to start this outreach group for other survivors. It's all about that bigger picture. Which by definition we can't see now. Again --- faith. The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.......

December 2, 2003
2:37 pm
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Zinnie
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Lastly is suicide, brings the bitter wrath, anger and hurt out of all it touches.

December 2, 2003
2:48 pm
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sixfootblonde
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ooh good quote -- where is that from, Zinnie?

December 2, 2003
2:56 pm
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Zinnie
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Me.

December 2, 2003
3:10 pm
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Ladeska
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Anyone ever seen the movie "What Dreams May Come"?

December 2, 2003
3:32 pm
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unhappy camper
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Not being religious, I think after death is just like before you were created from an egg and sperm.

Nothingness.

Life is a blimp on the radar screen. It's short and precious. A blink of an eye. It must not be wasted. War, crimes, violence, cruelty....for shame.

December 2, 2003
3:41 pm
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stopitnow
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no, never been suicidal before. i'm still taking in all your postings. just thinking and understanding. no action at this time. i promise.

December 2, 2003
3:48 pm
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unhappy camper
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I'm sure that whatever you have experienced has happened to others as well at some point in time. That does NOT lessen it. Just think of all the brave souls who have been mistreated and abused and tortured and raped and abandoned, etc, etc....

There is nothing more precious than your life, because it is ALL you have. YOU=LIFE.

If there are corrections to be made, whether by you or by others, choose to work on accomplishing that. What would have to change to make things good for you again? The rules, you can't take away anything from the past. You can only fix the present, and consequently, the future.

Are you giving someone the power to ruin your life? Do they deserve such power? Your God does not do that to you even.

No matter what they did, or you did, or all did, there is a chance to resolve and get by it.

Nothing is insurmountable.

December 2, 2003
3:54 pm
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Ladeska
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I think back to what my small voice said once everything calmed down enough that I actually heard it and all those times......which there have been a few of them in my life time...has been the voice of "pro-me". A voice that wasn't about giving into all the self critic's blah, blah, blah, which - was LOUD and very aggressive, non-stop accusations....so it wasn't listening to that voice at all, turned it way down or completely off.....and the voice that I heard was the one that had always been shut up, told to get in a corner, told that no matter what I do here, I can't get out of it, that no matter how hard I try, I'm not worth it anyways and who cares if you die, etc., etc. You know the tape...

But this voice was like - Thank GOD you turned all that down because I've been knocking and knocking and knocking on your door but you always act like - I'm not even "here", like I don't exist and "I'm YOU", I'm that person that you don't connect with anymore and make decisions for and yet - you never even really talk to me....too busy condemning me, too busy turning your back on me like I'm nothing to you, too busy just tuning me right out and for once - you're listening.......WOW, it's about time!!

And when that voice had it's due.....when I heard THAT voice out and didn't shut it up - that voice had ALOT to say.......alot about how I was my own worst enemy sometimes, how no one could get close to me or love me because I didn't love myself and I had believed alot of lies that had been pounded into my head over and over again by other people.

Okay fine, I made some mistakes in life, you have to, we all do and have but - is death the cure, the end-all answer? Or doesn't death that is purposely done....just create more death and dying and hurt and sadness than it could ever heal?

One ripple in the water, no matter how small we think it is....becomes a tidal wave somewhere down the line.. So what we put into motion - does matter, in the way of good energy or bad energy.

Sometimes that voice absolutely says to pick up and completely remove yourself from everything that is familiar and change it all up. Radically - change it up. I actually did that....a couple of times and I cannot even begin to tell you how healthy that was for me. And how little time it took before - suicide was the fartherest thing from my mind.....

We can change things......as long as we have that life within us - we can change it - drastically change it.

December 2, 2003
4:01 pm
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unhappy camper
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Ladeska, I said at my last support group meeting that we have been "invisible to ourselves".

With the self discovery we began to see "us". We really DO exist.

December 2, 2003
4:01 pm
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Ladeska
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I saw a program on T.V. last night about people who had jumped of the Golden Gate bridge in S.F. and who had survived it. Both men said that immediately after they had jumped - they both decided it wasn't the thing to do and they wanted to live more than anything else in the world...but they had both left the bridge already and were spiraling down to the water. One guy actually thought quickly and instead of falling head first, he corrected his body so that he was falling feet first and thought that might save him. Actually it did.

The other one blacked out or just didn't remember hitting the water at all. But both of them lived and they finally met recently and talked to each other. They both said - it would have been the most tragic thing in the world if they had of ended their lives...because of what they would have missed out on...and what they would have done to other people. But both of them also said - the darkness in their lives at the time was so great, so hard to penetrate and like depression can do to you........it just overcomes your rationale thinking and rules you...to the point of leading you right to suicide. These men now are sooo full of life and have lived a good life since then.

December 2, 2003
4:07 pm
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unhappy camper
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Who would you want to find your body?
What should they say at your funeral?
Are you punishing someone in particular? Will this make it even?
Will you be showing them? Will they feel the way you expect them too?

What will it accomplish exactly?
Is there another way to accomplish the same thing without tragedy?

Will you reach out to someone in your community or family to help you today or tomorrow?

December 2, 2003
4:57 pm
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mj
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Hugs dear Friends....
I hope we can always be supportive to everyone who wants support....
Last year we had a friend that came here and he chose to live.
I hope that We all come here for answers when we get tired. Big Hugs to all of YOU.

December 2, 2003
4:58 pm
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stopitnow
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this is not about showing anyone anything or having some expectation for accomplishment.

it's about finding the right solution for everyone.

have you ever stopped and looked around and thought what exactly am i adding to the world. who am i helping and this world will go on just fine without me.

it's not a symphathy play. it's real, it's hard to understand or explain. i can think rationally about not doing it and then the otherside takes over.

i'm more than sure that God sent me here for a reason. i'm reading and re-reading your comments. they are all very logical.

i'm just processing...

December 2, 2003
5:06 pm
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unhappy camper
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I'm glad you are thinking.

Are you male or female? Married? Kids?

December 2, 2003
5:09 pm
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mj
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Let me ask you straight out....

Are you suicidal?

December 2, 2003
5:17 pm
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unhappy camper
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Have you read any of the other threads? Do you see us all suffering and trying to work things out? Do you see how much effort and how much we care about solving problems and how we slip and slide and fall in the mud but keep going?
We are hurt too. We have to keep going. Do you have any suggestions for us, the wounded? Can you help us with our pains?

December 2, 2003
5:19 pm
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stopitnow
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i am female 37. divoriced for the last 7.5 yrs. two boys 9 & 15, i don't see them much because i work two jobs and feel very much like they do not need me because i'm never there anyway, make sense?

i am

December 2, 2003
5:22 pm
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mj
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Your question was....What do you think happens to you after suicide......

No one knows for sure, but I had a friend who believes that after dying a few times was nothing compared to the time he tried to kill himself....and hearing his story made me a believer that this life is the only hell,,, I ever want to experience....and only this once.

I lost a nephew I loved dearly to suicide Christmas Eve 97 and he was a beautiful human being. It still hurts to think of his pain. So....if you want help....I am here...but don't play with my emotions....that is cruel.

December 2, 2003
5:23 pm
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mj
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Hugs dear one.

My heart goes out to you.

December 2, 2003
5:24 pm
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mj
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I will give you my hope.

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