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Still Growing.....(Mich here)....please read....
November 24, 2006
4:21 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Well, in the last 48 hours I have learned an awful lot about myself. Before coming to this site, I had NO clue what the word co-dependant meant. It wasn’t until I read the thread that went into great detail, that I knew what it was and that I was. I knew all of those things existed in my life, but didn’t know they could all be wrapped up into one term. I have since purchased several books and tried to read and learn as my mind would allow me to.

I have been coming to this site since this last May. For the first time, I spilled my life story. Because it was anonymous, I didn’t care what people thought. I needed to get it out. So I did. I had been to see a counselor out of state in the prior December. (05) I was told at that point that I showed all of the signs of PTSD. Due to my childhood. However, I was not seeing anyone on a counseling basis, since I started coming here. Until about 6 weeks ago. Since, I have spent about 25 hours in counseling in 6 weeks. He determined that I was bi-polar. For whatever reason, that was and still is very hard to swallow. But, most important, for the first time in my life, I have felt a glimmer of hope. We have started to go through a LOT of the “ugly” things from my past. Things that are very painful. So I clung…to the only people that I have. The people here. I asked my psychologist what he thought of the idea of this site (with telling him the idea, not the actual site name). He thought that it was wonderful. He was very glad that I have here to run to. And as am I. He knows very specifically some of the situations that have taken place here, to try to help me see how I could have handled it differently. Or why I should leave this one alone. He is very impressed with the relationships that the “sisters” and I have. I asked him about the codependency of this. His answer was, this is a phase for all of you. If what you need right now is someone to hold to, then, far be it from me to judge. You do what you have to do to cope, and hope that you can all heal together. You tend to trust in people that you know believe you, and in you, and that know your pain better than anyone else you will ever meet. There is a point that you have to rely on other people when you aren’t strong enough to stand on your own. My psychologist has emailed things to me that he thinks would be helpful to us, as I have also shared them with others around here that have asked. He has gone as far as while on vacation to send an email to me to copy and send to the girls there. He has been a blessing, not only to me, but to others here. A professional opinion here and there isn’t an all bad idea. At least that is how I felt.

What I realized though, is that I have a lot farther to go than I realized. Do I see the relationship with the sisters as being unhealthy…to a point, YES. We are all unhealthy in a psychological manner of speaking. We all have a lot of growing to do. That is why we are here. I believed that was why we were all here. I can appreciate being confronted, and even suggestion, it truly was the manner that it was done that disturbed me. Does that mean I am right? No, it means that it is a feeling, and I like them, had the right to express it. I think on a whole the situation could have been handled better. The fact is, it wasn’t. What I hope is that we ALL learn from what happened here. There are a lot of wonderful people here, haven’t met one yet that I truly believed had ill intentions. I discovered that my anger has the ability to get the better of me. Yup, I admitted it. I immediately went into a mode where I felt like I had to defend my actions, and then my reactions. I immediately took it very personally. As I do believe that most would. I have spent my whole life feeling like I have to defend why I am the way I am. My childhood has left me a miserable 30 years of pain. I am working to fix that. But, most what I discovered was this, My insecurity can completely run my life. And did in several situations here, and that the insecurity that I feel is not because of what anyone here has done. My insecurity has come from my past. I just react to things because of this. I am trying to get better.

Six to eight weeks ago when the sister threads evolved, it went something like this. I was in the middle of a thread that my insecurities left me feeling very attacked. Rightfully so or not. So LovingLife asked if I would like to have a conversation elsewhere. I needed a small group conversation at that point. There were too many voices, too many opinions that I could NOT sort them out. I needed to talk, but I needed it smaller if that makes sense. GG, quickly joined our conversation. Over six or eight weeks that thread became a safe place for many of us. We could be us, we were comfortable. We could say anything, do anything and we didn’t judge each other. We offered feedback and a shoulder. We offered love and a safe place which so many of us desperately needed. We became very close, all of us. To answer if we are to dependant on each other or not, probably. Were there certain things that we needed pointed out? Probably. But we were us. Maybe the people that joined us along the way needed just what we had. Therefore, I do think it was and could still be helpful for certain people. That doesn’t mean that it is for everyone. I believe that no contact is the best thing that I could do with my mother, but I am not there yet. I cannot do that just yet. So I am holding on until I get there. Where I am right now, is not where I want to be or intend to be for the rest of my life. I want to be comfortable with who I am. First I had to find people that could help me, and I did. HERE. I needed someone to talk to, I found that…HERE. I had to find people that would love me for me….I did….HERE. I had to find people that would help me grow, I did that….HERE. I found people to offer me ways to cope, such as books to read, encourage me to start counseling again, I did that….HERE. I had to find people that I could help, to start to take my mind off of just me…I did that…HERE. Please realize that although I am not where some of you are, I am still here, and I am still growing….I am still hurting, I am still sensitive, but I am still growing.

We live in a “live and learn” world. I am living and I still have a lot to learn. I have the desire…I just need the direction and that little thing called TIME. I am not where I want to end up, in the long run. I have made some poor choices here at this site, and especially in the last 48 hours. I cannot and will not apologize for the relationship that some of the “sisters” carry. We have tried to never exclude anyone. Apparently we appalled some of you. (I can’t think of another word off of the top of my head) But, I will apologize to all of you for any pain that I may have caused specifically to you. In particular, Lolli, (which I think we are of a better understanding now, just know that I am sorry), Bevdee, Snow, and anyone else that I have hurt. I have learned a lot. I will not beg for forgiveness, from anyone…just try to make it known that I am sorry.

What I ask, is that you remember that we are all at a different point in our lives. We are all at a different point of healing. We are encouraged to share and care, and I think that was the original intent of the hearts that felt this way. I do believe that. I just hope that there was something to be learned here for EVERYONE, that was directly involved, or reading to see where this would go.

Should I choose to go, it will not be because of this directly…but because of the things that I have learned about myself through this. I will go with no hard feelings to anyone, and I will go wishing you all the best. That is my heart. This place will FOREVER hold a place in my heart. That is not to say that I have made up my mind. What I have discovered is that I may not yet, even be strong enough to be here. I cannot handle the constructive critisism that was handed out, and I think that I need a smaller group to help me here. Maybe I will feel otherwise, the decision is yet unmade. Just know that I love you all and care about you much. I do apologize for the length of this, but it was where I felt like I needed to go with this.

Again, I wish you all nothing but the best. Journey on….health, true love, and happiness to all. Through this journey of healing and beyond…that is my wish for you all…..!

November 24, 2006
4:40 pm
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Anonymous
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Dear ScaredinMichigan:

That was very courageous and eloquently said.

Wishing you continued healing, self-growth and contentment.

Moon & Stars

November 24, 2006
4:41 pm
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Isis
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(((Mich)))

Life is a journey fraught with many detours and bumps in the road. At the very least, you're learning and are on the road to recovery. I've been here for over a year now, and I still don't really post very often. I have too many issues! However, I read faithfully, and through that reading, I have learned a great deal.

You're post speaks volumes, and shows growth and awareness about yourself.

You should be proud of that Mich. Keep taking those baby-steps in the right direction.

Fondly,
Isis

November 24, 2006
4:42 pm
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2shy
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Hi Mich,

I have only discovered this site about a month ago. I haven't been as active as most people in responding to the posts, as I am a little shy. I can relate to what a lot of people are going through though.

I hope that you don't leave this site. I have noticed that you participate in responding to a lot of threads, and that you have offered a lot of advice and support. If you find that this site benefits you as well I suggest that you continue to stay on this site.

I realize that you feel like you need a smaller group of people at times to help with your healing process. Why not keep your small group in the Liberation side and continue to join us on the Support side? You can have the benefit of both worlds.

I hope you stay. I might be breaking up with bf soon and I may need your support soon.

November 24, 2006
4:43 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Thank you both. Of any post I have EVER placed on this site in 6 months...this was the toughest. I posted it with tears running down my face, and they still are. I want to be better, if nothing else, this was a good learning experience.

Mich

November 24, 2006
4:45 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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(((2shy))) here or gone, my heart is with you. I believe that I have helped people...I do. But, I have to decide what to do to help me first. My good friend kroika is teaching me that slowly but surely. And my sisters have helped me to get to where I am right now. No matter how painful that has been for me or for them.

Mich

November 24, 2006
4:48 pm
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lollipop3
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(((Mich))),

What an eloquent, beautiful and heartfelt post. Thank you for sharing yourself and your thoughts here. I think it will give all of us a better understanding of each other.

Good luck to you on your continued growth.

Love,
Lolli

November 24, 2006
4:48 pm
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Isis
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Remember sweetie-pie, recovery is a lifelong process. Self-awareness is often times not an easy thing, but it is a huge part of recovery- and it hurts like the dickens. You're doing good honey, you're moving forward.

Isis

November 24, 2006
4:59 pm
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clownface
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Hi Mich:

I too, have only recently found this site. I must admit, it brought me such hope and encouragement during a very dark time in my life.

When I removed myself from the afghan sisters thread, it was only out of respect for the group. I felt like I had impeded upon a long-standing relationship thread of which I truely knew nothing about. Need inivted me join, so I did. I neve felt offended or hurt or rejected by you or anyone else. I simply thought I was doing the right thing by respecting the closeness of the sisters thread.

I do hope you continue to post here. I too, learn from your insights and attempt to apply them to my everyday living. Your post to thread is most elequent and meaningful. Please continue to grow in spirit and internal strength....You have so much to share.

I do hope counseling brings you support and balance.

Take Good Care,
Clown~

November 24, 2006
5:12 pm
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ScaredinMichigan
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Clown

I have to find a happy balance, and I am not sure how to do that. SO the question remains can I do that AND stay here? Only time will tell. I will call you sister any day of the week sunshine. You are wonderful. I am glad that I have said some things that have helped you and meant something to you...You are welcome on the sister thread on the "other side" as long as it exists. You will always have a place in my heart.
(((Clown)))

Lolli,

Thank you for being you. Thank you for your understanding...thank you for "fighting" for us to listen to you. You have helped me to see a lot of what I am talking about here.

(((Lolli)))

Mich

November 24, 2006
5:41 pm
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Isis
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OK, HELP! I am running back over here to the support side because I just posted something on the Refugee thread over on Libs and I can't believe I did it.

I merely pointed out to need that the words she was using sounded exclusive, and I just don't know how she is going to react.

Lolli- I was following your lead, as I too had some of the same feelings, but was too afraid to voice them.

Damn! I hope I didn't just launch a scud missile. I was only trying to help.

Isis

November 24, 2006
5:45 pm
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bevdee
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Mandy

I believe that any time any experience causes me to look inside myself and learn from it- it was worth the pain.

I too, am learning to question my anger. I got lots of it.

I learned from reading your thread. I see you as a genuinely compassionate person working your way out of a labyrinth of despair. You are gonna get there.

One way you might look at this - support vs. libs - is that there are people here who care about you. (I worried about you the night you came here and said you wanted to kill yourself. I was relieved that Kroika was an all-nighter. I only watched because I did not believe I had any appropriate response, and because my sister is suicidal. She is the mother of my niece who cuts. So I lurked.)

All that happened before your Afghan thread originated. Please don't think I am downplaying the importance to you that thread holds - I am not. All I'm saying is that there is life outside the afghan as well as under it.

Maybe if you look at it like this - you can pick and choose what you absorb. Mandy, you really can. I think you already do this - because you don't respond to every thread. It might be that you are making choices you are not ready to acknowledge to yourself or anyone else. Just a thought.

Thank you for expressing your concern over my niece. One of the most maddening things for me is that no one up there calls me back. I want them to answer!!!!! So I am still waiting to hear, and it will probably be 2ndhand from my mother.

If you would like? Someday we might could talk about mothers.

Bevdee

November 24, 2006
5:53 pm
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Mich,

You brought tears to my eys. Your words truly touched me sweetie.

You caused me NO pain, and you have nothing to aplogize to me about. As I said a couple days ago when this began, if I caused YOU any pain, I am truly sorry.

You are very right. We are all at very different places on this path we call recovery and growing. I learn something new here every day I come here. Some of the lessons Ive learned have been VERY hard for me.

I spend most of my time on the Charmer/Abuser thread these days. Its a VERY tough thread to participate on. We sort of go right for the throat, for lack of a better word. But all of there know that, and understand it. There are days where things are pointed out to me that really tick me off, and cause me some heartache. BUT.....Im slowly learning that when something cuts to the bone like that, I need to take some time an examine why.

And that, my friend, is exactly what i see you doing right now!! Its hard, isnt it? None of like to hear criticism, especially me...lol....but when we get to the point in our lives where we can find a way to LEARN from it, and grow, and move past it, then we MUST be doing something right!

Im very happy that you have a group of women here that you can confide in, and Im sure none of want you to lose that. And without sounding TOO motherly, Im very, VERY proud of you right now Mich. I think youre growing and healing perhaps much more than you think you are.

Big hugs Mich (((Mich)))

Snow

November 24, 2006
5:54 pm
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Isis,

It's okay that you are speaking your truth and sharing your feelings. I don't mean to speak for Mich, but I really think that at this point, she knows that no one means any harm to her and that we are only trying to help.

This site needs to be a safe place for everyone to share their feelings and as long as we do so with respect and no ill-intent, I think it can only be a good thing.

I think all of this has been a great opportunity for each of us to speak freely and to understand each other better.

(((Isis))) I'm proud of you.

Love,
Lolli

November 24, 2006
6:10 pm
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(((((Mich))))) Kudos to you, sweetie! That is one of THE most powerful, beautifully-written posts I have read in a long time! I know that you had to reach deep down inside, and that each word comes from the deepest places of your heart. Jim will be sooooooooooo proud of you! I am so proud of you!

Just wanted you to know how special you are, and I hope you stay with us here at AAC. You have so much to offer to many thru your own pain.

Love and hugs, Plz~

November 24, 2006
7:27 pm
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Isis
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Mich and Bevdee- if either of you would like to chat about moms, I'd love to join you. Even though my mom's been gone for almost four years, I still carry her in my baggage, and quite honestly, it gets very heavy at times.

Lolli- thank you so much for your support. You have no idea what it means to me. I'm rooting for you Lolli, and want so much for you to be happy. BTW, you are a very inspiring gal, and I take with me so much each time I read more about your journey.

Isis

November 24, 2006
7:44 pm
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(((Isis)))

Thank you

November 24, 2006
8:00 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Mich

that was a very moving post and I really admire the way you expressed yourself. You seem to have taken on board the views of others without feeling the need to change your own. I think that is great

It shows a lot of insight and maturity and probably more healing than you are even aware of.

Well done for being able to share your feelings in such a brave way.

best to you..sleepless

November 25, 2006
12:22 am
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ScaredinMichigan
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I appreciate all of your responses. This post is from my heart. I care about you all. I wish you all nothing but the best.

My love to you all...
Mich

November 25, 2006
1:49 am
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ScaredinMichigan
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Bev, and Isis,

If (and that is a big IF right now) I stay, i would be more than willing to discuss mothers....I have some feelings about that right now.

Bev, I want to say this as well. If you truly read through the threads in here, my posts have been through SEVERAL. When I think my input is worth speaking I give it. Sometimes, I am just giving a hug, but I stop at a lot of them to say or do something. I know that there is life under the afghan and out from under it as well. I do what I can. I try. I believe that i have made a difference in the lives of a lot of people around here. it'll be sad if I decide to go. But, I think that is where I am leaning.

Love to you both,
Mich

November 25, 2006
2:25 am
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Hi (((Mich)))

Well, this has certainly been another intense day. I read what you wrote above:

"I have to decide what to do to help me first. My good friend kroika is teaching me that slowly but surely."

Thank you for crediting me with such an important teaching. If I have helped you with such a crucial life skill, then it must be because it is true that "we teach what we most need to learn".

And it is true, you can continue to learn and grow anywhere, whether on this site or somewhere else. I wish you the gift of clarity as you work through this decision about what is best for you. And, I am glad that you are alive to be making this decision and continuing to learn and grow.

Sending you a warm hug, dear (((Mandy))) and wishing you much joy in your continuing life journey.

love from kousin kroika (the birthday kumquat :o)

November 25, 2006
3:11 am
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ScaredinMichigan
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I thank you highly for the lessons that I have learned from you. I have truly watched you and listened to you in a number of places that I have never said a word. you make a lot of sense to me. I believe that you care, and I believe that your heart is in it for the best. You have made a difference in my life, and I hope that you realize that. So as I believe that our journeys will part ways here soon, I will think of you often. I will remember the things I have learned from you, and I will continue to use them as stepping stones in my healing process. I so appreciate you. One day should they ever know, and even if they don't. My kids will be blessed for the night that you spent hours saving my life. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You are a wonderful woman, and you have blessed many, and I am sure that you will continue to do so.

With great amounts of love AND RESPECT

Mich

(((kroika)))

November 25, 2006
4:27 am
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Thank you, Mich.

What you have written means a lot to me.

love, kroika

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