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Soul slayed open, dripping lonliness....
October 31, 2005
9:17 am
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artist 2
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I feel so lonely today... it feels like my whole body is turned inside out and everything is sensitive... like I'm just leaking out on everyone I come into contact with.... I feel gross and needy and stupid.

October 31, 2005
9:18 am
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Regret
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artist 2,

You have helped me many times on this board and I am sorry you feel this way. Do you think it might be related to PMS? Whatever, I am sending positive energy your way.

(((((((((((artist 2))))))))))))))))))))

October 31, 2005
9:23 am
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Hi Regret... no it's not PMS... it's a little codependency, but I think there's a real chance that BF is neglecting me. He's going away this coming weekend with the boys. This weekend we had a lot of sex, but I never felt loved or connected to him. He was busy working at his house the rest of the time. AND, Monday's are always bad days for me. I have told him about it, and he has called me Monay mornings a couple of times... But, all in all I think he just forgets about my having a hard time... Not to mention all this, but I think he's getting tired of my needy codependent self! I can just feel myself pulling down on him, though I try to keep it to myself most of the time... Today I just feel like I can't keep it in.

Wow, that's a lot. Thanks for asking because it helped me get it out.

October 31, 2005
9:32 am
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artist...

it does help to get it out.

my question is - you know mondays are a "trigger" for you - and they make you anxious and in return, codependent on your BF to make it better.

So, have you looked at WHY, and what you can do to help yourself get over it?

are you in therapy or any 12 step?

did you not feel loved or connected during while you were having sex beause you don't feel it in your heart or because your anxiety was getting in the way? it sounds like you are anxious about him going away with the boys, him not being there for you on mondays and because he had household responsibilities to deal with...so, while you were having sex, where you enjoying the moment or worrying about the upcoming weekend or the upcoming monday or the fact he isn't around enough....these types of things can distract us from enjoying the moment - not just during sex, but during day to day life activities.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is find out why, if you don't already know, monday's are a trigger and then work on making that better...then perhaps things with BF might get better.

I have heard the following from more than one guy I dated - and then from my brother too - when either I or another woman (my brother's GF) is approaching a known trigger - either pms or illness of a loved one or death or other stressful thing - their response is "oh no, here we go again"...knowing that it's normal to feel stressed, but that going off the deep end is a little "much"...and they know how bad it's going to get and that no matter how hard they try, their support isn't enough...so they dread things that come up...cuz they feel helpless and don't know what to do, and know most of the time, nothing is ever enough...so perhaps your BF wants to help with mondays, but because they are so frequent, it is draining to him - or he feels helpless - it is your problem and he can't fix it.

just something to think about it.

October 31, 2005
9:42 am
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Yeah, I'm in a 12-step, but think I need to go to CODA meetings... possibly. During sex, I think it's a trust problem. It's a fear of opening up, because he might decide to leave me and it would hurt even more.

On Monday's I have a couple of ideas why it gets this way... perhaps it's because the deepest connection to any preson is with him. And, to transition from that to a different kind of connection with my coworkers is hard... could also be the job... I don't feel I'm really doing much with my life. I want to do more with my time and efforts.

It also reflects a risk of being away from him, the separation of his getting into his own life and me into mine. I also don't trust myself... I see an attractive man and think, gee I wonder if HE could me me feel better. Stupid. Waiting to feel rescued is compounding my codependency.

I just called him. He said he heard it in my voice, that it would be ok, and that he is here. Isn't that sweet?

October 31, 2005
10:32 am
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I picked up a book "the courage to trust" by cynthia wall...it has alot of self help exercises to help us learn to trust ourselves and then learn to trust others.

But the first step is trusting ourselves.

Coda meetings may help you - I know they helped me ALOT - and I had HUGE trust issues - as well as "being happy with life issues"...I embraced coda meetings and it's only been a little over two months and the difference is HUGE.

keep working on the "why" part of mondays...knowing why it happens is first part of fixing it.

October 31, 2005
10:44 am
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I did pick up on your advice a while back on the book. The Courage To Trust is a great book. I'm working through the exercises... but it is SO HARD. I'll say it again HARD even to start the exercises... stupid. I read it thoroughly, deciding to do the exercises going through the second time. Now, I'm feeling fear that I won't do them correctly--that I will be wasting my time and that I'll miss something important along the way... sigh I don't know what to do with myself sometimes...

On the mettings.. my thought that comes up is, "why should I expose myself to these people? what do they know about my problems?" That's what I think... that it's stupid to tell these strangers how codependent I am... maybe it's a breakthrough waiting to happen?

October 31, 2005
11:06 am
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why do you expose yourself here? what do you get out of it?

they know alot about your problems - each one of them reflects a tiny bit of yourself - and hearing them speak really helps you open your eyes to your own problems and solution.

you are opening up here - but face to face and on a local level, is so much more relief.

October 31, 2005
11:15 am
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I have nothing to lose here really... I guess if someone sees my face, hears my voice... I have to own up to it too. There's also a fear of getting dependent on them too--the people at the meeting. I dont' want to be like the woman described on the other thread...

October 31, 2005
12:31 pm
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Also, it's easier to go back and read, re-read my own comments. Here I can take my time to think about this issue and read comments over and over. There's no pressure to make a change right away. There is some security in that.

October 31, 2005
12:40 pm
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artist.

coda meetings aren't about pressure to change - nor about holding you accountable - nor about being codependent on eachother - in fact, that is why you are there - to break those habits. And since everyone there is aware of the habit, and there to change it - it is not so easy to get hooked....as perhaps other support groups would.

When you go to a coda meeting - you DO share - but nobody gives feedback - you are there to listen - you are there to learn to listen without giving anyone advice and help. There is no pressure to change - in fact, alot of the women in my group have been there for more than a decade - it's about the process - about progress - not about perfection. Also, the only one responsible for you is you - nobody holds you accountable for anything. Everyone there is genuinely interested in you - how you are doing - but not about whether or not you did what you said you were gonna do....it's not like therapy where the therapist gives you an assignement and wants it done before the next session....it is at your own pace.

Yes, it is face to face - but the only one you are accountable to is you and yourself - not to anyone else in the meeting.

As far as being dependent - because it's a coda meeting - and everyone there IS codep. it is possible I guess - but if you keep going to meetings - the codependence goes away in time - because it's the purpose of going and healing and recovery - in the beginning you could potentially get codepedent on the meeting or group - but I think in the beginning, it's normal cuz you are so relieved to find people just like yourself.

I am in the process of thinking about who I want for my sponsor. I know I have to make a wise choice because i don't want someone who will just tell me what I want - so the person has to have shown me that they can help me understand and apply the 12 steps - and not just be another "crutch" in my codependence. I want someone who will tell me "pray - give it to your higher power" - not just try to fix my problem for me.

Here's a thought - why not go to a meeting - and just sit and listen - go at least twice - because each meeting has different topics....you don't have to talk or anything - just listen...and see if it's for you...what have you got to lose?

October 31, 2005
1:19 pm
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Artist, it sounds as if you have climed inside my head somehow and are expressing my thoughts and feelings....

I have never thought of the Monday blahs in the way you summed them up today. I think that you hit the nail on the head!! I am so content and close to my loved one on the weekend and then coming into an office environment on Monday is a let down. I wonder what he is doing (not in a jealous way), if he loves and misses me, if he is growing tired of my codependent behaviors (I get tired of it, how could he not)?

I then begin to feel like I have exposed too much of myself and that I have opened up too much. Reminds me of that REM song "Losing My Religion",

Hang in there!

Cary

October 31, 2005
3:01 pm
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Cary, I'm so glad you can identify!! Only just now did I get the first email from him and the day is halfway over. I swear my fear is that he's getting tired of me... but what else can I do than to keep on expressing who I am? If I try to hide my co-dependent feelings from him, I feel I'm being dishonest... so, I guess if he gets tired of it, then eh jsut does... but it's the FEAR of being alone that is t worst.

November 1, 2005
9:17 am
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Artist.

I tried to write to you yesterday, but kept getting interrupted, then the words just don't seem to form in my mind.

Bear with me here.

The serenity prayer is about asking for serenity to accept the things you cannot change and the courage to change the things you can, the wisdom to know the difference.

YOU can change YOU - you cannot change him.

You are afraid he is getting tired of you. But you think you will be dishonest if you hide who you are from him. Then you say that it's possible he WILL get tired of it - and that the fear is you will be alone.

It sounds like you are testing him. That you are intentionally pushing him away so you can say "see, I was right, he left me because he couldn't deal with my codependency".

How about CHANGING your codependency? are you happy with it? will you be happy if it ruins a relationship you truly want? do you truly want it or is this just an "easy" way out of it? are you self sabatogueing yourself?

For instance - I dated a guy who was an alcoholic. He would say "Yup, I am an alcoholic, SO WHAT?". Yet, he knew it ruined relationships. And he WOULD cry that it ruined relationships that were precious to him. And how much it hurt him to lose those relationships. But would he change????? NO. Instead, he blamed the OTHER PERSON for leaving him in his time of need. He blamed the OTHER PERSON for not understanding. He blamed the OTHER PERSON for not accepting who he was and his "disease".

In my mind, it was a cop out. He knew he had a problem. He refused to get help, and so it was HIS fault - not the other person.

Another analogy - if you had diabetes - and refused to take medicine - or continued to eat candy and drink soda - would you expect someone to feel bad and support you when your health declined and you became sicker and sicker - when all along, you had the tools to fix your condition and make you healthy? you just CHOSE not to?

What I am getting at here is - you KNOW you are codependent. And instead of working it out and trying to make it better - for your own sake, as well as the benefit of your relationship - you are saying "I am codependent - I know it will push him away, but oh well, that's who I am". That's not the case - it doesn't HAVE TO BE how you are - it is your choice to not fix it. If your BF doesn't accept that - you can't blame him.

If you are truly afraid of being alone - what is is going ot hurt to go to counseling, go to meetings and read, read, read...journal...do self help exercises...start working on your self esteem and confidence and trust issues.

If you keep up, you WILL push him away...and I think you know this. I just feel like you WANT it to happen, so you can say "see, I knew it". You CAN improve the outcome of this...and perhaps your BF is not good for you - perhaps there is better out there...but you won't get better until you have better to offer someone.

I hope this isn't offensive, I really struggled with how to say it - I just feel like you are leaning on the "label" of being codependent as your way of not fixing or improving things and your way of staying stuck in an unhappy situation.

There are ways out of the dark and into the light...there are ways of fixing this...there are ways of dealing with the fear and trust...you just have to be willing to do it.

November 1, 2005
9:31 am
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and one more thing.

if you are okay with your codependence - and okay with the idea that he may not be able to tolerate it and leave you - then that is okay too.

I am not telling you you HAVE to change or work on it.

I am just suggesting that if you truly love this person and want to keep them - and know that the problem lies within you - then perhaps you would want to start looking at what you can do to fix it.

If you can live with losing him because you are codependent and not willing to change that - then it is your choice and I won't judge it, nor should anyone else.

Somewhere out there, there may be someone who will love you and accept you as you are.

My BF now says he loves me warts and all, and was okay with how I was - but he also wasn't happy day to day - he accepted it as part of our relationship. I don't want that to be the "norm" for our relationship, so I am changing. I think if we had continued - it would have destroyed us "eventually", at some point.

So, if you are okay with your codependence, then it is okay not to change. But understand, your BF may NOT be okay with it, and you can't make him change. You may lose him by being "too needy". But as I said, perhaps he isn't a good fit and there is someone else out there for you that will accept it.

just offering two sides to this.

November 1, 2005
10:13 am
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Alicat, what I hear is that being honest with myself and going to CODA meetings, then being honest with him about it, letting him know I know my problem and am taking action because I want to keep him in my life... sounds like the solution.

It's funny that earlier this year i wasnt' sure I could deal with his bar-dart night each week. I'm still not sure about that, but at least going to meetings will help in the meantime.

So, thanks... artist 2

November 1, 2005
10:44 am
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Ali, WOW! You have put into words what I have tried to convey to my therapist for months now. I think that I try and complicate it and it comes out all wrong.

I am doing exactly what you described. I push and test on a regular basis, I am constantly saying things like,"let's just call this off now", or "this isn't going to work anyway". I am in some kind of race against time to end things first.

You are really on to something here. Thank you for some real clarity.

Cary

November 1, 2005
10:54 am
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artist.

what will happen is you will begin to see the relationship thru "clear eyes", not a vision clouded by emotion and determined by a set of reactions that comes from "past baggage" or codependence.

I set out on my journey of healing, and my BF too, with the idea that we would heal ourselves. And along the way, we MAY come to the understanding that the person we picked as a partner - the person we THOUGHT was a good choice - in fact, may NOT be. But that when we came to that fork in the road, we would be confident that our decision was based on CLEAR headed thinking and not just some impulsive decision based on some stupid heated argument or some outburst while we were all "tangled up".

The purpose of our journey is to see our relationship for what it truly is, not it's potential, not for what we WANT it to be, but as it truly is.

I have been able to come down to ONE core issue right now - not five, not ten, not a hundred - but one - that needs fixing - and if it doesn't get fixed, it could end our relationship. He knows what it is, and I have left it to him to fix it and trust he will. He may let me down, but that's not in my control.

You may come to the acceptance of dart night. It is a hobby, it is something he enjoys. You may see it as okay once you learn to trust and accept and relax about him having activities outside the relationship.

Or you may see it as a deal breaker.

But you will see it with "clear" vision and be strong enough to back what you want - and be strong enough to follow thru with the consequences if he doesn't meet your needs.

Also, you may find that dart night is okay, but something else is NOT okay.

But I think the biggest thing is fixing the codependence and the need to have him make you happy. If you take the pressure off of him to make you happy, to cheer you up, to be the one that makes or breaks your day - your relationship may improve - mine did. When you find happiness within - and stop needing others to fill that void - then life does start to look and feel better.

It is okay to have a problem. It is okay to share that problem with someone you trust. It is NOT okay to ask them to fix it or make it better. Your problem is your problem - you own it - just as they own their own problems.

And it is not okay to say "I am codependent, that is who I am, take it or leave it" and EXPECT them to take it/accept it. You can't control that outcome. You are codependent - but that can be fixed. And fixing it will help your relationships. My hope is he will continue to stand beside you and support you when you journey thru your recovery. That will be a good measure of how supportive and understanding he can be.

If he doesn't - it's not your fault - and I'd like to see you continue anyway - because you owe it to yoruself to get over the fears and trust issues and doubts - so the next love that comes along is healthy and supportive and loving, just like you deserve.

working on recovering is the best you can do - it doesn't have to be "huge" - baby steps are okay - it's about progress, not perfection.

I wish you luck on your journey.

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