Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
so much for anonymous posting
September 14, 2005
7:46 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

hey guys - just thought I would let you know that my posting my problems here will come to an end.

my boyfriend claims he found this site by accident - did a search monday night after our last huge blowout - and found us - and stupid me didn't think when I came here to use a nickname that he wouldn't recognize if found...my stupid.

anyway - we talked about some of the stuff posted here - not alot of it was a surprise, tho he feels I am not telling his side of it and so the posts are all one sided. He questioned why I call him controlling and manipulative - and I tried to explain - but it's something you just don't get until you are ready to hear it.

I don't know if he really found this on a search or if he got on my computer - yesterday when I logged on - his screenname was the top of my AIM list - which only happens if that person logs on and gets connected - but he claims he can't get on my computer since he doesn't know my password - anyway - he found us.

I said yesterday that I was close to wanting to end this - that I still had my doubts about who he was and what he was capable of accomplishing in therapy and what changes were possible.

I still have my doubts - but he went to therapy yesterday - came home with "middle grounds" his therapist suggested and wants us to try and wants to do joint counseling so we can learn to communicate all of this face to face.

I don't know if I want to try the middle ground - I feel like it's "my turn" to try what I want - and stop trying things that will make him feel better - or his way as I stubbornly see it. I do wonder if joint therapy would be worth the effort.

I guess after all I have been thru - I might consider joint therapy only because that's the last doubt in my head - can he or can't he, can we or can't we, solve this, grow, and work towards eachother - or is the answer that love simply is not enough and we are from two different worlds, with two different set of values and we will never learn to see eye to eye and must accept it and move on. I know that trying to figure this answer out alone, on our own, is only going to cause us to stay on the rollercoaster of yes/no/yes/no cycle.

so, I left it in his hands - I told him to make the joint appointment and I would be there. I feel like I have done a good bit of the work to date - so at this point - if he wants this - I will go along with it - but am not going to make it happen - he has to do it if he wants it. I will go in with an open mind - but will not be able to totally forget the track record he has established to date, as I know he won't be quick to forget all my shortcomings either.

so from here on out - I will have to keep my person issues between my therapist, him and my coda meetings - but WILL continue to come here and help everyone else - because you are all special and in a weird way, helping you helps me - I see your stories in mine - I get clarity of my own situation by helping others here, and I find answers even if I don't ask for them.

I love you guys - and want to thank you all for helping me to date.

September 14, 2005
8:31 am
Avatar
revelation
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali...if you ask the site coordinator, you may be able to get a new username????

September 14, 2005
8:51 am
Avatar
CAMER
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 100
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ali, he should stop trying to "control
" you by finding your nickname and making you feel like you have to leave this site...there is such a thing as privacy.

I would get another nickname, and tell him to give you your space, and stop trying to control you and what you feel.

good luck

September 14, 2005
8:51 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Rev,

user name or not - I think that if he came back here to read things - he would find the posts, knowing what our problems are and knowing it's about us.

I will consider it - but don't know that it would solve anything.

September 14, 2005
8:57 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

camer -

that would open up a whole new can of worms - he is fighting for his right to privacy - and his take is that if he gives up access to his phone, computer and such, that I should do the same - so if I can see where/what he posts, he can do the same.

September 14, 2005
9:40 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I´d hate having to give the help from this site. At least, you´ll be reading about us. Best of luck. There ain´t no free lunch, that is, breaking up or not, it´s not easy. Take care of yourself.

September 14, 2005
9:46 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ya know what? I will continue to post - and with my same name - I have nothing to hide.

And if he wants to snoop - like he has blamed me for previously - then let him.

I don't post much here that he doesn't already know - and if I choose to go the joint counseling - most of our discussions will take place there anyway.

and whatever you guys post in response, and he reads, he will see what you guys say, word for word, so that there is no mistaking who said what.

I have nothing to hide and I am not running from a great support network that I built - wouldn't be any different than him showing up at my CODA meetings - they are co-ed and public - anyone can go there too.

we are having a difference of opinion about getting advice - I told him I didn't think it was good for him to ask too many people - because in the past, he only heard what he wanted to hear - and only used the advice he wanted to hear - or he would disregard all he heard, even if it made sense and did things his own way anyway - he thinks that my coming here, or to my coda meetings or to a therapist is equal to him asking other people for advice. I think he has a point - but on the same note - I am seeking guidance from people I know that are experienced - with my issues and with how to make it right, healthy and normal - where he is randomly asking anyone. Dunno - maybe it is the same - but the bottom line is - I am asking people who don't know me - they are not friends, family or close associates in any way - and maybe that's where I see the difference. I don't talk to my family - cuz I know they are dysfunctional and I know they can't give me healthy advice. I am so screwed up in my thinking lately - I don't know which way is up lately - nor do I know if this is one of those points that I started out thinking I was right, but think maybe I am wrong. I see this board adn my coda meetings equal to therapy with a therapist - so talking here is equal to that - but can see how he sees that this is venting my problems and getting advice from a bunch of random people, just like he is.

anyway, I rambled - I will be around.

September 14, 2005
9:47 am
Avatar
revelation
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali,

thats a really bad invasion of privacy...rather like him reading your diary. You need this site Ali, you need to try and think of a way to continue posting here without him seeing it.

G'luck,
Rev.

September 14, 2005
10:02 am
Avatar
RobertM65
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sorry to hear that your boyfriend found you on the site, but glad you're still around !

September 14, 2005
10:12 am
Avatar
gayle
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali- Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. He invaded your privacy and this is a violation of trust. The point of coming here is so we can talk about what ever we want with out worrying about what we say. Go with your gut on this one, take care of you! What ever you decide you know we are all here for you and support you! Love you!

September 14, 2005
10:59 am
Avatar
gofigure
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali,
I am so glad you are sticking to your guns and will continue posting here!!

Several years back when my husband was accessing HUGE amounts of internet porn (as opposed to now when I suspect he accesses less--but still...), I found a SAA support site for both addicts and their SO's. I posted there trying to understand and learn how to "deal" with it. He found out and lit into me like you wouldn't believe. I allowed myself to be guilted into no longer visiting out of some misguided loyalty to him ('how dare I air our private lives in "public"?'), instead of being loyal to myself, my feelings and my personal growth.

Bravo to you for your strength in not allowing him to derail your recovery.

September 14, 2005
11:23 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Rev,

part of the problem we have is that right now we are talking about what "privacy" really means within our relationship.

so saying that I have a right to privacy on this goes against what I have been fighting him on lately.

This is something we have to explore in counseling - cuz I come from a family that has NO boundaries - no privacy - everything is an open book - nothing is sacred...people leave their keys in the ignition, purses in cars and backdoors open while they sleep.

He comes from a family/world where there is locks, passwords and protection on everything, where it is not safe to leave anything out in the open and everyone protects their privacy.

We are trying to define "intimacy" and rebuild his trust after he cheated (and equally - when we met, I left him to go back to my ex - so when BF and I got back together - there were trust issues for him - which are resolved I think).

so right now, we define intimacy and everything as open book - I don't know how to re-establish what is "private" right now - because if I start saying I have a right to private things - he will come back at me that he has wanted that all along and I kept telling him no, he can't have it.

honestly - even if I had a journal/diary - I would not care if he read it...that's just how I am.

anyway - I trust him to read this - so I won't care even if he comes here to read it - as I said before - none of my thoughts are a secret - I do try to share everything wtih him - maybe that's an issue - counseling might answer that.

September 14, 2005
11:39 am
Avatar
taj64
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali, posting on this site and reading other stories, is part of your therapy. He should be supportive and understanding of that. He is selfish to think that we are only hearing one side of it; that is his insecurity with himself. He should respect that part of your therapy or anything you to promote your well being. Doesnt he want you to grow?

September 14, 2005
12:06 pm
Avatar
lollipop3
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali,

I can only tell you what I did in a similar sitution and hope it helps.

I come this site a lot, often times with my b/f sitting right beside me watching t.v. He would makes jokes from time to time saying....are you in your meeting and I would just say yes but sometimes he would say....are you sure you're not trying to meet people? I would assure him that I was not. One day, while I was in the bathroom (I left my computer on) he began going through the threads......I watched for a moment but when he asked who's this one and who's that one....I told him...."Look, you took it upon yourself to look at my personal stuff, you see what it's about and why I'm on there so now just leave it alone" ....and I preceded to walk over to my computer and shut it off while he was still looking at it.

I told him "if I can't feel comfortable posting with you around than I will ask you to leave when I want to go to AAC." He has since left me and this site alone. He no longer asks if I'm trying to meet people nor does he comment on my using this site.

He does occationally comment on how fast I type but that's about it.

Perhaps now that he knows what your doing.....he will leave it alone.

Good luck,
Lolli

September 14, 2005
2:40 pm
Avatar
kathygy
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

alicat,

I think it makes a huge difference who you are asking for advice or guidance. You are asking a professional, your therapist, and a lot of people here who know about codependency, This is very different than your boyfriend asking random people who may not have any awareness or advice based on a healthy view of relationships.

I think couples therapy is worth it because it can help you decide whether to go or stay. It can shead the light you are looking for in trying to make your decision. I know because that's what's its done for me. In one case it made it totally clear to me that my relationship could not work because his issues ran too deep. It can clear out all denial.

love,
kathy

September 14, 2005
2:47 pm
Avatar
depressionsucks78
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

((((((((((ali))))))))))

we all need each other. i am so sorry about what you are going through. i feel like my own life is unraveling before my eyes, but it is different, because i don't have anyone special in my life. i am so alone, and hearing all of you guys' stories about man/woman troubles, maybe that is something i should be greatful for. but i'm not. i'm lonely, and i would give anything to have someone right now, even if we fought all the time. i can't do this alone any more. i'm so scared, confused, and frankly, just plain fucked up in the head.

hope we keep hearing from you despite everything.

love

~ds78

September 14, 2005
2:57 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Kathy -

I think that's where my mind is at - that if we do couples counseling and it STILL looks hopeless - the separation will go ALOT smoother - because both of us will have done EVERYTHING in our power - and there will be a mediator available to help make the decision easier to "swallow". On the other hand, if it works - our relationship will be better for it.

Both of us realize that it doesn't matter how much we grow individually, if we still don't know how to talk to "eachother" without pushing eachother's buttons and such. We know we can grow as better people in individual therapy, as individuals - but we want to grow together better as a couple. We both believe that even the best, most in love couples have trouble communicating and since we both are seeking guidance outside eachother, we will never learn together without joint counseling.

I think that he believes when he tells random people the story, he believes he is telling both sides of teh story and enough details to get a full, well thought out answer. I don't know this for certain, because I am not there, and I have NO CLUE who the hell he could even be asking, outside his family and a few random friends - he claims to have reduced his buddy list to next to nothing, but then he is in NY all day, with no account of where he is or who he talks to, so it could be anybody - I just have no clue who. But in his mind, which is all that matters to him, asking them is no different than asking a bunch of strangers here, who I know nothing about, or sharing at my coda meetings where I don't know anything about anyone either, and a therapist who he believes may have a piece of paper, but may or may not be qualified to help. I won't change his mind, so not gonna try.

Lolli -

I made a point about it being my place - and I think that perhaps he will stay away - he says he will find someplace else, that he found two other places - dunno if he was just baiting me to go find where he posts or not - if he doesn't - then the truth will come out at some point - when something I write bugs him enough that he can't contain it any more. I won't purposely do anything to "test" this theory - but know how it is. I know when I snooped in his phone records before, after I found out he was cheating, I saw all the calls to her and his wife - and wanted to ask, but couldn't, or he would know I was there. Same goes for this situation. He says he will respect it - and I hope that's the case. Otherwise we will have another issue on our hands - this time not me snooping, but him.

He didn't come here looking for me - he claims he did a search and found this site and read thru some and saw my name, read the posts and knew it was me. Dunno what truth there is - the screen is always up on my computer at home, and somehow, his screen name was logged on to my AIM recently - but it's possible it is as simple as that.

I tried to explain that what matters is my view of things, my feelings and my opinion, and that because of this, I should not have to worry about "his side of it" - only how I see it and how I view it. I think what bothers him is people here making judgement calls about him and who he is and what he is doing, without knowing both sides - but again, that's his problem, not mine. When I need to - I add his side of it - or how he claims to see it - I think I am fair.

September 14, 2005
7:08 pm
Avatar
lollipop3
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Ali,

I agree that you have been fair to him. Too fair, as far as I'm concerned which is why I, as well as others, repeatedly remind you to stop making excuses for him.

You are absolutlely right in that this is a place for you to come to share YOUR feelings, YOUR perceptions, YOUR progress, as well as YOUR set backs.

This site isn't about his side of the story. It is about helping you sort through your feelings during your recovery from codependency.

If he is so concerned about his side of the story.....any Coda meeting, AA, Alanon, therapist, etc.....would be happen to listen to it I'm sure. All he has to do is go and talk.

I'm fairly certain that we, as outsiders looking in, probably have a pretty accurate picture of who he is. But it doesn't have to be that way if HE decides to do something about it.

Also, I believe that you have been pretty honest about how you feel you have contributed to the problems in your relationship.....to the point that you take on far too much blame onto yourself for his actions. Just my opinion....of course.

Take care,

Love,
Lolli

September 14, 2005
9:09 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

I would hate it so much if my h wanted to read what I've written here. The first time I posted here it was soooooo hard to reveal my hurting.
If I knew he was reading, I would not feel free to say everything I thought. Because when he is drinking, he takes all the vulnerabilities and the openness that I have shown and throws it back in my face. I needed a safe place to sort through feelings.

I am beginning to think that couples who are trying to repair huge breeches of trust might be living in la-la land.
If the counseling and the confidences just become another game of one-up-manship, what point is there in it?

September 14, 2005
9:10 pm
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lolli,

thanks - I agree with you totally.

I think that he will respect my right to be here - cuz of this whole privacy thing he has in his head - but even if he doesn't - I am not gonna get run off.

I know I am more or less resigned to this ending - but not ready to pull the plug yet.

I have one more thing I am willing to try - but we are both going thru the motions of trying to decide if it's even worth it.

We both realize that living together is hindering our progress in so many ways. But add in that he is also trying to make a go of a real estate career, and get his finances in order - and because all of these are occurring in a state two hours away - he has alot of his plate - not making excuses - cuz if I had my way, I would be top priority - but he has proven I am not - that he is desperate to have all three as his top priority - and we all know how that shakes out in the end. I know in my heart that he is going to snap and one of the priorities is gonna suffer - it kills me to know that there is a good chance it will be our relationship. He may surprise me tho....cuz he knows, and agrees that, the real estate he can go back to - the relationship he can't.

We both agree we would be better off living alone - and that the stress he has from trying ot juggle all three is non-productive - that when he is stressed by real estate not going well, his relationship suffers, when the relationship suffers, he is stressed and the careers suffer - and in a vicious cycle - he is trying to eat the elephant in one damn bite.

We may not go to couple's counseling - right now I have stepped back and am letting him work thru his feelings and let him decide if it's worth it. I'll try it if he is willing - but I am not doing all the work.

most people wonder why I am gonna do this - but I think we can all understand the drive to try one last thing before we go. And because he is codependent too - if we go to therapy together, and it doesn't work - both of us can agree to walk away without looking back or trying to go back - that we have exhausted everything and there is no other way to make it work and we have a professional's opinion on it too. It will make no contact go ALOT smoother I think.

anyway, I am rambling - bottom line is, I think things are okay for now - and we'll just take it one day at a time.

like littlesteps is doing - one step at a time - she could leave today - but she won't cuz she wants to keep her fear under control - same here on some level.

September 14, 2005
9:23 pm
Avatar
lollipop3
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Ali,

I understand what you are saying and I think the only thing that I (personally) would disagree with is the couples counseling. I guess on the one hand, if he is willing than I would probably go for it. On the other hand, I don't know how much good it will do if you haven't healed YOURSELVES before you try to heal the relationship.

I don't know for sure, perhaps that's something you could discuss with your therapist.

I agree with your statement about taking one day a time. I have learned in Alanon that sometimes the best decision is no decision. As I've said to others here, it is when we make choices out of despair that we second guess ourselves and return to unhealthy situations. We need to take the time to figure out exactly what we want and to truely accept our realities before we can make sound choices that we can live with.

Always remember....Progress, not perfection.

Love,
Lolli

September 14, 2005
9:53 pm
Avatar
LovesPurple2760
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ali,

I'm so hurt for you. I actually have tears in my eyes and a huge lump in my throat as I read your posts. The audacity of some people. The sad thing is I can see my ex doing the very same thing. However, he would have done the poor, poor pitiful me, I wish I was dead, I don't deserve to live routine after reading my posts.

Never did I get a phone call that my ex didn't ask who was that (ever so nicely) or was that so and so. Control, control, control. That's what it is all about to some. They try and try to control your feelings, your moods, your lives, your friends, etc.

Please hang in there and keep your chin up. We are all here for you any time as we all know you are here for us. I know for me you have helped me many times with your advice and support.

Love,
Loves

September 15, 2005
8:00 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lolli - I think that if I had a healthy relationship - and felt I was actually getting satisfaction in one area of my life, alot of other problems would get better too - I know esteem comes from within - but if I show myself I can maintain something like this - it would help me feel good.

also - I have chosen no decision cuz I am waiting to see what he decides. At first, this sounds stupid - but the reality is - there are so many turns this relationship can still take -well, only two turns, but there are alot of decisions he has to make and it can go in any way.

he went to counseling - she suggested ideas on middle grounds for us - from the privacy issues, trust issues and even the clothing. I gave no reply on any of it - I know he has alot on his mind - he wants his cake and eat it too - and eventually something has to give - and I am curious of what it will be - he has not offered to accept their middle ground either - so I don't even know where he stands and he isn't talking - just thinking.

the longer he takes to make his decision, or take the steps towards resolving this, the more resolved I am that it has to end...I have put alot of time and effort into this and I simply am running out of steam and interest.

as far as couple counseling to heal the relationship before we heal ourselves - I am only going to couples counseling to learn to communicate in a HEALTHY way - my therapy comes first - but the problem is that during our own courses of therapy - we will can't seem to communicate - sometimes I think I am doing everything right and he is not on the same page, then sometimes he is the one that is right and I am being the stubborn one - so the only reason I am going to couple's counseling is so that we can have a type of mediator to help us realize how to meet eye to eye and how to agree on the goals and help us hash that out - in the end, my needs come first, so even if couple's counseling says to do one thing - if I don't feel that's in my best interest, I will say so and not follow their advice - even if it is for the good of the relationship - the relationship takes the back seat to my needs.

anyway - we both agree that it's probably better to be separate during all this - but he is being stubborn and doesn't want to take the easy road and realizes if he does our relations hip is over and no going back and I am just biding my time waiting to see what shakes out. May turn out to be a waste of time - but I spent three years with an alcoholic - and at least, this time promises to maybe be better in the end, if therapy and change happens...so we'll see.

one day at a time - and not gonna make a decision until my head is totally clear.

I have days I want out so bad - but I have not made any move to make it happen - he says I am sabotaging things, but I think he just wants to think I am - cuz I am not - I am just NOT working as hard as I used to to make it all happy and wonderful and peaceful and easy for us - cuz I am done wtih doing too much work with little reward. That part of me is done and I think that scares him - cuz I think he misses that part of me...and that's why he said he didn't ask me to change and he loved me the way I was - he misses that, and doesn't remember the bad that went along with it - just that I loved him no matter how much he messed up and always worked hard to make his life easier. Not doing it now - if I am sad, angry or hurt, I am not covering it with a smile and batch of brownies.

September 15, 2005
10:22 am
Avatar
Anonymous
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

lightbulb moment - why am I waiting around???

I promise myself today that I will not wait around for this to resolve itself - I will stay busy, focus on me and do things I want to do, not go home and sit on the couch staring at him waiting for him to talk and make a decision.

life goes one - I'm not gonna sit by while he struggles to make up his mind - screw it.

September 15, 2005
11:03 am
Avatar
taj64
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Ali, It seems you have been waiting a long time to get this resolved. I so want you to have something better than what you have right now. It is going to take time. When I separated from my husband (ex), it was ongoing process of back and forth decision (in my mind) whether to stay in it. He was not changing the one thing I had wanted him to do. Picking that over our relationship. It was hard to live this way. It was one event that broke the camel's back and silly one. I went through the process of changing the locks. I could not do this on my own. My family came to help sort of like an intervention or otherwise I would never have gone through it. It was like I was in a numb state over it, yet sad that I had to do this. I felt like a bad person for doing this. But after awhile i was relieved. It took time to get over it but not so long. Now this second time around in my last relationship with the married guy I had yet another destructive relationship in that it was addictive for me to be in it. Anyway I do understand what you are going through right now. A lot of time when people come to a decision, it is because something happens to make that decision for us. Especially when we are indecisive because of the love involved. All it will take is one thing and suddendly your decision is made. What do you think it will take for you? I just hate to see you living the same way everyday like this.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
29
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110976
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38561
Posts: 714257
Newest Members:
nina1985, February, lisabaker, robertwalker, Why.., Why.
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information