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Should I Give Him Another Chance or Run Like the Wind? Moon & Stars
November 15, 2005
8:50 pm
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Dear Cyber Friends:

I would like to express a heartfelt thanks to everyone on the AAC Board. I have been silently reading for months. Your experience and wise advice have sustained me through some very dark months of an emotionally abusive relationship.

For the first time, I am reaching out for advice from those who have been in similar situations to mine or those with professional experience.

My (former) bf was sexually abused by a female family member starting at a very young age. He did not seek treatment for his abuse until after we met about 5 years ago. He suffers from all the effects of abuse including intimacy issues and confusion about his sexual orientation, which he only revealed to me this year. I also believe that he is or was a sex addict.

To compound issues, he also suffers from a number of chronic physical ailments, as well as depression.

Further complicating matters, we come from different cultural backgrounds. His is a very traditional eastern culture with rigid religious traditions, whereas I was raised in the west, although in a conservative family household.

I have broken up numerous times with him because he has intentionally excluded me from his life--compartmentalizing different aspects of his life. And because he ran away each time we were planning marriage.

I ended our relationship about six weeks ago because of his inability to commit as well my concerns about his fidelity. I had not contacted him since then.

He contacted me today and wants to get back together. He wants to fly back and marry me. We are currently in different countries. He has been in treatment for his abuse for some time now and says he has made progress.

I have been working on my own codependency issues. My boundaries are improved but I am concerned about my ability to recognize and avoid "charmer/abusers".

I care very much for this person. I know that most of his issues are a direct result of his victimization as a young child. Nevertheless, he has hurt me repeatedly over the years because of those issues.

Should I risk it again or not.

With appreciation for your thoughts and shared experiences.

Moon & Stars

November 15, 2005
9:00 pm
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exoticflower
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My own big focus is on emotional abuse moon, and i wanted to ask you a little bit more about that. Is the emotional abuse still happening? Is he getting help for it? WHat effects is it having on you? I personally kept thinking if I just worked on me the abuse would lessen, but instead it drove me practically crazy, I became withdrawn, reactonary, paranoid, scared, and self loathing. Any abuse one allows sort of leaves the door open a crack for a little more and then a little more...no one deserves to be abused, and emotional or phsychological abuse is as much battery and has most of the same effects of physical abuse, just less physical proof.

Also, are your fears about his sexuality and fidelity based on some past experiances? If so what has he done to move foreward or grow to change that treatment of you?

I personally believe that if you have doubts, especially so many, you should focus on each one of them honestly before concidering marriage. See which ones are rooted in reality and which are just fears. Concerns that are valid and come from somewhere real are also known as red flags, things to really watch out for, address, aknowlege, etc.

((((I'm so sorry)))) that a decision like marriage has to be something painful for you right now. There is a lot of good advice and wisdom to be found here.

November 15, 2005
9:59 pm
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Dear Exoticflower:

Thank you for responding and for your good questions.

The emotional abuse is what pushed me to break it off each time. But I withstood a lot of pain. It had many of the effects on me that you list. Emotional abuse is damaging and the effects need to be healed.

His infliction of emotional abuse was, I believe, a result of his own fears of intimacy. While he purposely excluded me, I believe it was because he feared getting too close to me. Closeness made him uncomfortable. His abuse was reactionary but not excusable.

My current concerns are based on past behavior. I do believe people can change if they themselves choose to do so. I now know that I need to see his words backed up by changed behavior. People do hide who and what they really are to gain acceptance and sometimes, it is difficult to discern the truth.

I have not seen him for some time and your advice is good to explore each of my concerns when/if I see him to determine if those issues remain real. It is very difficult to reestablish trust when that delicate thread has been broken.

I will never let emotional abuse happen again to me. I have learned much by reading and researching abuse issues. Abuse is insidious as you state. It seems to continue until the victim stops it.

I would like to share the following with you from "The Four Agreements" by Dr. Don Miquel Ruiz. This passage had great resonance with me.

In your whole life nobody has ever abused you more than you have abused yourself. And the limit of your self-abuse is exactly the limit that you will tolerate from someone else. If someone abuses you a little more than you abuse yourself, you will probably walk away from that person. But if someone abuses you a little less than you abuse yourself, you will probably stay in the relationship and tolerate it endlessly.

If you abuse yourself very badly, you can even tolerate someone who beats you up, humiliates you, and treats you like dirt. Why? Because in your belief system you say, "I deserve it. This person is doing me a favor by being with me. I'm not worthy of love and respect. I'm not good enough."

We have the need to be accepted and to be loved by others, but we cannot accept and love ourselves. The more self-love we have, the less we will experience self-abuse. Self-abuse comes form self-rejection, and self-rejection comes from having an image of what it means to be perfect and never measuring up to that ideal. Our image of perfection is the reason we reject ourselves; it is why we don't accept ourselves the way we are, and why we don't accept others the way they are.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Moon & Stars

November 15, 2005
10:06 pm
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exoticflower
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Moon & Stars, thank you so much for sharing that. I've started reading The Four Agreements a couple of times, but always seem to get stopped by myself (just wasn't in that place within myself to really let go and look foreward yet, I don't think). This is something I could really stand to see tonight to put my own focus back on myself and my own issues.

Good luck with seeing him, I do hope that it brings you the answers you need. You seem to be goinginto it with your eyes wide open and your feet firmly planted.

November 15, 2005
10:21 pm
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Exoticflower,

Good luck to you too! I appreciate your encouragement!

December 22, 2005
8:58 am
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Giving him another chance was a BIG mistake.

He has not changed nor has his destructive behavior. I cannot help feeling sorry for him despite all the pain that he has caused me. He is a truly sad person, suffering from both physical and mental illness. I know that he was wounded by childhood abuse and then by multiple abusers subsequently. Children must be protected from abuse because the effects are so damaging to the child and to society.

The good news is that everything dissolved in a little over a month. Apparently, people with these issues can learn to cycle through their patterns more quickly with practice.

The bad news is that I am hurting and in emotional pain all over again from the lies, exclusion, rages and emotional abuse. What a Christmas present!

Perhaps I needed one last try before finally walking away from this person knowing that he would not change.

I hope that now I may fully heal. It is almost like starting the process all over again but this time with more knowledge and coping skills.

I wanted to share some resources that have been helpful to me.

The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships by Patrick J. Carnes (the author of Out of the Shadows)

And the site:

http://www.heartless-bitches.c.....buse.shtml

Wishing everyone health, healing and a beautiful new year.

Moon & Stars

December 22, 2005
10:43 am
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gofigure
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OMG Moon...that website is scary. I am continually second-guessing myself regarding my relationship and whether it is abusive. years ago before drug/alcohol treatment it was abusive, both physically and otherwise, but since then he has not layed a hand on me. He has however a terrible temper and has been known to rant and rave and scream/swear at me, though not real frequently. But the subtle forms of abuse this website describes showed me that some of what I experience in this marriage is indeed abuse of an emotional nature, but oh-so-subtle as to hardly recognize it. But at least it confirms in my mind that what I have felt about some (many?) of his behaviors are not behaviors of a loving partner. Thank you for sharing.

~go

December 22, 2005
11:12 am
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Dear Gofigure:

Thank you for responding. I am glad to hear that your physical abuse has stopped. That surely shows some progress.

But as others have discussed on this site, emotional abuse can be just as devastating to a person's well being and self esteem as physical abuse. Repeated abuse raises one's tolerance for more abuse. I know this from experience.

The article is frightening, and it is one of the reasons that I broke up with my bf. I recognized that I was being emotionally abused.

My ex bf also has a terrible temper.
Dr. Carnes (Betrayal Bond) writes of one patient that terror and intimidation were "coping skills" that he had learned to deal with a physically abusive family.

Some many abusers were abused. Until they deal with those issues, they will continue to abuse.

Take care of yourself. And trust your instincts. Love is not painful.

December 22, 2005
1:20 pm
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Wish you a peaceful christmas!

I know that hurts but even if is hurtful is better to break up a relationship that doesnt work and where you can only feel bad with yourself!

No, love cant be painful. If some relationships are painful (the pain is much bigger than the pleasure) is better not going on ...

Each one of us only deserves the best, someone who truly loves us for what we are ...

Lot of good energies to you! Remember that nobody is alone - God is always with us !!!!!!!!!!!

December 22, 2005
1:49 pm
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Moon & Stars,

Sorry I didnt get your whole story...Sorry that you are dealing with this...I also had a boyfriend who I would go back and forth because of lack of commitment, also drinking and smoking pot. We dated 7 years and would break up 2x a year for a few months. Each time it was worse and the respect was lost.

December 22, 2005
1:54 pm
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Dear Believelove:

Thank you for your encouraging words and good wishes. They help.

You are correct in all that you write.

It is difficult not to have someone special to share with, especially this time of year.

Wishing you all the best for the coming year!

Moon & Stars

December 22, 2005
2:02 pm
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Dear Marlex:

You can see previous posts by clicking on "view all posts" at the top of the thread.

Not only does respect diminish, lack of trust became a major issue for me. There can be no solid relationship without trust.

Words are commitments and unfortuntely, my ex bf's words were just that "words." His actions did not follow up his words. It is hurtful and emotionally abuse.

Thank you for your response.

Moon & Stars

Moon & Stars

December 22, 2005
2:10 pm
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A very helpful article on intimacy called: From one couple to another: the gift of intimacy

http://www.ckwalsh.com/article.....couple.htm

I didn't realize or understand the intimacy issues that survivors of childhood sexual abuse suffer. My ex bf was dealing with this among many other problems.

The mountain that some must climb on a daily basis to function. I am in awe of all survivors of abuse. Your strength is inspiring.

Moon & Stars

December 22, 2005
2:25 pm
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Marlex
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Moon & Stars,

I read the first post...It sounds like something you should definitely let go...Too much baggage from the past and sounds like someone who will never make you happy or give you what you need.

I know its hard to let go as I am having a hard time myself (notice I dont say A VERY HARD time) but it all passes and we become stronger. Relationships are very hard and if you are with someone who is so badly damaged from his past..its even harder. Just be strong and have hope that one day you will be over this person and you will find someone who will love you and make you happy or contentment within yourself. TRUST is very important in a relationship...If you dont have trust..you will not be happy yourself because you will always wonder what he is doing and he will not be happy because you will always be on his case and be controlling and it will be a cause of friction

Take care and know that WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER and we will survive and be stronger.

December 22, 2005
3:29 pm
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Hi Moon and Stars, I am a guy and can relate to your bf side. I know every body say's run abuse is abuse and I agree but I also think if your bf admit's his issues and want's to do the work to heal you have a strong connection and are willing to work with him like counceling therapy and such mabe he can make change happen. I think with good communication trust and boundries a person well want to change and can.

December 22, 2005
3:41 pm
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According to the American Medical Association, domestic violence is a pattern of ANY kind of abuse.

Assault and battery is just one small aspect of domestic violence--it is not the defining nor even the most important element.

Most batterers do not sevrely injure their partners or beat them every day. For some, it is years of emotional abuse and just one or two episodes of physical violence.

Scientific research supports the idea emotional abuse also causes brain injury, in the form of neuronal cell death in the hippocampus, amygdala, and medial corpus callosum, as well as damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis.

If a person is not able or willing to address their abusive behavior as "abuse" then there is no hope for change.

The longer a victim is exposed to abuse, the greater the damage.

December 22, 2005
4:39 pm
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Marlex,

You are correct in your observations that he has a lot of issues. I am a patient person and educated myself on his issues. I was willing to work with him in counseling on those issues. But he was not able to go beyound intimacy and commitment issues. It is quite sad really. I believe we both suffered.

Waterman,

I agree with you that it depends if someone has the desire and love to work with someone who has abuse issues. Dealing with childhood sexual abuse issues is not easy. It complicates everything in a relationship. I was willing to do so. I'm afraid that either the abuse as well as trauma from war was too much for this man to handle. A tragedy, really. Thank you for your comments. I am concerned for all those returning from Iraq.

Worried Dad,

I have often been impressed by your research and knowledge of abuse issues. My ex bf has worked on his issues but perhaps it was too little too late. His fears are overwhelming.

I have actually done research on gender-based violence in other countries. It is a scourge on society and destroys so many lives.

In some countries, there is no safe haven for children, not home, school, public, anywhere.

In any way that we can, I believe that we need to increase awareness of abuse and try to reduce it.

I believe that I have been damaged by the emotional abuse. Nevertheless, through it all, I still feel love for that person. While I don't excuse the behavior, I can understand the roots of it. Perhaps we can all look beyond the bad and see the good before s/he was damaged.

Thank you all for your support. You are all very much appreciated.

Moon & Stars

December 23, 2005
1:06 pm
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I read the Heartless-bitches.com website you suggested and to my horror my ex was described to a T!!! He threw me out last week in an impulsive rage. Despite the emotional abuse I suffered, I gave him another chance because I was convinced that he had changed---it was apparently an act to get me back. Betrayal is painful the first time around, but when it happens again it is even worse. I wish I could be were you are. You accept that your ending for is for the best. I on the other hand understand that I haven't let go. I keep wishing he'll call me and come back to me. I can't imagine my life without him, but I was miserable during our last 5 weeks together. I am like a moth to flame. How do you get to the point of letting go? How much abuse, pain and disrespect does it take? Am I a masochist? I admire you for your strength. I am ashamed of my inability to let go of someone who hurt me so much over time. He blames me for being untrusting---blaming the victim- a typical abuser trait. My logic and my heart are at war. When will I find peace? I have NEVER felt more hopelessness and despair, not even after my divorce from him almost three years ago! I feel like I'm going crazy. He took away my hopes my dreams, my childlike innocence. I will never be the same again. I don't know how to start a new life. You are very couragous. I am simply a fool.

December 23, 2005
3:05 pm
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Dear Pathfinder:

I am so very sorry for your pain. It is wrenching. I know. No, you are not a fool and you have nothing to be ashamed of. It is not wrong to trust. It is wrong for someone you love to betray you.

Please hit view all posts to read a passage from "The Four Agreements" about self-abuse that I included in a previous posts.

I am working toward acceptance. I am not there yet. It is a grieving process and it takes time.

Some books that have been helpful to me are those that I mentioned in previous posts, especially Betrayal Bonds, Women Who Love to Much, and Melody Beattie's books. I keep rereading them to reinforce applicable points.

Also, a number of postings on AAC have been very helpful, especially the "Charmer" discussions and those about emotional abuse that you can search.

See also: Warning Signs that you are Dating a loser at http://www.mental-health-matte.....?artID=157

I read somewhere that the pain will stop when you make it stop! We need to take back our power and control of our lives. Physical, mental and emotional abuse MUST be dealbreakers in any relationship.

I am not so courageous. I have just endured too much pain to continue trying to make something work with a person who is not capable of an intimate relationship. I have trusted to many times and been betrayed too many times.

I too keep wishing that he would call back and that we could be together. But I hope and pray for the strength to resist that situation if it should occur again.

Another passage that has been helpful to me is the following: "YOU, do have to help yourself, take care of yourself and ask yourself why you have been (at least up til now) willing to put up with being hurt by the one that is supposed to love you? Love is not supposed to hurt. Love should not tear down. Love should build up."

We all deserve to be treated with love, care and respect. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Thank you for your support. It means a lot.

Moon & Stars

December 23, 2005
3:18 pm
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Worried Dad:

You wrote the following:

"Scientific research supports the idea emotional abuse also causes brain injury, in the form of neuronal cell death in the hippocampus, amygdala, and medial corpus callosum, as well as damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis."

What are the short &/or long-term results of such brain injury?

Moon & Stars

December 23, 2005
6:16 pm
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Moon&Stars,

I don't think they really know what affects the injuries have.

In children, it is suspected that the brain injury may lead to developing borderline personality disorder.

In adults, depression and long term, postraumatic symptoms may be the effect--reliving events, hypervigilance, sleep disorders.

The hyposthalamus-pituitary-adrenal system helps us mount a "fight or flight" response. Having prolonged high amounts of stress hormones like the steroid cortisol can probably produce posttraumatic stress symptoms, and also has been shown to cause damage to the DNA by inhibiting the production of an enzyme called telomerase. In other words, chronic abuse can literally, shorten your life by causing damage to the DNA of every cell in your body.

Your amygdala helps you sort and work with emotionally charged memories. Remember that PTSD sufferers can either block our memories or things remind one of the original trauma, and they can also be plagued with flashback. It seems like a kind of short circuit of your emotional memory system.

You would also expect some impariment of ability to sustain intimate relationships, if you cannot respond emotionally in normal ways.

December 25, 2005
5:49 pm
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Dear Worried Dad:

Thank you for taking the time to explain and respond. The information is helpful and appreciated.

This sounds all too familiar, unfortunately.

Empathy seems to be a problem. PTSD, hypervigilance, depression, self loathing are all in evidence. And definitely intimacy and commitment issues.

This person, who was the victim of sexual abuse, also seems to equate the need for emotional needs being met as controlling. He doesn't seem to be able to separate abuse from love or intimacy. He cannot separate friend from foe. Tragic.

How I wish that I knew the effects of sexual abuse on a person before becoming involved. I have the patience to work through the problems but his fear is overwhelming. I know that now, I need to take care of myself.

Abuse strikes at all levels of society. My ex bf is from a notable family, is brilliant, multilingual and has been responsible for thousands of others.

We have no idea of the backgrounds of our leaders. It is frightening. I shudder when I think of those that are making policy.

Moon & Stars

December 27, 2005
9:00 am
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Moon & Stars,

Thank you for your thoughful response. What is ACC? I purchased Betrayal Bonds and read the whole book in two days. In my case he was abused as a child, I was not. I seem to be getting worse with every passing day. The holidays were especially grueling. I had to force myself to go to work today, and even so I am unable to concentrate. I have no motivation. No matter were I go I have to fight the tears. The minute my eyes open I feel a gut wrenching pain. My family has grown weary of hearing me talk about the same thing over and over and over...I feel irretreiveably broken. Every waking moment is pain. He didn't call over the holidays. I wanted him to call me. I am very sick. HE IS NEVER COMING BACK. I shouldn't want him back. How do I let go of him? How I let go of the obsession? How do I rebuild a life? I have been having scary suicidal ideation. I don't see a way out of my pain. I look around me and I feel like an outsider looking in on some sort of surreal nightmare. Time is supposed to heal, yet for me every passing day is the same as the day before, or even more painful. I am completely unmotivated. Everything I do is out of obligation. I fear loosing my job. Then I would loose everything. Thank you so much for reading this. I am very lonely and isolated. I don't know what I would do without the additional support that this sight provides me. How are you doing today?

December 27, 2005
10:32 am
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Dear Pathfinder:

The acronym. ACC = allaboutcounseling,this website.

If your ex was abused as a child, then he may also abusive, which is understandable but NOT excusable.

Think back into your experience and consider what thinking, ideas or beliefs you allow you to accept bad treatment by another person. Why do you think that you deserve no better than this, when in fact you deserve the best?

I have thought back and I understand my thinking and why I have allowed it to happen to me. I am working to correct these issues and establish better boundaries.

Did you suffer from emotional abuse as a child? Emotional abuse takes many forms.

Take a look at http://www.recovery-man.com for information on recovering from trauma. We have indeed been traumatized by painful relationships.

Yes, the holidays were difficult. I could not control my tears and therefore did not join my family celebration. I am in better control emotionally now.

If you are having suicidal ideation you need to get professional assistance as soon as possible. Do not delay. Your life is too precious. You also need medical assistance if you are clinically depressed. Do not try to cope alone if you are feeling so badly.

You need to stop the emotional bleeding. And then you will be able to more clearly be able to cope with severing ties with a person that is causing you so very much anguish.

I know that you feel lonely and isolated. Try to do things that engage your mind and body. Do you work out? Running and swimming help me to feel better. Go to a movie, go out with friends.

Do anything to replace the thoughts of your pain. The mind can only hold one thought at a time. When my obsessive thoughts start about my exbf, sometimes I say "stop" aloud to myself. Change your thoughts.

Your pain is a grieving process and the only way out is through. Take your time and feel your feelings.

You can control what you do, what you put up with and what you will not. It is difficult to do after accepting bad treatment for so long, but we can learn new patterns.

Take care of yourself. You are precious in all the world.

Moon & Stars

December 27, 2005
10:59 am
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My primary doctor gave me an anti-depressant, Lexapro samples. I'm on day five--obviously not working yet. I'm the type that likes to take meds. unless absolutely necessary---I did so begrudgeingly at the advice of my mental health couselor. So I am "under treatment". I just don't see a way out. How long will my life be this hellish?? My head hurts from ruminating so much. I've been depressed in the past, but NEVER like this. Why don't I accept reality? Everyone tells me how lucky I am to be free of the narcissistic as-ho-- and remind me that there are worse things in life such as sudden death of a loved one, or finding out one has a terminal disease etc. Seems to those around me that I am over-reacting to my loss. So I have guilt on top of my depression. How do I think about something else? Easier said than done. I use to work out regularly---i stopped about 3 weeks ago. After he left my world came to a screeching halt. Nothing seems to matter. My focus has been trying to find a way to make the pain stop. How many tears will I have yet to cry??? You say the only way is through...but how long?????? How will my life suddenly find meaning and joy?

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