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She drives me Nuts (Help)
March 9, 2000
5:51 pm
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pram
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I am a married man and I have two kids with my wife. However, 3 and a half years ago I had an affair with my secretary and got her pregnant the girl is now 2 1/2 years old and is the love of my life. I wife forgives me and says that she accepts the girl. However, we were separated for almost a year during which time I lived for about 2 months with my ex-secretary (the girls mother). I have been on and off cheating with her for all this time but I have been unable to maintain a steady relationship with her because she just DRIVES ME NUTS becuase she just talks and talks for hours saying things that make me feel guilty but ulitmately get me mad.

I have returned home to my wife and have been with her for about four months and have tried to stay away from the ex-secretary but she just keeps trying to get me back she says that she loves me which I don't doubt but she pisses me off so often that we argue almsot everyday.

I have told her that I just want to be the father of the girl and that I don't want to have any relationship with her. Unfortunately I have told her this same story so many times she still tries to get me into bed and she is often succesfull at it.

Now my question is, is she co-dependent, is she just plain old crazy or am I co-dependent or just a complete asshole.

I need to find a way to finally break up with her and stay off the bed because the constant arguing hurts my family and kids.

March 9, 2000
6:31 pm
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VRJ
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All three of the adults in this situation are probably codependent. No, you are not an asshole, just very, very confused. The only way to make things better is to heal yourself. You can't fix them, the relationship or the past, only yourself. You have made the first step by looking and asking and recognizing that something is wrong.

I'm sure Broc will be along to put into words, hard words, but true words, some advice. If not, read through some of the posts in the other threads about codep.

God be with you.

March 9, 2000
6:55 pm
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janes
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Yes I agree with vrj that you are all probly codependent. You can only fix you. Perhaps you are even a sex addict. whatever...as a person who truly cares deeply for children I wish the three of you would take into serious consideration the damage we adults can do to children when we act and react so stupidly.

You might consider getting professional help. Or a male chastity belt when you visit your ex secretary...or meeting your daughter in a public place.

If you truly care for this little girl you will give her the most honest male role model you can ...with morals and values and ethics etc.

It will benefit your other children as well.

March 10, 2000
1:46 am
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BROC
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pram,

Hmmmmmm. Boy, what a pickle you have gotton yourself into!? I really hate to use the old cliche', but thats what happens when you let the little pram do the taking instead of the big pram its attached too!

So, what to do? First, are you an asshole. Well, I guess that depends on who you are talking too. To your secretary, probably. And, I would imagine your wife, at times has probably uttered the word. But in a way you are, and a way your aren't.

You are to anyone that reads your post OR that knows whats going on with you, if they are the un-educated ones who really don't understand why you do what you do. So, they with their ignorance, label you, and put you on a shelf there. Its easier.

For me, and others, we understand why you do what you do. I have lived it myself, and the others, well, have lived it or heard this story before. Its really common. Differeent players, same plot.

OK, with that said, we need to get to know some names here. First, lets get cuddley with the name ADDICT. Yes your an addict. Sex addict to be exact.

Your partners are love addicts, or relationship addicts, whichever you prefer.

Yes, you are codependent, VERY, and so is the wife and girlfriend. No, its no coincidence. Cod. attract other codependents. EVERYTIME!

Now, with that said,(I jump around a lot) about this arguing hurting your family and kids. News flash Einstein, they were hurt long ago. Your wife, kids, the parents, all of them. The arguing between you and your g.f. are the LEAST of the problem. What you have done with the g.f. looks bad, but is nothing compared to whats below the surface! Chaos. Destruction. You are leaving a wake of misery that you can't yet see. The arguing you speak of is just one of the many signs of greater things yet to come.

Listen up compadre. Go back and read what you wrote. Imagine this was your dad, or best friend writing this. On second thought, don't. You got this shit from your family system, and its supported (enabled) by your friends, etc. I know, I did the same things as you. EXACTLY! Without the child though.

ANYWAY, your situation is completely chaotic. COMPLETELY. However, you have made a HUGE move, step, whatever you want to call it, by coming here and searching for an answer. That is the first step....awareness!

Now, next up it a one way ticket to a therapist office. Do not do anything anymore until you get into see one. WHY? Because you will fuck it up. How do I know this? Because you wouldnt have this shit going on usless you fucked things up. SO, again, THERAPY. Plan on at least a year, once a week. I am not shitting you the least. I have been down the road you are starting. And take it from me, if you don't get help now, YOUR LIFE WILL REMAIN, POSITIVELY, ABSOLUTELY, A PILE OF SHIT NOT EVEN A MAGOT WOULD PLAY ON!

Now, before I say anymore, I say all of this with love and empathy. VRJ knows me. She calls me the hammer. The reason I say what I say the way I say is it seems to really get people moving. I could sit here and cuddle up with you, telling you it will "work itself out", etc. but it won't. You need to get off your ass, stick your pecker in your shorts, weld a steel belt around it, stay a country mile away from the extemely dysfucntional secretary, a block away from the wife, and get some help. If you don't, you will continue to wreck havoc on everyone's lives. And I promise you that your kids are already affected. Kids are 100 times more attuned to their enviornment than any adult! Look it up. Its true.

Bottom line. Your dysfuncitnal, but, their is hope, ONLY if you get some help. No parental advice, or trip to barnes and noble, etc. will rid you of your ill. Your sexual addiction, codependency, etc. are only symptoms of a much deeper problem. Again, please take it from a guy that has been there. I understand your problem, and really sympathize. But regardless, you DO have a choice when you do the things you do. You didn't know better before, and now you do.

Should you continue your behavior from this point on, then, sir, you become a true asshole.

Don't repeat the same mistake. For if you don't learn know, I promise you, you will!

B-

March 10, 2000
1:58 am
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Broc, you are so awesome :O)

I think anyone who cheats is an asshole since it is hurting children and the women, but I don't want to judge you...I mean obviously you have issues if you are that confussed, and I think you made a good choice to look into it, and be open minded enough to ask for advice.
You need to stop going back and fourth, but I also would say therapy is a good option...co-dependents control through making you feel guilty, and you control them by allowing them to make you feel guilty.
It's a twisted web, and someone has to break the cycle.

March 10, 2000
4:16 pm
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pram
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Good I am going into therapy I have an appointment next wednesday So I'll let you know what happens.

Now how do I get her to fix herself so she can stop trying to get me into bed and find herself a boyfriend and continue her life?

March 10, 2000
4:44 pm
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VRJ
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YOU CAN'T!!! End of story. You can't change her, fix her or get her to do anything. FORGET ABOUT IT. The only person you can do anything about is yourself. And you WILL need all of your energy for yourself. So don't even try to change her. When you realizeand accept this part, you will have moved on to the next point in your own healing!

March 10, 2000
4:44 pm
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BROC
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Pram,

You don't. Leave her alone. If you learn nothing else, learn this.

You can NEVER EVER change another person. NEVER! They may change for a short time to appease you, BUT IT WON"T last.

Re-read my post to you. The things that cause you to do what you do, and the things that cause her to do what she does, are unique to you, and unique to her, as is the rest of us!

Those "things" are what cousneling gets rid of. You have been chosen. You have finally realized that you needed to do it diffeently because your life was shit. She has not, and no amount of good looks, great sex, or money will ever change that for the long term, and after all, thats what we are shooting for, right?! Right. So, as a newly discovered codependent, you need to become familar with a term know as "boundries". A boundry is just what the name implies. For example, let say her name is Joan. You would say, "Joan, I have discovered some things about myself I am not prooud of, and have made a solid decision to change. Now, I want no contact from you other than to arrange to see our daughter. I am not asking you, I am in fact telling you. No exceptions. That is a real boundry.

Now, the problem you will deal with is this. Jesus, I can jsut see it (cause I went through this six months ago). You will say this, and this will sound as foreign as speaking russian. You have probably said this stuff before, but only to involk a response from her, such as getting her to chase you harder, or to punish her. Don't worry, we have all done it. Control and manipulation, the trademarks of codependents!

Anyway, your little guy will be tugging at you telling you one more trip around the block would be OK, but don't. You will only be backstepping.

Let us know how it goes!

B-

March 11, 2000
9:38 am
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pram
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Aha?????????

Now I'm stuck. You see I am very concerned of the kind of environment my daughter will live in. And I know her mom will go ahead and find someone just like me or maybe even worse. Now do you think it is appropriate to advise, force her or coerce her to seek counseling or should I just go to court and seek custody of the girl??

Stuck.

PRAM

March 11, 2000
12:33 pm
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janes
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You are never STUCK. You should have been concerned about a child's environment BEFORE you made another child. Yes...the environment may be bad. or worse.

IT IS NEVER ADVISABLE TO TRY TO FORCE SOMEONE TO CHANGE--IT WILL NEVER WORK!!

Will you puleeeeze try to get your own shit in one sock before you try controlling all the other people around you. what if your wife doesn't feel obligated to care for one more kid...and one you concieved out of selfishness with another woman.
Plus your ex-sec. would still get visitation probly so you would still have to work on not sleeping with her on those occasions.
Every thing does NOT have to be solved today. Your indiscretion has paved the way for some years of working hard to make things better for others you have wronged. GET YOURSELF FIXED FIRST!!!!!

Stop being so controlling...would you just control your self for right now...stop planning on all the bad things that are going to happening.

Maybe if you get your self healthy your ex sec will be moved to get help herself...but you can not force it. It will not work. Besides...she may pick someone better than you too.

March 15, 2000
3:33 pm
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BROC
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Janes,

Pick someone better than him? How could that happen?

B-

March 16, 2000
6:37 pm
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janes
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Well....he's so all fired worried about her picking someone worse....like he is such a great catch and jsut the person to be taking care of all those kids...and making judgements like..."what if she picks someone worse"

She might at least pick someone not married.
It just ticked me off to think he thinks HE is the answer to the problem when he caused it. Why be so worried aoubt a poor baby now...little late.
She'll probly pick someone the same...but...never know.
j-

March 16, 2000
7:35 pm
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BROC
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Janes-

Just as in our debate on the other thread, this seems to kind of go against what we have been preaching here.

If your unhealthy, dysfunctinal, whatever you want to call it you WILL repeat your patterns....be attracted too and attract others that match your disfunction.

So, I know is symantics, but I listen to every word. I am curious why you said she would probqably pick someone the same "BUT YOU NEVER KNOW". Yes we do know, or so I thought. Do you know someting I don't?

Take a deep breath!

Smiles.
B-

PS - Heres a thought. Do you think that rule of repeating, etc. only applies to certain people or situations, or that it applies to all of us all of the time until we get fixed up? From reading your advice, it seems you believe, as do I, that you will repeat until you get some therapy to stop those behaviros that make you repeat. A rule WE ALL LIVE by.

March 17, 2000
7:18 am
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janes
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Yes. Broc.. I do know what you don't know but you must send me one gazillion dollars or I won't tell.

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOno

I will not debate you in this thread.

Ther is a continuum of dysfunctional...she may pick someone slightly less dysfunctinal..not that it will work but the point was...who is HE to be saying he's better than what she will pick.

No it repeats til we get fices.

March 17, 2000
1:57 pm
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BROC
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Janes,

is that last line "No, it reapeats til we get FIXED", as in we will repeat our patterns untill we fixed?

Just a little clarifiction.

Hugs-

B-

March 18, 2000
9:27 am
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janes
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yes fices as in fingers on the wrong keys.

Yeah...repeat til we get fixed but at what point of fixed do we begin choosing healthier? Isn't "getting fixed" a process, on going and never done?

March 19, 2000
6:02 am
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hazza
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It is not automatic that you pick another co-dep, you can pick anyone! but becuase the non co-dep that you end up with has healthy values and you don't then you end up with the relationship not always working, unless you change yourself because of it, so you may find that you can be in what is in fact a quite healthy relationship,but dont realse and still go off with someone who is more dysfuncional if they come along becuase that seems more "real " ie familiar to you that what you had before. But some people can end up with another quite healthy person, even if they themselves are co-dep, but i bet they will always be looking for problems or feel that they are unloved in that relationship becuase the perosn is not displaying love in the (unhealthy)way that they (the co-dep) belives is real love.

March 20, 2000
12:38 am
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BROC
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I will agree that INITIALLY a co-dep person can get with a non co-dep person, but its not going to last more than a few sitdowns.

If the non-cod has done their work, and has really practiced their new learned stuff, they WILL NEVER hook up with a co-dep person for any real lenght of time.

Remember folks, if you have done any homework at all, you can now see the signs! Not just read this shit, but really put it into practice! I would NEVER hook up with a girl like shannon again. I KNOW TO MUCH NOW! I am not saying I am done yet, but after a VERY intense year of schooling, I know what is healthy and what isn't.

YOu can argue with me all day long about ANYTHING is possible. Bullshit! That is for those that really don't believe in what is taught, or those that want to believe it because they are too scared or lazy to really work, and therefore they cling to the fantasy that the rel. they are in "can" work. I know MANY on this site who are working their asses off, but yet cling to the hope that the idiots they are with are going to miraculously get better despite YEARS of being a fuckup.

B-

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