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SEX - what does it mean?
January 13, 2002
12:36 pm
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artist 2
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ok here's the deal: I'm confused because he wants to be with me, spend time hanging out, yet he doesn't want to have sex. He told me he can't go there emotionally - with anyone, not just me. I'm confused because sex confuses things for him. He thinks finding someone who will wait to have sex would be better for him. I wonder since we've already had sex if that person can't be me. Is this one of those cases where I should just ask him?

So what does it mean to have sex? Is there a way to enjoy a relationship without it?

January 13, 2002
12:45 pm
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verte_femme
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Artist--Just from my own experience, sex for some can be a very emotional and bonding experience. For others, it's more like living for the moment. Apparently this friend of yours is of the former group. I think if you're prepared for any answer, that you should ask. Just think some first.

January 13, 2002
12:46 pm
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Molly
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Sure there is, and that is why it is so important to have the qualities in a relationship that has nothing to do with sex. This is the religious guy ? He may have learned the complications of jumping into bed with out doing the rest of the work, it really can cloud the issue of mutual goals, morals yada yada yada.

But how old is he, you know they do get less interested, its not like in their teens twenties and thirties where all they need is a good strong wind, and place to put it. He may have learned the difference between getting off, and making love ?

If this is a man that you want to go into the future with, then talk to him damn it, hear what he has to say, let him hear you. Be clear.
Just got to trust me, that as we become seniors har har har, sex--- well yea we have really fond memories, and we miss it, and we want it, but its not the same. The lack of hormones in men and women effect that, and God forbid half the Rx out there, kill what sex drive is left. The comfort of a loyal companion, one that hears you, one that you can share with, curl up on the couch and watch a movie with share a good dinner with, count on to be there, or help with bills, traumas, good times, fixing the toilet, stopping off at the market on the way home, holding your hand in the movies, folding the towles, reminding you that your out of dish soap, planning a cross country trip with, now that is the stuff that counts.

January 13, 2002
5:40 pm
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pam g fu
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artist2

you don't have to have sex to enjoy a relationship with a man, when the time is right then it will happen until then enjoy the friendship and the companionship that you two can enjoy, right now i just have no sex drive or inclination at all i knjow that is some of the side effects from the anti-depressant but i am just not interested and would love to have a relationship with someone that doesn't require sex and would like to do the huggy kissy thing and just be there for me

January 13, 2002
7:20 pm
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I am having issues with sex lately. I have always tried to convince myself that it was me that wanted sex more than the guy and that if I was quick to give it up than I was beating them to the prize. They could not take advantage of me if I gave it up before they could manulipate it out of me. I always felt as if I were not good enough to be liked for who I am, just for what I could do for them sexually. I was always made to pay the price for being in a relationship with a guy. I felt that if I paid that price then I would get what I ultimatly wanted, companionship. Well it turns out that my way of thinking is totally screwed up. Sure I have low self-esteem, and I can blame that on being sexually abused when I was younger, or I can blame it on a number of other things, but it does not really even matter why, it just matters that I realize what is going on and now I am trying to change that. Anyway, I am not in a sexual relationship with anyone right now. It feels odd to have to see what my other attributes are.

January 13, 2002
9:31 pm
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artist 2
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Blondie, talking about - and knowing what our feelings were - to talk about was a problem before and still is. Working on it...

Gypsy, I know what you mean about beating them to it by giving it up - so they wouldn't take advantage. I see what you are talking about here. So, you thought that giving into sex first was a way of getting companionship? What about your thinking is screwed up?

January 13, 2002
10:04 pm
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Artist 2,
How much do you know about him? It sounds like you've known him a long time. Was he violated at one time? What's with the emotional thing, is someone else involved? Those would be the ?'s I'd ask. Another is, are meds/drugs involved? Like someone else conveyed, communication is the best thing, especially if you are looking at a long-term relationship with this guy. If you're not ready to be open to him about this, are you ready to live with the way he is? I know, tough questions.
I wish you the best! 🙂
~SuzyQ

January 14, 2002
7:59 am
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artist 2
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Hi Suzy,

We've known each other for a while... He's from a very religious family. I only just found out the only publications he grew up with were religious! Man, I'm not surprised about that. His college education was the first exposure to anything mainstream. He was never violated or molested... He's not involved with anyone and doesn't want to be. He says he just can't open up to it. He's never been on drugs either. Oh, I'm very open with him about my questions - maybe too much for his taste. He deals with shame and guilt a lot. So, I think he hides some things because he's ashamed. He's always told me he felt "inadequate" and I think he sees me as this worldly sophisticated woman (well, gosh) and he doesn't feel up to being my partner. I think that's probably it. But, he's got the wrong idea about me. I'm just as naive, trusting and innocent as he is, he just doesn't see it that way. He's putting me up on a pedistal. I've doine that with people before, and I think it's for the same reason - just not feeling up to participating in the relationship. So, sounds like I understand him pretty well?

This is a problem. I've given it another month to see how I can stand it and work with it. I told him this last night. If I can't take it the way it is, I'll have to cut him free. I'll not be able to be open and be his "best friend" any more after that. Hope I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks Suzy for your interest, your questions, and suggestions. Take Care!

January 14, 2002
2:04 pm
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PaulP
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Not to put a damper on things or to jump to any conclusions, but, all kidding aside, he might in fact be gay and just not interested in sex with you (or any other woman).
You don't say how old you or he is, but if he's in his twenties, his sex drive should probably still be strong enough that you know about it when you're together. Few straight men will continue to turn down sex with their SO. Just a possibility, but one I think you might want to consider.

January 14, 2002
2:16 pm
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gypsygirl
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You said he grew up religious, maybe he just feels strongly about his morals. I grew up mormon and felt very strongly about not having sex till someone spoiled it for me. It is very rare to find a guy that has strong morals, but they do exist.

January 14, 2002
2:28 pm
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artist 2
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Paul: he's not gay. He waited until really late to have sex for the first time. He's from a really religious family. He struggles with guilt about having sex. I should know... I've been to bed with him...

Gypsy: yes, he feels strongly about his morals. He is torn between going back to his church fully, or staying in the real world. Your'e right he is rare, and he's a prince.

January 14, 2002
2:38 pm
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gypsygirl
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So sex is not his everything, we can all take notes from him. Findout what your attributes are, and develop them. We are worth more than the sex we can have.

January 17, 2002
11:57 am
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deepression
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sex .... , why is it soo ambiguous... , I've never had any sexual relationship , not even with the ONLY girl that I've been enthralled by for the past ten year , seeing her evry time is like seeing her for the first time ever ... , I won't deny that I had actually thought about making love with her ... , but just the mere thought of having such a relationship in the future and not actually doing it made me sanctify my love to her , rather than easing the pressure ....

I'm 26 now .... , in the recent past years , and after so many open conversations with others , I reliezed that I had the earliest stage of sexual awakening and puberty I had knew until now ... , non of my friends actually believed that I naturally exercised masturbation without the intervention of anybody since I was 7 years old .... , I remember the first time like it was just yesterday .... , I was at the second elemantary school class .... , It wasn't quite that natural ... , It was a STORMY years of guilt and anxiety ... , but at that time what could I've done ..?? , without any frank sexual guidance ...!! , with the explosive nature of it , I couldn't do anything rather than rendering it to a Habit ... , and yet until now , to be able to relief the pressure ... , even at the high price of it ..

with time this instinctual overwhelming motive , became strangely as much abstract of instinct as it can be ... , it became pure nostalgia and craving to concentrate waves of platonic love into one girl .... , the need to be warmly loved and to be multifarious in giving love back ....

at the peak of that long stage , she abandoned me ... , she just left ...

January 17, 2002
12:25 pm
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Cici
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Maybe it's my extended history of sexual trauma, but I've always taken sex for granted. It's never been special or sacred or spiritual for me, it's just fun and sweaty and makes you laugh and puts ya in a good mood. Hell, I had a string of partners when I was single. My record was going 12 days without sex. I wasn't really jumping into relationships, either.

In college nowadays it's popular to have "FBs" - "fun" buddies. Someone you like to hang with and occassionally have sex with.

Sex isn't important. It's the context in which it takes place. Establishing a great context leads to great sex.

January 17, 2002
12:53 pm
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This is kind of weird--I've been writing to myself these last few days in an attempt to sort all my problems out--and the following is what I spent the morning typing out to a third person--and as painful as it is to admit--I want to share it with ya'll. Maybe it will give you some perspective--I hold NOTHING back--total lack of self image. 🙂

Today my feelings are getting the better of me—I am anxious and not very happy. My b.f. and I had another battle last night—this one was about sex.

Through discussions that he and I have had about our pasts—I discovered that I allowed myself to be abused in my first sexual experiences—I got no sex education at home—my Mom’s only word’s on the subject to me at 13 were: “ Well, a man has this thing and he sticks it in you”—when I wanted to know more she said: “I don’t want to talk about it.” I didn’t have but 2 close friends growing up –one went to a public school and was a year younger and knew much more than I did about sex and boys—or so it seemed but I felt stupid and was afraid to talk about sex with her for fear of being ridiculed. My other close friend came from a very large family, was my age—she had polio and was open and honest and not very attractive at that age and more interested in horses and sports than boys. I had a date for my junior prom—my only date in high school –with a friend of a friend that went to another school—I fell in love –and I didn’t know how to show it—and he moved on—and my heart was broken—I felt ugly and worthless—and in my view the fact that I lost someone I’d fallen in love with meant that I was a loser—and I couldn’t talk about it with anyone—my family was the enemy and I felt I couldn’t tell my friends. I was schooled in Catholic schools and sex education was present but limited—I remember in my senior year in high school—a coed high school BUT—boys had one side of the school and girls the other—they crowded the senior class—both boys and girls into the auditorium and the high school chaplain gave a lecture on sex—complete with audio visuals—you can guess how many people felt comfortable enough to ask questions of a priest with the rest of the senior class watching and listening.
By this time my emotional problems were an ever-present companion—I never felt comfortable admitting my fears to myself and I definitely couldn’t tell other people. I had learned really well at home that if you showed any vulnerability—that was leaving yourself open to attack—and the pain of isolation was preferable to the pain of open humiliation. Anger at my potential attackers and resentment of the need to hide to feel safe got thrown in the emotional soup along with the fear of never being good enough at whatever I wanted to do or be and getting external reinforcement for that when my desires for myself conflicted with my mothers desires for me. So, I became the rebel—I’d show her—I can be anything I want—even someone I don’t want to be--my mother told me when I did something that hurt her –that I did it deliberately to hurt her—I was angry when she’d say that because—she –as always was putting the focus on herself—like what I wanted was unimportant.
But maybe I was trying to hurt her on some level by being something or someone that I knew she’d hate—look Mom, I’m destroying myself—now are you happy? How stupid is that?

Now, back to sex—I took off for N.Y.C. with a girl I met working a temporary job, we got a hotel room and I had sex the first opportunity that presented itself—with a younger guy who was really interested in breaking a virgin—as he put it—I remember thinking—well, why not—this is what all the fuss is about—so, I’ll try it. So we had sex several times until he was sure I was broken. We ended up living together— I got passed around to a few of his friends while he watched --he stole from me—my friend got a job and moved to the village—and I lost contact with her—maybe she couldn’t stand to see what was going on—looking back—I know that I felt that this is what I was supposed to do—be there and call this abuse love—because it was all I had—I wasn’t alone any more—and I learned the mechanics of sex—how to make a guy want you and how to make a guy come—but I never learned how to please myself—hell, I didn’t realize that that was even an option. After I left him—and I finally did leave after 3 months, I lived on the streets of N.Y.C., sleeping with a lot of different guys until it became clear to even me that I was pregnant—I considered abortion—even gave it a half hearted attempt—I took some pills that were supposed to make you miscarry—but they didn’t work—then I started to be happy about having a baby—and I called my Mom—who was anything but happy—my brother who lived in Jersey drove into the city and gave me some cash to catch a greyhound home. I ended up having the baby and giving her up for adoption and I have issues about that to this day but it was probably the best thing that I ever did.

Sex has always been a coin of trade—I’ll sleep with you if you stay with me and I will do it so well that you’ll never want to leave. My own pleasure was never in the picture—my desire for sex was always tied to giving pleasure and successfully achieving my goal—to make someone want to be with me—it never mattered whether I acheive orgasm or not with someone—in fact it became impossible for me to orgasm with someone—I could only orgasm by masturbation—but I would masturbate all the time—without the knowledge of my partner—through my marriage of 17 years—and all my other fairly long term relationships—until my current relationship. I also have found that if I had an emotional problem—this is still going on today btw—if I am angry at my s.o. or if I am upset—my sex drive goes out the window—and even worse—I have flashbacks of being touched when I didn’t want to be and in places on my body that I didn’t want to be touched and I shut down sexually—sometimes I just want to curl up in a ball and be left alone—other less intense times I just
direct the touching to other areas of my body.

My significant other is amazing in his desire to please me sexually—he does or tries to do things that are for my pleasure alone—he realizes some of the problems that make up my view of sex—and has been patient with me—and has guided me to books that would help me if I ever read them. Last night, I got the most intense flashback yet—and I shut down totally. I started talking about my flashback and he interpreted what I was saying as the same old problem—and in my anxiety to show him the difference –we got into an argument and I was angry and frustrated—as was he—that we could not see or validate the others assessment of what was happening.
From the beginning of our relationship, our sex was better than any other sex I’ve had and is still great most of the time but lately I have emotional issues on the surface and I think that my sexual problems are a result of my emotional problems with him and myself coming to light. I believe that if I get to the root of my emotional issues—my sexual issues will become more controllable.

As you know, we have other problems besides this and they have over the last few days also been coming to the foreground and I have been spending a great deal of time and paper in analyzing my feelings. I have come to realize that there are many things that have gone on between us since the beginning of our relationship that bothered me (angered or upset—not sure which) but for a number of reasons I have been unable to talk to him about and remain unresolved. I feel anger towards him that I haven’t been very good at hiding—and not very good at dealing with, either. I need to find out if my anger at him is anger at things in the present over things going on between us that can be changed –either in myself or him—or if these are my own issues with my mother cropping up—or if we are simply the wrong people for each other—the last statement scares me silly—but I need to examine it too. I’m tired—and so is he—we seem to keep fighting the same battles over and over again.

January 17, 2002
1:13 pm
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No, I absolutely KNEW you were the sane one from the beginning, Blondie--labels have never meant SQUAT to me. Got NO religion NOW --NOR DO I CARE TO HAVE ONE--THANK YOU VERY MUCH--and my home life is why--my sisters were sisters--if you know what I mean--and my MOM could have won the prize for DYSFUNCTIONAL QUEEN FOR A DAY--and she was as loving a person as one could be given the crosses she had to bear.
The bottom line of the tender tale above is that IT'S MINE--good or bad--right or wrong--and NOW I'm giving it up--trashing all that crap by the side of the road because it's just TOO DAMN HEAVY!! I just thought that someone out there could learn from and be in awe of exactly how bent someone can get from repression--antiquated as that concept is.

Artist:)

January 17, 2002
1:19 pm
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p.s. The point wasn't that masturbation is bad--the point is that bending the idea of sex in your mind until it becomes a power tool to use to hold someone to you and losing ones healthy desire for it in the process--now THAT'S bad.
Artist:)

January 17, 2002
1:50 pm
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Blondie--I am SO sorry-- I attacked you TWICE!! Yikes!! I was unfair and very wrong--please forgive me.

As you can tell, I haven't been in a good mental state lately--this b.f. thing is driving me crazy!! My apologies to any one else I offended, too.

Artist:(

January 17, 2002
2:41 pm
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Blondie--It's me--just plain ol' Artist----artist 2 who started the thread is the one with the religious boy friend--I am the one whose hormones took over and whose brain went out to lunch.

Artist:)

p.s. I just might change my name--gotta think about it.

January 17, 2002
5:34 pm
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Molly
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When I first started school, it started me thinking about action, reaction type of behavior. I read Bradshaws, Family, and had every sign of disease. I kept reading books, kept studying the nature of being. One day Sybil in his short and limited wisdom said when are you going to quit the quest and just be?
Needless to say, I couldn't do what he suggested, immediately, but got it.
I like your idea of the fact that your history is yours and putting it out there for others to get it, and leaving it alone. Usually we don't get angry at the immediate what happened, but something from our past.
Celebrate who you are today, and screw the psychobabble, forgive your self of what ever you thought was a sin, and be. That is why I like the concept of being in the present, today is the first day of the rest of your life. Make your own rules, reinvent your self, hear mom, and ignore her like you always have,hell grandma and grandpa were talking to me the other day, and I said yea right, and kept on. Your ok, do what serves you, ignore the rest. And screw everybody if they don't get it.

January 17, 2002
5:36 pm
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artist 2
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I read the Bible last night... after watching "dead man walking".

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