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set a boundary - and it's sooooo hard now
September 13, 2005
8:11 am
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Anonymous
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I set a boundary - I have been floundering with what **I** needed to make me feel comfortable with my BF. I thought it was cuz he cheated on me - but realize it's more than that. So I set an expectation, shared it with him, and let the cards fall where they may.

I came to the conclusion that I value emotional intimacy, and that keeping passwords and refusing to share information with me is a "wall" to intimacy, at least in my mind, and I will not accept a partner that continues to make me feel like he has a secret.

Well - thanks to my all so wonderful therapy - yes, I am being sarcastic - cuz it hurts and I am not so sure I am happy about this -

I saw his control/manipulation games for what they were.

first, when I told him that if his new therapy supported his right to "privacy" and if he continued to stick to having that right, that our relationship would take too long to recover and I was not comfortable with it and that I want a partner who is not afraid to share "everything" with me - that I would WANT to share - just that I want him to know he can and that if I need to know something, I am not going to run into walls and passwords and conflict.

control tactic #1 - "gotta get back to dinner, will talk to you tomorrow" - cutting discussion short.

control tactic #2 - left me voice mail, in his most sorry, "i'm hurting" tone - saying "hey baby, I miss you and can't wait to hold you and snuggle you, I can't wait for my therapy appt tomorrow, I can't wait to fix me, and I hope things all work out for us, I love you and miss you...yada yada yada".

this gave me the idea that he felt like I gave him an ultimatum. I fell for that one - and called him back and OVER explained myself - not thinking he would get the message and call me back until morning.

as usual - that was wrong - control tactic #3 - waiting for the response and the chance to pounce.

control tactic #4 - calls me back - says he heard my message - only now his tone is NOT SO SAD AND LONELY - but enraged and angry and resentful - saying it IS an ultimatum, and that I want him to change for me, I want him to be perfect and if I don't get what I want, I want out. I tried explaining that I was not comfortable with HIS way - and he kept going back to "YOU WANT IT YOUR WAY" - so I then explained that I TRIED IT HIS WAY - and we were NOT getting better - and if he was UNWILLING to TRY it my way - we had no chance of repairing this relationship, that I see it as a requirement to having a healthy relationship and if he doesn't value the same thing, we are not a good match as partners, and it is time we accept that.

Control tactic #5 - he turned the convo around and started throwing at me that I want it MY WAY and MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY - to which I ended the convo.

so then I went down the road, had a thought and texted him back saying that yeah, it is MY way, I DO want perfect - perfect FOR ME - and that I want a partner who can meet my needs and my need is to have complete emotional intimacy with my partner and if my BF can't give me that, he does not become my husband, it's that simple. MY NEEDS HAVE TO BE MET.

he texted me back saying I made that perfectly clear.

to this morning

control tactic #6 - he texts me saying he wants to let me know he does not want to continue the convo when he gets home, that he doesn't want to get into it and hopes I will respect his request, and he will let me know if he changes his mind.

I texted him back and said that's fine, I don't like it, but can't change it, so will accept it...so then he keeps on and on and on, trying to bait me.

yeah for me - but what sucks is that I am starting to see how he plays the game - and I was hoping I wouldn't see that once I started therapy - that the "illusion" I created and the "dream" I have for us - is real - and that all this "honest emotion" I thought I was getting was real and not a game. I set my boundary and am dead set to enforce it - but I am starting to know that this is the beginning of the end.

this man needs his arm twisted (in this case won't do it unless the shrink tells him I am right and he is wrong) to even think he should try to meet my needs - I see the flaw in that - and I see that it is not gonna serve us well - I don't know if therapy can change that - he said it's how he was raised - and if he only is willing to do things cuz the proverbial gun is to his head or the shrink says I am right - then this goes nowhere.

I know that maybe seeing a therapist can change how he sees things - I just know he is going in with a pretty huge chip on his shoulder, he is stubborn and he digs his heels in at the first request for him to do something outside his comfort zone.

he had the nerve to tell me he loved me the way I was - that he didn't ask me to go to therapy - and that he didn't ask me to change - what a bunch of bullshit - I reminded him that if I stayed the same, our relationship would continue to be a roller coaster and eventually crash and burn and I am doing this to give him a better parnter and us a chance at a healthy relationship - and it is putting me outside my comfort zone...to which he says is not necessary.

oh boy, he is good...he quickly he forgets that he strayed cuz he didn't like how we were and wanted our communication to get better and our relationship to get better - and how that our own efforts to fix things were failing and that's why he strayed.

he is totally uncomfortable with my new found requests - and I knew this was gonna happen.

don't have to like it.

September 13, 2005
8:13 am
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Anonymous
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one more thing -

I realize that he is acting like a two year old and that two year olds grow up to be normal acting children with consistency and love.

I pray that if I keep consistent (he calls it stubborn) that he will break down and realize it's time to grow up.

I am prepared for him NOT to - but on the flip side, it's out of my hands and will trust that the right thing will happen...and have some kind of hope that he will realize he has to, and why and do it to save us.

I will allow myself to be a little optimistic - but not pinning alot of hope on it.

September 13, 2005
8:59 am
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Rasputin
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Cat,

I am so proud of you for setting a boundary. I know how hard it is esp when we love that man. We feel that we want to give him everything to his heart's content. But, believe me Cat, that will only make him worse, more bad and evil. I used to think naively quite the opposite, that if only we love our men enough, our love will tansform them. How naive I was!!! Well, maybe for short period they change, but thereafter the demonic side starts to rear its ugly face!! That is the TRUTH unfortunately! Way to go CAT!!!

Best of luck, honey!

(((Hugs & Prayers)))

September 13, 2005
9:25 am
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gayle
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Ali- Good for you! I am so proud of you that you asked for what you want. I know how hard it was to do that! You are worth what you asked for! 🙂

September 13, 2005
11:44 am
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oh, the boundary I set made him feel like I was giving him an ultimatum.

perhaps I worded it wrong - he says it is an ultimatum, no matter how you look at it.

I told him that when he goes to the therapist today - if this therapist supports his efforts to "retain his right to privacy" and that his goal is to continue his right to privacy, that I will not be able to continue this relationship with him - that our goals for a healthy relationship, our ideas of what makes a realtionship survive are totally different - and that in the end, my view matters as much as his view and maybe if those views don't match, it's time to let go - and as of the first, we should give our notice.

I did not say changes had to be made by then - just that the ideal we work towards ends up the same.

he said it was an ultimatum, that he feels like I am saying that if I don't get it MY way, it's over.

I argued, trying to make him see that of course it's my way - when I started dating him, I had requirements for my partner - communication, honesty and trust being key components and that if he we don't have trust and communication, we have nothing - and his right to privacy undermines these principles, and therefore does not give me the partner I am seeking to spend my life with.

he accused me of changing the rules - I reminded him that now that I was in therapy and re-learning right and normal - that this was bound to happen.

I reminded him that I TRIED IT HIS WAY - and tried to respect his privacy - and give him his space - and our relationship is NOT improving - and I want him to try it MY way this time - FOR ONCE - and if he isn't willing - we have nothing. Maybe I am wrong - but if we don't try, we won't know. If our relationship doesn't improve with my way, then we have to look deeper.

I reminded him how much I am coming out of my comfort zone and he said he didn't ask me too - that he loved me the way I was - which is bullshit.

anyway - did I give an ultimatum? or was I simply setting a boundary and stating what I needed?

I feel selfish a bit - and of course, he is trying to make me feel this way, cuz he doesn't like what I am asking for.

September 13, 2005
12:00 pm
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exoticflower
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I think ultimatum is a word people throw around to entice shame too easily. Any boundary is in a way an 'ultimatum'...there are things that are not acceptable TO YOU...the ultimatum is respecting and meeting your needs or embrase behavior that does not meet your needs. YOu are having needs, that is all. His not meeting them and wanting to know 'whatcha gonna do about it cause I think they're stupid' is what creates the ultimatum.

I'm in awe, you really are doing great at this--boundaries are definately my weakest point, they leave me suseptable to crazymaking, I second guess and doubt myself left and right, all for having my own standards and needs...don't do it! You deserve them, stand by yourself firmly even if he won't...I do like the way you described it as being a breakdown of emotional intimacy, I never really knew how to explain to my ex that it wasn't the cheating, it was the door he was closing to me, which was what allowed him to have sex with other girls behind it to begine with.

September 13, 2005
12:05 pm
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notsoperki
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Hi alicat...
The situation you are is about as unhealthy as they come, and i'm sad that you stay knowing that it isn't going to change..however i'm returning the advice you gave me just this morning

"go forward BELIEVING he won't change.

if you go forward thinking you can change his mind or he might - and he doesn't - you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt.

remember - we can't change anyone else - or love them so much they want to change.

go forward knowing this may be the final answer."

I believe this advice is very important and we should never forget it or make exceptions for it. Your BF clearly loves you but he can't love you the way you need to be loved. You two are not bad people and you both put in as much effort as each of you can give..it just means that you two do not mix well..and that's OK! Life is ment for taste testing until you find the taste you can't live without. It's not failure if you feel you've given it 110%. Sure you'll feel an emptyness without them and you'll have your moments but that's what life is for..Trial and errors until you make it the way YOU want it. If you were told you had 2 months left to live would you stay with him for the two months going through this same thing or would you want more for yourself.

Spend your energy on something positive and uplifting!

September 13, 2005
12:26 pm
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tracylyn
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Hey Ali ~

When I read this, one thing really stands out with me.

Look at his reason for straying - he made you feel responsible and want to try harder at making it better and that is now what you are doing, trying to be better so he doesn't stray? (So it seems - IMO)

I strayed in my marriage and initially blamed it all on my failing marriage and lack of communication and emotional closeness and blah, blah blah. What I know now, after years of healing and recovering - is that I strayed because I, me, myself, was lacking, NOT him and NOT the relationship. Oh the relationship was but I've had relationships since then that have had problems but I know I'll never stray. Not straying now has nothing to do with my relationships or the person I'm with....it does however have EVERYTHING to do with me and who I am now. I now respect my self too much, I have too much self esteem and hold myself to higher standards.

I could be off - but it sounds to me like he baited you with his reasons (although he may truly believe them). He set you up to try harder.

My ex strayed too - a year or so before I did and he told me it was because I hadn't been emotionally available and he needed someone. I vowed then that I'd be a better wife - HUH???? I should have said "don't let the door hit you in the ass!"

Don't let him blame you and shame you into thinking you have to try harder. Change for yourself and not for him or the relationship.

t

September 13, 2005
12:43 pm
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tracy -

no, he isn't blaming it all on me - but he said that the breakdown in OUR communication, and the pressure I was putting on him by being a controlling bitch, made him TALK to someone he was friends with online - and later, as things got worse, the relationship turned in a different direction - beyond just friends.

In any case - he thinks he is changing his bad habits to accomodate me - to show me he won't cheat again - he is spending less time online - says he only talks to guys and his family or his ex wife (don't go there) and that's it - but when I asked him "HOW DO I KNOW this is the truth" - SHOW ME - he gets his back up. He thinks that just cuz he says he is - I should trust that. - Well, I remind him that he destroyed the trust - so he has to rebuild it. He reminds me that when I left him (very early in our relationship) to go back for one last try with my ex, he took me back in blind faith and trust - with no requirements or accountability. He thinks I should afford him the same consideration. I remind him that he CHOSE to do that - and I simply do not.

He thinks that he has learned his lesson and won't stray and his promise should be enough.

He knows our communication suffers, but has dragged his feet getting into therapy - I have had several sessions now, including two coda meetings - he claims he did an intake, after missing his first appt - but I have my doubts about this too. He claims to have an appointment today - we will see the fallout tonite.

He won't get rid of the clothes she bought him - says they are "only clothes". I remind him how they make me feel - that I know they are only clothes, but they STILL make me ill to see them on him - his solution - only wear them when he is not around me - but I see them in the laundry - he thinks cuz they are comfortable and only clothes - why get rid of them - I say they make me uncomfortable - so why not? which is more important? my feelings or the damn pair of shorts????? he SAYS he sees how I see it, but won't get rid of them to spare my feelings.

the infidelity books say that no matter what happens - he should be willing to make some kind of restitution to me, to restore my trust and rebuild what we have - that there are low cost consequences and high cost consequences - and that in the end - the feelings of the "hurt" partner have to be the primary focus - to heal their hurt may cause some pain on the "cheater" but that's what they created and that's the price to have the "hurt" partner stay in their lives. He wants to sweep it under the rug and have a clean start simply because he is promising not to cheat.

ultimately, this is not about cheating again.

this is about
A) honoring my needs and feelings and wishes
B) opening up to me, creating emotional intimacy - and not having "private" things that make me feel like he is hiding something
C) his willingness to try things "my" way without his arm being twisted or having a gun to his head or having to hear it from a professional
D) his willingness to be accountable for what he has done
E) his willingness to change for the good of the relationship

He is gonna blame me - and try to shame me - and try to guilt me - but I see it for real now - no blinders - no clouds - no rose colored glasses - and I see his control and manipulation - and recognize it for what it is - and now I am working VERY hard to deflect it and not accept it.

I promised to work on me, AS LONG AS, he worked on himself. Well, even if he doesn't work on him, I continued to work on myself. The more I learn, the more I know, the more I realize how much this is flawed. Next step is letting go - cuz I can't accept it or live with it...I'm worth more than that.

knowledge is power - I got it, he doesn't.

September 13, 2005
12:44 pm
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tracylyn
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Ali ~

Ok I have more - I hope you don't see me as harping - I'm just seeing a different side of this, as I usually try to do.

I see that you are trying to take care of you and set boundaries. But, a boundary is for you, he crosses it, you are done. A boundary shouldn't be seen as a rule for him - or yes, an ultimatum if you will. A boundary isn't a "do this or else". A boundary is a healthy choice that you've made of what you are willing to accept and not accept.

I also see that you seem to be trying to control his therapy. Within your healing - you should concentrate on you. You can't dictate what he will talk to his therapist about. He should be commended for going, not told what to discuss and not threats of what you'll do if the outcome of HIS therapy isn't what you want.

Ask yourself why you want him to not be private? Is is because you don't trust him. What if you had a partner that never strayed - would you want to know passwords and not let him have a life outside of you. Everyone needs a life outside of their partner. Should they share if asked, probably but you can't know every detail. No one can live under a microscope. Either you want to trust him or you don't.

This paragraph stands out:

"I argued, trying to make him see that of course it's my way - when I started dating him, I had requirements for my partner - communication, honesty and trust being key components and that if he we don't have trust and communication, we have nothing - and his right to privacy undermines these principles, and therefore does not give me the partner I am seeking to spend my life with."

This is a very bold statement. If this is how you feel then why settle? The point here is that you want it YOUR way but you seem to want to prove to him that your way is better and he should conform. It seems like he isn't this person you already knew you wanted. You can't force a square peg into a round hole - it just won't go.

I hope you know that my statements here are just meant to make you think. Look over what you wrote and think about the way you have stated things to him - would it feel like an ultimatum to you if presented to you the same way?

Food for thought.

Peace to you.

t

September 13, 2005
12:55 pm
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tracylyn
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I think we posted at the same time this last time.

I went and found this in my files for you. It's has a lot to do with what you talk about with the emotional intimacy issues. This is from the book "A purpose driven life". I saved this cause it's really good.

I hope you don't take what I wrote above wrong. Just a different point of view. I am going thru something very similar with my bf. Trust issues anyway - there was no cheating but lies just to avoid conflict and so now it's hard for me to trust. I do expect him to take some steps to help me trust again but I also now that I can't force him - and if I don't trust or try to believe him - then I should leave. That's a tough one though cause you want so much to believe but there is always that doubt.

Anyway, I hope you like this.

Have you ever had a relationship and discovered that you did not know what the other person was really feeling or thinking? You were "together," and logging time, but you found yourself sometimes wondering, "Where is he?" or, "Is something wrong?" Or maybe you can relate to having a relationship where you thought things were fine and then you found out from a third party that the other person was upset with you, or did not like something you were doing, but had not told you directly. Do you remember how you felt?

Both of those scenarios are familiar to most of us. Not only are they disappointing and hurtful, but they can wear away at our very ability to trust someone and have the kind of connectedness that we saw in Part One of this series. Even worse, if you have enough of those experiences, you may begin to give up on relationship altogether. Many people just choose the numb safety of protecting themselves from any more of that kind of hurt.

What is wrong when this happens? And, what can be done about it? The problem in both of these examples is that one of the key ingredients of relationship itself has broken down: truth. Without truth, the very fabric of relationship itself begins to unravel. The connection disintegrates, and the benefits that love can provide us begin to wane. Let's take a look at why.
Will the Real Person I Love Please Stand Up?

The first problem that a lack of truth causes is a "false" relationship. The one that you are trusting and connecting with is not the total real person. There are other parts of them, other feelings, other thoughts or motives that are not being disclosed to you, and therefore they are unknown to you. So you think you are dealing with one person, and yet there is a lot of that person that is not in the relationship. It is almost like there is another person that you do not know. You think you have a connection, but you really don't. One of the Bible's words for that is hypocrite, a word that Jesus used with pretty strong language. It literally means an "actor," or playing a "false part." In other words, what you see is not what you get. So, there is a whole other person we don't know.

Intimacy Breaks Down
Fulfilling relationships are a result of what is called "intimacy." It means to really know and experience someone. If we are not being honest, there is only surface connection, or as we saw above, false connection, and intimacy does not happen. Even if there is grace, or acceptance, that acceptance does not actually get to the real heart that needs to be accepted if it is hiding. The acceptance is lost on the surface.
So, the very goal of relationship is lost. Intimacy cannot happen if we are not being truthful about what is going on inside our hearts, minds, and souls. We are "in" the relationship, but "not in it" at the same time. As a result, the good things that we want to share with each other are lost, and the pains and weaknesses that need to be healed are never revealed either. James tells us to "confess our faults to one another," and pray for one another so that we may be healed (James 5:16). That kind of honesty builds intimacy in the places where we need it most, and requires us to tell the truth.

We Lose What We Need to Know
One of the best things that we can do for one another is to give truthful feedback to each other when we need it. We grow from hearing the truth. As Proverbs tells us, "Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses" (Prov 27:6). Spouses, family members, and true friends sometimes tell each other hard things that need to be said. That is how we grow, and it is how we get close. It is the way that we get more intimate, as problems get resolved and hurts overcome. It is the redemptive path by which God reestablishes intimacy with us. He confronts things, talks about them, forgives them, and intimacy is redeemed.

Paul puts it this way: "Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body" (Eph 4:25). Notice how he pairs oneness (members of one body) with truthfulness. They go together. You cannot have one without the other. As John says, Jesus was full of "grace and truth." Grace is not grace without truth-it is syrupy sentimentality or license. Real grace loves and accepts what truly is, with no hiding or pretense.

So, when we are honest with each other about the hard things, we grow. We benefit from the love that we share and become better people in the process. As a result, the relationship grows and the cycle of health and life just gets better and better. Truth and grace have their effect, and we become more truthful and graceful, and that leads to more love all over again.

Into the Light
God lives in the light, and in him there is no darkness at all (1 John 2:5). He is always truthful and does not hide anything in the darkness. That is part of why his love is pure. And that is the goal for all of our relationships as well. Love from a pure heart brings the most fulfilling relationships. And to accomplish that, we need to be truthful. It is difficult, often scary, and many times risky. But in the end, it is the path to true love. Let's all endeavor to be like him and love in both grace and truth. God bless.

t

September 13, 2005
1:14 pm
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taj64
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Hi. Traci brings valid points. You are not healthy in this relationship. He is not healthy in this relationship. The more this continues, the more unhealthy it is. You're really not getting the loving you need. Are you happy? Are you at peace? Are you optimistic? Don't you want a new way of living? You are loving person Ali, giving it all to him and not trusting him. Ali, it is all about trust and faith. You don't have this with him. Emotional intimacy requires trust, communication, compromise, acceptance of each other and a genuine liking to the person. You are saying you love him, I believe it, but to me it doesn't appear that you like him. Love should be easy, just is, natural, maybe some bumps here and there but overall good. It is not good this one. You really should not have to work so hard.

September 13, 2005
1:40 pm
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Anonymous
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tracy,

didn't read the long one yet - but in resonse to your post before that.

question one - isn't a boundary something you stick to? - and if they overstep the boundary, I have two choices - one - to walk away - two - to accept he did it and let it go? do I have it right? I can't accept the boundary he is crossing - so what's my choice if I can't accept his behaviour?

I wasn't trying to control his therapy, tho I can see how it could be viewed that way. I was simply saying that if he continued to want his right to privacy, it would hinder our relationship and end it - and if his therapist supported this ideal he has - then all would have to end. I see how you guys can see it differently.

you asked if he never strayed would I think of things differently - I DAMN SURE WOULD - cuz I NEVER had the urge to see what he was up to - or want to look or ANYTHING - until things started not adding up - and this is a pattern of his - cuz he has told me things in the past that appeared to be lies - and I had no way of knowing - so I would ask for proof and he would stonewall me until I gave up my requests. Once I found out he cheated - and he defended his LIE to the death - and only admitted he lied and cheated when I went back and offered a peace offering - made me feel like he will defend a lie until I find out otherwise. He didn't spend xmas with me - which was a HUGE let down - and something we discussed until we came to a resolution - then he called and said he hurt his knee xmas eve and was in the ER all day and night and such - so he never showed - and when I asked for "something" - a receipt, privacy notice, bracelet - something - he had no proof - I had called the hospital to check on his progress that day and they had no record of him - so his story changed to being in the ER - to being in the ER but transferred to the orthopedists office until 5 p.m. that night - on XMAS EVE!!!! he offered NO proof and three weeks later - gave me a dummy receipt on a disk - and I could not find a way to verify the receipt with the hospital - but it was forged - there is no doubt about it....but I have no damn proof and until today, he will defend this lie.

hell yeah, I want proof - had he never gave me reason to not trust him - my mind would be at rest and I would have NO reason to want access to see what he is up to.

all I want is the ability to look - or him to show me if I ask - he refuses - so it leads me to think he has something to hide - he swears there is NOTHING - I would find nothing - so what the hell is the big deal? if it is gonna shut me up and rebuild our trust and relationship, isn't it worth it??????????????

sorry - little touchy.

the bold statment I made is one I only came to realize LAST NITE - it wasn't something I thought of before - it is something I have been gnawing on for days now - and finally got it to a point that it makes sense of what I want and why I want it.

He isn't the person I thought he was. It is only just the last few days that I am seeing him for who he really is - even tho people told me I was in denial before - I had to find my own clarity on my own - and just did.

I did give him an ultimatum - in that I stated what I want in a partner - and will not settle. And his decision to protect his privacy will not meet those standards and he will have to leave. That is a boundary - but since it is a new one and I don't believe he will honor it, I am prepared to walk away. If walking away cuz your boundaries are not met is the same as an ultimatum, then yeah, I gave him one.

I am only now realizing what I truly have on my hands - and I want the standards for a partner that I have set - if he isn't that person - and he has not proven to me he is - not in the last 18 plus months - then I have to reconcile that and realize it's a dead end.

if there is another way to see this or if I am way off base - please, let me know - cuz in the end, I am told if I cannot accept who he truly is and how he truly is - then I shouldn't be with him - if I can't live in peace and happiness despite our problems, then it is time to end it.

do I have this all wrong?

September 13, 2005
1:45 pm
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kathygy
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alicat,

It sounds like your boyfriend is trying to manipulate you by calling your needs an ultimatum and saying it you want it your way. This is a very unhealthy response and a twisted version of what you said. You have a right to ask for your needs to be meet. He should care about your needs and not put unhealthy labels on them. His job as your partner is to try to meet your needs and if he can't do that then he can simply tell you he can't do it without calling it an ultimatum or wanting things your way. He is not meeting you on your level. Don't let him twist what you said and try to make you wrong in wanting to have your needs met which are very healthy needs. His privacy thing sounds more like fear of intimacy. He is calling it a right which keeps him stuck rather than looking deeper and seeing it as a cover up for fear of intimacy and closeness. There are so many red flags with this man that I doubt he will overcome in your lifetime. The sooner you get out the sooner you can heal and meet someone healthier who wants the samething you do.

love,
kathy

September 13, 2005
1:50 pm
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also tracy, now that I read your long post -

he isn't allowing me to see the real him - only in bits and pieces - he has a wall up with only a few holes in it that he allows me and everyone else to see into - I do not know the person I sleep with every night.

he wont talk to me, he wont communicate with me, he wont discuss his faults, his fears, his issues...so how can I get past this?

I am giving the truthful feedback to him - he nods his head, says he needs help - then goes off and gets distracted by something else and forgets to follow thru with therapy, as if it's not his priority.

I refrain from giving him feedback and he feels rejected and neglected - I give him advice and he rejects it and does his own thing - stuck on his own agenda anyway. This is nothing new - but something I thought WOULD change if/when he got into therapy. But since he is not there yet - I am still struggling with tolerating the onging issues.

his wife and family never pushed him for intimacy - this is all new for him - and now that we live together - he is totally out of his element - and doesn't seem to be adjusting for whatever reason.

I can't fix him. I can't change him. And the person I thought I picked for my partner does not exist at this juncture - so the only option I see is to move on. If it was meant to be - we will find our way back to eachother when we are healthier - but until then, I simply cannot endure the struggle.

September 13, 2005
3:46 pm
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Ali ~

Sounds like you've know what you want and have a grip on who he is.

Again, I just tried to show a different perspective.

Once trust is gone it's just so hard to regain it. I understand you wanting to see proof to back up his statements. I'm doing the same thing right now. I just wonder how long any relationship can withstand that kind mistrust. I know I hate asking and he hates me asking.....so where does that leave the relationship?

Also, like the writtings that I posted about by Henry Cloud - it just breaks down all intimacy when you feel like someone is hiding who they are or something about them.

I wish you lots of luck. You sound really strong.

t

September 13, 2005
3:58 pm
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Tracy -

let me tell you - this trust issue is something that dates back to before we lived together - almost a year now - I thought maybe it was my imagination - cuz he lives two hours away and I am just getting all worked up over nothing.

so now I live with him - and under my nose, he carried on this relationship with this other woman - do I feel like a fool.

I only asked for proof on a few occasions - and only once got it - and even then know it was forged.

what WAS/IS he hiding? dunno - I think at xmas he wanted to be with his family - agreed to be with me - but then wanted out of that agreement and figured that faking an injury was a good lie - he even wore an ace bandage for weeks afterwards and sometimes had a limp...beyond that, dunno - and that's where the breakdown is.

asking for proof only lasts for a while - after that - resentment for asking and for being asked builds - and breaks down everything.

if there is an open book policy - then you won't have to ask - my BF won't give that to me.

I only just came into the light - only just realized that this is not only about ME trusting HIM - but HIM trusting ME - and in the end - his not trusting me is a BIGGER nut than me thinking he is cheating - cuz I know that won't happen again. But for him to allow me to be intimately close, like nobody else he has ever let - that is something I don't think he understands why he has to - or wants to - not even to save us.

like I said - he has done alot of other inconsiderate things - he won't get rid of the material "evidence" of his cheating - he keeps the clothing even tho it makes my stomach churn to look at them (for more than just the obvious reasons) - "they are just clothes" is his argument - so why can't I get past it - well, if it is just clothes, why not get rid of it just to satisfy me, show he respects how it makes me feel and save our relationship???? cuz he is STUBBORN AND wants it HIS way, despite his objections and his repeatedly telling me how much he is sacrificing for this relationship...again, all manipulation and bullshit.

I do see it all different ways - but in the end - he isn't gonna meet my needs or expectations or requirements for a healthy lifelong partner - so it's time to cut the cord.

how long can you hold out under the condition of mistrust??? wish I could tell you it is easy and will pass - but as long as there are secrets, passwords and hidden agendas, it will never go away.

September 13, 2005
4:01 pm
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oh, and he thinks that because he blindly trusted me when we got back together - that I should afford him the same consideration now - but how quickly he forgets that when we first met, he told me that his wife lives down at the bottom of the stairs - and that the relationship is OVER and please trust him.

okay - did that - then she tells me she was in his bed during this time - then recanted - who do I trust???

then he cheated on me - I can't give him blind trust again - and he is trying all he can to make me feel guilty about it and shame me into dropping my boundaries.

September 13, 2005
5:21 pm
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Hi Ali,

I am soooo ANGRY about the whole "clothes" situation. What he is doing is so disrespectful, it's downright abusive.

I have to tell ya, if I was in the same situation, all my therapy would go right out the window and those clothes would be set on fire.....whether he was still in them or not! Ulitmatum....I'd give him an ultimatum....get rid of those clothes or get the f$#% out.

Sigh...... I'm sorry but that felt good.

I don't mean to advocate setting the man on fire.....I'm just saying....it actually makes my blood boil reading this thread!

Ali....this man is not a nice man. Please, do what you have to do for yourself.

Love,
Lolli

September 13, 2005
5:36 pm
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Hey Ali ~

Do you wonder if he is capable of the type of closeness and intimacy that you seek.

I look at my boyfriend and his family. They are all close - but onlly too a point. They don't seem emotionally close like I am with mine. I wonder sometimes if my bf is capable of this kind of emotional trust.

Sometimes, when someone has been hurt or neglected emotionally, they just are not capable of opening up emotionally say...the same way as someone like you or I. See I'm an open book and I just expect everyone to be the same. With my bf, as I think the same with yours, I know he loves me but is it the kind of love I need. Maybe ask yourself that - what if this is the only love he knows and isn't capable of giving you more?

t

September 13, 2005
7:08 pm
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oh lolli - I needed that - that made me laugh - it's how I feel and my brother's GF said the same thing - only that I should shred them.

therapy was good today - I know what I have to do - just a matter of sucking it up and doing it.

tracy -

Now that I FINALLY see the core/root issue here - I don't think he can change or fix it - don't think he knows it's wrong, don't think he can think it's wrong, don't think he could change it - cuz his family won't support it.

I know he loves me - but the reality is, he simply cannot meet my needs - and so it goes - and now it has to end.

not ready to today - but soon.

September 13, 2005
10:47 pm
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Ali-Glad you got some clarification in your mind and some of the fog has lifted. Keep up the positive thinking and self-goal setting. It's hard but you are so worth it!

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