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Rev - Update....well, something I got to get off my chest!
June 19, 2006
1:51 pm
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revelation
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Hi All,

Haven't been around much, have tried to help out in some threads, but been very busy with my volunteer work, keeping fit, eating healthy, losing weight and generally enjoying life (There is life after emotional abuse folks!!!)

Anyway, this is what I want to vent about:

Those of you who know my story, know that my ex is a musician, he doesn't have any real friends to speak of, but well...the reality of it is, he got into this new band when we were together, and basically, got a bit too big for his boots and dropped me for all these new people he met in the band. I knew these people before he did, and knew they were bad news, he always said he didn't like them either, and even after we broke up he came to me a few times and bitched about them, and said he had minimum contact with them...but, as far as they were concerned he was their friend. I was getting a different story from them, that he was always around them and having fun.

Well....the past few months I've been getting out and about, catching up with old friends etc. etc. A few times I've been in company with my ex's new-found friends and their partners and extended group of friends. I've heard them say nasty nasty stuff about my ex, I've heard them bad0mouth him and back-stab him and make a fool of him behind his back. Sometimes, I've really wanted to defend him (although sometimes what they are saying is actually true, but some of it isn't). He basically turned his back on my after I miscarried, and I've heard this discussed as well, he's been called a scumbag, little bitch, two-face, a*shole, knob-end, gimp all sorts of derogatory names....also, he's been bitchin' as well to his friends about other friends, like he'll bitch to the singer in the band about the drummer, or to the bass-player about the singer, and he seems to think that these guys are on his side, but then bass-player goes and tells singer what he says, and singer goes and tells drummer what he says...and then they just rip him to shreds...I only get the tail-end of what is being said, but basically he's being made a fool of. I can't help but think
"Well, ya lay down with dogs ya get fleas" and "Told ya so" and "Well, you made your bed" So, far, I've been able to just shrug my shoulders and walk away when I hear any negative stuff (Sometimes, I think that they would like to draw me into the bitchin' about him...some sort of mind-game? But, I haven't been drawn in because I never trusted these people).

Also, I have my ex up on womansavers.com website, and recently there has been a rebuttal from someone on it, who says that she knows my ex through her partner, and thinks he's a very strange man who gives her the creeps! I'd love to know who this is...and yes, it was me who actually posted him there in the first place. A part of me is intrigued, and yes, I'll admit a little bit smug that the tables are turning...but another part of me is nervous (What if somehow the tables turn again...what if he finds out they are bitchin' and they somehow blame me? They really are not nice people - drug-heads!) and yet another part of me, feels sorry for the guy....I know he's in a bit of a tailspin with his life, its must be quite a mess...

Whaddya think?
Rev.

June 19, 2006
3:02 pm
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sleepless in uk
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Oh Rev...I dunno..

I think you are right not to join in in the bitchin' sessions about your ex...your instincts are good and if these guys arent to be trusted its better to just keep your own counsel i reckon...

It is funny how loyal we still are even after we have been hurt.

Its like; its ok for me to call him but i wont have anyone else do it!!!

And i guess to hear them call him must make you feel pretty uncomfortable...after all you were close with him once...

is it possible for you to mix more with people who havent been involved with you both? I know thats easier said than done and why should you not socialise with your friends...but....it doesnt sound like they are particularly nice

i dunno just some thoughts

rise above it kid...or hit the effin lot of em with your silver hammer!!

June 19, 2006
3:14 pm
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Tis difficult sleep not to see these people, I am not direct friends with them, but I am friends of friends so to speak. I don't see them that often...I hear stuff through the grapevine as well y'know? And well the big big secret is that, actually I have kept in contact with one band girlfriend who keeps my informed of whats going on...she HATES my ex, cannot stand him, but swears she didn't write the rebuttal on the womansavers site...so many people bloody hate him...I never saw this before?

June 19, 2006
3:27 pm
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Hi rev,

That's tough, to be around people who try to draw you into dangerous waters. How long has it been since you split with ex, and do you find their slagging him off has started to dissipate at all around you?

You probably have the best instincts about how to handle them -- too bad you can't really use the silver hammer!

The more energy you can put into new projects, no doubt the better, and gradually the balance will shift. I hope so, anyway!

hugs from your pal, kroika

June 19, 2006
3:33 pm
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Rev I think you are wise in the ways of the world. I have been around small time bands and allot of times the one that is not there is the topic or target and they show up and another leaves and then they are the next to get ripped on and you are getting tired of it and can not wait to get out of there and let em turn on each other like dogs or at least spread the fleas around LOL Everyone there is probably thinking they deserved part of that and shoot Ill be next and This aint worth it. Watch when one of there x's - x's pals goes down on drug charges and they will all be jumping at every crackle on the phone or scarred to talk on phones and jumping everytime they hear a noise outside or a new face around their circle of friends.

"(Sometimes, I think that they would like to draw me into the bitchin' about him...some sort of mind-game? But, I haven't been drawn in because I never trusted these people). "

Youuuuu got it! If you do not say anything someone will get loaded and creative and make something up. As long as it makes your x paranoid or they get info out of him.

A mad circle ! If they are anything like my old party pals even if you stay away from them a close brush with one is all it can take. Like someone ?????? said on hear awhile back. Peoples addictions can cause them to freeze part of their emotions at the age group they aquired the addiction. I can be reversible if you stop. Or something to that effect 🙂

If you are like me. I get POed because if I let my gaurd down or close to it with old friends that I more or less keep at arms length and a good grip on them. 😉 I know it is the next best thing to getting sucked in. Grrr!

My 2 cents
Have the best day you can DNT

June 19, 2006
3:33 pm
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Oooops DTN

June 19, 2006
3:34 pm
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revelation
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Whew...we are split since Sept last year, but were last in contact (V toxic contact) in March. I feel no inclination or need to contact him, I s'pose there is a big part of me that kinda thinks he deserves this...but, its that other part that feels compassion for him and his situation, that niggles at me. It doesn't bother me that much, but sometimes it does. When I think of his life, how it has gone for him so far, and when I hear all of this bitchin going on, I kinda think "Oh, so he's not really changed, he's not copped on, he's still going in the wrong direction with a blindfold on" that kinda makes me sad. Mostly because I feel I have changed so much for the better, gotten so much more self-confidence, am much more self-aware, and have shaken off a lot of lifelong insecurities...the scales have fallen from my eyes...but obviously not from his...and well, he's 35, nearly 36, and it makes me sad to think he is still so clueless and stupid at that age. Thats all really...just feel sad for him...but not too sad...I fear for his future though...but not as much as I relish the thought of mine!

June 19, 2006
3:40 pm
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Hi Rev,
Well, I too am a musician and what you're describing sounds oh so familiar.
You are right not to participate in ANY way in the bitching sessions, either by giving the gossip-mongers more fuel OR by defending your ex.
You need detachment. Detachment doesn't just mean "no contact," it also means not checking WomanSavers for other people posting about him, and maybe even removing your post in the first place. I think that most women who are taken in by cheaters wouldn't be on that website anyway. Posting about an ex seems kind of "involved" rather than "detached" to me . . . let others take care of themselves and please focus on taking care of YOURSELF.
Like any advice I give in here, please take what you can use and leave the rest ! I have a lot of respect for you and your posts have helped me. Good luck not getting drawn in!
Love,
t_f

June 19, 2006
3:41 pm
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Hi DNT...yep, your old party friends sound similar. Its a large group of people who all now each other...some in band some not, some went to school with each other, some not...the people I would be with are really old friends and are nice, and wouldn't take the drugs etc they would gossip though...I suppose its just a way of life, I used to do it to until I copped on. They would have boyfriends involved in music, so naturally I see people I don't want to see sometimes. I knew my ex for years before we got together, and even heard them bitchin about him then too...he seems to have a reputation as a bit of a wierdo, strange dude, sad-case type character...and I suppose, my self-esteem was so low when we got together that I was actually attracted to this???? He generally gives the women in the group the heebee-jeebies, and he has that effect on a lot of people (Having gotten to know him better than most of these people, I think the bad vibes that people get from him, are a result of the fakeness, he tends to be falsely over-nice to people, to hide his coldness, and two-facedness and people can just sense this).

Rev.

June 19, 2006
3:55 pm
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Hi T-F, I wish I could delete it really, I posted it ages and ages ago when I was really hurting. I don't check it so much, but happened along it today and ta-da there it was! All the stuff I wrote in it is true...but somehow, I'd prefer if I could delete it now. But, I can't because I can't remember the username/e-mail address/password that I used.

I don't feel any attachment to him, I don't have any wish to see him, be in his company, anything like that, I don't think about him that often, my life is a whole lot different and a whole lot better without him....I think whats brought me here to vent, is that someone who I REALLY thought was genuinely probably his only REAL friend, has been bad-mouthing about him, and that shocked the sh*t outta me! Because, last time I heard, this guy was spreading terrible rumours about me in order to save my ex's some embarassment and shame over his actions! I have no wish to tell him this is going on, I know that this would only make him more paranoid than he already is, and he'd go and confront these people and they'd say I was lying and I'd be back to being "public enemy number 1"...I don't want to stir any sh*t, I'm getting on well with my friends and I don't want to involve them in anymore crap....don't want anymore drama myself either.

Nah, it was good to vent it all here and get it out....but I'll be ok, just thoughts mulling around in my head...mostly "I told you so's" though!

Rev.

Whats on my mind is, what I'd like an opinion on...if you know my story and my ex's....what kind of future do you think my ex has ahead of him? If he continues to be so false, lying to himself and others, deeply unhappy, guilt-ridden, nervous, paranoid, in denial....how is he ever supposed to be happy? Can someone be content to just be "fake-happy"????

I know I'll be happy, I just KNOW that...but...well, yeh, how do you think his life will turn out? I'm worried about him. I shouldn't be, but I am.

Rev.

June 19, 2006
8:53 pm
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Dear Rev,

Glad to see you using this thread instead of getting pulled back into old bad habits! Too bad about not being able to delete the post, but probably good to just move on and forget about it.

It's impossible to tell how his life will turn out. Either he'll bottom out and get some recovery or he won't. The important thing, and the thing that you can directly affect and be in charge of as much as possible, is how YOUR life will turn out. But you already knew that, didn't you? Stay strong. We're all proud of you!

Love, t_f

June 19, 2006
10:17 pm
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Rev,

Hi. I just took a gander at this thread, and I don't know everything that's been said. My thought is to detach from the ex as much as possible, don't devote any more mental energy to him than you absolutely have to, and stay away from that group of musicians who backbite and gossip behind everybody's back. They will drag you down if you join in with their behavior.

I think it's fine to feel that satisfaction of knowing what others think of the ex. But you can't change HIM -- you can only change YOU. He's an adult, and as sad as he's chosen to run his life, it's his choice. It almost sounds like you think you still have a chance of changing him, rev. None of your worrying or your wonderful selfless concern for him will help him in any way. It will only hurt you.

You say this group of musicians are friends of friends. Can you find a circle of new friends who are not friends to these musicians? It might be easier said than done.

The best to you.

Seeker

June 20, 2006
1:28 am
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rev, so happy you're moving on so well on your own. I used to feel so sad for the turmoil you were in, but hearing about how you're taking care of yourself makes me feel so light. Wish I could hug you. If I ever got to make my dream vacation to Ireland, you'd be in my thoughts the whole time I was there.

Okay, now. You're doing right to not engage with gossip with these folks and trash talking the ex. Knowing these people, THAT would certainly come back to bite you. All you have to worry about is keeping your own nose clean. Then, if they DO try to somehow distort things to be about you, it really won't matter so much b/c YOU'LL know the truth, right?

And now, saying that you sometimes want to defend him b/c some of what they're saying isn't true... that's natural, I think, to any honest person. There's nothing wrong with you remaining a fair person in ALL contexts even though he was unfair to you. The more closely you cling to your own integrity, the better everything will be for you. If you hear something untrue that you're tempted to dispute, remember it isn't really about a need to him, but about defending the truth.

Sometimes we get our own natural, healthy goodness confused with our unnatural, unhealthy, codependent urges to give too much of ourselves.

Just stick to what you know is good and right in your heart. You don't need to engage in their trash talk. I don't think you want to. It wouldn't be impolite to excuse yourself if the conversation turned that direction and made you uncomfortable. Otherwise, you are able to confirm what you know is true (if called upon) or refute what you know is false without embellishing, meddling, or getting drawn into their discussion.

Mainly, I just wanted you to know that the urge to defend him isn't really about him. It's natural to simply dislike hearing lies, I think. And I think that's all it is.

Many blessings,
TraCo

June 20, 2006
1:31 am
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**remember it isn't really about a need to him, but about defending the truth.**

suppose to say *remember it isn't really about a need to defend him, but about defending the truth.*

June 20, 2006
6:04 am
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sleepless in uk
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Just take care of you Rev...let the others take careof them

love sleepless x

June 20, 2006
7:58 am
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Ah lads, thanks for all the encouragement, nice to hear it. Yeh, I'm going to steer clear of them, its too easy to get dragged down isn't it? And turn, yes, I do hate hearing lies and gossip about anyone...its nasty, I will not defend him though...I don't need to.
Seeker, no, I don't think I can change him, I don't really have a need to...the way I see it...to be involved with someone that I have to "fix" is just backtracking and going back to my old ways. I'm healthier in body and mind than I ever was, so why shouldn't I have someone in my life who is just that healthy also?

Maybe part of the ickiness I feel over this situation, is because some of these people are actually voicing their true opinions. A lot of these guys wives/gf's/friends are saying that my ex gives them the creeps and always has. And, well, this makes me feel uncomfortable, because, I can understand it, I know that this is true, because when I first met Trev when I was in my twenties, he gave me the creeps too!! I was just a typical fun-lovin' dublin bird then, and I barely noticed him..And I suppose it makes me feel uncomfortable, because I feel "How did I get me self into a relationship with someone who gives me the creeps? I must have been REALLY messed up to go there in the first place" I know I'm out of that mess now, but I'm a bit embarassed now, when I hear this said by other women, because I think they must be looking at me thinking "She must be weird if she was involved with him". But thats just in the actual moment, I go home have a think about it and feel better, what matters is not that I used to love him, but that I don't now and I'm moving on and feeling better than I have in years!!!!

I went out walking today, I get a kick out of guys in cars slowing down to take a look at me....its funny, but guys looking at me used to make me feel very vulnerable and ugly, now I smile to myself and keep walking! Sounds terribly vain and big-headed yes, but f*ck it, I'm enjoying it!!! Self-esteem kicks-a*s!!!!!

June 20, 2006
9:17 am
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WAY TO GO REV! Sorry for shouting, but wow. Great job!

I do have a thought. If you hang around the music scene it's hard to "give up" a batch of friends without also giving up your love of music, because music scenes are SMALL. My soon-to-be-ex-husband is a musician and so am I. We know a lot of the same people. Fortunately our divorce is very amicable as divorces go. At any rate, whenever his name comes up or I mention him I make sure to say that he's a great guy, and an honest business person (he is in a business where he sells to musicians). Well, he's not a 100% great guy, he has a lot of problems, but you'll never hear anything bad about him out of my mouth. This makes him look better and me look better too. No sense airing dirty laundry.

When people start trash-talking your ex as they inevitably will, there might be some gentle ways to shut it down. A couple of weeks ago I was outside the bar where I play at jam sessions and someone offered to tell me a really juicy story about a woman I barely knew. I said, "You know, I'm not really comfortable having that kind of talk, I like her a lot and don't really want to change my mind." I felt so proud of myself because "listening boundaries" have always been difficult for me. Anyway, the "I'm not comfortable" phrase is great because it's an "I" statement and doesn't accuse the other person of doing anything wrong, which might make them feel defensive.

I do understand that it's very hard when you're part of a "scene."!

Thanks for your posts on the N/C thread last night, too, Rev. They helped me a lot today.

love, t_f

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