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Request for opinions on attractions to addictive profiles
September 5, 2001
10:14 pm
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hopahopa
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Well--here's the probable classic question. What do you think??? Is it possible for a healthy personality to be attracted to an addictive behavior profile. Given--not probable....but what about possible?

September 6, 2001
12:48 pm
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Molly
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It usually turns out to be a co-dependent type syndrome, a rescuer, a helper, a changer. Definately possible, look at your family of origin, anything similar?

September 6, 2001
1:00 pm
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Ladeska
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Yes, I think it's possible to "be attracted" but a healthy person - will not entangle themselves with an addictive person or if they do - will quickly step out of it.

But, addictive personalities are usually quite charming....so, is it easy to be attracted to them? Absolutely. But, all that glitters is seldom gold...

September 6, 2001
2:48 pm
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damaged
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Ladeska or someone what is your definition of addictive personalities?

September 6, 2001
3:16 pm
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Ladeska
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Damaged - In spite of the variety of activities that can be considered addictive, people who engage in them tend to have certain attitudes and types of behavior in common. An addiction is generally associated with relieving anxiety or blocking out other types of uncomfortable feelings. To a greater or lesser extent, people engaged in addictive behavior tend to plan their lives around it; in extreme cases they will do almost anything to obtain the substance or engage in the behavior. The addiction makes them neglect other areas of their lives. They are commonly secretive about it, either out of shame or to protect their access to a substance. When confronted, they generally deny that they have a problem, although privately they regret their addictive behavior, which in many cases they have tried without success to discontinue. They tend to rationalize engaging in the behavior and tell themselves they can stop whenever they want. They may also blame others for their addiction and often experience frequent and uncontrollable mood swings.

September 6, 2001
3:16 pm
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Ladeska
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A good book for further reference on this is - Players and Their Personalities by Terence T. Gorski.

September 6, 2001
10:18 pm
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Molly
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excellent recommendation Gorski, is good.

September 7, 2001
12:18 am
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damaged
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Thanks Laseska

That is a very good definition and you decribed my personality when I was drinking very much. I still do not like to have uncomfortable feelings and when I have alot of anxiety I still cut or think about doing it anyway. Is this part of the attictive personailty? Or would this be labled something else? Maybe no self controll or maybe just the f%%k its!!!!! I am really trying to work hard to understand why I do or feel the things I do. I lost many years to drinking and now I want to make up for lost time. I want to learn. Thanks Damaged

September 7, 2001
12:31 am
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damaged
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and where could I get this book?

September 7, 2001
12:42 pm
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Molly
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Gorski, has an institute in Maryland or Missouri,I believe, I haven't tried on line, but you might type in relapse prevention. He has been a leader in the field of addictive studies since the late 80's. I am sure that if you used one of the online searchs where you buy books, or if you walk into the book store, one of his books must be there and in the back of the book could be his web site or phone number to his institute, he has a catalogue of materials for the field.
Hmmmmm if Ladeska has the book she might post that information for you, if you say pretty please ?????

September 7, 2001
1:29 pm
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Ladeska
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Damaged....just order it from Barnes and Nobles or Amazon.com Either one.

You know, I don't know enough about you to comment on why you cut or drink. But - generally speaking, from what I've observed, we do a lot of things to avoid what really lays hidden. I know you've probably read things in the past that I've said regarding this and how we bury lies and try and build structures on the faulty foundation that won't support us for very long.

Cutting seems to indicate to me that you've sentenced yourself somehow, that the "guilt, shame and badness" lies within "you". Therefore, it would make sense that cutting relieves that toxic build up - from this webwork of lies within you. Just like a garbage dump where things are rotting - if you don't put pressure valves into the hillside - it will eventually explode because of all the rotting stuff underneath.

So, the same is true when we believe something wrongly about ourselves, bury it and then try to build a structure for living on top of it. We'll have tremendous earthquakes that will shake, rattle and roll us. We try and drug it, deny it, name it something else, cut it out of ourselves - but to no avail until......we really get into the "buried lies" themselves and replace them with truth. Trouble is - if a child's mind has believed these lies - then it's really hard to disbelieve it. Afterall, we, ourselves, put our seal of approval on the lies. We accepted them as fact. And if we tell ourselves something - it goes through no filter at all - we just accept it. If I say something to you - you send it through a discerning filter and go - hm,m,m....not sure if I believe that or not....

So, if something was accepted a long time ago by a child's mind - guess what? It's not going to come up and out very easily. In fact, chances are - you'd probably rather do anything else than "go there". It's been fertilized with all kinds of dead and dying stuff like - guilt, shame, trauma, hopelessness, etc. So, those ichy vines are growing real good in there....wrapping themselves around everything alive and trying to choke it to death.

But......you are here....searching, asking questions and coming up for air. This is good. You're a fighter. Just know that - when you do face whatever is buried - the defense system that you, yourself have erected - will be one nasty little collection of weaponry. But....also know - No. 1 - you built it, so you can disarm it and No. 2 - you probably had to build something really formidable because of what you were up against, whatever that was.....your defense system had to be bigger and nastier than what was coming against you. Make sense?

Taking responsibility for one's life doesn't mean that - we go look for someone else to blame everything on, nor does it mean that you be the only beast of burden either. What it means is - we look at things squarely, as they are. We position ourselves in such a place that says - I'm willing to let go of the stories I've told myself about things, about people, about myself. I'm willing to acknowledge that I may not have 20-20 vision and that I am probably lacking in the arena of being able to see dimensionally. I find it necessary now to - brace myself for - what is and has been - regardless of what that might be. I also acknowledge that - I have as much, if not more - power to overcome - since I have been using an enormous amount of power to suppress all these years. Pandora's box may have a lot of tools in it that I can use - as well as a lot of deep stuff that needs to be pulled out by the roots and replaced with seedlings of truth.

Bloodletting is a form of sacrifice. It's a way we purify ourselves. It's a way we allow ourselves to feel and not have guilt about it. We caused this pain, so we are in control of it......the pain that was caused a long time ago that is more than likely - the trauma we don't understand and at the root of everything stays buried - with our name plastered on it because it was the only thing that made sense at the time - to blame us for it. We can't control that - because we don't understand it. It was too much for a child's mind to handle - so we locked it up, dug a hole, buried it, blamed ourselves and won't let ourselves really acknowledge it's existence of whereabouts. We don't want to feel it - because we can't understand it and therefore - will have no power Over it. However......we can cut ourselves because it brings some relief to the poison that's oozing out from what's buried. But, by cutting - "we" are in control. It becomes about us - once again. Something - we did, that we are responsible for, that we can have some kind of power over - even if it is pain....

Make any sense to you?

September 8, 2001
1:42 pm
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hopahopa
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Molly, Ladeska, Damaged,
Thanks for the great insights and thouhts. Damaged--keep up the good work!

Over the last couple days I thought about how I would answer my own original question about "attraction to addictive personalities" and decided my answer would be, "well, might be attracted but probably wouldn't choose to be in relationship with that individual." (unfortunately :)) However, my original thoughts had to do with whether or not understanding what was happening and recognizing one's own health and sense of self might alllow for an overall healthy relationship--especially if the addictive personality type was healing, learning and growing. Stil sounds like not the best place to go to me.

But--as I was reading the web page articles I was thinking that probably everyone, to some extent, was codependent. In fact, the article that I liked that prompted my response on the discussion line was under the the topic heading "What is coependency? What's the definition?" That information talks about the idea--isn't everyone codependent? Who doesn't feel sad sometimes, deal with very uncomfortable feelings, want to reach out and help and the list goes on and on.

Anyway have been interested in your responses. Enjoy the weekend!

September 10, 2001
1:02 am
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damaged
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Ladeska
Yes what you had to say did make sence to me. I would also like to say thank you. The one thing I would like to ask is how do you acknowledge and face the stuff that had been buried? I have been seeing a counselor for a few months now but I don't know if I have been getting to the root of stuff. I don't think I even know what the root of the stuff is. I guess that is also not understanding it. I do know for sure now that I have not been drinking I do not like to feel. To me feeling just causes pain. I don't like to cry becasue if I cry then I have to deal with the fact I am feeling.

Cutting yes I guess I do feel in control when I do it or think about doing it. I my self thinks alittle of cutting is not that big of a deal. I would rather cut then go get drunk. Thats not ture I would love to go get drunk I just don't know if I would wake up after I did it.

I now just want to make up for lose time and if that means a few more scares and I can wake up in the morning and remember want I did the night before. I guess that is something I will have to live with.

September 10, 2001
1:25 am
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damaged
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I wonder if my glitter will ever become gold?

September 10, 2001
11:53 am
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Ladeska
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To try and answer your question about getting to stuff that is buried...it takes time and it takes you being dedicated to the long haul... It took time to bury it - it will take time to uncover it. And we can't psychologically take - everything at once either. It has to come out - a piece at a time in order for us to be able to really process things in a healthy manner. We protect ourselves by burying stuff. It's just that - after awhile - the shock time of being numb and in the dark needs to be over because now it's becoming toxic. To everything...is it's own season...

And with some therapists - they don't always want people to get there very fast either for reasons that aren't honorable ones. I say "some therapists" are this way. It's a jungle out there and people have to make money somehow. Can they lead a person away from getting to the root? Absolutely, it's done every day. Frustrates me, what I see in that regard, pisses me off quite frankly. And the other thing is - if there has been sexual abuse in someone's past, for example, I have seen case after case where the therapist or counselor won't go there on purpose. Why? Because they don't want to "know who" because then they would be responsible for turning them into the authorities by law in most states and they don't want to get sued. So, guess what? The person gets led away from the root, if that's what it is - and it's all because the therapist doesn't want to get involved with all that.

That's why I do what I do....got tired of the system, got tired of being a product of it, got tired of trying to work inside it or shoot to become accepted by society because I have a degree. Not interested. I hail the people that are true blue and honorable in their profession and on the other hand - quite despise the people that aren't that at all. All I try to do is use my life experience and common sense - putting that and a little talent to the best use I can.

Enough of that soapbox...anyways, - just be cautious with your therapist...and if you want to know what's up - ask them. If you have abuse in your background - just ask - hey, if I were to uncover something that had to do with sexual abuse - how do you stand on that professionally? Are you going to try and just pat me down about it, tell me it didn't really happen or just not want to go there period.

I say all this because I almost lost a teenage girl that I was working with a few years ago. I uncovered the abuse - then told the parents about it and said - you'll probably want to get her "professional" help, blah, blah. They did, found a woman who was trained in sexual abuse, she worked with her for many months without bringing up the sexual abuse once. This teenage girl almost succeeded in committing suicide because she wasn't getting "help" with what was really troubling her the most....but, everything else was being talked about - just not this....

I was furious!!!! The parents asked the therapist why she didn't go there and she said - she didn't want to get sued because in that state - if the patient says the name - they have to report it. That's the way it is with alot of professionals, so be aware of that....

So, I took her back for awhile and worked with her until I moved away. Just broke my heart that she almost died because someone wasn't doing their freaking job!!! Grrr....

There are really good professional people out there....have met some, not many, but I have very high standards regarding who I admire, too. Don't get me wrong here...it's like anything else - you have to shop for them, be discerning and not just trust anyone because they have a sheepskin, etc., etc. They can sometimes - be the biggest mind players of them all.... So, just like you would shop for a car or insurance or anything else that has to do with you - be discerning and wise when it comes to a therapist as well. They are being allowed into your head - so be very, very cautious..

I suggest you do alot of reading...and being self educated about things. Know your own stuff - don't just depend on this one person to tell you whatever...

Your glitter - already is gold...it is obvious to me - you have believed wrongly for a long time - that it was .....only glitter.... You don't have to uncover memories or see into the past - to disbelieve lies about yourself. In fact, it helps if some of that - happens first...(smile)

September 10, 2001
1:59 pm
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Molly
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Glad you addressed that glitter thing, exactly what I was going to say, as well as most of the soap box stuff. There is to much gain for therapist to get you well over night, and if you go back to the attitude is everything, you must ask your self what is your gain, in not getting that you are gold, a miracle, or even ok as you are and who you are. Why do you have to go into history, to know that what ever experience you have gone through, is ok where it is at, and just move foreward?????
Why do we have to analyze it all, process it all, understand it all, simply to get to some sort of point that may or may not exist?

September 10, 2001
3:42 pm
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Ladeska
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Molly - Hey girl. I hear you on the over-analyzing stuff. I agree that some people - don't need to go there...they couldn't handle it for whatever reason, too traumatic, etc., etc. And then there are people who do need to go there because they can handle it and with the pieces together - they can better free themselves from so many things. We need for things to - make sense sometimes in order to really have power over it.

But, you know, it's like anything else - every situation is unique.. All of us are different. Some people need to only know portions of what was blocked out or unclear as to the webwork and others - don't need to know anything, while yet some - can bear pretty much - the whole ball of yarn and be okay.

What I've learned is that - it's beneficial so many times for people to have some information because it unlocks all the webwork and lies they have believed for so long.

That kind of toxic stuff locked up - just always generates nothing but poison especially if something in our gut keeps telling us - something's not quite right here. That's probably the key right there - when you get that little buzzer going off - it's usually a pretty good idea to follow that signal to where it leads, knowing - that you might be real surprised.....what you find...

The people that I see living in soooo much bondage in families, friendships, marriages, etc., etc. - that won't walk or won't stop putting themselves in harm's way - simply because - they are still believing a dark little fairy tale they told themsleves one time when they were growing up - in order that - their psychological self might somehow survive the trauma.

Once the child is no longer a child and now has an adult mind - some things can be unlocked and set straight - in order that - if some butt needs to be kicked and some strings need to be forever cut - then sobeit and rightfully so.

Too many adults - stay connected to parents that are worse than criminals. Some murders are committed over the long haul in life and children of abuse are victims of that. Then these children grow up to be adults that continue to take their b.s. and be convinced that - it's all their own fault when in reality - they were innocent defenseless prey....and so the cycle continues on and on and is passed down to their children, etc. For that reason alone and all by itself - some people - Yes - very much need to find out what's what because it will enable them to turn around to people like that and squarely say - I don't like you, I don't want to know you, you're vile and I cut you off because I know and see what you are doing to me and have done - No, I won't allow it anymore because I now understand how you operate. There's the line in the sand - don't cross it.

But, if people just cover over - what they really need to see....then they continue to be victims of people that are little more than scavengers in this life - looking to see who they can devour next...and yes - this can be family. Blood does not always mean - love.

Are therapists the only way for them to become educated? Absolutely not. A good therapist can work wonders and can "guide" somewhat, but the person themselves has to become self-educated as well and want to do the internal work. This person also needs for "integrity" to mean a great deal to them. If it doesn't - they might as well sit on Pandora's box and knit socks or pick their nose - because - healing won't be knocking on their door any time soon. To want to see truth - they have to be a person of integrity to begin with. Alot of people "say" they want to get at the truth - but very few - are really willing to go there.

Consequently, alot of therapists are highly paid - babysitters. *smile*

September 10, 2001
3:54 pm
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craven
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We are often attracted to what we know or what we are comfortable with for personalities. Trying to figure out why we seek out these types of people requires us to look at ourselves, how does this affect you? Does this look like someone from your past, or does it seem like you repeatly seek addictive personalities?

I have found in my past that this type of person will only cause sorrw and pain and that I am seeking to relive an event from the past seeking to have a different outcome, which will not take place. Be alert, does it seem that it may be dangerous to you?

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