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Relationships suck!
February 19, 2003
12:46 pm
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Ok, maybe not all but I'm just in a mood. I've talked about this a lot on the Jenny thread but wanted to open it up to everyone for some help, some insight or just to give me a good kick in the rear.

To sum it up, I've been with my bf for 2 years. In that two years he only worked (in a band) for the first two months, taught guitar lessons from his home for about 4 months and then nothing. He sold his home last October, attempted to make it in LA but was only there three weeks for which I paid for and has been living with me ever since. He says he wants to work and he occasionally works odd jobs, temporary jobs, delivered flowers on Valentine's Day but nothing steady.

I get frustrated and the frustration come out in anger. I do not see a desire in him to work or help support us. I have three kids, I can support myself and them, but I shouldn't have to support him too. I made a decision that our love was more important and that I will support him until he gets on his feet. But now I feel that because I've done that, he has no urgency to find work. He has a home, he has food, a warm bed, clean cloths...why find a job? He has it made and I'm starting to feel like a fool.

The hard part is that I do love him and I know that he loves me. He is romantic and sensitive and loving...he just has no desire to provide. He says he provides for me emotionally but how far does that go when he doesn't provide otherwise.

It's hard too because I know that if he had a place to go I would ask him to leave. But he doesn't,he has no one, and no car, and no job. So how do I tell the man I love to leave with no where to go?

I got really mad this morning and said some things I shouldn't have. It's just that I have worked really hard to get where I am, to provide for my kids and myself. I have finally gotten above water and it feels like he is pulling me back down. I love him, but how can I go on like this?

I know I've probably posted this exact this a hundred times. I like to tell people the insantity quote. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" I guess I need to listen to that myself.

February 19, 2003
1:01 pm
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Hey Tracy, First of all (((Hugs))))
I think you have every right to feel the way you do about your bf. It is like you have another child to feed, clothe, and house. That is not what the relationship should be. He has to realize that sensitivity and love only go so far when you are in a relationship with someone. Personally I think you should give him an ultimatum about either contributing financially or moving out by a certain date. I know that you love him and I can see why. But he is taking advantage of you here. His music and other activities are not helping to pay the bills. Until he has a reason to change he won't. It is not unkind of unloving to tell him that he has to contribute financially to live there any longer. Actually you would be doing the loving thing by telling him that. He needs to realize that if you don't work then you don't eat. He has to get with the program.

February 19, 2003
1:24 pm
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Hi Tracylyn,
Hugs.....
My hubby quit hasseling about getting a job....Yahoo.

Now I am free to give advice 🙂

Seriously....
Would you be happier without him in your life....can you visualize yourself without him and going to work and supporting your kids and making room for another relationship with someone who supports himself financially?

If You can....ask him to leave. He has to take responsibility for his own problems. You have enabled him.

On the other hand, if you want to ask him to leave, Tell him to leave and get his financial affairs together and when he can do that for himself...you will be there.

Or you could continue to support him and feel used and resentful.

Maybe there are other options as well...like charge him a set amount per month...per se....$500 a month.
If he fails to pay by the 1st of each month....he is evicted 🙂

Or....that you love him but are not willing to support him anymore so he needs to find other arrangements immediately so that he doesn't ruin your love relationship with his financial irresponsibility.

Doing something is better than what your allowing to happen.....a choice to do nothing is still a choice 🙂

February 19, 2003
2:07 pm
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Hi Tracy. It's me, and you know where I'm coming from.

It seems you have been compromising yourself here to continue the romantic aspects of your relationship. You have allowed him to move some of your boundaries, which you feel is compromising yourself.

Of course, you might be sensitive about some of this because of issues in your previous marriage. Or because the traditional roles of husband/wife (or SO) are reversed.

Hey, I understand about needing to vent too. It does seem you are voicing your concerns to your SO. And maybe not seeing the results you were hoping for. So, the bar might need to be raised now. In the form of an ultimatum. Like you need to contribute so many $ to continue to live here. It doesn't seem like you care if he has a conventional job or a creative position. He just needs to pay his own way, in some shape or form.

Getting mad this morning was the tea kettle starting to boil over. You maybe need to evaluate where you are, where you want to go, and how to get there. Try putting everything down in writing. And put down the alternatives - including setting an ultimatum, changing your expectations, lowering your demands, etc.

Only you can decide, ultimately, what is right for your situation. I wish I could give him a swift kick maybe, but I am only in cyber space here...

Keep on talking. Figuring things out might include venting here, picking up the situation and looking at it, then putting it down for a while, and then picking it up again at a later time.

Remember, half the fun is in the journey. Don't let this frustration get the better of you. One baby step at a time.

And, by the way, you ROCK!.!.!.!

Jenny

February 19, 2003
2:42 pm
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Thanks girls~

I got really frustrated this morning because I asked if he was driving me to work (an inconvenience for me but much needed to find work). He said he didn't need to, he was going to look on-line for work.

Ok, looking on-line is not going to find him a job that he can walk to. He needs to get out there, hit the street and look. He had access to my van all weekend. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and he could have had it today and choose to do nothing. Yesterday, he said he made 3 phone calls but didn't drive anywhere to apply. On Monday, I was off work and the kids were home so I guess he just figured it was a day to hang out with us. Well, he had done that all weekend.

His complaint is that I'm treating him differently and expecting too much from him. He says he does things differently than I do and I shouldn't fault him for that. Maybe I do, I know I would do things way different.

I know I'm enabling him, why find a job. He has it made.

I've whined about this for months now and I know it's time to change. I had decided to ask him to move, that's not ending the relationship but rather giving us some much needed space, but he really has no place to go.

I have given ultimatums but then don't hold him to them. Something has got to give.

MJ, you asked if I want him in my life and I do. I know it would be hard to find someone out there like him. I had the financial marriage before. I walked away from a man that could give me everything finacially but nothing emotionally. It's such a difficult position to be in. And to top it off, I know my kids would miss him terribly.

February 19, 2003
2:47 pm
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Tracylyn, is he willing to play house-husband? If you have to bring home the bacon, is he willing to step up and care for the kids, take care of the house, etc? If he is, well then that's the setup that a lot of men are in, traditionally. Man works, woman is stay at home mom. In fact, I work with a woman right now who has that exact setup, but in reverse. She works full time, he doesn't work, but takes care of housework (except laundry, which she does because she doesn't like the way he does it), home repairs, pays bills, etc. Maybe this arrangement would work for the two of you.

If he isn't, then what "emotional support" are you really getting out of the relationship? It's not sex, you said that. It's not help with housework or the household. Does he mean that he will listen sympathetically when you vent on how tired you are, how overworked and stressed you are, "don't worry sweetie, you'll figure out how to balance it all someday" *pat pat* "now, pass me the cheetos, and while you're at it, get your bitch-ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie..."

You said it yourself... you worked really hard to get where you are. Now he is pulling you back down. You would throw him out if he had somewhere to go... he does have somewhere else to go! The wide wonderful world awaits, right outside your front door. You are giving him power here, yet you don't realize that you are the one with all the control. It's YOUR house. It's YOUR money. Deep down, he knows that, he resents that, and it's understandable that someone in that situation just might play whatever sort of manipulation games he needs to play to preserve his free ride, especially if he is terrified of joining the real world.

So, you made a decision to support him. What would it take to change your mind and reverse the decision? Did you promise him? If so, what did he give you in return?

And, what makes you think that what you said this morning was "wrong"? Was it how you felt? And was it the truth? How can the truth be wrong?

February 19, 2003
2:52 pm
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OK. Jenny (the practical side) coming out. Give him a time limit to have a job, or get some $, or he leaves.

I am not sure if you own your home or rent, but I bet he's not a co-signer. If he does not comply to your request (60 days, or whatever), you must make him leave and live somewhere else. He would have a set timeline, a set of demands, and repercussions if he does not do anything. He can go look for another place to live, find another sugar mama, sleep on a park bench, sleep in a shelter.

If he won't leave, you call the police to have him removed. This scenario can be done, with no legal hassles. If he gets violent at all, then a restraining order.

You know you could do this. Now the question is, do you want to? You are building that olde resentment. Which I know only too well.

Actions speak louder than words. He is not serious (in working), and neither are you (in sticking to your stated boundaries). Currently, he is winning and you are losing. If you can think of a win-win situation, try that first.

You've been doing this dance for 6 months or so? Having someone love you can be a great payoff, if it is enough to balance what you are feeling you are sacrificing. Wish I were there to take you out to dinner, a couple of drinks and let the kids play in the back. Of course, we would make this arrangement in Florida, not in Illinois! 🙂

You vent similar to the way I do. I like that! We might not get much done, but we feel much better!!

Good luck!! Jenny

February 19, 2003
4:38 pm
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GL~

You are making me think!!!! That's a good thing altough bf thinks I think too much from my head and not from my heart. I just don't think I have the luxury of always thinking from the heart.

To answer a few of the questions. We have these discussions and then he steps up to be Mr Mom for a day or two and then it stops. He is there when my kids get home from school and helps with homework and makes sure they pick up the house before I get home. He very rarely does the dishes and never cooks unless I ask. He does his own laundry but doesn't do mine (using my soap and water of course). When I ask him about these things he says he doesn't do them because I am such a perfectionist and he is scared of doing them wrong. (sometimes I am) But with this situation, if he started doing something it would be appreciated and I've told him that. He doesn't do any home repairs or pay bills. He is not a manly man. I know how to use tools better than he does. He always thanks me for cooking which is nice but sometimes I feel like the waitress that didn't get the tip after working so hard. More than a smile and a thank you would be nice.

Where you really made me think was his emotional support of me....because I think you hit it with "don't worry sweetie, you'll figure out how to balance all of it someday" That's is it. He will hug me, and dust me off when I fall, but really anyone can do that.

Our romance is incredible though. He is Mr wonderful, sensitive, romantic when we are really connecting. A lot of our trouble is that we are not very good when the rest of world tries to interact with the world that our relationship grows from. (I don't know if that makes sense) It's just that we are great together...then you throw in the kids, the house, the chores, the finances, the ex husband, work....blah blah blah.....and we start to loose something.

I have worked hard, damn hard, to get where I am and to start finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel and now everything extra that I have both financially and emotionally goes to him. He complains that I'm not emotional and loving and I complain that he can't support himself. That's all I want really, for him to support himself, I can handle the kids and myself and I am more than willing to do that and give him the freedom to do music or something that doesn't pay a lot. Just as long as it's something.

He can't handle the real world and I'm scared to push him out in it. I know I'm not responsible but I do love him and don't want to see him suffer.

I choose to support him and now I question that decision everyday. My decision lasted only a week (and that was a damn good week) but then his car got respossed and he then he wrecked mine. Yes, he hit my neighbors car with mine. Uggg, and then all this started again. Me, questioning the decisions that I have made to be supportive....because at what cost is it to me. I made no promises to him but more to myself to be more supportive, I told him about it and it made him feel really good. Now, he says I make him feel worthless. My thought.....then you can leave!

I said mean things this morning, I asked how he can look at himself? Where is his pride and I told him to step up and be a man....ouch! I felt bad after I got to work because I know I was lashing out. I told him he mooches off me just like he did his mom and his grandma for years and how can you do that to everyone. It's all things I need to say but not the way I said them and yes, I feel I was wrong.....my temper got the best of me.

Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing your thoughts....you are making me think and that's what I need.

February 19, 2003
4:51 pm
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Jenny~

Hey, I think I like practical Jenny. You are making me think too.

I rent, just moved in at the first of the year to this new place where I save $800 a month. He wanted to co-sign and I told him no. I knew that would complicate things even more. I told him we'd talk tonight. Go over what we both expect and what we both can live with. I will give deadlines and such but I think we both agree at this point that it's probably best if he moves out...just not in this way. Not angry and fighting and me yelling at him to get out. It's not good that way.

Oh boy, I really have resentment and it starts to get placed everywhere and with everything he does. He was eating ceral in bed last night and I was just ready to scream....I didn't, I simply told him it was bothering me. Little things are bothering me that wouldn't normally and sometimes I don't even want to go home....to my own house because he is there. It's tough when the honeymoon stage is gone and you are left with the real deal.

I just question myself continuously, how do I know it's right, how do I know he is the one...this is his pattern and I know he won't truly change that so what can I live with?

I think I've said this before, and maybe I'm being selfish but I've gone thru so much in the last 3 years to get where I am today. To stand on my own 2 feet and say I'm happy with who I am, I am financially independent, and proud of myself and I'll be damned if anyone is going to bring me down.

I just thought I was more together than this at this point, he is making me question how far I've actually come from this dance we call Co-Dependency.

February 19, 2003
5:04 pm
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Wow!!! I just couldn't help think "codependency". You are taking care of his every need, while he neglects alot of yours. If you continue to do this, he will continue to take advantage of it, and become less motivated to do something with his life. Do him a favor, either contribute or leave. The fact that you're even writing this, which I totally understand and love that we can vent here, says that you're feeling something wrong. When you work so hard to get where you're at, don't let anyone or anything bring you down. Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words...he may "hear" what you're saying, but your actions are continuing to allow him to do what he's doing. Does that make sense? I know it's a completely different situation, but we all do and take so much from the other person all in the name of love, I put up with years of alcohol/drug abuse for that reason. I knew he loved me, we professed our feeling of soul mates, best friends, there were times he melted my heart, said all the right things, etc. Took me 21 years to figure out that just love wasn't enough. Sending you hugs, I feel for the difficult position you find yourself in.

February 20, 2003
6:25 am
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Good Morning....Hugs to YOU

February 20, 2003
9:38 am
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Good morning Tracy,

Here's something to ponder: Even though my situation is different, we share some similarities. I think we both felt out of control in our first marriages. Well, when I went for another long term relationship, I wanted to be in control. Not that I knew that right up front, but I certainly was not going to get in the same position as in my 1st marriage. So, I went almost exactly opposite. Not in the middle with someone 50/50, but to the extreme of non-controlling. So now, years later, I am getting what I signed up for. Someone who wouldn't control me. But that same someone can't control their own life.

In a way, I think there is an internal conflict in ME. Yes, I will never, ever depend on another person for financial support. But, I don't want to raise this additional child either. I am not sure if anyone reaches a happy middle ground on this one. OK, maybe they do, but they didn't have as much dysfunction in their lives as I have had. So my perspective causes me to do this tetter-totter dance. Yes to keep him, No to keep him, Yes to dump him, No to dump him.

Like, I am never satisfied with what another person can give me. Because, for love, I would give 110%. And most people don't. I hope you understand what I am saying here -- that it is part of the codependant side of me. That causes me to never have a balance on the give and take scale. And that is not my husband's fault. And I haven't quite found out how to achieve that balance.

Does this ring any bells for you, Tracy? Because you come across as so together, so strong. And then, like me, you post a thread that is riddled with this conflict.

I hope I am not rambling too much here. This is something fairly new to me too. OK, the concepts aren't new, but I have never applied this view to my way of thinking. Oh no, I couldn't be so 'duh' to act like this! But maybe I do....

Jenny

February 20, 2003
10:25 am
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Jenny~

Wow, well yes I agree with you completely. In my marriage, I was completely controlled. I lived my life according to him and to make him happy. So now that I broke free of him, made huge changes in my life, started working full time and become independent....I swore to myself that no one would ever again control me and yes, I guess that's why I ended up with bf. Although I do think he is somewhat controlling, he just goes about it by pulling at my heart strings.

I think I saw that he was a loner and he needed me and that made me feel great.....to be needed by someone. My husband didn't need me for anything except to clean the house and raise the kids. Or if he did need me, he didn't know how to show it. With bf, I guess it's those traits that first attracted me that are now really turning me off.

I was talking to my younger sister last night. She made a comment to me that if it was just about having fun, bf and I are perfect. We love the same music, movies, food and love to do the same things. But when it's about responsibilities and important issues....we just don't mesh.

I did the same as you. I went from one extreme to the other. From a man that brought home 6 figures, to a man that doesn't bring home 6 cents. A white collar, GQ cover, BMW driving ass, to a blue jean wearing, long hair, musician with no car at all. Geeez, how ironic.....be careful what you wish for eh?

Maybe someone has a spell I can cast to merge the two of them together....ahhh, the perfect man. hahahaha. At least I still have my sense of humor.

Thanks Jenny, you've got me thinking again!!!

February 20, 2003
10:31 am
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Sosos~

You make perfect sense and I hear you loud and clear.

I've been with bf for two years. I've really told myself all along that I am with him because I choose to be, not because I need him. I really felt like I was controlling the co-dependency but OMG, you are so right. When I read my own posts that's all I see too. Which just makes me very sad because I thought I had worked so hard not to be. The first time I read Melody Beattie's books about CoDependency I thought there would be a picture of me in there.....I should have at least been getting royalties since she is writing all these books about me. haha!

I know the signs, and I got em. "the caretaker" "the need to be loved no matter what" "the peacekeeper" "the conflict avoider" I show signs of all of these and then some.....guess I wasn't as far along as I thought.

Ugggg, but how do I know. I know I love him and I don't want to be with anyone else. He is good for me other than the financial issues....so what is more important...that's what I can't figure out.

February 20, 2003
12:23 pm
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I can't believe what you wrote about what first attracted you is now what turns you off! My gf told me that about her bf. He treats his "mommy" so great, she admired that. Well, now it's overkill, he's 40+ and still attached to her apron. She told me this as I realized that a relationship I started just before leaving home, with what I thought was an incredible caring friend, has now turned into an extremely "needy" whiner. I'm still friends with him, but I know he's not what I want or need. God help me if I find myself with another needy person who I must always take care of! And now I find myself with someone who does not seem to be needy at all, and at the same time, doesn't seem to need me and it depresses me...so when you find that perfect man, PLEASE TELL ME HE HAS A BROTHER!!!LOL

February 20, 2003
12:52 pm
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You see, I think that is what worries me. If I choose to walk away from this relationship with bf how do I know the next one won't be worse.

Like I've said, other than this financially stuff we are pretty amazing. We are very connected, all of this is just getting in the way now.

I left my husband that could provide because he wasn't there emotionally, now if I leave my bf who is there emotionally but can't provide, what am left with?

Ahhhhh, MYSELF! =) That ain't so bad!

February 20, 2003
1:10 pm
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Hey, I like that:

"I left my husband that could provide because he wasn't there emotionally, now if I leave my bf who is there emotionally but can't provide, what am left with?

Ahhhhh, MYSELF! =) That ain't so bad!"

I guess that's why it's so hard to find the right man. Here's a general question:

Does anyone actually have the right mate? And how do you know? Or, are you saying they are great today and suck 10 years from now?

You can count on yourself, Tracy, but you might get lonely once the kids leave. I certainly don't have any answers, but this thread is stimulating...*smile*

Jenny

February 20, 2003
2:10 pm
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Yeah, it kind of makes you think doesn't it.

February 20, 2003
9:42 pm
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SEND ME THE BROTHER!!! I had a great relationship in alot of ways with my X2b, if I could have eliminated his addiction problems. I was willing to put up with alot for so long, for fear that I would never find this "true love" again. But the very moment I made the decision, and I couldn't have guessed or planned how I'd get there, the true love thing never entered my mind. I just knew I had to go...now, on many a lonely night when I want the comfort of a man, and in a "relationship" sense, not the friendly sense that I currently have a man as, I start to think about never finding that true love happiness again. I wish I could be one of those people that say they don't need it, want it, are happy with themself, etc. I'm Very Happy with myself, but I'd be a liar if I said that's all I need or want. I don't feel they're are honestly that many people that truly want to be alone/without a partner in their life. It boils down to how much we want to put up with or block and for how long we can do it. The thread title rocks! RELATIONSHIPS SUCK!!!

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