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Regain the peace of the world.
September 16, 2001
12:55 pm
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Windslasher
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If there will be a war going on, it means that there will be more life gone and more people suffer.

What had happened is already done and why should we be continue to take more other life’s?? Can we human be more kind to each others??

Over here, I would like those people who had been planning for all these, to take a few minutes to think about this, what if all these happen on their own family or country??

Thinking that human should treasure more about each other lives. I decided to write this and really hope that the peace of the world can regain as soon as possible.

Regards.

September 16, 2001
7:15 pm
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SuzyQ
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Believe me, I feel the same way. My sister had worked at the WTC at one time, and I knew 2 people who were late to work that morning. The unfortunate thing is that we may have to become violent to prevent violence (kill the forces behind this). As illogical and senseless as this seems, I know I don't have the answers. Obviously, we're both preaching to the choir. I hope that someone who should see this does.

September 17, 2001
12:49 am
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Windslasher
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As far as it concern over here, there is lots of people who are not involve over this incidents. In this case, shall I be asking this, will it be fair to have their life or hurt them and let them suffer for nothing, by having a war??

I do know that it is really unfair for the people in that incident, can we human stop doing things to hurt each other??

For those who are having believe, do you think that the god of yours will be happy about that you be involve of trying to hurt other?? Believe that god should be saying this now, 'Can human stop hurting each other and just do what they should be as a human?'

Thank to SuzyQ. I really hope that someone can look into our human values.

September 17, 2001
12:32 pm
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Cici
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On a personal level, each day we wake up and our lives are a series of choices. We make choices, and hopefully as children we learn that our chioces have consequences. The intelligent person internalizes the consequences and decides which tactic is best used in each situation.

My husband made an interesting analogy, mainly because he used to wrestly in high school and had intimate experience with this. He said that terrorism is like ringworm (ewww). It's highly contagious, it spreads if it goes untreated, and if you don't use the right tools it won't heal at all. But if you scratch it, it makes you feel better, but it spreads the fungus even more.

That's the thing. If you use violence to root out something you dislike, you run the risk of making your enemy into a martyr to his followers. Then for every leader you kill, there are 2 more to take his place. I am preparing myself for a long, arduous, painful process which may or may not eventually have positive results.

September 17, 2001
1:36 pm
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Ladeska
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I think it's important to separate the fact that Defending your nation and it's inhabitants and killing as we have experienced are two different things. And while it is a nice thought to sit and want peace and imagine that the people we are addressing are willing to "think peace" as well - it appears to be only that - a nice thought.

It would be one thing IF we were dealing with reasonable people. But, it is more than clear - that is not the case. America would not be America - if we had not fought for our freedoms, which you now enjoy....

So, to sit back and say - peace, peace is lovely, admirable even, but there is a time to talk, to reason, to negotiate and then when it is abundantly clear, as it is in this case - when we have an entity who continues to advance and threaten our innocent lives - then what would peace lovers have us do? Sit back and meditate while even more attacks are lobbied at us? Would that be a fine example to our children and to the rest of the world?

Whatever example it might be - America would not be here very long because with freedom and peace of mind - comes a price. And if you do not defend your people, then you deserve what comes.

It would be wonderful if what we aspire to in our minds about peace and not wanting another person to die - could be concurred with and understood by the other parties. That would be amazing and Great! But, to be naive and stick our heads in the sand and chant Peace, Peace while we are being attacked on every side is rather cowardly and our collapse is absolute.

If someone comes into your house and murders your children - are you prepared to sprinkle their path with rose petals and have them back over for breakfast the next morning and try to convert them over to your way of thinking with forgiveness and love in your heart? If you would do this - you would be a fool and would probably die right alongside your children.

There is a time for war....for rooting out evil. No, it is not a time to kill more innocent lives and I pray that our "force" isn't about doing that, but rather about going right to the mark for who's responsible. I pray that this is their intention. But, in war - innocent people do die and for that....my heart is very sad....The Afghan people don't deserve this..they have suffered enough, too.

We can't have our cake and eat it, too. At some point, we have to be prepared to sustain loss in order to preserve what we have worked long and hard to have.

September 17, 2001
2:56 pm
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Molly
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I believe that we must not loose sight that it is not just America that we are reacting to protect.
There are just to many areas where the terrorists have been allowed to exercise their rights????? America has been to casual, and just like anyother equasion must regain controll to some extent. This is a wake up call for the world, look how long populations have suffered with no change, like give me a break Ireland, this Catholic Protestant thing, where school children can no longer walk in peace, or Israel, I wonder what it will be like for those populations to just once sleep with both eyes closed?
Its not just about us, US, we are just one of the I guess Parent figures that must assist in setting the standards by which we are willing to live.
It is I am afraid going to be a difficult process, but usually the more difficult the task the better the rewards. I just don't want to live out some Mel Gibson movie, ok?

September 17, 2001
5:43 pm
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pg lova
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As a firm believer in God, I believe that the people who have done this should be executed no doubt. The Bible makes it plain and clear that "Whosoever shedeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." I don't however believe we should declare war on a country. Think of the innocent people we'd be killing, somebody's mother, somebody's father, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin, or neice. But, as I stated for the responsible person(s) execute them. Even in biblical times, the law was that if you killed someone you were killed, if you stole, your hand was cut off, etc. Now, I'm aware that one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not kill, but that's talking about committing a murder. It does not refer to carrying out the law. Therefore, I say, find the party(ies) responsible for this vicious attack and execute them.

September 17, 2001
6:08 pm
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Molly
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For years I have thought that we should go back to stonning in the town square, a mark on the forehead of a child abuser or adulterer, theif, or murderer. It would sure make life easier. if they repent say after so many years then we can put the line through it, but still be aware of the potential of relapse.

September 17, 2001
6:41 pm
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Ladeska
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Whatever we allow - basically - we deserve. And just like relationships, if we don't have boundaries with someone who is cunning, sneaky, dishonest, charming and yet rather wicked to us - then we have no one but ourselves to blame when they keep winding us up and walking all over us, right?

The sociopaths of this world - don't care. They don't have feelings like people would like for them to have. We get real uncomfortable sometimes with that kind of dementedness. It's scary alright and the force that is behind it shouldn't be flirted with either. We have a real bad habit of denying this even exists. And as long as we take that attitude - this kind of evil will continue to advance.

We've let the barn door open and the wolves have walked right in...many times over again.

So, while it's great and wonderful to have a free loving society, this isn't the 60's and the 70's - the worst of it won't be a few people strung out on LSD. These wolves - will gut you, have you for their dinner, celebrate and come back and get your children for desert.

Should we have stricter laws about immigration? Damned straight. Should we have tough security at the airports? Absolutely. Should we start being really AWARE about some things that - matter - instead of paying more attention to how much money we are making or what the last episode of Friends was all about? Well, if we don't - say goodbye to freedom altogether. It's that simple. The fat cat has been asleep and the dogs are in the building.

Good news is - we are a resilient people and we take in the butt just about as good as anyone and better than most. When we "wake up" - we wake - all the way up... I just hope our brawn doesn't get ahead of our brains. Been known to happen.

September 18, 2001
1:31 am
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Windslasher
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"Don't just because of a tree and give up the whole forest." I do agree that the terrorists should be executed no doubt, but the innocent people in the country do not deserve such.

Let put ourselves under their shoes. Each day, they have to wake up with fear of the war going on soon. It is really unfair, especially when there are news of chemical bomb be using.

I really hope that the war can be prevent, and those terrorists and those mastermind behind been caught and punish.

Hope that we will be fair to those who deserve the way they should.

Regards.

September 18, 2001
8:29 am
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sue2001
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I don't think any one of the americans want to take innocent lives and I for one don't want to have blood on my hands BUT we along with many other contries have put up with terrists for long enough... It is time to stand and say look we arn't going to take it anymore... I am sorry that more innocent people will die.. but that is out of control already and where ever any thing may or may not happen at least they have the advantage that we didn't have.. and that is that they will at least have an idea that something will happen... what happened to us was horrible... that was what us country folks call a sucker punch.... a weak little coward came from the back when it was least expected and punched... I

September 18, 2001
2:41 pm
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Ladeska
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Windslasher....I really think that most of us absolutely concur with not wanting anymore innocent people to die, regardless of what country or people as a result of all this.

The problem is - these terrorists - make their own people hostages and put them in front of them as shields. To them - human life means nothing.

Extracting the ones to blame - from this webwork they have created will be extremely difficult. But, what we have to remember is that we are not the ones who are holding these people hostages and we are not the ones who started this whole thing in the first place. Just as the fighter jets were prepared to shoot the plane out of the sky that was headed toward Washington with our people on it in order to prevent heavier casualties, we are also prepared to suffer loss on both sides in order to find these people.

We have to be prepared for that because they have made it that difficult. If we take the stance France has in the past, for example, and don't deal with terrorists, the price paid will be ultimately higher and higher. These people are not going to stop advancing. We are not going to give them what they want because they want our ultimate destruction - plain and simple.

You cannot ignore them, nor can you reason with them. So, at some point, decisive and swift action has to be taken. It's either that or suffer the consequences of being passive. Either we do stand strong and will lay it all on the line or we don't. It's that simple.

Some people may be prepared to make compromises, to look the other way, try some more talks, etc., etc. But, I don't think any of those people would be the Americans and citizens of other countries who lost family members in this attack. Nor would it be the people who lost people on the USS Cole.

This really isn't about getting revenge. I think the leaders of our nation are more grown-up than that. We have our feelings, true enough. But, this is about drawing the line. The action we take is about being the first one on the block to say - Enough is Enough and to begin the process of rooting out terrorism for the long haul for everyone's safety.

Anyone can sit on the fence and buy a little more peaceful time, but what's not understood about that is - you're going to get hit anyways, so you either take a pro-active approach and a position of offense or you are forever in the position of defense.

Freedom and Justice is either worth fighting for - or it isn't.

September 19, 2001
2:50 pm
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Cici
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Ladeska,

I respect that your past experiences and personal beliefs lead you to a certain way of looking at the world, and of course the same is true for all of us. In terms of personal morals, we all know that what we believe isn't necessarily the only way to think or the only way to be right. There are many paths to the same end.

I remember when I was younger, I went to hear Tibetan Buddhist monks speak. I was impressed because, an entire country taken over with hostile intent, monks put to death, tortured, killed for their beliefs, miraculously maintaining and upholding their religious beliefs in nonviolence. I'm not saying that we should do the same, but that their actions aren't pitiful. I think they are worthy of respect, and just because they don't approach terrorism (for this is what they experienced for the last 40 years) the same way we do doesn't make them weak or stupid. They chose instead to take offense or defense out of the question. They are not defensive or offensive. So - there are different cultures, and different reactions, and just because they are different doesn't make them wrong.

There was a big march in my town, on campus, a rally for peace. Not to say we shouldn't do anything, but to remember that peace IS valuable. We make economic progress, build infrastructure, design more effective methods of education, we live better lives in times of peace, which is why our world leaders have invested much time anf effort trying to maintain the balance of power.

What I fear is a war that has no identifiable end. There is no clear enemy, since there are endless multitudes or terrorist organizations. There can be no enemy, then, that can surrender. Can anyone kill all the fireants in the world? All the bees?

There is a time to take decisive action, but we MUST consider the consequences. This act did not take place in a vaccuum, nor will our retaliation.

BTW, most terrorists are not sociopaths nor do they have any evidence of serious mental illness. See article below.

September 19, 2001
2:51 pm
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Cici
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POSTED AT 2:11 AM EDT Thursday, September 13

Twisted view of the world drives some to mass murder
By MARCUS GEE From Thursday's Globe and Mail

When most people picture a terrorist, they imagine a sadistic madman
like the Russian hijacker played by Gary Oldman in the movie Air
Force One . In reality, many modern terrorists are more like Saeed
Hotari. Until June, he was known to neighbours and friends as a shy,
devout young man with boyish looks that made him appear younger than
his 22 years. He attended mosque, observed fasts, studied the Koran
and worked hard at his job as an electrician. But one night he rode
by car to Tel Aviv, joined a lineup outside a beachfront disco and
detonated a bomb hidden in his clothing. Twenty-one Israelis died,
including the teenage girl he had been talking to in the line.

To most reasonable people, this week's terrorist attacks on the
United States seemed to be the acts of madmen. Who but a lunatic
would fly an airliner into an office building crowded with innocent
people? In fact, say those who study the matter, terrorists are
seldom out of their minds. Psychological profiles of captured
terrorists have shown they often do not fit the stereotype of
unhinged loners or embittered outcasts. Instead they are like Mr.
Hotari: rational, logical, deliberate and deeply devoted to their
cause. "The notion that they are insane in a clinical sense is
misplaced," said Philip Schrodt, a terrorism expert at the University
of Kansas. "They are not hearing voices in their heads. They are just
utterly convinced that what they are doing is right, and they will do
anything to achieve their objective."

Mark Juergensmeyer, a California scholar who interviewed several
terrorists for his book on religious terrorism, Terror in the Mind of
God, said he was struck with how sane they seemed. "My impression of
virtually everybody with whom I talked was that they seemed not only
normal but pleasant, affable, with above-normal intelligence. If you
didn't know they were associated with terrorism, you'd think they
were good people." What made them different from ordinary people, he
said, was their twisted view of the world. Whether they were radical
Sikhs from India, Christian militants from the United States or
Islamic fundamentalists from the Middle East, he said they believed
they were part of a titanic struggle between good and evil. As for
the mindset of those who carried out Tuesday's attacks, Prof.
Juergensmeyer said: "I have no question in my mind that these people
died with a feeling of exhilaration that they were entering an
enormous struggle on the side of the forces of good," he said. For
the terrorists, the struggle is so important they could easily
rationalize killing thousands of people, he said. "If you view the
world as at war, then all things are possible."

For Saeed Hotari, the war was close to home. A refugee, he returned
from Jordan to his father's West Bank hometown to find the place
beggared by years of Israeli occupation. Like many young Palestinian
men, he was brought up to despise Israel, Israelis and all that they
stand for. In a note he left for his parents, he promised to turn his
body into "fragments and bombs which run after the people of Zion,
blowing and burning what remains of them." His father later told the
newspaper USA Today that he was proud of his son's sacrifice. "He has
become a hero. Tell me, what more could a father ask?"

Terrorism experts say the approval of the community is an important
reason why terrorists do what they do. In a recent opinion poll, 78
per cent of Palestinians said they supported suicide bombings against
Israel. The encouragement of radical Islamic clerics is also key,
experts say. In some Islamic schools in the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
young people are taught that if they sacrifice themselves in the
struggle against Israel, they will reap rich rewards in the
afterlife, including the services of 72 beautiful virgins
with "complexions like diamonds."

"In the West, we might say that these people are mentally ill, but in
parts of the Middle East, what they do is sometimes culturally
accepted, even encouraged," said David Schenker, a research fellow at
the Washington Institute for Near East policy. "There is a certain
school of thought that this type of thing is selfless - it helps your
community, it helps your family." He said the Koran forbids suicide,
so radical clerics describe suicide attacks as acts of "self
martyrdom." Far from being loners, Mr. Schenker said, terrorists are
often part of a close web of comradeship that supports and encourages
them. Like soldiers in battle who sacrifice themselves to protect the
lives of their brothers in arms, today's terrorists may give up their
lives at least partly because they know their peer group will respect
them for it.

Walter Laqueur, a scholar and the author of a book on terrorism, said
the growing breed of religious or sectarian terrorism accounts for
half of the terrorist attacks in recent years. "The new terrorism is
different in character, aiming not at clearly defined political
demands but at the destruction of society and the elimination of
large sections of the population," he writes in The New Terrorism:
Fanaticism and the Arms of Mass Destruction. "In its most extreme
form, this new terrorism intends to liquidate all satanic forces,
which may include the majority of a country or mankind." That makes
them different from previous kinds of terrorists who had specific
demands, such as the release of imprisoned comrades. The aim of the
new breed is simply to lash out against a perceived enemy, more often
than not the United States. It is not just Islamic militants who see
the world that way. Prof. Juergensmeyer sees the same war-to-the-
death mentality in American Christian militias, right-wing Jewish
fanatics and Sikh extremists. "What makes religious violence
particularly savage and relentless is that its perpetrators have
placed such religious images of divine struggle - cosmic war - in the
services of worldly political battles," he writes in his
book.

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September 19, 2001
3:17 pm
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Ladeska
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Cici...no question that Peace is valuable. And there are many roads to an end, true indeed. I don't think that the Monks that you mentioned or wrong or stupid in what they believe. Not at all. That is what was right for them and I admire that.

One could follow that thought pattern through to say that you could also admire these terrorists, for they too are just on a different path, based on beliefs different from ours. For as this article portrays - they can make a good case for whatever it is they do. And don't mistake me - I very well understand how very intelligent, charming and seemingly good....this particular personality is. That one - is deeply engrained in me.

So, as far as respecting different beliefs and other people's right to do whatever - I think our country has a good history of allowing that, but....when someone brings that passion and bursts through the front door with it and proceeds to kill just because it feels good - Then it becomes - a huge problem.

Yes, this could escalate into something that no one wants. But, as I asked before, when someone can come up with an answer that will bring everyone to the table, can make some of these people listen and want to stop with these attacks on us - I fully believe everyone would listen and be interested.

So far, the parties that really need to be at that table - aren't there and won't be coming anytime soon.

September 19, 2001
3:42 pm
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Cici
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Actually, the article simply indicates that the people who engage in these activities cannot be labeled with any clinical disorder. I don't think you could follow the thought through and admire terrorists.

An interesting tactic, when you read the article through, comes to mind. It mentions that this feeling of being "Right" (which I think we can all relate to because we've all been passionately and irrationally convinced at one time or another that we were RIGHT) is cultural reinforced.

A simple Skinnerian solution: take away the cultural reinforcement. Organize Islamic task forces to distribute information throughout the masses of what true Islam is. Take the time to organize summit meetings with the leaders of countries where Islam is the majority religion and create a diaglog between the US and those countries, in order to change US foreign policy.

The US has a dismal history in respecting different beliefs and people's right to do whatever. The Civil Rights movements comes to mind, when black people weren't allowed to do whatever. Also, prohibition, the Civil War, the abortion controversy, capital punishment. Japanese internment camps during WW II.

We have the ability, as thinkers, to choose between a multitude of actions each time we make a decision. But since you suggested it, I think I will do further research into the founding of the Mujadeen, which later evolved into the Taliban, and USSR-initiated actions in Afghanistan, as well as the history of Islam and the Islamic countries and US foreign policy in regard to the Middle East. Maybe even one person working for peace is better than none.

September 19, 2001
5:26 pm
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That article states that these people aren't lunatics, just that they passionately believe in their cause. Bull-oney.

There will be no peace with terrorists because they will go to any means to do what they think is "right". Peace with THAT kind of mentality? You think that they want peace? No way. Right now the terrorists are laughing in the face of the "peacemakers" saying "Peace? Blow it out your a$$."

September 19, 2001
6:13 pm
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Ladeska
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Cici...well....I think it is a good thing that you are looking into these things. And maybe the Skinnerian solution should be brought to the attention of our leaders as well. Sounds rather fascinating....

As far as your comment regarding - The US has a dismal history in respecting different beliefs and people's right to do whatever....yes, we have failed at times - miserably. But, we have also succeeded more times than not. Otherwise, neither of us would be here. There wouldn't be an America. Would you want to go to Vietnam to live or to Afghanistan or maybe China and see how much your rights and religious freedom is tolerated there?

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