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POLL: Did You Leave Your Partner or Did Your Partner Leave You?
August 8, 2007
4:48 pm
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Pom 34
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Wow! That's great! Really a breakthrough, I think.

It's sooo hard to stop using on your own. We can take away the drugs, but then we are still left with the same problems that caused us to use in the beginning. It's the problems that really need attention, not the drugs; they're just a smoke screen! A survival mechanism, really, for people who are in so much pain about facing their realities.

Only other's who have succeeded by gaining clean time and WORKING (yes it's WORK) the program can help a newcomer because 9 times outta 10 they went through the same stuff early on in their recovery and they can have suggestions as to how to help. Like our message board here, you know? Same thing!

It's baby steps, though. And I am mentioning all his "pain" to you... You may already know this, but try NOT to feel sorry for him and his pain. This actually aides his disease. Bottom line: (IMHO) People use beacuse:

1) They are afraid to be who they are

2) The reality of who they are is too much for them to look at

It's all fear based.

And we know how easy it is for men to express their pain, right -yeah, right- They take it out on us. It's just natural, but they can heal. I have seen hundreds of people, men and women, heal and continue to heal.

There is no quick fix in recovery. It's always with you on some level or another. Whether you have 50 years under your belt, or you start out at day one AGAIN after repeated relapses.

Anyhow, I won't bore you any more, but I was only hoping this may help you.

One more thing!!

In the rooms, they always tell newcomers to do just 3 things and then see how they feel about meetings.

1)get a "Big Book" (NA or AA)

2)see if you can get to 90 meetings in 90 days

3)get a sponsor

That's it!

That's when they say after that, you don't have to come back and we will gladly refund your misery!

He's got nothing but time, right?

THERE'S ALWAYS HOPE! Mine for you included!

Take it easy on yourself! Keep us posted!

Pom 34

August 9, 2007
8:33 am
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_anonymous
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Pom- I only knew my husband to be under the influence until he went to jail. Now he sounds different, talks different and thinks different. Even though the major flaws are still there. I have no idea what to think because he is still behind bars. I have no idea what he will do once he is released. I am mostly concentrating on restoring myself and my life to who I was before I met him. I am sure he will not like that.
Pom- Now that he is in jail. Do you think it would be best if I just quit communicating with him until he gets out and then see what he does?

August 9, 2007
10:10 am
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lalasgirl
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destiny,
sounds like you are still hanging on just like me. i have a good idea my husband will go to jail again. maybe...maybe not. but 4 charges and two being domestic felony and fraud...hmmmmm? you know....i still went to see my husband the first time he was in jail over dislocating my jaw. silly me. he sounded better, sounded different...why sure he did...he couldn't consume the drugs or alcohol in there....he was sober. BUT IT WAS A FORCED SOBER....when they get out...they stay clean just long enough to suck you in. we were that happy 12 step couple attending meetings and reading our big book...and then drinking came back in and sanity left out the back door. there are no promises...just hurts when dealing with people like us...and i say us because...i enable and he allowed me to enable....we both have problems....only God can sort out the addiction. I know i am powerless over the unmanagebility of using. so destiny & Pom....are you relatives of mine???LOL...we sure seem to spout the same storyline and have the same mindsets. (we are all looking for the miracle from God to give us back a WHOLE man a WHOLE love)...take care ladies....and good thoughts and ((hugs)) to you both.

August 9, 2007
10:22 am
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lalasgirl
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ooops...i didn't answer the question:

he left me emotionally first, then he left me physcially....but first he stayed just long enough to hurt me emotionally and physically. i have such low self esteem and i am working on that because not only did he leave me...but I LEFT MYSELF....

August 9, 2007
1:24 pm
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Pom 34
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Yes I think all three of us MUST be related somehow!!! 😉

Hi Destiny,

Do I think it would be best if you quit communicating while he's in?

Hmmm... That would be really hard to do, I think. But a good idea at some level.

How about 1/2 of that... Since it'll be hard, try to baby step it. Maybe have a specific time or day to speak with him once per week. I think that may help you focus on YOU right now. And, if you are both being as productive as you can toward healing in each of your lives, you'll have good stuff to talk about.

Here's how I approach my husband's addictions (one of the many ways, anyway...):

I have NO, NONE, ZERO expectations of him anymore. This takes pressure off of him (pressure causes him to use) and keeps ME SANE and I don't get disappointed. also, he will do what HE WANTS. If I keep him from doing that and it's something negative, this only aggrivates the behavior as he supresses it. If all is out in the open, even if I don't like the fact that he smokes pot, for example, I will get to make choices and decisions based on facts and not the crazy shit running around in my head. HONESTY is important even if it's not what you want to hear.

**Users have been disappointing people their whole lives. When we as spouses get disappointed, I think it not only drives us crazy and hurts us, it hurts them, too.** This is also us looking at OUR behavior, which is how healing starts I think.

I cannot expect my husband to do anything I think he should! This gives him freedom and as of late he is making better choices -for him- not for me!

This would be a good start for you I think. Just focus on not expecting ANYTHING from him. Like if he is supposed to call you on a certain day, don't expect him to do it. Then, if it happens, you will be plesantly surprised!

Do this in all areas of your life for practice FOR YOU -not him-

I.E. If the cable guy says he's coming at 1pm DON'T expect him to show up on time. Run errands (or whatever)at 1pm if he isn't there. This means you are meeting your own needs, but if he does show up, then you are plesantly suprised!

Sounds kinda negative, but it's not and it works to practice this.

It is about INDEPENDANCE not CODEPENDANCE.

You can do it! Giver'er a try!

HUGS!! Keep in touch... If he is getting clean and not just drying out, it'll be really weird at times, I promise. Sometimes for people recovering, it's more of a trip to get clean then the weirdness that comes with using...

Pom 34

August 10, 2007
10:55 pm
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POM- I saw him in jail today. He looked like a totally different person. He shaved off this horrible beard. He looked like I have never seen him before. No more droopy eyelids, puffy face, pinpoint pupils. He started crying when he saw me. We had a really good visit. The face to face visit was much better than reading letters and talking to him on the phone. He said that he deserved to be in there. He said that he was using his time there wisely to get better. He said while he was on drugs he could not experience emotions and now he can. I just sold the home that he used to hand out at, trash, drink, lay around. I told him he would have nothing to come back to. I told him that he lost everything and hopefully he will think twice before using again. He talked about his back pain and said he needed the alcohol to help it. He does not enter Rehab until The first of next month. This is the first time I ever saw my husband clean and sober and able to express his emotions. He said he really needed me to talk to. That was it. For the first time since I can remember I actually had a good feeling about him. I was shocked to see such a gentle, soft spoken man.

August 10, 2007
10:57 pm
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_anonymous
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lala- sounds like he quit and stayed. If you read about the sociopath you will realize his problems had nothing to do with you.

August 11, 2007
8:33 am
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risingfromtheashes
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destiny -

he is being FORCED to be this man - he has no choice - he can't use or drink in the slammer - so of course his emotions come out - he has nothing to hide them with.

please be careful.

one other thing - he NEEDS you to be there for him.

well - WHAT ABOUT YOU???????????

what about your needs?

If he needs you this badly, chances are, he has nothing to give in return.

He is broken - it will be AGES before he is fixed and whole.

In the meantime - are you gonna sit back and GIVE GIVE GIVE to help him - while your needs don't get met because he has nothing to give?

Think about that...what you are entering into is a completely codependent situation - another phase.

He needs you to stand by him - to RESCUE him from his pain - to be his angel - but what do you get in return?

Keep reminding yourself of that.

All he has to give right now is words - and even then - he doesn't sound like he's giving much of that - the focus is on him - the whole time you were there, it was about him and how he sees the light - how he messed up.....I see NOTHING about you, your pain, your needs.

Please Please PLEASE be careful.

Sociopaths have so many faces...and once he is out and has his freedom - one night with pops and he's back in old habits again...it own't take much.

But barring that - even if he does stay sober/clean - what does a "broken" man really have to give?????

It will be a LONG hard path - and the road will be long before your needs EVER get met.

Right now, what I see here is you being happy cuz he WANTS you, cuz he NEEDS you and he is making all the right apologies - winning your interest - he is doing wht it takes - saying all the right things. Without chemicals in his system and with all the time on his hands, of course he has the right words to say - he has time and clarity to come up with them.

But in the end - it doesn't matter how much he needs you - YOU NEED HIM - and he has not much to give, does he?

August 11, 2007
9:23 pm
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_anonymous
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Rising- Leave it to you to keep me oriented to reality. I am sick of his phone calls. They accomplished nothing. At least I reached that conclusion. I lost my desire to talk to him on the phone.

I am very proud of myself to go through with the sale of the cabin. As of yesterday it was a done deal. Now there are a few penneys to clean up the rest of the mess. It was a major tie that we had.

My divorce will be final in a month.

I was glad to see him. To put a face on everything. His appearance was shocking. He had this charley Manson look to him except blonde, blue eyed and husky. Now he has this beautiful little face with very nice features. I guess he finally got to look in the mirror without morpeine and alcohol and noticed how bad he looked. He looked smaller for some reason. I havent figured it out yet. I agree he will come out of jail with nothing to offer. But we will not have that cabin between us and we will not be married. I feel like I am taking steps to seperate my life from him. I dont buy his stories hook, line and sinker. I do think out of self preservation he is seriously considering not doing drugs and alcohol so he wont wind up getting locked up again. He took a plea bargain and another probation violation he is looking at maybe 20 years. That much he understands. He is highly motivated for that reason. He wants me in his life the same way a man whats his car. But I know he is perfectly incapable of meeting any of my needs. This process of disconecting from him is a process. I did the house thing, and the marriage thing. The emotional thing will come I suppose when I do the no contact thing. I want to wait until i feel 100% sure about it. I am just going about my businees as usual and virtually not telling him a damn thing about what is going on in my life. This is a difficult situation for me as I do have feelings for him. And the fact that he isnt around anymore makes the bad ones seem so distant.

August 14, 2007
9:50 am
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risingfromtheashes
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Destiny -

I don't want this to sound wrong - you do need to do what you need to do - and I think you are doing the right thing.

BUT

In not telling him anything - but continuing to see him - you are setting yourself up for some real trouble.

As I said - I think you are doing right by divorcing and selling the cabin.

BUT

When he does find out - he is going to RAGE - and he is going to blame you for deceiving him - and in some ways, he will have a point - you are being deceptive on some level.

I understand WHY - so don't think I am making you out to be a bad person.

I just think that by playing nice with him - but doing all this without his knowledge - is setting yourself up for some serious backlash.

And maybe perhaps that backlash will be what you need to move on - but I just want you to be careful - cuz once he finds out you deceived him - he is going to come out swinging.

Now, I KNOW you did all you could to make him aware of the divorce - it wasn't your problem he was out of it and refuses to believe it - same with the sale.

But now that he is lucid - you are avoiding the discussion - which is deceptive - cuz this is the time he would hear you and know what you are saying.

It could be said that you were taking advantage of his drunkeness/drug use - by serving him when he wouldn't be aware enough to protest it.

I just want you to be safe - and I think this can go very badly when he finds out what you did....cover your butt in whatever way you can....and be prepared to RUN and hide when he gets out...cuz his rage may return once he hits the real world and discovers that his "posessions" - including you - are gone out of his life.

Right now he thinks he has you - and all his stuff....once it hits home that he doesn't - he may not play nice. These are consequences of his actions he will have to face - but his reactions may be severe - nad you don't want to be around when they happen.

You also mentioned in the other post - is he truly going to be incarcerated for 20 years? not 7 months?

cut your losses - get out...build a new life FAR away - and don't look back.

August 14, 2007
1:53 pm
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He is in jail for at least another four months. I want to wait until the divorce is final to tell him anything. It is so much easier to contest a legal matter that hasnt been finalized than to contest a divorce that has been. I will probably start by writing and telling him that I have an issue with a cabin that he gave me as a gift (that I spent a large sum of money to pay off) then continued to use the place as if he was the only one allowed to be there. Then he had the attitude that that was still his house, his possessions, etc. He must of loved his mortgage free storage area where he could hang out and avoid any responsibilities with me. A place he could do all the drugs and alcohol his little heart desired. I need to go there I need to spend the time to spell it out to him. I am damn glad I sold it. The transmission in my car went out and I have to use the money to fix it. I am glad to use the money to get me what I need which is a car running instead of what he needs a storage area for junk. I think he will be pissed. But he has no right. He dissapeared right when he got paid, 3 days later told me he didnt have a dime, then got arrested. People that dont pay their rent dont deserve to have a place to keep things. I did tell him about the cabing being broked into and someone used a cell phone to email me the pics and he wrote back and told me that he didnt want to hear about it or see the pics cause it would make him mad.

August 14, 2007
2:05 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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Ok - first thing first - I won't argue with the divorce thing - in that you SHOULD get that done - as easily as possible - I'd be scared you would stop the proceedings, so I would vote to keep that going.

The cabin is done - he is going to be angry you did it.

I wouldn't go into defending WHY you did it.

I would simply take him a check for his proceeds - hand it to him and tell him it has been sold and you believe this is a fair share of the amount you sold it for. (you once mentioned giving him something for it).

I would NOT get into why you felt you should, why you feel he should be happy about it, why he should be ok with it, or so forth.

He is not going to be happy about it, but you don't owe him any explanation about it either.

make it simple and get out - he is going to rage - don't stand by and try to reason with him - do what you have to and get out.

and writing a letter won't make any difference either...he is going to be angry and stay angry...he is going to feel like you betrayed him....there won't be any changing his mind...you can't talk reasonable with an unreasonable person.

August 14, 2007
5:14 pm
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rising- My divorce named the real estate as my sole and sperate property backed up with quit claim deeds from him stating that he forever quit claimed interest in my properties and justifiably so because he did not pay for them I did. Like 38 thousand dollars cash out of my pocket not a penney out of his.

The divorce is the only guarantee that he cannot touch me when he gets out of jail.

The cabin was given to me as a gift. I paid 8 thousand cash to the person he got it from to get the gift under my name (some gift) this happened almost a year ago 10/06. Since that time Jail Bird had been keeping all of his crap there, and still bascically lived there (went back and forth everyday, disappeared for days on end, kept his own phone line turned on etc.) FOR FREE. While I paid the taxes on it. Before I got this "gift" he had to pay $400 per month to live there. Since I paid it off he got to stay there for FREE. I never got to use this gift for any reason, he let me know it was his, He got hostile if my kids and I came on the property, accused me of bringing people on the property who took his stuff (I had to pay someone $500 to get his junk off) and then would get violent about it. Told me I couldnt have my mail sent there cause Pot smoking Pops checks his and would be pissed if mine was in there.

I never got to use the property like it was my own. But he got to use that property, my new home, and an apartment that I rented as if it was his. And eat all the food out of the refriderator, utilities, etc. If he did pay me it would be around $400 per month would just pay for his expenses, food, gas, laundry soap, shampoo, electricity, water, eatting out etc. Not for the rent.

My point of view is I need the money that I invested out. The transmission just went out on my car and I now have the money to pay for the repairs about 1,500.00.

When he writes he acts as though the only purpose the property serves is to store his stuff for free. He fails to recognize that 8 thous. of my $ was tied up in it. $ that I need.

So far I am not mentioning it to him. Unless he does. Or I feel comfortable. Yes your right. It needs to be addressed.

August 15, 2007
1:35 pm
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Pom 34
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WOW!

Destiny, I am so proud of you!

You are taking care of YOU!

I have an idea...
If you tell him about all this while he's still in the slammer, maybe he can rage while he's in there -safely away from you. At the very least, you won't have to take any verbal abuse from him and without drugs and alcohol around, he can take a good look at what he's done to his life and your life together. Until some people hit ABSOLUTE BOTTOM they won't do anything to help themselves (not that you may care if he really wants help anyway) but getting stuff over with ASAP could be a good thing for you.

YOU ARE AMAZING!

Keep doing what you're doing!

SO PROUD!

-Pom 34

August 15, 2007
4:01 pm
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POM- I agree I need to tell him all this. But timing is everything. At the end of next month my divorce will be final. So when I tell him there will be no recourse. Cause I will be s00000000000 divorced from him. If you want to deal with a criminal then you have to think like one. It was a nightmare when I was married to him. Legally he had acess to everything I owned didnt matter if he paid for it or not. He physically destroyed everything he put his hands on. There was no way I could have sold that cabin out in broad daylight. It was the one last tie he had to me. I learned to never let this man around anybody or anything that I care about ever again. He thinks he has hit rock bottom, but he has no idea. I paid off his home, bought a brand new home, and paid for everything, I have a good career (RN) no debts. He just sat back did as he damn well pleased while I held the bag with responsibility. Everything was an obligation to me, it was an option to him.

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