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Please help me, Was I in the Wrong?
April 21, 2004
10:31 am
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Anonymous
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Alright, so I need some advice. Mr. Jack (that is what I call him) and I got in a huge fight last night because I had told him, that my ex was in town, well he had asked if it was my ex fiance and I had lied and told him no, this wasn't the one. He found out last night I had lied, and flipped out, ended things again, said that we should not be together we don't get along, and he doesn't trust me. I lied because he freaks out about everything like that, and I just didn't want to deal with him accusing me of going to see my ex and sleeping with him. I know it was wrong for me to lie to him, but am I that bad of a person now?

April 21, 2004
10:35 am
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acj
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Aces---

Are you hoping to build something with this person, Mr. Jack?

If so, then yes, lying was very wrong. Nothing can be built on lying. If a guy lied to you about the exact same situation, any normal woman would flip.

If you're just having fun, then it's none of his business but he should know that you aren't looking to get serious right now.

acj

April 21, 2004
10:37 am
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lindalee
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No, you're not a bad person....you're motives were ok its just that when you lie to him, even if its about something small, it erodes his trust. Sounds like he has some serious insecurity issues anyway if just knowing that your ex was 'in town' would make his suspicious! He's acting like a child and I hate to say it but by lying about it you were too. Good luck!

April 21, 2004
10:47 am
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I guess I just get so tired of being accused by him of sleeping with other people, that I just wanted to not deal with this accusation as well. We have been together for four months and through all the "Im a whore" and a slut and calling my friends that, and telling me that I slept with him too early in the relationship so I must be like that with other people, and even last night I told him I was getting tutored for my big test coming up and his comment, before our fight even, was oh Im sure you will sleep with him and start dating him.

April 21, 2004
10:48 am
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sixfootblonde
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Wow. He talks to you like that? And you want to be with him why? Do you suppose he respects you at all, especially after you put up with that sort of treatment?

Come on. You must know you deserve love from a person who doesn't talk to you like that???

April 21, 2004
10:51 am
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I know that, I guess I just feel bad because I did lie to him, and I was in the wrong, and now he will hold it over me forever, and Ive already known that its time to be done, I just hate the fact that I screwed up, and I feel really bad

April 21, 2004
10:52 am
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eve
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so,

you feel you have to lie, in order to make him behave in a way that you can endure?

If you can't endure him whithout lies - get rid of him

April 21, 2004
10:53 am
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acj
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Hey Aces---

No, you can't change him. You can do your best to reassure him but if he's being disrespectful to you, which to me sounds like he definitely is, are you sure you want to be in a relationship with him?

Now, I'm not an expert in handling a situation like this. If someone I was dating ever called me those names or said something like that to me, he'd be out the door so fast, he'd be sitting there with his head spinning. I just DO NOT tolerate rudeness or disrespect from ANYONE!

But we each have our own thresholds.

I would personally reevaluate whether this relationship had ANY potential whatsoever. This sounds almost like it is a verbally abusive relationship already. It could get worse....

Please think about this.....

acj

April 21, 2004
10:56 am
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acj
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Aces---

Get over the lying part. You did what you felt you had to do at the time and you can't change what was done. Forgive yourself.

You lying isn't the root of this problem so it couldn't have ruined something that was already headed south. I wouldn't make it a habit to lie. But I can understand why you did it.

acj

April 21, 2004
11:00 am
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Anonymous
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Thank you ACJ- that helps, I hate lying and Ive never lied in relationships, Ive always felt that I could tell people whatever, just with him, I get so much crap like Im cheating, Im a whore, whatever, and that I shouldnt have so many friends, I mean Ive said before he doesnt even like my female friends calls me a lesbian if I hang out with them, and a whore if I hang out with guys, I just hate the fact that I did lie, like I screwed it up, and I know that I shouldnt feel like that

April 21, 2004
11:25 am
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Worried_Dad
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Aces & Spades wrote on
21-Apr-04

Threats, accusations and humiliation not only constitute abuse, or in your case domestic or dating violence, but they are also an important part of what is called "brainwashing."

Yes, it was "wrong" for you to lie to him, but I could see how you would feel forced to go there.

The feeling that one has to "walk on eggshells" is a symptom of ongoing abuse.

Diagnosis: The issue in your relationship with Mr. Jack is abuse. Period. If you are going to accomplish anything like an intimate relationship based on love, trust and mutual respect, and reciprocity, then the issue that you must first address (with professional help) is abuse. Period.

"I guess I just get so tired of being accused by him of sleeping with other people, that I just wanted to not deal with this accusation as well. We have been together for four months and through all the "Im a whore" and a slut and calling my friends that, and telling me that I slept with him too early in the relationship so I must be like that with other people, and even last night I told him I was getting tutored for my big test coming up and his comment, before our fight even, was oh Im sure you will sleep with him and start dating him."

April 21, 2004
11:31 am
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Worried Dad, Do you think then that he is really upset that I lied to him, or is more happy that he has something to hold over me. It felt more like that. I guess I dont get how it is brainwashing, can you explain that to me?

April 21, 2004
11:34 am
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acj
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He's happier that he has something to hold over you. You are letting him walk all over you....

Aces---- I know it's hard when you're in the situation, but you're going through verbal abuse!!

acj

April 21, 2004
11:43 am
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How is it brainwashing though?

April 21, 2004
11:46 am
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Zinnie
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Aces,

WHY?

April 21, 2004
11:46 am
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Worried Dad---

You're going to have to cover this one. I can't describe it. I just remember Elizabeth Smart. She wanted her captor's approval and would do anything to have it. He isolated her from her family so that her survival depended on making him happy. I don't know how to describe this, though....

acj

April 21, 2004
12:11 pm
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WHY, Zinnie, because I don't understand why I feel like Im always in the wrong, Im always screwing up, Im feel like Im losing my mind, and I don't know how to deal with it anymore, I truly don't. I know lying to him was wrong, but you know what Ive gone through with him, but now I'm the one that feels like I totally ruined something that we didnt even have, Im so confused as to why Im such a bad person in his eyes. I don't understand what I've done so wrong to him? I mean I know I lied but its not like I cheated on him and lied about it.

April 21, 2004
12:21 pm
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guyman
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Aces & Spades...I was and probably still am exactly like your boyfriend. And it all stems from insecurity and control. Yes lying was probably wrong, but if you would have told him the truth i guarentee he would have reacted the same way. I cannot even tell you how many times i have been in your boyfriends shoes, but I am learning that it is all insecurity and very low-self esteem. If your intentions were just to hang out with your ex and just catch up and talk then you shouldn;t feel like a bad person. if you truly care about this guy then you need to sit him down and find out what went wrong in his past that makes him so jealous and possesive. I bet you there is something he's playing the defense about. Ask if a girl broke his heart before, if he was cheated on...i bet you will be surprised. He is using a major defense mechanism to protect himself from being crushed again.

April 21, 2004
12:28 pm
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wishes
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Okay - so maybe you shouldn't have lied, but I can see why you felt the need. I remember feeling the same. A little white lie to save a big fat fight. Oh and god forbid if they catch you in it. Then it never ends. It's all your fault, all the time. No. No. No. And no. And they throw it in your face at any convenient moment. My ex used to always say that I was sleeping with so and so or was a lesbian if I hung out with a girl for more than 15 minutes. He didn't want me to have friends, didn't want me around my family. He isolated me and then told me how horrible I was. Don't buy into it like I did.

Maybe that's what everyone means by brainwashing???

April 21, 2004
12:30 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Aces wote:"I don't understand why I feel like Im always in the wrong, Im always screwing up, Im feel like Im losing my mind, and I don't know how to deal with it anymore, I truly don't."

The reason you feel that way is that you have been brainwashed. The essence of abuse is the substitution of the beliefs, perceptions, motives and self-interest with that of the abuser.

Brainwashing is a pattern of abusive behavior that causes its victims to assume a delusional reality. In your case, the delusion is that you are not a victim of abuse. The delusion you are under is that you are always in the wrong, always screwing up, that you are losing your mind.

Well, actually, you are losing your mind. And your mental illness can be summarized like this: You believe that you have issues other than abuse to work with this man.

April 21, 2004
12:41 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Try to find an article entitled "Brainwashing and Battering Fatigue" It used to be on the web.

Brainwashing has five common characteristics: Isolation, unpredictable attacks, accusation, humiliation and threats.

It's really, really bad. And look what it has done to you Aces.

Look, women have been badly oppressed for about ten thousand years now. Finally, we have something like human rights for women in America. Finally, we have a feminist revolution and a sexual revolution. Finally, civilized people understand that women do not have to apologize for their sexuality.

What gives a man to call a woman a "slut" as a perjorative? Even if she is one doesn't give anyone the right to bash her for it. "Slut Bashing" is also a form of sexual abuse.

April 21, 2004
12:54 pm
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There's so much here worth commenting on, but I just can't believe that a guy would honestly believe his girl was a lesbian because she had some female friends. Well, obviously, like you are saying, it's "name calling" as if such juvenile behavior is going to drive a wedge between a woman and some dear friends. Please don't let this happen. For whatever reason.

One sure sign of an abusive relationship is when a guy does not allow you any time with your friends. Each person in a couple should have some time with other friends. Insecure and controlling individuals feel threatened by their lover's friends (and notice I did not say men, because we ladies do it sometimes too). Loving and healthy individuals are happy that others share the appreciation of the company of their loved one, not to mention that their lover has a full life.

God, I miss having a collection of girlfriends. It wasn't my boyfriend that chased them away, but I certainly do not let my relationship stand in the way of the few hours a week of socialization that I have left.

Studies have actually shown that women who spend time socializing with other women are less depressed than women who don't. It is actually a physical phenomenon somewhat parallel to "male bonding." Men seem to value the time they spend with their friends and make it a priority. Not that it should eclipse all else, but the guys have the right idea when they stand firm about "the night out with the boys" to go bowling or to concerts or whatever it is they do. Women would do well to become a little more "selfish."

I feel for you Aces, but I've also been the jealous lover. Being on both sides gives you enough life experience to mellow out a little- but I guess when it comes to change, there's other areas I haven't even scratched the surface on.

Aces, you said "ended things again," which sounds like you are on and off again like my boyfriend and myself. Give him time to cool down. It may not be "the end." Do you know if you want it to be?
-ella

April 21, 2004
12:57 pm
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GUYMAN- The sad thing is that I never even saw my ex, I told him I wouldnt see him, I was just stupid and lied and said it wasn't the one I was engaged to a long time ago because I knew he would get even more upset about that. I know I have messed up, and I just hate that when I call him on lies, its not a big deal and I have to deal with it, but when he calls me on them, I've ruined everything he can't trust me, we can't work out. Were you like that, did you break up because you were trying to control them, and then get back together, and break up and get back together. I hate this

Worried Dad -

I love talking with you, you always make me feel better to some extent in that Im not the freak here. I may be a freak in my own ways, but I do at times feel like I can't handle things. I hate giving him this amunition to use against me as well. Because the sad truth is that we all know he will hold this against me as long as he feels the need to.

Wishes-

Are you still with this person, and if not tell me truly how you got out.

April 21, 2004
1:02 pm
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Ella- There are times when I get the strenght to say Im fine I dont need this, and that is when he always comes calling or something that makes me rethink, and I have seemed to lack any will power to resist

April 21, 2004
1:23 pm
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wishes
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No, I'm not with him anymore. He was my first husband. How did I get out? Well, I didn't do it the right way - that's for sure. And I don't recommend it. What it boils down to is this: to afraid to be alone, so immediatley got into another marriage. From the frying pan and into the fryer.....

I have so many regrets in my life. I hope you won't have as many....find out who YOU are. Because, my dear, YOU are important!

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