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Playing with My Fire - Matteo
May 13, 2006
6:49 pm
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Matteo
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I spoke to G. today. I called him today and I spoke to him shortly. Today is the 3rd anniversary of his surgery when his cancer tumor was removed, and I wished him many long years in an excellent health. After 3 months break I started e-mailing him from time to time in mid. Jan. with no response from him, which is fine. But when I started dating and there was a real possibility of intimacy, I started missing him again more than I did in many months. I wanted to hear his voice, but at the same time I was hoping that I will just be able to leave a message, wishing him well.

I called once and there was a feature saying that “this customer is not available” and that freaked me because I thought that he blocked my phone #. That showed me how not over him I am. So then of course I really had to call again and he picked up the phone. He asked who is it and I said my name, and he said: Ah, Matteo” with the intonation like: Ah, it’s you again” and then with much nicer tone said that I didn’t pick the best time, because he is driving and I can all him in the evening or tomorrow if I want to. I said his favorite saying: “we will see” and said good-bye. So the King is willing to eventually take another dose of NS.

I don’t want to call him, but I hope that he is not as needy at this point to call me back for it, because then the hellish dance would start all over again for me. I am not going crazy or anything, since I know that the channels of communications are open, I don’t want him to call me for my sake, and I hope he won’t. At the same time I am happy that he is OK, healthy and running, as always, and that he still exists. This first phone call with no answer made me think that if he would totally disappear from the radar, I possibly could go through another regression and depression, because now, although he is not with me, he is still close and hiding, while disappearing into a fog would be possibly very, very different.

Then again I feel a little guilt that I really broke no contact, because I don’t count the e-mails since he is not responding. So please, go ahead, and tell me how crazy I am to be crazy over this man who cannot care less about me than about his old shoe. Why what I know and see and understand, and despite of it, doesn’t affect my feelings for him? Why am I so scared to get hurt by someone else and at the same time I walk with my eyes open wide into my own pain and devastation, like a moth into the flame? Why can I get over anybody else so easily, almost dispose of them, but not over him? Why can’t I stop loving him, while when I think about possible consequences and complications if we actually were together, I am almost grateful that we are not? Why am I so happy now? How many layers buried deep in my personality and my past do I have to exhume to understand that??

May 13, 2006
7:34 pm
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Oh wow Matteo,

Feeling kinda stuck?

What I am learning is that I choose men who fulfill my needs for abandonment. Almost .... because they don't want me I want them more. In counselling I learned that this is my way of repeating my childhood wound, of feeling rejected. It stirs up, if only I tried harder, if I only I was more beautiful, if only .... well you get my drift.

Gotta admit that I back away from men who really want to be with me, there is no excitement or challenge I guess.

And last of all I am slowly realizing that I need to care as much for myself as I do for them.

Moving on is hard, but part of the process. The next time I am in relationship with a lover I will say what I am feeling and thinking and not abandon myself in order to be with someone.

For sure no contact is the way to
go. What is the saying ... "If you set someone free and they come back to you then it is meant to be"

I need to set myself free from old patterns in order to move to the next step. And for me hearing his beautiful voice is not the way for me anymore. I know I would never treat anyone the way he treats me, so I can't and won't allow it anymore. I have a plan, a healthy diversion for when I want to phone him or email him. It seems to work and distracts me from doing something that I probably will regret.

Thanks for being there

May 13, 2006
8:01 pm
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Matteo
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Littlespirit,

Thank you for understanding. Yes, repeating the desire to be deserving of love...But with him even his comeback is not a good sign, he comes and goes as he pleases. He needs to be in a relationship and I am not a good candidate for him for some reasons, so he goes back to his mate whenever I make him feel better. And I know it all. I just hope that he will not call me, when he says "you can call me", usually means that he is doing not badly, I hope I didn't miscalculate and this is still the case, so my sanity is safe. Oh, good grief.

May 14, 2006
12:28 am
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Lol! “Feeling kinda stuck” is a major understatement! I feel Royally stuck and screwed up!

May 14, 2006
7:44 am
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Please don't feel guilty you called him. It was simply a relapse and maybe that's why you are feeling this way just now. Endings are rarely easy are they. I am just out of a relationship that in many ways was my best ever but his behaviour was finally too much for me (relapsing into alcohol). Do something good for you, a healthy distraction, like a long walk or a good book.

I find it harder to think about myself rather than someone else, but I am learning. Be good to yourself.

May 14, 2006
8:09 am
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garfield9547
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Matteo

Have you ever read the article
"The recovery process of the partner of the N?"

Its very long - From Sams site.'
Look at what they say of ECHO made so much sense
Here is a bit on the article
TWO NOTES

"The Narcissism Book of Quotes" was assembled by femfree, a member of the
Suite101 Narcissistic Personality Disorder community

The concept of the Inverted Narcissist was first proposed by Alice Ratzlaff.

---- Original Message -----

Dear Dr. Sam Vaknin,

Please find enclosed a paper which I wrote for a conference about Emotional
and Psychological Abuse held in October 2002 in St. Julians, Malta. You may
circulate it freely as long as my particulars are included.

I wish to thank you for providing me with much of the material which helped
me make sense of my experience with clients in this situation.

I hope we can together be of help.

Mary Ann Borg Cunen , M.A. Counselling Psychology (Baltimore, U.S.A.)

***********************************************************

Echo No Longer; The Recovery Process of the Partner of the Person Suffering
from a Narcissistically Impaired Personality.

Mary Ann Borg Cunen, M.A. Counselling Psychology (Baltimore, U.S.A.)

October 2002

In the past few years I have come across an increasing number of persons
suffering from NPD and also an increasing number of individuals whose
partners seem to be narcissistically disordered. Through my practice I have
met clients at the various stages of this process and each stage has its
characteristics as regards both the state of the relationship, and the
emotional state of the partner. I have also followed the correspondence of
an international Internet based support group called "narcissisticabuse"
coordinated by S. Vaknin. Many of the comments I will be using to illustrate
my presentation are taken from there, and from the 'Book of Quotes'
collected by the same author. I will be using the masculine pronoun, as most
Ns are male.

Narcissism is usually described by a list of behaviours most of which
involve the individual himself. Here I will focus more of the way narcissism
interferes with relationships. I believe that there is no better way to
diagnosis a narcissist than to look at his relationships and at how his
Narcissistic Abuse Study List ex partners have been effected by him.

In describing the victims of narcissists Patrick Hurst's has suggested the
diagnosis of EPD, Echo Dependent Personality to describe type of person who
is so good at reflecting and affirming another but is lacking in a solid
sense of self. "Echo has been captivated by the voice of another of which
she is a mere reflection. Echo and Narcissus fit together perfectly; neither
is able to initiate and sustain dialogue".

A characteristic predisposing background of EPD involves individuals being
parented by caretakers who are themselves self-absorbed, narcissistic, or
overly punitive. In the words of Joanna Ashmun : "Narcissists are so much
trouble that only people with prior training (i.e. who were raised by
narcissists) get seriously involved with them." In this kind of environment
the child learns that asserting one's 'true self' will be met with (often
serial) rejection, to which the child responds by substituting 'compliant'
behaviour in place of true selfhood. Such compliant behaviour can then be
witnessed as a stable feature throughout the child's growing-up years, with
other school children, and within the family. These may feel "at home" who
takes control, belittles and is emotionally cut off. (Hurst, 1998).

Types of "Echo"

In the introduction to commentaries about the story from Greek mythology we
find the appropriate warning: "It is important to note that Narcissus had
many lovers, both men and women, so this treatment of Echo is not meant to
be a description of every person who has had a relationship with a
narcissist. Echo can be seen as just one of a myriad of different
personalities who found herself caught within the spell of Narcissus."

Some persons may find themselves drawn to one N after another, perhaps
unable to learn from the experience, or alternatively needing to work
something out intrapersonally through being with an N. Having been parented
by an N. often predisposes an individual to seek this dynamic again with a
partner.

S. Vaknin and other theorists assert that many partners are 'inverted Ns'.
people who live out their Narcissism through their chosen N. A famous,
highly visible N or one with undeniable potential may gather a following of
inspiring minor Ns.

A complicated combination, but one often found, is that of an N. in
relationship with person suffering from borderline personality disorder.

(See J. Lachkar's book entitled "the Narcissistic/Borderline Couple; A
Psychoanalytic Perspective on Martial Therapy). With the Ns need for
detachment and distance and the BPD 's need not to feel abandoned this
relationship causes major stress and conflict.

I have also met many altruistic, empathic rescuers in this situation. While
some of these can be seen as suffering from EPD others are well defined
individuals; I believe these get in touch intuitively with N need for love
and self-acceptance, and think they can heal this person if they only love
them enough. The implication of this, of course, is that if he does not
improve it is their fault. So they try even harder.

The need for someone to idealize, admire, look to for guidance is perhaps an
especially. dangerous one. When these persons are let down by their Ns they
may sink into a loss of hope wider than pain of the abusive relationship
itself.

However I wish to emphasize very strongly that being in relationship with an
N changes a person (momentarily) and it is easy to become dependent,
insecure and clinging. I recommend that counselors and psychotherapists
withhold diagnosis of a person in this situation unless they knew her before
or until they have seen the "freed" version of the individual. The contrast
is sometimes striking. I have seen spirited, assertive, self-assured young
women fall under this spell.

"I became this dependent, fearful, insecure person about one year into my
relationship with my N. I did not trust my thoughts, my feelings, and my
intuition. I shut off all of these so I could fit in with my N. and become
what he wanted of me. Just a year before I had been this confident,
self-directed, independent woman. None of my friends would ever have
described me as dependent."

I will now describe the seven phases I have observed whilst working with
this type of client and reading the support group contributions.

Phase 1: Flying to the stars

The attraction to the N. is easy to understand. They are often competent,
energetic, persons in positions of responsibility. They put themselves
across as knowledgeable, interesting, and well connected. The N may be
intimidating, mesmerizing, and even larger then life. Or they may be haughty
but quiet. But have many skills which are minor manifestations of their
disorder: An ability to see things in a new way, a freedom of thought;
creativity even, a way of looking at things from a distance.seeing the whole
picture instead of getting lost in the details, or in emotions. Their need
for control has often led them into positions of leadership. This same need
for control makes them question the usual status quo and many are rebels or
freethinkers. But all secretly seek acclaim and recognition.

These are some of the comments made about the relationship with the N. in
the initial stage:

"When I met my N I thought I had just met the most wonderful person ever
born! Nice, kind, talented, intelligent, even caring and concerned.

"In the beginning he was treating me like a Queen. He acts like I am 'the
one', the 'kindred friend' that he's never had before."

" At first the relationship with the N was too good to be true".

At this stage it all looks like a fairy tale come true. Both the N. and the
partner are idealizing the other, as is the case in most new relationships.

They have made each other gods.the answer to all their searching for the
perfect mate.

"My heart was his and I was overwhelmed by loving feelings. He seemed the
same expressing his emotions and feelings and making me feel I belong ever
so much."

Using other people as her "blood bank" or as Sam Vaknin refers to as
"narcissistic supply" (N.S.) requires that the narcissist be a human
emotional radar. He must be psychologically astute and shrewd so that he can
"size up" everyone he encounters for his or her potential to be his
'blood-donor'; the one who provides adoration and admiration in vast,
unconditional amounts. Often this involves making the partner feel that she
has unusual qualities that make her irresistible to the N; e.g. that they
are soul mates, uniquely able to understand and support him. This feeds on
the narcissism of the partner as she wishes to be like the esteemed loved
one.

Cynically using other people also requires that the narcissist be lacking in
empathy. A test suggested by Maria Hsia Chang is to withhold approval and
compliments from the N. She predicts that "You will discover that,
overnight, the narcissist has lost her/his kindness and even simple
civility. Do not be fooled by her simulations at empathy."

More than to lure people into his web, the narcissist's mask also conceals
the false self from scrutiny. Concealment requires secrecy, evasion,
dishonesty, and lying. The main method of concealment used at this stage is
"not saying the whole truth" and evasion of questions about his past.

From my experience this stage will last as long as the uncritical admiration
on the part of the partner continues. However others (e.g. J. A. Ashmun,
1998) have commented that to bring this stage to an end, it is enough for
the victim to become devoted to the N and to declare her love. This will
make the N. feel he can now drop energy draining pretences." And if you
object to being treated like an appliance then they will say that obviously
you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with
you."

Two years after a partner wrote of her experience:

"It is clear to me [now] how I had been the one to offer unconditionally all
that he needed to fuel his false self!!

Phase 2

Becoming a Satellite

The next stage is a bewildering one. The N seems to absorb their partner
into their intrapsychic world. Some partners find themselves practically
mesmerized by the N. The Ns are mirror hungry and they cause the other to be
their idealizing mirror. The focus on himself that the N. forces is very
seductive. She fades into the background. She is only there to help the N.
to express himself, to admire him, and to support him.

One of the features of this world is indifference to social norms.

Being grandiose and superior, the narcissist refuses to subscribe to
society's moral rules and ethical standards. Instead, morality is
subjective: "Nobody can judge me." ; another characteristic of modern
western society.

"They think they are untouchable, inhabitants of a special world, one
parallel to ours but never touching. Outlandish behaviour is the N's
hallmark. They can draw other unsuspecting, and usually respectable, people
into their criminal or pseudo-criminal activities."

The partner of Ns. find themselves also adapting their lifestyle to the
wishes of the N. Many loose contact with friends. Friends may see through
the N. more clearly from a distance and warn the partner.to no avail).

Lost in a cloud

The partner is in fact losing contact with herself. But she does not realize
this yet. In the words of an ex-victim:

"The asymmetry is visible only when you're out though ... my experience
whilst in the 'fog' was of something weird but boundary-less, maybe even a
bit mystical. What an illusion! The illusion of mutuality, I call it!!"

My guess is that there are some types of personality that do not allow this
to happen and they move away from the relationship at this stage.with only a
sense of having met a weird guy, but others remain seduced, trapped in the
web.

The next point is made by a support group member reply to another:

"What you are saying here is SO important -- how your energy became enmeshed
with his until you could not tell whose feelings you were feeling, his or
yours. I used to work on this same thing every single day, but it made me
feel like I was insane. After all, do "normal" people not know whose
feelings they're feeling?? Once or twice, I tried to explain it to my sister
or to a friend, but when you say it out loud, they look at you like they
haven't a clue what you're talking about and you have just maybe gone off
the deep end! I don't think I've ever gotten enmeshed like this before in
any other relationship, to the point where I didn't know where I ended and
the other person began, have you? I think you're right. A lot of the misery
and unhappiness and guilt I felt were the N's projections onto me. What
amazes me is how totally open and receptive I was to that. I was like a
sponge. I just sucked it right up and thought it was ME. Or was it me?"

The blurring of personal boundaries that happens to a certain extent in all
relationships happens here in a lop-sided manner with partner of the N.
identifying too fully with the Ns world.

"Ns install a mental filter in our heads a little bit at a time. Before we
know it, everything we do, say, or think, goes through this filter. 'Will he
get upset if I do/say/think this? Will he approve/disapprove? Will he feel
hurt by this?' Until we can uninstall the N-filter, our actions are
controlled by N to some degree."

"It was the losing of myself that caused me the most anguish. I could feel
it, like a brain washing, like a vampire, and he claimed he didn't know
anything was wrong, didn't know what I meant when I said I was sad all the
time and couldn't trust a word he said."

Some partners of Ns. sense the hidden vulnerability of the N. and wish to
heal the wound that they intuit. This again is very seductive for some and
is one of the main reasons for the difficulty in getting free from the
relationship.

"I know "now" helping them the best I can is a big part of my life mission.
They are like autistic children. They stare at you blankly, don't appear to
understand emotions, have conversations that make no sense, and are
non-relational."

"The point is, I was getting sick and mad, was losing weight and
concentration at work. I'm the typical co-dependent, I know. and I really
thought the power of love would help."

One manifestation of this inability to accept themselves is an inability to
talk openly about themselves. As S.Vaknin observed one can discuss all the
aspects of the intimate life of a narcissist, "providing the discourse is
not 'emotionally tinted'. If asked to relate directly to his emotions, he
will, probably, intellectualize, rationalize, speak about himself in the
third person and in a detached "scientific" tone or write a short story with
a fictitious character in it, suspiciously autobiographical." It is
notoriously difficult to get the N to talk about his painful past
experiences, as long as the N does not sense that if he does it will
increase his N.S. This can be understood by a sensitive, responsive partner
as an invitation to coax the N. to befriend himself more and be more "in
touch" with himself. She may see herself as uniquely capable of this. Thus
the web is wrapped ever more tightly.

The combination of the previous two points leads to the next one: made by a
wise support group member:

"I also think a good portion of your feeling wounded might possibly really
belong to him, meaning you are feeling his woundedness, not to say that
"you" aren't wounded too, For myself, what I have experienced is a sense of
dooming that my ex dumped on me, in a sense I was feeling his longing and
neediness more then my own for a long time. I went through a time where I
was so confused about what I was feeling period, his stuff or mine. It's
taken time and learning to calm down with in myself. I took on his
problems."

This phenomenon is what we sometimes refer to as projective identification.

" One partner wants to get rid of or destroy in the other, what the one
partner does not like in the self and sees in the other" Lochkar, 1991) e.g.
dependency needs. The N does not know himself, and knows his weaknesses even
less. Instead of the insecurities of normal human beings, the narcissist
exhibits an impassive and uncritical acceptance of himself. And projects
much of his real self onto his partner. The partner is receptive.for
whatever reason.

"It's like the N's are vampires, feeding off our souls. They cannot
acknowledge that they are wrong just as a vampire cannot face the sunlight.
It would destroy them."

"One thing I do have to remind myself of all the time is this. They are
always looking for who they are in someone else."

Phase 3: Confusion Reigns;

Riding the Roller Coaster

Communication

From my experience many of the victims of Ns are decent, trusting, caring
individuals.who are perhaps a little naive about the worse sides of human
nature. They are in for a shock when they try talking thing over openly with
an N:

From the support group:

"I believed that if truthful words are spoken, written, shared, they will be
heard, and they will be answered. Not with a narcissist. You get
sucker-punched in trying to explain something. There is no response to what
is said. Words are deflected, twisted, questions answered with questions,
non sequitors abound."

"Some Ns like to be MYSTERIOUS because it keeps them in control while you're
dancing to FIGURE them out."

Trying to engage a narcissist in serious dialogue is a disconcerting
experience because nothing he says makes sense. The N. will often talk in
cryptic and confusing messages in order to remain vague and ambiguous. The
latest: e.g. of this I heard is of a N. telling his latest victim who has
just confessed her love for him "I cannot be in love but I love" and he
would not explain further. "The inability or unwillingness to be
introspective, in turn, results in cognitive dissonance, cognitive gaps, and
non sequiturs." (S. Vaknin).

Sudden shifts between sadism and altruism, abuse and 'love', ignoring and
caring, abandoning and clinging, viciousness and remorse, the harsh and the
tender produce in people around the narcissist emotional insecurity, an
eroded sense of self worth, fear, stress, and anxiety , the feeling of
'walking on eggshells' (S.Vaknin).

A male support group member replies to another:

"That's exactly how it was! Vagueness, lack of commitment, rejection, hope,
abandonment --- a crazy, uncertain roller coaster ride. I never knew where I
stood, but when I was so rude as to ASK, I got only disgust and anger and
blame. I was supposed to be some kind of perfect smiling plastic person who
had no needs and made no demands. It wore me down so much. I kept trying,
though --- trying to be perfect and sweet and uncomplaining, even when hurt
and dumped and blamed. Isn't it right and normal and even healthy of me to
want to shake her and scream at her and demand that she SEE what she has put
me through."

On the other hand:

"When I don't go back and "oblige" everything is O.K."

"I went back to him a dozen times, each time somehow thinking it was
different, that maybe now that we had addressed all the issues and brought
everything into the open, and he admitted he had treated me badly. it would
change. And it WOULD go back to (almost) how it had been, but each time that
honeymoon period would last a shorter and shorter amount of time. It
absolutely wrecked me - my self esteem has never been lower than during my
years with him."

Control

The relationship is changing. The leopard is starting to show his spots.

Nothing is equal in the relationship. He expects the partner to submit. It
becomes slowly obvious that he cannot conceive of a "we". He gets very
annoyed , even rageful at a lot of things the partner does or thinks. This
he would vigorously deny if asked...to the great confusion of the partner. A
very controlling aspect is starting to emerge, but again the N. is unaware
of it and talks of himself in a way that portrays a very different person.

"It wasn't until a few months had passed that I began to feel something wasn
't right and I was confused. I felt like I was on the verge of a nervous
breakdown but couldn't put my finger on the problem (because I thought it
was me) until I came here'.

"My life depends on how he is feeling, if he is in a good or bad mood. I am
in constant fear."

"Judgmental behaviour began to appear all too soon though and with hindsight
it should have been clear that my partner was not ready to accept views that
were different from his own even on minor matters. A clear controlling
aspect began to emerge".

"If it makes him feel better about himself to belittle you, he will do that,
but the ultimate goal isn't to make you feel bad, the goal is perpetuate the
myth of his own perfection and simultaneously control you. If by hurting you
it gets you in check, makes you take on his failings as your own, and make
you work twice as hard for his approval, it's a bonus for him. If he doesn't
need to employ cruelty in order to accomplish either of the above goals, he
won't. It's that simple."

Isolation

The N often picks victims who have to keep the relationship secret because,
for example, it is an extra-martial relationship. This provides them with a
double advantage. They will not have to commit.thus they will avoid being
controlled in that way, and secondly they will have more power in the
relationship. A person having an extra-marital relationship or a
relationship with someone who is not available e.g. a catholic priest, is
very vulnerable. She cannot speak out about the abuse she is experiencing.

She cannot get advice and an outside perspective on the relationship from
her friends and family. She has to look happy and "normal all the time at
home causing her great psychological stress. And her isolation means only
the Ns. Influence will prevail.

"N's count on our shame to keep their secrets. They know that exposing them
means exposing our own failings. That's what makes them so powerful. They
manipulate us into these situations then sit back and watch us squirm
between protecting ourselves or blowing the whistle."

Issues of Fidelity

One thing that often jolts the P into facing the situation is the discovery
of repeated infidelity.

"He would tell women he loved them all at the same time, keeping each woman
separate from the others."

"He will have a new female N supplier ASAP and you can bet he'll be parading
her in front of you too."

Narcissist's sexual infidelity is notorious. Flirting and using their sexual
attractiveness is a wonderful way of getting what they need most.admiration
and devotion. And a secondary gain will be putting the present partner in
her place.

It is not because they value sex that much. In fact many can go without sex
for months or even years without problems. They also can tease and frustrate
their partners with this aspect of a relationship. Often they withhold
sexually and relationally as a way of asserting their power and inflict
pain.

Hated and Envy

Theorists say that Ns harbor a hated for women which is only thinly veiled.

They also become envious and destructive of anything good that another has.

So if their partner is feeling secure and satisfied he will feel compelled
to change that. His affairs may be secret and he will deny their existence
very convincingly.but he'll make sure you find out about them.

"Yes I told him exactly what I think of him, his lies, his deceit, his lack
of emotions, he is just an image not a real person . and I realize that not
only did this not bother him, it actually made him feel great! He knows that
he has a dramatic impact on my feelings and since he won't let me love him
anymore, now he makes me hate him. This must really make him feel like he's
one damn special and unforgettable person!"

N. prefer to be notorious then to be ignored and hated..If they have many
enemies, if they are feared and avoided, they take a preserve pleasure in
this. Besides they can tell themselves that no one can understand them as no
one can reach their level, thus taking pride in being different and
unpopular.

"Only the most discerning individuals can know my worth and value."

By this time the partner of the N. has noticed that something is amiss in
the relationship! But nothing is clear.

Phase 4: Hitting the dust-the change in the narcissist is too obvious to
take all the blame for

If she expresses this as a complaint, a request for something different or
especially as a criticism she is in for trouble. This will probably set off
the Ns's worst self. He will suddenly feel exposed.seen for who he really
feels he is deep with in himself. It may provoke the deflation of the
grandiosity.or set off efforts at warding off the threat of a more accurate
view of the self. Whichever way it goes he will devalue the partner and
start treating her like an enemy.

"He was mad at "me" for wanting something I had every right to want from him
considering the time factor of our relationship and the closeness he led me
onto. I was the bad person because I was scared to death about my future
since he wasn't giving me anything to really hang onto that I could trust.
And he hated me for laying the rope down on the line about commitment, no
matter how many times I pleaded and tried to explain to him that I needed to
have a future too."

"The most you can do is just accept that they blame you for things. It's one
of the easiest things N's do, "blame". You're going to have to know that you
are NOT to blame!"

The N. when he "changes" does so often suddenly and dramatically. In the
words of a client: ".

"From being totally in love with me one day this person could just drop me
the next, belittle me and put all blame on me over one episode where I
disagreed with a decision (which involved both of us), he took on his own
accord."

"I suddenly realized that I wasn't as stupid as I had grown to believe."

From the point of view of the N. his sense of pride or integrity has been
wounded. This N. rage is a response to personal injury, a statement like
"Here I've tried so hard and you make me look like a fool! You never
appreciate all the things that I have done for you." At this moment they are
expelled from their womb of self love and plunged into a free fall of
destructive and uncontrollable impulses, awash in long repressed insecurity.

They quickly recover however, defenses coming to the rescue, helped along by
their next N.S.

Narcissists are likely to treat people inconsistently because they are
susceptible to "splitting", or projecting everything good on some people and
everything bad on others. In other words, narcissists "divide the world into
famous, rich, worthy and great people on the one hand, and the despicable,
worthless 'mediocrity' on the other. They quickly pass a person from the
"in" category to the " out" one, this especially in intimate relationships.

The false self must be impervious, which requires the narcissist to resist
self-examination and introspection. Doing so would open the narcissist to
reality-based assessment--a dangerous undertaking because the false self is,
by definition, unreal. As a consequence, instead of the insecurities of
normal human beings, the narcissist exhibits an impassive and uncritical
acceptance of himself.

The maintenance and protection of the false self also requires constant
vigilance against attack. This is why the narcissist overreacts with rage
and humiliation to any perceived criticism, no matter how minor or justified

(S. Vaknin)

Taking the blame

"And finding fault constantly, excessively and yes, making me out to be the
one with the unforgivable faults and the one who isn't normal. All my
efforts to do things properly were in vain."

This feeling that as a partner we have done something unforgivable is very
common. Many partners of Ns. at this stage would do anything to return to
how they were. They will take the blame for anything and everything.if only
the N would love them as he did in the beginning. There is no way out of the
narcissistic catch: the narcissist despises, in equal measures, the
submissive and the independent, the strong (who constitute a threat) and the
weak (who are, by definition, despicable). No one will measure up to his
standards .and if they do they would threaten him. Ns seem to prefer those
inferior to him.to make his self-aggrandizement easier, but then he despises
her as she puts him in a bad light."this is the only partner that you can
attract," says an unconscious nagging doubt. If she is his equal he will try
and destroy her even faster, to show his superiority.

"As I got to know him, the uneasiness shifted to a feeling of walking on
eggshells since I never knew what action or word I might do would trip over
one of his innumerable emotional landmines."

Trust betrayed

"I can recall so vividly his change, like a blade cutting sharply through
me, like meeting another self!!!"

It often comes as a shock, a trauma the realization that the one the partner
loved so much can be so feelingless, so cruel, so detached. It may become
obvious that he does not consider the partner at all when important
decision-making is concerned. And he does not seem to understand why that
bothers her. He may suddenly disappear from her life.one of the most
powerfully painful experience ever. It is a though he has exclaims as in the
myth; ""Hands Off!" Embrace me not! May I die before I give you power o'er
me!"

"And then I feel there is a time of confusion, maybe for me that was the
beginning of breaking the illusory shell, and then the space of
non-understanding, of not being able to make it."

"I suddenly realized that I wasn't as stupid as I had grown to believe."

PTSD

The realization that the relationship is over because the N has devalued the
partner is often experienced as a trauma. Partners often remark that this
final realization came suddenly and as a consequence the partner of the N
has many symptoms of PTSD including sleepless nights, flash backs, startle
reflexes, and uncontrollable crying fits. These symptoms may last for
months.

"The brutal change in him was all the more shocking because of what he had
appeared to be. The devaluation was indescribable, unnerving, frightening.

His N rages used to burst forth several times a day. I found I was married
to a total stranger, a Jekyll and Hyde who sometimes looked at me as if he
didn't even know me. Exhausting is an understatement - it was like clinging
to the edge of a cliff 24 hours a day."

Difficulty in explaining what happened

One painful fact is that when the experience is shared with friends or
sometimes-even counsellors, it is difficult to communicate what has
happened. The confusion that the P experiences make it difficult to recount
things clearly. The P. is still emotionally connected to the N, thus
protecting him and accusing him alternatively. Many Ps will not name their
Ns. to counsellors or other helpers, thus protecting their identity. The
hook, which the N has implanted in their heart, is hard to remove.

Also the break up is more painful then an ordinary one. Friends may find
this difficult to understand. There is something devastating about the
aftermaths of a relationship with an N.

Phase 5: Breaking the Spell: Run Trying Not to Look Back

Feeling the power he still has over her some Ns. will keep on pursuing their
partner after she has left him, as illustrated below. He may feel she still
has a soft spot for him and that she will take him back. He exploits this,
maybe to exercise his power. Maybe he also misses the early moments of
"Flying to the Stars" and hopes his ex will again provide that magic mirror.

or the reasons may be more utilitarian e.g. a place to stay. Whatever the
reason the effect is an increased confusion and ambivalence in the ex
partner. The personal boundaries of the partner were often not strong before
the relationship started...and are weaker still after some years of
self-confidence erosion.

"I stayed far away from him. But he would not leave me alone. I was
extremely violated by this person and it took 7 years of intensive therapy
to overcome the injuries I suffered because of him."

"It's a very good thing to be scared sometimes, especially when tempted to
N-dip. It's not only our emotional well being at stake here. It can be our
physical (health included) safety as well."

"My self esteem has never been lower than during my years with him".

The greatest temptation at this stage is to give him another chance. I have
met partners of N who are cyclically hoping that he will see the light and
change his ways. The power of their early experience with the N, when he was
warm, perceptive, caring and protective prove to be a powerful hook; one
that is very difficult to remove from one's heart.

"He was so convincing in his gentle, opened sensitive "mode". I still can't
quite believe that that is not the real him, not the devil I have met in the
later years. He seemed so sincere, so genuine.like a hurt but hopeful pure
being. I cannot give up hope.."

When 'Trying' is not successful

Others, for whatever reason, choose not to leave the relationship but
continue to struggle within it. I received this feedback from a close friend
in this situation when I was drafting this paper:

"Struggling to break the spell" This has certainly been my experience:
struggling to not only see the reality of my husband (which I do only too
well) but also, I guess, I have struggled to make him see himself as I see
him- which is not something that has helped the relationship of course!"

A question which keeps on coming up both in the support group and from my
clients is: "If I tell him that he has a disorder will he accept it, will he
change, go to therapy, work to change the way he relates to me". The sad
answer is that Ns will not recognize themselves and will deny what you show
them about themselves. They will, most likely, make the partner think that
there is something wrong in her, that her perception has been distorted,
that she, moreover, has betrayed their unique understanding.

Phase 6: Picking up the Pieces: Trying to make Sense of the Experience and
Coping with the Loss and Anger

Making sense is pretty complicated emotionally but can be summarized in one
sentence rationally: In the words of an experienced partner:

"NPD is actually quite simple. When they want supply (adoration/veneration)
they put on the whole show to obtain that supply. As the supply wanes,
because no one can sustain all the time that high-octane adoration the N
requires, then the N begins to get uneasy and devaluation sets in, followed
by confusion and bewilderment on the part of the spouse/partner, who thinks
s/he has done everything 'right'."

"The key for you is to learn as much as you can as fast as you can, and
protect yourself financially and emotionally. Not too many people survive
the devastation of a tornado. The N will not change, you must absolutely
keep this before your mind."

"I know it is hard for you right now.... But, with this time you can
concentrate on getting back to You! Focus on all your good points, you inner
strength and beauty. It will come back. I think it's something we all are
struggling with, trying to figure out just who we really are. It's our inner
light that keeps us strong."

"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss,
the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of
a mirage."

Anger at what is finally Named as Abuse

At last the anger can be released...as the hope of getting back the "Garden
of Eden" days fades. With distance the Ns games and manipulative ways can be
seen more clearly.

"Maybe it is bad for me to wish her unfortunate times, but that is what she
deserves I have never met anyone more evil than she is. It's the kind of
evil that masquerades as good. I swear I met the devil."

"If you want something to cry about, cry for the N's new victim(s), the
innocent, unmarked, un-inoculated prey. The victims are carefully chosen,
and I feel sad for them."

"About every three months I'd hear about some treachery he was inflicting on
someone, somewhere. This helps remind me NEVER to go back"

The key, as in all break ups, is to avoid contact. This physical distance is
especially important in break-ups with an N as psychological distance and
freedom is very difficult to achieve.

It's important not to blame yourself but get on with detaching both
physically and mentally. Not easy and not pleasant."

Anger towards herself

Anger is not only felt towards the N but perhaps felt in equal measures
towards one's self. The partner sees herself as an idiot for having fallen
for the N, and for not having seen through him earlier. She is angry and
disappointed with herself for having done things, even become a person, who
she did not want to become.though the N's influence. She experiences a great
loss of self, a loss of boundaries, and a loss of self-trust. The re-finding
of herself has to begin.

"And when the crack is too big to keep holding with an elastoplast stick,
then came the shame and humiliation for the victim (me!) and then the
self-addressed anger- how stupid could I have been to trust!!"

Depression

Exhausted by years of self-doubt, emotion abuse, confusion and perhaps
indecision the partner sees herself as a fool. She sees the ways that she
has denied reality to herself; the ways she has ignored her 'inner small
voice of wisdom' and allowed herself to be taken over by a sick person, and
the self-blame can precipitate her into depression.

"I am worried that I am the kind of person who will always end up in a
relationship like the one I had with Peter. I gravitate towards that type of
person, I can see it now...all the men who attract me were Ns. I feel
powerless to do anything about it."

When the anger cannot be expressed, as is often the case in this type of
situation, the energy attached to the experience remains locked up and can
become self destructive.

Phase 7: Moving on, without closure

To come back to the ever-seductive pull of the N, the partner finds she has
to do all the work of putting an end to the relationship herself. The N will
always want to keep it open-ended, to keep his hold on the partner.

"When you try to break off, then, it's like they have a way of keeping you
locked in their gaze. In fact, I think the image of the gaze is appropriate.
You're locked and you cannot be freed. And when you force yourself to look
away, for a time, until the hope ends, it's like you know you're somehow
still present in that gaze, that somehow you still are obsessed with him,
and it is only when you can break it off, sharply, that you can be free. But
he will keep looking!!!"

"I am ready to move on, but some things are proving harder for me to cope
with than others. One thing is knowing that N has always blamed me, is
blaming me now, and will continue to blame me silently, from a distance,
even if I never see her again, for EVERYTHING that ever happened. This
haunts me. I want to find her, shake her, make her realize and admit that
she DID do some destructive things that made our relationship impossible,
and she IS responsible for doing those things. Everything was not my fault!"

"Closure is something that is foreign to us here (in the support group); I
doubt that any of us really feel that there was ever true closure when
dealing with our N's. This wish for closure just keeps this person in your
life"

"I feel like I have extricated myself from a cult."

The support of friends and especially sharing with people who have
experienced the same thing that allows the partner to keep a sense of sanity
and of hope. This is why I refer all my client to support groups.either the
on-line variety or face-to-face versions. The dynamics of this type of
relationship are unique and to see another pass through what you have lived
is a uniquely liberating experience.

There is uniquely strong sense, after a partner has detached herself from
the N., of having met evil personified. Scott Peck in his book "The People
of the Lie" also talked of some types of narcissism as being an expression
of evil. I think that this is because the N. first portrays himself in such
a good light.and then reveals himself as being someone so damaging and
ruthless that we get the sense of our goodness, and belief in goodness being
threatened to the core.. thus the sense of 'evil being made visible'. Also I
believe, the lack of empathy of the N. so injures our social bonds that the
N. is by nature an outcast and an aberration.

Self-knowledge

For some this experience of having been "taken over" by a N. can lead to a
self-questioning which in turn can lead to deeper self-knowledge and
understanding. The ex-partner of the N can start the process of
re-integrated the part of herself that she disowned, and needed the N. to
express for her. This could be the more dynamic, more confident part. Or the
part that wants to be seen and recognized. The possibilities are many. But
through this experience she can re-integrate "shadow" aspects of her
personality. She may realize that she is drawn to an N. because it is a
familiar role.one which she adopted as a child with her father or mother.

She may want to learn how to put better boundaries so that con men can no
longer impress her and invade her world. This work cannot be done till all
the above phases have been worked through and she can take a certain
distance from the trauma.

"I didn't honour my intuition, gut feelings and instinct. The truth is that
I had almost no experience setting healthy boundaries."

"Remember, the trip through the pain will bring the emergence of a stronger
you who will have acquired a self-awareness you never dreamed possible!!!

"Through my self-education I've experienced opposite ends of emotion. On one
hand it's been enlightening, cleansing, joyous, and uplifting. On the other
hand it's been revolting, heart-achingly painful, gut-wrenchingly toxic, and
horribly embarrassing."

Tasting a different kind of relationship

The overwhelming relief felt when a partner of an N enters into a different
type of relationship is in striking contrast. It may not be so exciting, the
non-N may not take his partner to the stars.but what a relief to be able to
be yourself, not be constantly on guard, unafraid of doing something wrong.

Gone are the fears of being unworthy of the great man, doing something
unknowingly that will earn you months of detached disdain.. and will leave
you feeling worse then shit.

Alternatively the partner may remain crushed and shattered by her experience
with the N. She may have lost her self-esteem to such an extent that she
becomes self destructive through relationships or otherwise. Or she may fear
all relationships fearing that all men are wolves in sheep's clothing. A
person who has been a victim for many years will have, in all probability,
lost all sense of herself and be simply a bitter extension of the N.

Counselling

The intervention one makes as a therapist is always influenced by the
readiness or psychological state of the client. This is perhaps especially
true in this type of situation. If the client is in phase 1 or 2 nothing
will be clear enough, in the client's mind, to communicate to the therapist
that the person she is taking about is an N.

In stage 3 on the awareness might be greater but very mixed. The client is
likely to go from thinking something about the way he interacts with me is
unacceptable..."to I have to find a way to get back into his good books.he
is right I should not have asked where he is going that night three months
ago".

I have found that giving the partner a very tentative indication that she
may be in relationship with someone who has personality difficulties opens a
door. At times I give the client (those in the middle stages of such a
relationship) a handout that describes the feelings and experiences of the
partner of an N. I ask her to check if she can identify with any. If she
does I may give her the address of the support group so she can further
compare her experiences with those of the members there. Whether or not she
does it is often a matter of accompanying and supporting the process. This
often includes witnessing the partner's return to the relationship with the
N. These clients need to be sure that what they saw at the beginning (the
prefect partner) is no longer there.and be sure they cannot somehow make
that state re-happen. A lot of the rest is helping rebuild the
self-confidence and self-respect of the individual . and later to understand
why this attraction took place. This involves rebuilding appropriate
boundaries and recognizing, and resisting the inner temptation to give over
control of one's world to a narcissist

As a psychiatrist was once heard saying " Ns. are the bread and butter of
the therapeutic enterprise, not because they so often seek professional
help-they are too impressed with themselves to ever think they have a
problem-but because they drive so many people around them crazy.

Bibliography

Vaknin, S. (1999, 2001) Malignant Self Love; Narcissism Revisited, Narcissus

May 14, 2006
9:58 am
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taj64
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Read it and weep! Anyone that has been involved with a N surely can relate to this article. It doesn't takes weeks or months even once you have been involved with an N. I realize this too. Every time I read this article, thanks by the way Garfield, I get really sad to read because I became that P person, i felt like a fool and sometimes still do yet I feel inspired at the same time because it explains that I was dealing with the devil himself. Matteo, I guess you need to think of that old boyfriend as the devil and whenever you talk to him, think of him as the devil to lure you into the fire. I know exactly how you feel right now Matteo, about that contact that you made with the old boyfriend. I made mine not too long ago. We saw each other on the road and then I had my stupid urge to send him email the next day. We traded emails but then I ended up sending him by far the worse email I ever sent to him. I lashed out and spoke words he would never hear out of my mouth. I cut him down, cut his manly size down, cut his car down, his financial status, the way he looked, the way he treated me, how disrespectful he was to me, everything I could possibly say to hurt and lower him to level I felt where he put me. I have for weeks been feeling twinges of quilt for behaving this way. Did I have to be so cruel? My normal self in this relationship I would have bent over backwards to say sorry to him, or take it back. I did not this time. A part of me is a sorry but a bigger part of me doesn't regret it. It was the only closure for me. All the other closures didn't work. I felt his last email to me to string me along was the last time. Every other time it was bitter sweet. Sweet because I kept thinking he was still holding on the fact that he would like me to keep me abay so that in case it didn't work out with his wife that he could find me and that a part of him still loved me. And bitter because he was with her, still. Anyway don't want to go off the deep end but that very cruel email I sent him, I am sure did nothing for him, if he is true N. I didn't hear a peep from him and I have made sure he definately won't be the one to contact me ever again. Instead of letting love go lovingly, I lashed out with all evil thoughts I had of him. It has been two weeks since doing this. Im still not quite over how cruel I was. Im still trying to pick up the pieces of myself before this happened. If it were not for seeing him on the road and making that contact, I would still be holding on to the what ifs. I still don't know if I did the right thing by being cruel but I do believe that it was the only kind of closure I could get for myself. I don't think I can recommend what I did for you but for me it was only way to ever truly end my stupid love obsession over him. Every time I read that article, I get the chills. I am the person described in the article. Each time I read it, it is the same effect. And it helps me to move forward by coming on to this site. It is only place in my life where I can talk about where I have been and those that understand. And I don't deny I have a long way to go before I ever get my self esteem back from this destructive relationship. I guess the only advice I can give you Matteo is keep plugging away at yourself and allow yourself time to recover from the last phone call. Ending all contact really and truly is the only way to end love obsessions. Out of sight, eventually out of the mind. And to remind yourself that there is someone out there for you that won't cause you this pain. You're are just not ready because he is in the way. Matteo I read your posts and you are amazingly strong person. Your words always inspire me. I hope you don't beat yourself up too much over that phone call. At least you handled yourself very well in it.

May 14, 2006
2:28 pm
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Garfield,

Wow! Thanks a lot for the article! It shows certain things I went through, and so, soooo much more which was possibly spared to me because of his departure. As I said before, I don’t know him well enough to say that he is N, but I assume that he is because of how close he felt to me, being raised by my N. mother and being IN in the past, but the more I read about narcissism, the more certainty I have that he in fact is a narcissist. I know that the conditioning I received in childhood, and my leftover Inverted Narcissist’s traits are playing a tremendous role in my attraction to him. But there are so many other characteristics which I like about him and which we do have in common; a lot associated with culture and upbringing, as well his looks, intellect, and attitudes, literally almost everything one would look for in a perfect partner. He could not possibly mirror all those things, because this is something what you either learn very early on, or who you are, and all that makes it only harder for me. We were the perfect couple not only because of being this IN-N team, but also because of everything else. We both went to the Stars and we both miss it…

Lost in the cloud… I never was preoccupied with his feelings but he was extremely closely tuned to my feelings to the point that he was saying something at the same time when I was thinking about it. He just understood me without words, almost telepathically, and without seeing me. I know that he knows that he has this ability to feel my feelings, and when I read about it that it is one of the BP characteristics, it scared the daylights out of me. He used it to leave always at the point when I trusted him the most or when I truly started to trust again.

I know that when we first met, he was considering leaving his partner, (who always feels the sea of love for him when he wants to leave), but he decided that she will be a better source of NS than I would be. After all she is devoted to him, and only to him, for 24 years now, while I am not, and being with me would mean having to accommodate to my lifestyle in some uncomfortable ways. However, he wanted to keep me as his backup supply. Apparently still does.

I never became his satellite. In fact I refused to be his “sloppy seconds” as alicat put it, I didn’t agree to the lifestyle he proposed. My boundaries were quite clear in that aspect. I didn’t agree to become his lover not because of morality but because I had much more to offer to him, and I expect as much in return.

His understanding of me and acceptance in the beginning of our relationship caused that my self-esteem reached the level which I would say always should have been. Thanks to him I became this secure, happy and loving person I was meant to be. My self-esteem was never better. I waited all my life to meet a lover who would understand and accept me, not tell me that I am different, difficult, complex or strange, too this or too that. He did this for me, and he never criticized me, even when I did criticized him to make him angry. He was so angry that he was foaming, but never said a bad word about me. We both felt like we knew each other a lifetime.

I know that my mother was in long term relationships, despite this big gap in her heart and she in many aspects was a good and loyal wife, especially with her second husband who, I assume, didn’t have as high expectations as my father did. She was a better, much better wife than she was a mother. I know that I would have to do the same: lower my expectations in many ways, and I am not sure if I would still manage to be happy in that kind of relationship.

But I still don’t want to loose him from my sight. I am grateful to him for my new outlook on myself, and the world around as a consequence, and on love as well. He will always have a special place in my heart, even when I will stop swirling and missing him and when I will be truly grateful that I am not in a relationship with him. I feel sorry for him and I don’t mind providing his NS supply for him for as long as it doesn’t hurt me, and it doesn’t if we don’t speak to each other, while at the same time explaining to myself and him who we are and how that played in our relationship and my inability to detach easily. I hope that the more I will learn and understand, the easier it will become. And of course time helps as well.

As the article says: "When you try to break off, then, it's like they have a way of keeping you locked in their gaze. In fact, I think the image of the gaze is appropriate. You're locked and you cannot be freed. And when you force yourself to look away, for a time, until the hope ends, it's like you know you're somehow still present in that gaze, that somehow you still are obsessed with him, and it is only when you can break it off, sharply, that you can be free. But he will keep looking!!!" The first phone call yesterday illustrated to me that I am still locked in his gaze. And I am still not strong enough to run. I am just crawling away.

This is what brought me here, to this site: “For some this experience of having been "taken over" by a N. can lead to a self-questioning which in turn can lead to deeper self-knowledge and understanding. The ex-partner of the N can start the process of re-integrated the part of herself that she disowned, and needed the N. to express for her. This could be the more dynamic, more confident part. Or the part that wants to be seen and recognized. The possibilities are many. But through this experience she can re-integrate "shadow" aspects of her personality. She may realize that she is drawn to an N. because it is a familiar role. one which she adopted as a child with her father or mother.” And that’s the explanation.

May 14, 2006
5:50 pm
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Oh Matteo,

After your thorough post i see that part of my reason for coming here is to experience input like yours.

Your reflectiveness and awareness inspires me

May 14, 2006
10:28 pm
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Littlespirit,

Wow! Thanks a lot!

May 15, 2006
12:00 am
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Matteo
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Taj64,

“Narcissistically Impaired Personality” - I really like this term, this is what it is all about: a personality which is defective, and substandard, not evil. Although evil in literature is often presented as a handsome man, with charming smile, cruel, cold and manipulative – I guess this is where the hostility to Ns. comes from, and of course the pain inflicted by them.
If you read my post above, I don’t see him as a devil, nevertheless as someone who would lure me into the fire, if I allowed myself to be lured. I know how it feels already; I know how skillful he is in providing rollercoaster rides with the fall from the highest section in the end of the ride. I am not beating myself up for the phone call. As I calculated, the cycle in his relationship is late this year, because, as it seemed to me, the cleansing storm last year was bigger than usually, so he is not yet in a great need of NS. I am happy that he is OK, and healthy. I didn’t call him back, as he allowed me to, neither did he. The danger is over. Whew.

I am sorry that you had such bad and long experience with your ex. It always makes me think, when I read your story, about how lucky I am that despite my love for him I was guarded the first time we met, that he didn’t insist, that he left when he didn’t get what he wanted, when we met for the second time...I understand what you mean by making sure that he will not contact you again. I thought about it too. I could do something what would make him very angry and which would make him not want to do anything with me, ever. I wrote a letter to him after the breakup, long time ago, which I never sent or gave it to him. He feels safe with me, meaning that he is sure that I will not disturb the equilibrium in his life, that I will not disturb the waters of the stinky pond he is swimming in. But if I would send this letter – his reaction would be very different. He would have possibly some explanation to do and even if not, he would perceive me as danger to his life as it is. I know that this is the way to do it. Making sure that there are no ties to cut anymore. But I know that I would have to live with the consequences of my action, and I am not ready yet.

I would like to congratulate you on your move, and I am not going to judge if cruelty was the right way to go about it or not. You know what he deserves, and most of all you know what would work to achieve the goal of cutting the cord. We both know, that there is no other way. Hang in there. Hugs to you.

May 15, 2006
4:00 pm
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Matteo, Taj and Littlespirit

I hardly have any time to go on the internet these days. Just too busy with husband, kids, work etc.

Tonight I had time to read throught all the post.

By reading others experiences I can always reflect on my own life. It gives me strenght to know I am not alone. It reminds me of things I have forgotten about. Things I try to avoid working on.

I have to face myself. The most difficult thing ever for me

Love and hugs to all

Garfield

May 16, 2006
11:28 pm
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Matteo
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September 29, 2010
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Garfield,

Thank you, and thank you again for the article. It makes me see what, quite possibly, I didn't have to go through, and makes me appreciate the fact that I didn't. There are times when I can detach and look at him more objectively - perhaps, but somehow my heart still does not follow.

All the best to you on your journey...By the way, I read somewhere that you want to move to detach? Sometimes it is the best to physically remove yourself from a harmful situation, but sometimes moving away indicates moving away from deeper buried issues which we don't want to face. I did it many times: changing people and places, cutting old ties, although a while ago I realized that my problems would not change, they will be slightly different, but in all really very similar, despite different surroundings and people involved, and I realized that all my running is pointless, because I am trying to run from myself...When G. left - guess what was my first impulse? But that was after my metamorphosis already, and this time I decided to stick to myself and deal with whatever I have to face. My advice is - think what is the real motivation behind your move - removing yourself from danger or having a "new start"? Do it if it is for the first reason, but stay if it is the second.

All the best. Hugs to you.

May 19, 2006
4:12 pm
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garfield9547
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Matteo

Thanks so much. What you say is true. I already got rid of the external mother and father, Working on the internal. This will never go away. I will just learn to channel it through my adult.

I made the break. I do not nead to emigrate. I realised that. My bounderies are stronger than ever.

If I emigrate it would now be to live in a saver environment. The crime rate is toooooo high here.

Thanks for the reply

Garfield

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