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PICKED UP "DOLL" OF A HITCHIKER IN TEXAS
July 19, 2005
12:03 am
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exoticflower
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So if I said 'beautiful', that would be okay? So then, 'hot' is cheuvenistic? What is it that you think I'm implying by using the term 'hot'. Does 'hot' mean, according to you, that I think she should go get my beer and scrub my toilet when she's not being a baby raising-making-taking care of machine? I assure you that, as a 34-year-old male that I'd be married by now if I meant that. I can find a few women like that I think. Or, does 'hot' mean that I think of her as a slut or a whore, in your estimation? As I said, this was a pretty platonic date that we had. My great aunt Trudie was 'hot' as a young girl. I assure you I think neither of her or have any incestual desire for her.

As a final note, however, this rant made no sense to me. I found it rude of you to mimick someone on these boards, found your hostile defensiveness something that made me uncomfortable not to point out. This stuff is plain creepy to me, you appear to know nothing about me, and it is nasty and rude to go off on someone in this fashion. I see a real agression problem here, and some severe insecurity. Defensiveness to this degree is concerning to me when I see it in people I care for, and I try to extend the same honesty that I do to people I care for to people on this board, as I am grateful so often that they do for me.

July 19, 2005
12:10 am
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clayrains
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Point well taken Exoticflower. Thanks.
I shouldn't have mentioned the fact that she didn't wear a bra.

July 19, 2005
12:17 am
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clayrains
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Exoticflower, Do you have a sense of humor? (seriously, no malice meant)

You said...

"I ho[pe you find the answer to the questions you have."

Does the bracket in front of the 'pe' in 'hope' serve to create the word 'ho'? Are you trying to say you think that this is what my date is?

I HONESTLY AM JUST JOKING!

July 19, 2005
1:40 am
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turnabout
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All right ... Let's chill out here.

Defensiveness and judgement is all over the place. This has become an absolutely toxic thread.

May I suggest we let the whole thing die?

clayrains, you are welcome to come here in search of support. If you wish to continue with this topic, perhaps you would like to reword your original post in a new thread? I suggest this b/c you have expressed some dissatisfaction with it being written in a hurry while still excited and needing sleep. Perhaps you would like a chance to express yourself more clearly? It's merely a suggestion...

I don't think the atmosphere created on this thread is something we want to perpetuate. We may just need a fresh start. And for your own sakes, please take accountability if you contributed to the toxicity here. --Not so anyone can hold it over you, but as part of your own growth in self-awareness and self-acceptance.

July 19, 2005
2:59 am
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clayrains
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Okay

July 19, 2005
3:01 am
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clayrains
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I'm writing her right now, so I don't expect to be back at all. This is taking up too much of my time. It's okay though. No offense taken. Goodbye.

July 19, 2005
7:13 am
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gazelle
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Do you own this site, turnabout? How high-handed & controlling your comments seem to me. When you jump in with judgements from on high and make generalised, unspecified criticisms, I become indignant & upset.

I don't know what you consider "toxic" about any of my postings. Please specify.
Personally, I stand by what I said. My criticisms of Clayrains' writing were ones he himself had invited. He doesn't seem to have a problem with my rather severe criticisms, and in fact thanks me more than once. He then opened up a little more, which may have helped him unpack his thoughts & feelings further. This seems good for me (having difficulty learning assertiveness in expressing my opinions) and for him (getting feedback & learning different points of view.)

If you have a problem with me, kathygy, 22haha, exoticflower (hi there, btw!) clayrains or anyone else, then please be fair enough to address us DIRECTLY - rather than making sweeping general condemnations of a whole thread. I see that as passive-aggressive & unfair to all of us. It is not up to you to terminate this or any other thread. Nor to preach at unspecified people.

Good luck, Clay. Please bear in mind my little warning higher up. I hope you follow your head besides your heart, and find what you are looking for. Post again any time you need.

Blessings - gazelle.

July 19, 2005
10:45 am
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revelation
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Oh dear....listen all, I am sorry if any of my comments caused or contributed to any bad feeling.

The reason I wrote what I wrote was because the initial post from Clayrains seemed very in your face, also the language was unnecessarily offensive I felt. Due to this and the content of the post (which I will admit I was a little confused by) I immediately got on the defensive, for this I do apologise.

July 19, 2005
2:27 pm
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angel4U
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ok all, I am going to add my 2 cents as objectively as I can ... I also found that this thread was going in the wrong direction (which I think is what turnabout may have meant by toxic).

clayrains - Your responses also seemed to me to be defensive. And I have to be honest, this whole thread was discomforting to me. You asked up front for US to ask you questions, but for the most part when you were questioned, and more so when you were confonted, you had one liners that were hard to decipher (for me anyway) as to what you were really looking for, and a whole bunch of questions of your own that mostly seemed to have to do with judging people's thoughts.

I don't know you, and also am aware that communication on a board like this as well as writing styles can easily cause miscomunications, so I am trying to be cautious and not judge here and simply share with you what "my eyes" see ...

For th emost part, when the posters either questioned you as to what you were looking for from them or confronted you with their discomfort (btw - most women have a tendency to like to be seen as more than a hot chick with no bra), rather than responding with interest or compassion you seemed to check out quickly (e.g. "I can see that I chose the wrong place to post this story. So, I'll just end this thread I think. Thanks for the comments. Sorry for wasting anyone's time as well" AND "This is taking up too much of my time. It's okay though. No offense taken. Goodbye"

Then, when you seemed to be getting some support from others, you opened up ... but still responded defensively when someone said they were uncomfortable and made (what I see as) several diverting and discounting remarks. In some instances you looked like you were apologizing, but also taking it back by playing devil's advocate (as if you were trying to make the poster question her own feelings ... not cool!) Here's some instances I can point out where I see this:

* "So if I said 'beautiful', that would be okay? So then, 'hot' is cheuvenistic? What is it that you think I'm implying by using the term 'hot'. Does 'hot' mean, according to you, that I think she should go get my beer and scrub my toilet when she's not being a baby raising-making-taking care of machine? I assure you that, as a 34-year-old male that I'd be married by now if I meant that. I can find a few women like that I think. Or, does 'hot' mean that I think of her as a slut or a whore, in your estimation? As I said, this was a pretty platonic date that we had. My great aunt Trudie was 'hot' as a young girl. I assure you I think neither of her or have any incestual desire for her."

* "Okay, I had to say that, but I'm sure I'll get drug around a bit for that too. "Are you an ego case" Do have to have positive affirmation of your looks?!" hehe"

* (post 1) Point well taken Exoticflower. Thanks. I shouldn't have mentioned the fact that she didn't wear a bra. (post 2) Exoticflower, Do you have a sense of humor? (seriously, no malice meant) ... You said... "I ho[pe you find the answer to the questions you have." Does the bracket in front of the 'pe' in 'hope' serve to create the word 'ho'? Are you trying to say you think that this is what my date is? I HONESTLY AM JUST JOKING!"

ef was clearly getting annoyed by this point, so to throw something like this out (IMO) further discounted her feelings ... and by textbook standards, most of your responses to her would be considered abuse.

I think there is a learning experience in everything, so I'd like to ask you: Why did you find it necessary to respond like this?

July 19, 2005
2:34 pm
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addicts wife
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well done angel/EF/gazzelle/rev!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

July 19, 2005
2:37 pm
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angel4U
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added note; I wanted to add that alot of the responses seemed to be twisting what someone was saying and putting words/thoughts in people's mouths, as if you did not really "listen" to what they were saying.

I find this very frustrating myself, and can truly relate to how ef was feeling.

ef - I believe your responses were very respectful, of both you and clay. Something I am learning ... When you feel like you are in a one-sided discussion where you are not feeling heard, it's no use to continue trying to explain yourself. If someone refuses to truly "listen" and acknowledge and respect your opinion, it's much easier/better to exit than to continue to try to explain yourself.

July 19, 2005
3:42 pm
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kathygy
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clay, I agree that your responses seem to be defensive. I wonder why you came here. I wonder what kind of responses you wanted to hear about your story. It sounds very ungrounded to me to get hyperexcited about a beautiful much younger woman that you don't know. You are the one who got people to thinking that you were objectifying this woman by your initial post just refering to her as 'hot'.

This site is very clear what it is about on the front page of these threads.

You sounded to me like it was all about your ego. You got an ego lift out of being with a 'hot' young woman.

I haven't heard you take some responsibility for your part in elicitating the responses you got here.

July 19, 2005
3:58 pm
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jamaicanwife
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clayrains seems to have moved on, but I do have my 2 cents to add - I chose not to respond to his original post because it seemed out of place. He didn't seem to be seeking help or advice, which a site with counselling in its name would offer. He seemed to be attempting to write something tittilating (what a great word!).

The way he ended it seemed to be an invitation to comment on how 'hot' the setup for his porn story sounded, so he could tell you where to go to get the rest of the story - hotrussianhitchiker.com, or some such thing.

Anyway.

July 19, 2005
7:52 pm
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Anonymous
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Wow...Things heat up pretty quickly when you miss a day or two of posting...

I've learned a lot here about healthy disagreement today.

Initially I found a few post to be what I could only term as pointlessly cold. Guess I thought you had to have true malice in your heart to confront someone in an unpleasant way.

What I've learned is that it takes all kinds of personalities and points of view to make this place effective for healing.

This means that we're all (you're all) entitled to your points of view and types of dispositions even (especially) if when they clashes with mine. And I'm growing comfortable enough to handle it.

July 19, 2005
7:59 pm
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turnabout
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gazelle, or anyone else whom I may have offended,

I have the utmost respect for this site and the posters here. It was not my intention to condemn or pass judgement on anyone within this thread.

What I perceived as toxic was a series of posts which were emotional reactions from multiple sources. I personally do not hold any single person or set of people responsible for what was toxic, and had no desire to single anyone out. Everyone has a right to the feelings this thread inspired. However, when caught in a whirlwind of emotional reaction, communication breaks down and nothing really gets accomplished. Since a cycle of escalating reactions was well under way, I suggested we kill the thread and start fresh. I have no authority here, and NO ONE is obliged to follow my suggestion.

Also, I see now that my suggestion that contributors take accountability was poorly worded, and I apologize for that. My intentions did not come across in that statement at all. I don't think anyone has any cause to feel embarrassed or ashamed over anything expressed here, but this is an excellent opportunity to recognize that we determine not only our actions and conscious choices, but our REactions, as well. Having had my share of emotional reactions this past year, I know that we almost never get the desired result, and it is one of the ways we give up control over our own lives. When we become defensive, we have allowed someone else to determine how we think and feel about ourselves. Taking accountability for our REactions is a tool for us to assert complete autonomy over ourselves rather than justifying repeated patterns.

Again, I simply hoped to shift our focus back onto suppor. Good day all.

July 19, 2005
8:16 pm
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sewunique
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Hi All,

Two days ago this thread started. This saga of a boys's fanatsy coming true was told with questionable intentions of why it was presented here.

Since then, wwe have gone full circle to responding back to the original posteer, whom seemed to wavere back and forth with his attitude to certain posters. Now here we are, all apoligizing for this and that, trying to explain ourselves and justify what was on our minds when we posted before, etc.

Is there a lesson here? Perhaps the intention of the story teller recieved from what was presented by our responses?

I stand by my original post as the originator of this thread seems to be long gone and subsequentially has left us out in the rain.

We live and learn!

Peace,

Sew

July 19, 2005
8:20 pm
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Anonymous
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Agreed, Sew! If you've been around any message boards at all, there are "trolls" everywhere. I'm not saying that this was the case here, but that's the usual MO...they dodge in and dodge out just long enough to stir the pot.

Another thought...maybe somebody's ex?

July 19, 2005
8:25 pm
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sewunique
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You know, back a few months ago, I would have jumped in with a row big time with similiar of this thread, but it feels good to sit back a bit. I haven't been posting of late, mainly just reading the threads. It feels great to be in this new place of mine; there is hope to improve oneself!

Peace,

Sew

July 19, 2005
8:35 pm
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22haha
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I was thinking that too plzdont - someone comes in, gets a rise out of everyone, and then leaves - without taking responsibility for their action. Seems like I have been through that before!! We are here to help each other and stick together - lets refocus here.

July 19, 2005
9:43 pm
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starkist1956
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I dont know about picking up a hith hiker but it sounds care free and young and you are free of all the baggage alot of us have....enjoy all the fun and excitement you can...but be wise...the next pick up could be deadly ......

July 19, 2005
9:55 pm
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Philosuffer
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I wouldn't be surprised if this were just a ruse.

In any case, I found it bizarre enough not to warrant much of my time. šŸ™‚

July 19, 2005
9:59 pm
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exoticflower
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Oh boy, is this still going on? Let's all just let it go, there are so many productive things we can do with our energy, this seems to be zapping everyones possitive mindsets and working us all up. SOmetimes the best thing we can do for ourselves is let go of what we cannot change...is there really anything to be acclomplished here? Just my opinion, of course, but this seems like a pointless conflict by now.

July 20, 2005
9:44 am
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kathygy
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turnabout, I feel compelled to respond to your posts saying that you objected to emotional responses from multiple sources. My objection is that you make a vague accusation and that leaves me wondering who you are talking about and which posts. If you have a raction to certain posts I think you should address that specififc poster and not leave people wondering what you are talking about. I think it is wrong to just say toxic posts wihtout saying which posts you are refering to.

July 20, 2005
11:01 am
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gazelle
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My 'mindset' is not 'zapped', nor am I in any conflict. The point for me is in daring to practise expressing myself more assertively & honestly, instead of always just burning & bursting with stuffed feelings. I usually just 'wimp out' & get v depressed & helpless. So setting the record straight with dignity is very positive & helpful for me.

Thanks for your last, Kathy.

I admit I felt hurt by sweepingly generalised criticisms tarring several people with the same brush. We are individuals & deserve respect as such. I wish people would criticise what others say specifically, rather than the fact that they say anything at all ... in some vague, unanswerable way. That makes people (well, me) feel got at, helpless & unable to 'improve'. What are my 'sins', so I can work on them, please? I truly try my very best to be supportive & empathetic, and take care with my wording, however imperfect the result.

2 points: 1) Aren't ALL reactions emotional? All human motivation, in fact - even when mediated & moderated by reason?

2) Isn't the whole point of these boards to elicit responses "from multiple sources"?

Anyway, Turnabout, I feel I DID succeed quite well at communicating with Clayrains. He did open up a little more personally. He also said I was the only one who understood where he was coming from (I used my empathy & imagination.) I feel he did learn quite a lot from my & other people's responses. I DO take responsibility for my posts, for reasons already given.

I realise now that you did not mean to upset me - so thank you for saying that. I admit I was v hurt, after putting so much effort & thought into my posts. I am now trying very hard not to always be a "people pleaser" as I used to do, but to carefully think out what I mean to convey of my real opinions & feelings. Even wounded ones. In that spirit, I'm sorry if my doing that upset you in turn. I truly hope we can be 'friends', with no hard feelings on either side, and lots of mutual respect & support šŸ™‚

Blessings (I keep saying 'blessings' and keep meaning it too) - gazelle.

July 20, 2005
1:59 pm
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turnabout
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gazelle, you have put a lot of energy into defending yourself, (and bravo if that is one of your issues!)but I'm honestly befuddled over why you chose to take my post personally.

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