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Online Betrayal...Again
August 31, 2001
3:39 pm
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scorned
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I caught my husband talking online to other women. He even told one that he was tired of me and wanted her to come here from California to take my place. He described how I treat him so bad, even though I keep the house clean, make his meals, and fill his plate. I am a SAHM by the way. I confronted him and he promised to never do it again and we almost sold the computer, but he wanted to earn my trust back, so told him I wanted to keep the computer and make him prove I could trust him. I know his passwords to his IDs and check them whenever I want. Message archiving is enabled. I thought I was doing good.

Then I saw him talking to an underaged girl yesterday. I looked oer his shoulder a few times and the conversationo looked innocent enough. Then just before supper he checked his emails, deleted some messages, and emptied the trash. He NEVER empties the email trash because he says the system does it on a regular basis, which it does. I thought that was kind of odd, so after he went to bed I checked the message archives and guess what? NO record of him talking to THAT girl, but all the others were left intact! Sound suspicious?

I was going to make him dig his own hole last time by creating another id and getting him to brag to the id what he is like and what he has done, but I got too mad and anxious and jumped the gun and confronted him. This time, I am not so stupid. I plan to do just that, with a little help from a friend so he can know it isn't me by talking to her when I am home. I am going to catch him and show him what the prrof I have on himthis time is and give him an ultimatum. Either he enters counseling with me to deal with his dissatisfaction with me, or I am gone. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.

August 31, 2001
4:39 pm
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nash234
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Wow, this sounds familiar. My husband not only was talking to a woman on line, he was talking to her on the phone and had her convinced that he loved her and was going to leave me for her. He told me it was just a game he was playing and he had no intention of leaving me, but this woman didn't know this. After we had a huge fight over it, he told her the truth and didn't talk to her for awhile, now I have been noticing e-cards from her and the other night, he was in a private chat room with her. I told him today that I didn't like it and wanted him to stop, so we'll see what happens. Unfortunetly, I don't have a way to check on him or someone to do it for me. I am on my own. I don't really know what to tell you except to let you know that you are not alone and that this isn't as uncommon as one may think it is. I wish you the best of luck in solving your problem. I hope I can solve mine too.

August 31, 2001
5:36 pm
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scherza
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This online betrayal thing seems to be the new craze these daze....

I can think of two friends that are dealing with it in two really different ways.

One friend just sticks with the husband and tries to change him. She has developed a huge drinking problem in the process, giving him more fodder to gossip about, and he hasn't changed a bit...but she believes that one day he will.

My other friend accepts that her husband's need to get more attention than she can give him and does not internalize any of his issues. She stuck with him through a few indiscretions but now she just wants to move on and have a quiet divorce from him...not trying to change him a bit...not making him wrong...just embracing herself and deciding that she cannot live with this and he cannot live without it.

These men in both scenarios live in a fantasy world. Neither woman can make their husbands "come back" to real life. These husbands have to WANT to do this on their own. The attention they are getting from their online rendezvous is like a drug for them.

The woman in the first scenario is killing herself to control her mate. The woman in the second scenario has never tried to tell him what to do. She has simply expressed her feelings about his behavior and he made promises he couldn't keep and then broke them...many times. She cannot live with him now, so she is moving on.

Neither one of these women have an easy time of it...but I think that the second woman has a better chance of getting the love she needs than the first woman.

***Live from the Scherza Soap Box***

August 31, 2001
6:06 pm
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scutterhead
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Online affairs have been happening for years... the safety of annonyminity brings the offender to a world where he/she cannot and will not be held accountable for their behavior. A "real" place where they can do all sorts of things. I mean, what can you really do? spy on them? If they cannot be true to you, they just can't. Online or face-to-face, they're being unfaithful.

August 31, 2001
8:03 pm
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sue2001
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well what about hidding porn sites...I know that my hubby looks at them and he chats with girls in here I have not found one that he has chatted with for a long time but the quality out soes the quantity every time... so it is wrong it does hurt ... and something should be done about it.. but as a person says in this and she knows who she is ... 🙂 YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN CHANGE HIS/HERSELF.... you don't like it set boundaries and don't let them be crossed and when they are be prepared to protect them... I am learning how to do that now...

August 31, 2001
10:44 pm
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sue2001
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this is just a vent.... My husband had plans for the evening. I have known about it for a while now and it is something he does that is agreable (not like he was going to a bar) any way he said that he was going to get in the shower and that he would be leaving soon... he asked if I would go get something for him to eat... I asked him what he wanted and hesaid he didn't care... That is the give away that he wanted me out of the house.... (one time he asked me to go to the store to but him a crosstitch pattern???) any way I hung around kind of waiting for him to get in the shower finally he said that he was gonna wait till he ate to get in the shower.... so I took the hint and went on I had things I had to have done by a certain time anyway and didn't have the time to play his games... so either he didn't hear me pull up or was to distracted to notice when I opened the door he was standing up in front of the computer and the monitor was turned off and he was turning it back on the computer was running and he clicked on a screen and up came a pooter spread eagle on the screen... he turned and looked at me... and I said I see... he didn't say anything and sat there looking thru his email... trying to buy some time I am sure for things to humm soften up a bit... any way ... I didn't say anything and that is what I am worked up about right now... and the fact that he clicked the screen with that pic on it like he was showing me that he can and will do it wether I like it or not... and I didn't say anything... damn it ... I know that he did not have to open that screen again... I am not as computer savy as most but I do know my way around... and then just to add to it he deleted the history which he has never done before... so... he is jerking me around.. and i am letting him... when I have had enough I guess I will say stop ....
My cousin used to beat the crap out of his wife all of the time for any reason....and she would take it... and take it and take it... we all used to talk about her .... hell we wouldn't put up with it ... she must like it or she would leave him... I liked her alot and I felt bad for her but I didn't like it that she let him beat her all of the time... finally she had enoughand she said stop... and she meant it... but you know what she got before she said stop? a baby that is now 13 or 14 that is still a baby ... alchol fetal syndrome....... I have to say stop now ... I have to lower my full line ... I have to do that now before well I don't know i won't be having any more children and I don't drink any way ... before my kids grow up and be me and him all over again... some might say that i don't love my kids or I wouldn't let things go like this .... the abuse,,, and alll... I do love my kids and I believe if it weren't for that love for them I wouldn't be here now.. venting and chewing you guys ears off. I know that the cycle has to stop... and I am willing to do it... and wanting to do it... but being able to do it is the kicker for me ... I don't know what kind of strength i have... we have decided that I am strong and I knew that really but it is like the strong man pauseing as he lifts the 1000 pounds onup over his head.. we know he is strong enough to pick it up but is he strong enough to lift itall the way up..... I will be. thank you all that sighed and read this any way thank you.... one and all.... SUE

September 1, 2001
4:14 pm
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Molly
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Sue its not an easy choice, its not an easy task. It is easy to sit on the side lines, and say I would never ever tolorate that. How many women have said I would never live with a man that hit me. It would be the first and last, and audios!! But look at the domestic violence numbers, right. The medication of the problem which sounds like many unfortunately choose is not the answer either.
it hurts, its disgusting, and it sounds like he made his point, and you got it. You can't stop him.
So, you don't have to be rash about it, you can make your moves with common sense, still protecting your children and your self. I'm sorry.

September 7, 2001
7:34 pm
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scorned
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I have been doing further snooping and have found out that someone has sent him an "I've gota crush on you" message from an online dating service. Harmless enough, but I went to the linkn in the message and found out that HE is now registered there. He has not told me about this. He promised to tell me EVERYTHING after last time.

I have created the new ID to see what he is up to, and so far we cannot get together at the same time. My friend is having computer probs so she is unable to help right now. I am trying to find out HOW far he is willing to go. Then I will know if we need counseling or if I am even willing to watch myself be made a fool of again.

September 7, 2001
7:40 pm
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pill
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hmmm. very clever the snooping thing. If you like spending your time that way. I wish you luck. Let me know if you would like me to snoop on him from my computer. email:[email protected]

September 7, 2001
7:40 pm
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pill
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hmmm. very clever the snooping thing. If you like spending your time that way. I wish you luck. Let me know if you would like me to snoop on him from my computer. email:[email protected]

September 7, 2001
9:26 pm
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gingerleigh
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What are you going to do when your worst suspicions are confirmed? (Because they will be. In cases like this, they always are.)

Let me ask you a pointed very obnoxious question. Is it OK with you that you are married and your husband has a profile on a dating service? (Did anyone else spit out a gob of chunky monkey comfort food ice cream when they read that?) Doesn't that cross your line for what is acceptable and what isn't at ALL?

You have your proof that things are really effed up. What more proof are you looking for? That he might flirt with a stranger online? That maybe he would have online sex? Or maybe he would agree to meet for a clandestine face to face rendezvous?

He's already made a fool of you, sweetheart. And he's doing it right now, again, over and over again. Yet you're waiting around to see if he will do it one last time. You're looking for an answer to the question: Is there something wrong here?

You already know what the answer is. The REAL question here is do you want things to get better or do you just want to waste your time playing detective?

*GL getting off her soap box, cleaning up the gob of chunky monkey off the floor, and sticking the spoon back in her mouth*

September 7, 2001
10:07 pm
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scorned
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As a matter of fact, I AM trying to see how far he will go. I know that he will lie and talk, but will he go so far as actually cheating? What if I do find out? Then I will have a whole lot of crap to use in a divorce. I know he is a liar, there ain't no question anymore. I just want to catch him one last time and shatter his world like he is trying to do to me. As for the dating service registration, yes, it bothers me. It bothers me to know that he is dumb enough and bored with me enough to be curious enough to try to find out who has a crush on him. That is so f***ed up, all I can feel is rage, and sorrow for the loss of the spark that has kept us together.

Do I like playing detective? YES, and I'll tell you why! I like playing detective because it irritates him to no end to know that I am better at finding stuff out than he is, and HE is the one trying to be a detective! I am going to see how far he will go, and if it isn't to the point of actually cheating, I will work on our marriage if he agrees to counseling. If it is to the point that he will run around, then I am running out the door. I will not tolerate that, but I am going to drag him down on my way out!

September 7, 2001
10:09 pm
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scorned
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I might mention that we have children together and he IS a good father to them. I just will not stay with a man that doesn't give ME the respect that I deserve.

September 8, 2001
11:56 am
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gingerleigh
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Please take care of you, you sound intelligent and like you have a lot of love to give someone too. Having children together does complicate matters, doesn't it? Please bear in mind though that weird vibes in the house, although you think that both you and hubby are hiding it, do reach the little ones on levels you might not even expect.

This situation is very upsetting, believe me I know. (Side note: I can relate to Sue's plight with the porn. I can remember walking up behind my husband with a cup of coffee when he was "working late" on the computer, giving him a soft hug, and glancing up to see a picture large as life of some blond woman doing the most unnatural things to a horse. I swear. And he didn't even bother to be embarassed or minimize it or make excuses. He just sat there brazenly as though he were saying "This is who I am, like it or not, now give me my coffee b*tch.")

Anyway, my point was, before I got distracted, was that perhaps you should find someone to talk to, to help you stay levelheaded throughout this process. "Pick and choose your battles wisely." A little counseling can go a long way in helping you figure out if this marriage is something you want to fight for or if a hastily beaten retreat is the best way to save yourself.

September 9, 2001
10:18 am
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Katherine
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Just out of pure curiousity, how do you set up you computer so you can see the history? Is it all websites that you visit, or just the ones you visit from you home page? I would really like to know this, if anyone can tell me, please do. Thanks.

September 9, 2001
4:48 pm
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scorned
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If you use Yahoo Messenger, all you have to do is make sure you have the most current version. If not, download the new version. If you have his ID's password, open Messenger under his ID and click on Login onthe top toolbar. Go down to preferences and then click Messages. Make sure the box is checked for Enable Archiving and all the boxes below it are checked to store messages, alerts, and conferences. This only works if you have the password to the ID you are trying to archive. Doing this DOES NOT archive all conferences for all ID's on the computer, just that one. Now all you have to do is sit back and let whoever get online and dig his own hole or ease your suspisions.

As for the website history, if you use Windows open Internet Explorer and you will see History on toolbar at the top of the page. You can click on this to view the pages. It saves all websites visited using that computer, not just the ID currently using it. To set the number of days to record the websites, click on Tools on the top toolbar and go down to Internet Options. Then make sure the General tab is open and go down to temporary internet files. CLick on Setting and then Click on View files. This will show you all the cookies from the web sites visited recently. I have found this is more reliable because all he has to do is click on Clear History under the Internet Options and clear the history. Computer maintenance programs also clear the history but may leave the cookies.

Also, I am about to order a program called System Detective that is a hidden program in the computer.It records EVERYTHING; Messenger chats, websites visited, everything anyone does on any program on that computer and plays them back for the person who knows it is there like watching a VCR tape. I believe my husband knows I am watching and is deleting all the stuff I am looking for. I glimpsed him talking to a girl last night and the archive for her was gone when I checked. He won't be able to hide it from me if I have that program. I will let you know how it goes once it is installed.

September 9, 2001
4:58 pm
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hollycb
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I know EXACTLY what you're talking about because I am living the same thing! When my husband and I were dating, he had a subscription to Playboy that he shared with all his married friends at work. I told him how much this offended me and how much I couldn't live with that. At first, he would say he was going to cancel, but he kept trying to cajole me out of it. When we finally got into a frightful argument about how I won't live with porn, he got mad but he cancelled it.

Now our 7.5 year marriage (no kids) has been a series of battles and secrets about this same issue. When we got cable in '95, he wanted the package that included Cinemax, and he would frequently get up in the middle of the night (if ever I got up to see what he was doing, he always had the sound completely down and would quickly flip the channel). I finally had it turned off (financial excuse--no way to prove what he was doing).

When we got Internet in '96, he continued getting up in the night to visit porn sites. At the time, I was the only one who knew how to check the history. When I confronted him about it, he totally denied it, then when I showed him how I knew what he had been viewing, he promised to stop. But he became more of a computer expert than I am about how to hide the sites visited. (I know how to check for cookies, so I think that he is still visiting these sites, but once again, I am not sure how to prove it).

Two years ago, we had a doozy argument when I read an e-mail he received from a woman in Australia--complete with her scanned photo, and reference to a photo he had sent to her along with some "tee-hees" about what the other would think what they looked like. I cried unbelievably, and when I confronted him that night, he said it was nothing. He said he had mentioned her to me before and was only writing to her because she had been to England (where we were planning a trip). He totally denied it was anything flirtatious. I asked what was the deal with the picture, and he just kept saying, "I DON'T KNOW--IT DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING!" I said it obviously did to her. I asked if she knew about me, and he said he couldn't remember if it had ever come up. He promised he would never write to her again if it meant that much to me. (But to this day I have no idea what he actually said to her, or even if her really did end it.) I wanted SO BAD to write to her and tell her I got her email, but I couldn't do it.

Now he has learned (once again, from me--unfortunately--but it was only a matter of time) about free online e-mail. I know that he has gotten a Yahoo box, so now there is no way for me to check what kinds of stuff he is sending from our computer and to whom. He still frequently gets up in the middle of the night, and always changes screens when I walk in the room, but he is faster than I am, and always feigns ignorance.

I agree with you, that this is a miserable way to live. But short of proof of infidelity, I don't believe in leaving him (personal ethics). I hate living like this, I constantly feel paranoid, I am frequently angry (at other times, I am surprisingly calm about the whole thing and just able to laugh it off and roll my eyes). But I just wanted you to know that someone is living a parallel life!!

holly

September 9, 2001
8:01 pm
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scorned
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I might add that you can check to see if he has other ID's that are used on your computer. Look in your Program Files folder and see if there is a Yahoo folder. IT is there if you have Yahoo Messenger or Companion. Click on Yahoo if it is there, then click on profiles. It will list all profiles used on that computer to instant message. I did this one time, I might add, and my ID was not there. This was after I had re-installed Yahoo. Make sure to check all the folders under yahoo to make sure there aren't any files without folders. That is how I found one of mine.

See, I told you I make a better detective than he EVER will!

September 10, 2001
10:58 am
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sue2001
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well I just looked the corners of our computer and while looking for one thing I found alot of other things.... BEWARE looking into it... It may not be what you want to look at!!! I mean it... every thing that I have wondered about with him are true....... HE IS BI CURIOUS AND HE IS PLANNING ON MEETING SOMEONE IN REAL TIME (A woman) So I am just saying that you may not want to know what you think you might....

September 10, 2001
2:02 pm
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pill
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Man... is it just in America that porn is such a deviant? If w'e're more accepting to the little idiosyncracies about sex, the curiosities... would people feel the need to sneak around?

Not that I'm condoning child porn, or anything dealing with hurt, pain, and destruction...

And, hoping not to offend anyone here... just know the experience, and wonder if there will ever be a solution...

September 10, 2001
2:19 pm
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gingerleigh
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Interesting point, Pill. What do most counselors say about porn? Is it considered "healthy"? Or is it an indication of an imbalance? And where do you draw the line between someone getting off on "impersonal" porn and internet affairs?

September 10, 2001
2:34 pm
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pill
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I don't know, but it really sucks that people think because it all on the computer, that it isn't "REAL". IT IS REAL. Philosophers... lend me your ears. If we think about a tree, is it real? Or, is our thinking about it bringing it into our minds?

If people think that by skating around in a porn site, then turning off their computers means it never happened - think again! Same thing for online affairs. If it happened - it happned - irregardless of the fact that he/she touched he/she.

September 11, 2001
8:22 am
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sue2001
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I am upset by what I found I am hurt.. I don't understand why he would do that to me.... I am an open person I wouldn't have just turned my back on him 7 years ago when we met. I would not have married him either but that is something that he should have told me ... that is like someone selling you a car knowing that something was wrong with it without telling you... he done himself wrong too.. he has wasted all of this time with me when he could have been with someone that would like that sort of lifestyle....

September 11, 2001
12:59 pm
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gingerleigh
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Sue, it hurts, believe me I know. Right down to the bi-curious and meeting someone online in real life.

Rewrite that sentence to read not about him but about you... "I could have been with someone that would have been good to me and treated me with the respect that I so deserve."

What are you thinking now?

September 11, 2001
2:27 pm
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pill
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Acceptance means you can now move on.

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