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on scapegoating
April 12, 2003
1:09 pm
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Eve,

Thanks so much for your words ! I do not think I'm capable of having "healthy fights" most of the time, for a number of reasons and a number of childhood traumas. Everything you describe is just what I'd like to reach some day. Sometimes I can, but many times I know, like you mention, what is bothering me when it's too late and I've already been bitchy without knowing why or because I didn't know how to handle it or if I was entitled to my position in the conflict or if I had a chance to be heard and understood by the other person. I swallow a lot for fear of rejection and of appearing too harsh, and I teach the other person that I am very "easy". Then I react unnicely one day, or I just leave. Often I try to solve it calmly and without blaming the other person, but by that time the other is already too used to my being accomodating and swallowing my needs, so they are shocked, inconvenienced, etc. and often react in a way that is cruel to me. Boundaries and self-assertion, in my case, need to come from deep inside, otherwise they don't work. When I feel entitled inside, I usually am respected. But those things I don't feel entitled to or I'm insecure about, even when I try to assert myself, don't get respected...

I hadn't thought of men being apprehensive of uncertainty...may be true.

April 16, 2003
9:54 pm
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Hey Mafi, How can these people be nice if they are abusive to you. I bet you that they are really not that nice to other people.

April 17, 2003
12:31 am
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David, you might have a super good point there... ever notice people who are able to be super kind to complete strangers, yet are abusive to those close to them? "We only hurt the ones we love..."

April 17, 2003
3:33 am
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You two are very right, that happens a lot too. But since this happens in ALL my relationships with human beings, I understand that there is an unhealthy pattern in me at play.

Lately I have been becoming more aware of how my body language and tone of voice, as well as what I say and do, reveal my insecurity and probably teach others to relate to me in a less than respecting way.

April 17, 2003
8:41 am
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Ginger, You are right. It is much easier to hurt the ones we love only because we trust and feel safe with them. Mafi, maybe they know you wont leave them. The next time if they disrespect you, walk away, show them you are better then that. They will say Hmmmmm, I better not do that again. I have been there on both sides. It is better to be respected. Try it. Walk away, open the door and keep walking, it is almost a turn on, somebody that knows themselves.

April 17, 2003
10:16 am
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David,

That's what I've been doing in the last two-three years. And it does get me instant respect. All the acquaintances I have today are friends from my past whom I left at some point because I felt very disrespected by them. When I left they started respecting me. Today I don't try to get as close to them as we were once, and I am not as nice and loving and giving as I was once, and they respect me very much. The moment I start caring, people start to disrespect me. I think that my kind of caring must be self-defeating. When I care, I am almost always available and approachable. The moment I start being almost always available and approachable, the respect diminishes a lot and the demands and criticism of my personality grow very much. Usually the friendship becomes one where I do most of the accomodating while the other grows more and more "too busy with other more important stuff". The moment I distance myself they start calling a lot more and accomodating much more. It seems like I have to play hard to get in order to have good friendships, but it only SEEMS so. I think it's not that I have to play hard to get but that I have to learn to love others in a more self-loving way...

April 17, 2003
11:44 am
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It happens in relationships too, and there are volumes of books and articles written on it. "Taking someone for granted" I believe is the unofficial title of the phenomenon. *grin* It's human nature.

In a way, I'm kind of right where you are Mafi, in my relationship with my boyfriend. The relationship is good, we treat each other well and with respect in most situations, but now that I'm always available, there is much less effort on his part to plan things in advance. I'm left waiting around for him to have time for me. The solution? Fill up my calendar with other activities and other friends, and now rather than me presenting him with my calendar and asking him to fill it up, I'm going more for the angle of him wanting to find time on my calendar. I haven't done much with that yet, but I think that approach will make both of us much happier.

April 17, 2003
11:57 am
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Ginger,

I'm going through the same with this guy. He's almost always too busy to meet with me (busy with his other social engagements). But in my case (I have tried it) it's no use to fill my calendar, it doesn't help. The problem is deeper. It's my being deeply attached to a person that makes them take me for granted. However "busy" I may be, the image I project is of being always available (probably dependent). That's why I have started to work on my attachment style.

Funny thing is, the only way that I can become independent and enjoy my life without being always waiting and available to those I love, is when I feel secure in that attachment, when I sense they're as there for me and interested in the relationship as I am. That's also the reason why people take ME for granted. It works like this: they feel very secure in my being there and interested, which makes them feel happier and stronger in their lives, which helps them become more independent and secure to try and develop new things, which in turns makes them less available for me...!!!

As I write this, I feel so much pain !

November 6, 2004
9:04 am
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mafi

am not sure if you like to talk some more about this topic - perhaps no more discussion is wanted or needed - but I'll give it a shot anyway -

I have been reading your postings here - albeit one year later - and your insights - all things you have been saying here about yourself - strike me as amazingly powerful.

your last posting puzzles me to a certain extent (makes me smile !) - cause it's actually - as I understand it - telling me a story of someone - you ! - working towards - and making herself - kinda superfluous in a relationship. In the sense that people you consider to be your friends (I sincerely hope they are), appearantly don't 'need' you anymore. Your - self-imposed ? - 'job' is done. A closed 'deal' - so it seems.

Now - if you can help them become more independent and secure - SO or THAT well - it should be an easy task to accomplish the same for yourself - do you feel this could be true?

If not - can you identify what it is that's holding you back or impeding you ?

also - what is it that you like to do - or - not do - if or when you wanna be available for - just and only - you?

and - my next remark probably will make you wanna laugh your head off - cause it may seem like it's forcing an 'open door' - but seriously - all things considered - why do you want them to be 'available' ?????

- that's what I am curious about.

The pain you were feeling then and maybe now (a year later)too - is it really about them - or - about you ?

*stay cool*

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