Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
OK HERE GOES....
July 21, 2005
11:31 am
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yesterday I took my 7 year old and his classmate to Six Flags over GA. We had free tickets, or I wouldn't have gone because my son tends to have outbursts when he doesn't get his way. .....Anyway, the reason I am posting is because of the outbursts.

When we first got there, we were meeting a friend of mine and her 3 year old daughter. We arrived first and my friend called the cell to say she had just paid parking and would meet us at the entrance soon. The park wasn't too crowded and we probably had time to go do a ride. My son started fussing loudly that he didn't want to wait for my friend, he wanted to ride a ride. We started walking to the Log flume, while walking he continued to fuss. I said we were going to do one ride and then come back to meet S. He continued to fuss. I then said if he continues, we will not ride and go back and wait for S. He continued, so we walked back. I just ignored him, he eventually calmed down. I told him if he had more "meltdowns" ....i can't remember the consequence i said. Soooo we went on and things went smoothly for a while, He had another fit when we went for lunch. He wanted a nugget meal. Plus he wanted a big souveiner cup. I am on a tight budget, so I order a tenders meal we could share and got him the big cup. I try not to spoil him by giving him everything he wants. I thought it through, and it was cheaper to get what I did, he yelled and screamed that he wanted the nugget meal. I ignored him. He continued. Finally, I told him that he wanted the cup. He couldn't have both, that the tender meal was the same if not better than the nuggets. He continued. Then I told him that I would get the nugget meal which was 5 dollars but that meant he couldn't play a game later. He calmed down and made the choice to eat what he had so he could later play the game.

Meltdown #2: We were wet, tired and hot by this time. We were riding the train. It began to rain hard. The friend of my son wanted to ride the sky bucket, my son began saying, very loudly, he didn't want to ride the buckets, over and over and over.....I ignored him, he kept on, the rain came down harder. The train stopped at the station, we made a dash for the station house where I thought we would wait until it stopped. My son began screaming and screaming, jumping up and down, up and down, that he wanted to go home, that the rain would never stop, he wanted to go to the car. Nothing I said could stop this tirade. He kept on and on to the point of losing his voice. I know this must have gone on at least 15 minutes! I did everything I could to stop it. I told him to calm down, I got in his face and told him the rain would stop soon and we would go. I told him if he continued he would go home, go to his room and be grounded from tv. NOTHING WORKED. He kept saying the rain would never stop! I honesty think he was afraid the rain wouldn't stop and somehow we wouldn't be able to get home.

Well, the rain did slow down. I took his hand and we began walking to the car. He calmed down and started thanking me for taking them to the park, blah, blah,blah,etc.

While we were walking I told him how unacceptable his behavior was. That I wouldn't tolerate it, etc. We got in the car, ......

The friend was going to be at my house until 6:30, I told my son he could play with him until he went home, then his punishment would begin.

I stuck to this. At 6:30 the friend went home. My son begged to stay outside to play with friends 10 more minutes. I said NO. Bath and bed... He had a meltdown, but not as bad. By this time it is 7:30 and he is in bed, not happily, but there.

I talked with him again how this was unacceptable behavior, that he was too old to be throwing tantrums when he didn't get his way....

He is not allowed to watch tv for 7 days. He cannot go in a friends house and watch either.

I know I have to be consistent. Is he doing all this because I haven't been?

He is adopted. He has been with me since he was 7 months old. He was abandoned, left alone to be found by police. We don't know how long he was alone, but it wasn't more than 9 hours, more than likely 6 or 7. He has always had temper tantrums. I need help. I have had him in counceling from school. He was diagnosed ADD at one time, but I do not agree. I know he is a boy and boys are loud and like to run around. He does not display any of this behavior at school. It is only with me.

I could add a lot more, but if anyone is taking the time to read all this, I know you have had enough at this time.

PLEASE, SOMEBODY, GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS AND ANY ADVICE YOU CAN!!!!!

I am a single mom, have been since I adopted him. I want to raise him right with strong values, morals and the capability to make wise decisions. Help.

Hope

July 21, 2005
12:30 pm
Avatar
thewall
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hope.

If he was ADD he wouldnt be able to turn his temper tantrums off and on like he does. If he only does this while you're around, then guess what? He knows he can get away with it with you.

If his temper tantrums didnt work, he would stop them, but sometimes they work with you and sometimes they dont. Its like a lottery with him. He never knows when they will work so he figures, what the heck, I'll give it a shot and see how far I can go with this.

Adoption isnt the issue, neither is ADD. Consistant parenting is. And you are creating a monster if you don't become consistant. Thats the tough part.

Its hard to be consistant when it would be easier to give in. Its hard to allow the tantrums to work when you are tired and don't want him to embarrass you. Be consistant anyway. Otherwise he learns that he only got in trouble for throwing a fit bc mommy was tired, instead of learning that his behaviors are inappropriate.

There is an old saying that goes something like this: "it takes a village to raise a child."
You can't expect to know everything there is to know about parenting or the situations that come up with it. You need to get parenting counseling for yourself in order to help your child. Maybe there is a parenting class in your community or a local church or mental health center. Look for something to help you.

Also, Dr Phil has some excellent tips on parenting on his shows so begin taping them and putting into practice the advice he offers parents who are in a similar situation as you.

A local child psychiatrist once said to me "If you want to know how your kid will act when he/ she is 16, look at how he acts when he is 2 and 3 and this will tell you everything you need to know." In other words, better get a handle on it now, before its too late.

good luck to you. You've made a big step in the right direction by asking for help. Good job.

thewall

July 21, 2005
1:06 pm
Avatar
kc30
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh my! Kids can test us, can't they? It doesn't sound like ADD or anything serious to me...just a little boy who's looking for control! Classic power struggle...

My daughter is younger than your son- she's 4- but she does go through tantrum spells as well. It's like she's just testing to see what she can and can't get away with. It sounds like your son is doing the same thing...he's just trying to get his way. Who can blame him? We all want our own way, right?

When he realizes there are consequences to his behaviour, he will learn to make better choices. That's what I've been doing with her...I spell out very clearly what the bad choice is she's making, what a good choice would be, and what the bad consequence will be if she doesn't adjust herself. One night, it was not reading a story as we do every night, and I stuck to it.

Now, before she starts, I calmly (with the patience of Job! LOL) have the conversation with her about bad choices and bad consequences. I explain that I am fully prepared to read a story and let her keep her ponies (for example) UNLESS she makes a bad choice...so it's up to her- she has the power to control what will happen next.

In the end with the nuggets thing...he got his way. So it is likely he'll keep trying, just to see if he can do it again. I have found that I have to pick my battles VERY wisely....in that case, if you had agreed to the nuggets when he asked at first, and explained that he would need to give something up in exchange, it wouldn't have been a power struggle. But once you said no, then relented, even with the consequence, he may think it was his bad behaviour that got him his way?

Pick your battles, be consistent and follow through, even in the face of a meltdown.

Personally, although they drive me nutty, tantrums don't bother me too much as long as she does what she's been told. She doesn't have to be happy about it, but she needs to do it.

I put limits on what is acceptable when she's upset though. Crying is fine. Screaming, hitting, throwing, spitting etc...not acceptable.

Dr Phil has a style he calls "commando parenting" and it works! I did it with her last year- she was in a really bad tantrum phase (biting, hitting, screaming etc) I tore her world DOWN. Took every toy, decoration, and fun thing from her room. She had to earn them back with appropriate behaviour. She had been acting out at daycare. After that first day of stripping it down, we have never had another episode at daycare again. Perfect angel...gets stickers for being so good!! She still test me by times, but knows the consequence...I will take something away. And I give her the chance to adjust her behaviour first. Usually works, but not without tears and "you're not my best friend anymore!" first! LOL

I agree with you about him being too old for tantrums too. Maybe someday when things are calm, explain to him again about what is and isn't acceptable. And explain what the consequence will be. If that isn't enough to deter him, maybe you haven't found his "currency"- but there is SOMETHING in his life that he has that is worth behaving for! When you find that, and take it away, he'll understand that mommy can tear his world DOWN! haha

Hope this helps! I think your situation sounds very normal. Single moms tend to be harder on themselves I find...but these are the issues that all moms, married or single are dealing with...

How do I discipline? How do I teach my child inner discipline. How do I help them learn to get along appropriately in the world?

kc

July 21, 2005
1:24 pm
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Hoping...

I am quite new to the board (1st day) and dealing with my own 'bad' behavior, however I wanted to reply to perhaps give you some more information to consider and get a better handle on the situation, as I am sure is quite exhausting and distressing.

I'm a psychiatrist by the way, however please understand that I am NOT giving you advice/diagnoses, but rather only possible reasons or hypotheses for his behavior.

Anyway, it may be helpful to look up the literature on reactive attachment disorder (RAD). You may want to Google it or go to Amazon.com. They have several good books.

It is not too unusual for those who are adopted to have difficulty with bonding... attachment... and frontal lobe development.

These children are often misdiagnosed as ADHD b/c the dysregulation difficulties they exhibit appear similiar. Here are a few books I have recommended to patients and then there are a couple of texts I have read myself in the past as a resource and may be a tougher read if you don't have a background in neurology/psychology/ psychiatry (Allan Schore text). However, you may want to read the Schore text anyway, b/c it discusses the importance of the external environment on emotional and cognitive regulation. It discusses how various mental illnesses result in poorly developed frontal functions and its' subsystems.

Here are the book titles and authors:

More Than Love: Adopting and Surviving Attachment Disorder Children
by Sherril M., Ph.D. Stone, Sherril M., Phd Stone

Handbook for Treatment of Attachment - Trauma Problems in Children by Beverly James

Attaching in Adoption: Practical Tools for Today's Parents by Deborah D. Gray

Attachment, Trauma, and Healing: Understanding and Treating Attachment Disorder in Children and Families by Terry M. Levy

Affect Regulation and the Origin of the Self: The Neurobiology of Emotional Development by Allan N. Schore

You may want to take him to a pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist, however know that all professionals are not created equally and may not have a clue as to how help you or even diagnose it. Also, be aware that there are some treatment approaches that are controversial (i.e., holding therapy). I personally am not comfortable with that mode of treatment, however you and you physician can decide what is best to help him. Your window of opportunity is short...... in a few years it will be extremely difficult to do anything about these offensive behaviors ... and then they will not only hurt you (emotionally)...but also him and then society.
I hope this is helpful. Hang in there. Do not assume it is you.... you are not the cause. Good luck with him.

I hope this information helps. Take good care of yourself. BTW, if this is RADS, you may consider joing a message board or support group that can also give you some support as you deal with the daily behavior. Here is an info site http://www.RadKid.org

Regards,
Sophia Lynn

July 21, 2005
1:40 pm
Avatar
jamaicanwife
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My son is six, and he used to carry on as though I was trying to kill him. I didn't get the idea from Dr. Phil, it came from a child care book I have, but I did the same thing that kc did. I got a box, and I packed every toy he had away. It worked, and then I started learning to recognize when I was being inconsistent.

It hurts me more than it hurts him, but I had to learn that my 'no' had to stand. Because it was so hard to do, I focus on making sure that when I do say no, I absolutely mean it. No fries because I can't afford them means no fries, and if he throws a fit, then I move on to step 2 - do you want anything at all? Because we can just go home now. That usually shuts him up, but I've been using it for years now. And I mean it when I say it.

I don't have to buy him anything, he can go home and have a peanut butter sandwich and a nap. I am not obligated to stay at an amusement park if his behaviour is spoiling it for everyone. Neither are you.

July 21, 2005
3:22 pm
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you for your responses. We just got back from the pool. It was beginning to storm. He said, lets go home now. I asked if he was afraid, he said yes.

Could the outburst during the rainstorm at the park be a panic attack?

Regardless....
thewall: you are so right, it is like a lottery. I try and try to be consistent and think that I am, but probably do give in when I am tired etc. I really do not get embarrassed when he does this in public. I just am at wits end to know how to deal with it because at home I would walk away from him.

As to a parenting class, I could try that, to me that would be embarrassing. I have am undergraduate and Master's degree in Early Childhood Education and have taught kindergarten since 1988! I can handle a classroom of unruly 5 year olds with no problem, I can even help parents with similiar issues, I just can't seem to practice what I preach.

kc30: I will try what you said about the choices. I do do this but maybe again, I am not consistent. I needed to hear that I am normal and these situations happen to normal children.

Sophia-Lynn: Thank you, thank you. I am so glad you responded. He has been to a pediatric psychologist. He is the one who diagnosed ADHD. I haven't visited the website you recommended yet, but could that be the case if he was so young when I got him? I have told and told my friends that I think he can remember the feeling of abandonment. When he was little (and sometimes still) he has to know where I am at all times, has a fear that I will forget him if he has to wait somewhere while I am on errands, at work etc. I will say this has somewhat diminished, but he still wants to know where I will be at all times.

I will visit the website, and get some of the books you recommend, thanks!

Again, could this still be a problem even though he was an infant when it happened. Now I am really worried!

I know I have to get a handle on it now, before he gets too much older.

jamaicanwife: Thank you for your advise. I have tried the toy thing, it works sometimes and others he says he doesn't care, he didn't like the toys anyway.

I would have left the park sooner if we didn't have his friend with us and I felt it wasn't fair to punish him for my child's behavior. And yes, we did leave the park after his "rain" episode.

Thanks again everyone,

Hope

BTW I really want to be a good mom and not raise a juvenile delinquent.

July 21, 2005
4:57 pm
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

To answer your question, "YES".... Reactive attachment disorder is strongly related to infancy. Here is a definition I copied from Medline:

Definition

"Reactive attachment disorder is a disturbance of social interaction caused by neglect of a child's basic physical and emotional needs, particularly during infancy.

Babies placed in orphanages at birth and raised by multiple caretakers without primary parent-figures can also develop this disorder, even if physical care was adequate.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Reactive attachment disorder is caused by neglect of an infant's needs for physical safety, food, touching, and emotional bonds with a primary and/or secondary caretaker.

The risk of neglect to the infant or child is increased with parental isolation, lack of parenting skills, teen parents, or a caregiver who is mentally retarded. A frequent change in caregivers (e.g., occuring in orphanages or foster care) is another cause of reactive attachment disorder.

Children adopted from foreign orphanages are commonly affected, particularly if they were removed from their birth parents during the first weeks of life. "

Thus as you can see it does not require an individual be older and have the cognitive processes to understand neglect or that they were abandoned. Those processes are not necessary, as the development of the brain requires certain interactions from a mother figure for proper functioning at that point. Obviously a neglected child would not receive those interactions (this is detailed in the Schore text).

I know this is a difficult condition. My niece has RADS. Unfortunately my sister strongly neglected her her first 7 months of life. The courts took my niece away and hence I have her. I figured that since I got her so young that my parenting would make it all okay. But it hasn't. Believe me, I understand consistency... human development, etc. It has made a tremendous difference in that I know how to respond to her, however it has not completely abolished the behaviors. She has an anger in her.... rather a rage that is still not extinguished. Believe me I know that she is doing better than would she likely would have been with my sister, however this poor kid is greatly affected by those first several months of her life of neglect.

Again, I don't know for sure if your son's difficulties are at a level of some pathology (RADS), however it could be, if it has a professional diagnosing him as ADHD (which is commonly a misdiagnoses for RADS for psychologists/psychiatrists now well trained in all the developmental disorder).

The thing Hoping is that if this is RADS, you will find all the regular parenting approaches will be helpful, however it WON'T be enough. These are wounded, hurt children and thus THAT issue has to be addressed for their healing and not simply behavior modification techniques. You will be doing a disservice to use Dr. Phil's techniques (meant for nontraumatized children likely) to help your son. So, again I stress that you should get him checked out just to be sure you're on the right track and providing the right approach.

Please keep us posted.

Regards,
Sophia

July 21, 2005
5:36 pm
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I went to the web site and he does have some of the behaviors listed.

The parent who abandoned him was his 16 year old mother, so what you said about lack of care ie, neglect, could account for his behaviors.

I am in the process of looking into this further. I have a group meeting tonight and will ask for some input.

Even though I am scared, I am glad that I wasn't crazy when I thought there was a deeper problem. I will keep you posted.

Hope

July 22, 2005
7:21 am
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

SL, and anyone else interested,

I feel a little better now that I have rested. I want the best for my son as does everyone with children. I will not "beat myself up" for ways I have handled some situations. I am doing the best I can.

I have to go back to work today, summer break is over for me. I will talk to the school counselor for help and the name of some therapists.

I have read some about RAD, and although he does exhibit a lot of the traits, he doesn't seem as "bad" as some.

More later....I'm late for work.

Hope

July 22, 2005
11:18 am
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh Hoping (smile)...you sound like a great mom. Heck I wish I had someone like you when I was a child. You are definitely demonstrating an interest, concern, love for your son so that both he and you can feel better and he can get the best opportunity to function as a well adjusted adult.

Glad to hear that he doesn't hit the mark strongly with RADS. There may be a component related to his infancy that needs to be addressed, however if his symptoms are mild, then that makes all soooooo much easier and the picture MUCH brighter.

Have fun in school!!!!

Take care,
Sophia

July 23, 2005
4:12 pm
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you, Sophia for your kind words. I really needed a "warm fuzzy".

I spoke with the school psychologist and she is gathering information for me.

I have found a forum dealing with RAD children. I have "spoken" to a few families about issues and support groups.

Just reading some of the information has enabled me to approach some situations differenly these past 2 days. I do realize I cannot do it without help.

I guess all my other "issues" of codependency and being an adult child of alcoholics will be put on the back burner for now. I sure couldn't handle a relationship while this is going on.

I guess God knew what he was doing when my forthcoming marriage was ended 2 years ago. Now, I will just wait to see what happens. I know I won't be looking for it.

I am so glad you found me, Sophia.

Love,
Hope

July 25, 2005
7:56 am
Avatar
kc30
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hope
I find that it is very helpful for me to know that other parents experience the exact same types of issues and problems with their children as I do.

I have a number of friends with children around the same age as my own, and I always feel so much better after sharing with them...because they say "Oh yeah...mine did that, and then they did this and this!"

I overanalyze everything because I am a single mom, and I am so afraid that adult issues have scarred my children. What a relief it's been to know that children from "normal" families act out the same way mine do!

Helps to ease some of the guilt and pressure I feel.

I think your son is normal, and you're doing a great job! I understand how it feels to second guess things, so if you ever just want to vent, please feel free to come and find me here! I'd be happy to tell you you're NORMAL!:)

KC

July 25, 2005
12:50 pm
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LOL (Smile) KC30, looks like you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this. I hope that Hoping finds the middleground or actual condition (if there is even a condition at all) and move forward empowered and educated.

I think she'll figure it out with the input of well experienced professionals in the field. I do however steer away from minimizing things and telling one it is normal when it may not be and hence she misses her window of opportunity to do anything about it. It's a lot tougher to use certain strategies with a 14 or 15 yr old teen.

Anyway, just some friendly disagreement.

Hoping---- there are a couple of fun games that have really really helped my niece. It has nothing to do with a diagnoses of RADS or ADHD or whatever, but made for any kid who has some trouble with regulation of mood, emotions, behavior, etc.

Go to http://www.childswork.com.

There they have lots of therapy games. I bought a couple of the games related to expressing your anger...... impulse control..... telling your feelings. She loves the games because she gets all this time with me, but also it gives her the tools when she gets in her grumppy moods and becomes difficult. Plus I think they are loads of fun (hmmmmm this company should pay me for this free advertisement). LOL

Hope they help..... also, I do know exactly what KC means with the doubting and fearing about our children's outcomes. I worry all the time that my niece will end up with issues like me and it scares me.... I overanalyze too (hence my profession). But you know what we have that our parents likely lacked is insight into our patterns.... a very strong love for our children that we are not afraid to show... and compassion.

I LOVE my niece to death and as she is learning how to cope with her emotions she is becoming so much happier and that is something I love to see.

Take care,
Sophia (sneaking a break from work)

July 25, 2005
1:33 pm
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

....oh- sorry this may be a better link

http://sales.guidancechannel.c.....arketplace

then click on the catelog that says childswork childsplay.

July 25, 2005
4:47 pm
Avatar
hoping_2_feel_again
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Guys,

I am only on for a minute, will be back later.

I just wanted to thank you kc, It is hard to be a single mom, always second guessing yourself, isn't it. I will be back often to talk.

SL I have been on the web almost constantly. I have found a lot of information on behaviors for attachment issues. IMHO he does have a mild (if there is one) case. He exhibits almost all of the characteristics except, he is a very loving child and always has been. I am getting in touch with a friend of a friend who can help me make the connections I need to figure this out.

I am really sad right now. A coworker was riding a 4 wheeler on Sunday, it wreaked and she died today. 27 years old with a year old baby. It is soooo unbelieveable.

more later,

Hope

July 25, 2005
10:21 pm
Avatar
Sophia_Lynn
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMG so sorry.... how sad, please take care.

Sophia

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
48
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110905
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38534
Posts: 714189
Newest Members:
sendlv, ViolentFighterBrownCaveman, kbrfDazy, traceyob69, JohnMeave, EthanDiord
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer