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Oh crap!-- Through_the_fire needs words
June 18, 2008
7:32 am
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autumn128
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Hi Fire,

You said your husband has been sober for 19 years, right? You didn't know him when he had his problem all those years ago, so it would be hard for you to pick up on his addiction. The thing about pain pills is that you can't smell it on them, like alcohol, so don't question yourself on this one.

Like I said earlier, I would be strict with him, but don't beat him up too bad. None of us here know him like you do, so you know what steps need to be taken better than us.

Take care of yourself (((((Fire)))))

Autumn

June 18, 2008
8:18 am
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Fire,

I don't have a lot of experience in this arena. I've been with people who have a problem.. And, my dad continues to have a problem (alcohol). No experience with anybody who has successfully worked to overcome the problem..

The fact that Castman has been clean for 19 years puts him way ahead of his peers. And, I think it's a good sign that when he fell off the wagon, he came to you for help.. Try to focus on that thought.. Use your velvet sledgehammer to nudge him back onto the wagon..

Best of luck..

Frayed

June 18, 2008
8:29 am
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through_the_fire
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I feel so sick and gross this morning.

Let me say a few things. It was my idea to dole out the Vicodin as he knew he needed them for the pain, but was worried about the dependence factor. It did get to the point where he thought I should back off an not be in control of them, but I was a bull dog.

This is in no way saying that I am responsibie for his consequential slip.

It was one of the first things he mentioned in his confession though, and I think it gave his addict's mind an excuse to take things under "control" himself.

Overall, in life, he's at a crossroads, trying to decide whether to stay at his current line of work or move on to teaching. He is very productive (MsGuided-- your questions) at getting things done at home, and at trying to figure out what's next for work. Although the latter, I think, is biting his ass with regrets-- why didn't I switch careers before the age of 50? type of thing.

Wizard-- what have I lost as a result of this? I didn't see it coming. The man actually said stuff like, "The hand is getting better and better--" And I would say, "Yeah, just tylenol and ibuprofin, that's great." I had a red flag though-- he admitted to taking a darvocet for discomfort, after I was surprised he couldn't um, come to completion in the sexual dept (very unusual for him).

He has no sponsor, no AA connection, nothing. Now I guess I have made my suggestion/request, but I'll leave it at that. He has to decide to go. And dammit, I hope he does. Wizard, you'd ask what would make me feel safer-- that. If he went to NA or AA. But I can't control it.

And yes, Destinystar, he should have been the one to pour it down the toilet.

I told him last night that I didn't want to take the anger I felt out on him, but that I was feeling a lot of anger.

It worries the hell out of me that he doesn't want to recognize that his 19 years has been broken. He tries to distinguish it from taking a drink or scoring drugs. Arggggggghhhhh! Just because it was prescribed and he didn't use it beyond how it is prescribed. But then he'll admit it became recreational. Seeing this denial and back and forth is distubring as hell. And it isn't right that no one else knows about this, and that he is not connected to an AA / NA group, and if he doesn't go to one, he can just keep pretending.

Wizard-- I don't think this will go into crisis-- but who knows? Right now my trust has been broken, and it's hard to answer that. I have felt such confidence in him-- and I don't think naive confidence in him. I don't know the insurance details offhand.

Anyway, for now. Thanks so much. I have to see where an ALAnon meeting is in my town.

Fire

June 18, 2008
8:52 am
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lovin life
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(i haven't read all the responses yet)

my stbx has 4.5 years clean...drug of choice cocaine (crack at the end). he still goes to 2 meetings a week.

my brother-in-law is 25 years sober...alcoholic. for years he attended meetings. he hasn't, though, for many years. his wife is not concerned about it because it has been so long.

my stbx had surgery on his shoulder a month ago. he told the doctor about his addiction. the doctor said "don't worry about it, i've never had anyone become addicted to the painkillers". WHAT AN ASSHOLE!!! how would he even know what happened to his patients?!? the ortho surgeon barely even has follow-up visits. anyway, my ex was taking oxycontin. since pills are not his drug of choice, he wasn't too worried...only a little about maybe the dopimine effects could trigger a past sensation that could have him craving coke. since i am not living with him i don't really know how he handled it. he seems very normal when i see him and talk to him. all i can do is hope for the best.

with cast man...in retrospect can you see how the drugs affected him? more than just the average non-addicted person? sometimes it is hard to differentiate because of course someone is going to be crabby and out-of-sorts anyway because they are injured and in pain.

hope all goes well.....((fire))

June 18, 2008
9:21 am
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ndlv2
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((((fire)))) you shouldn't feel sick or gross you are going to meeting right? I know on intervention they say it is the addicts recovery I think that's what Celtic meant by going on and on about it. IMO you should explain that the trust is broken it has been many years but that you go to meetings to support his sobriety (I hope you go to allnon) and that in order to rebuild the trust you need (not want) for him to go to a meeting (or a few) and talk with his doctor untill the pain is managable with just tylenol! Well that's my three cents hope it helps take care I wish you well I will pray for you keep posting and take care of YOU:-)!

June 18, 2008
9:47 am
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Dear Through, I don't think your husband broke his sobriety myself. I bet anybody sitting in a AA meeting that has been through surgery and got a medication has taken more than they were suppose to. That is what the they will do. It is normal. It is not like he got drunk and he did tell you this. I think sometimes that honest thing is over rated. Castman knows he took too many pills.......but I admire him for realizing this. I am sure it scrared him........but to go in to am AA meeting and tell everyone he slips after surgery.........after being sober 19 years would be a hard deal for him. I mean really..........hope he starts going back to meetings.......but I know that everyone in that AA meeting would do the same thing if givin a chance or has all ready. I give castman a pat on the back for asking for you to help him with the meds.....and being honest with you. (((((braceman))) (((through))) Love, horsefly

June 18, 2008
9:49 am
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lovin life
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my ex is keeping his sobriety date. he was very worried that taking the narcotics should reset his date...but he talked to his sponsor and others in the program and they assured him that painkillers necessary after surgery would not be considered a relapse.

June 18, 2008
9:53 am
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through_the_fire
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Let out some steam with Brace Man this morning regarding the broken trust. I didn't buy his minimizing stuff either...just two weeks, not every day. Breaking sobriety is breaking sobriety-- you can't be a little pregnant!

When I said he doesn't seem to be admitting it was a problem. He said he knew it was, and that's why he got rid of the stuff. When I asked him why he had me do it-- he should have done it himself-- he said he was going to do so, without even letting me in on the whole thing, but thought that was a big mistake.

Then I said something like why don't you admit that you're powerless to this, he said, "If I were truly powerless, it would still be in the house." He's listening respectfully and trying to let me vent without butting in, but he has real "that's that" attitude. He keeps emphasizing how he got rid of everything, and while my confidence is understandably shaken in him, he wants me to recognize that. And I do.

Last winter when I had a horrible cough and the doctor gave me cough syrup with codeine, the bottle was just sitting there in the medicine cabinet. He took me aside and said I should remove it from the cabinet, as he just didn't want it staring at him every time he went to get his razors.

I told him I don't want to be the only one who knows about the slip. He's going to talk to his best buddy, his sister.

Fire

June 18, 2008
10:08 am
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_anonymous
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Fire- One thing us codependents do especially me is spend more damn time on our drug addicted/alcohlic husbands problems then we do on our own. Remember the more we try to focus on them it takes away from fixing ourselves. The more we do for them (enabling) the less motivated they are to take responsiblity for and fix themselves.

You could just confront him about his problem and ask him an open ended question in regards to what he plans to do about his problem?

I always tell my husband that I am not the one who has to live with his damaged brain and liver not to mention criminal record. He does.

I also remind him that I dont have to stay and subject myself to his destructiveness.

My husband and I are going to see a psychologist for marital counseling today.

June 18, 2008
10:35 am
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through_the_fire
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Destinystar,

I agree-- this is not my problem to fix, but his. I said that to him. You see, he thinks since he admitted to the problem, and got rid of the pills, his problem is over. Perhaps. But I can't convince him to go to AA or NA; he needs to willingly see the need and go himself.

Fire

June 18, 2008
10:37 am
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through_the_fire
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He's busying himself cleaning the house now. Maybe it's a metaphor...

Fire

June 18, 2008
11:51 am
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through_the_fire
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(((Horsefly)))

I missed your post....I can see your point, except for the seeking out the hidden Vicodin and calling in for another prescription. He said, he had two guys in him: the addict said, "Yeah yeah, you need this, you've been in pain." and the other guy who said, "Hey this is screwed up. What are you doing?" He almost just got rid of the pills on his own, but thought he had to come clean with me.

There was definite slippage. A slip caught by the one-handed man. But a slip nevertheless.

He knows I'm on here, and thinks my getting support is good. He was curious though what people thought. I'm trying to keep my privacy, while still discussing some of the thinking brought up here.

Fire

June 18, 2008
12:24 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Oh I see, we are sneaking around? Just Kidding........ but we are not sneaking to the doctor and renewing a prescripts are we. Yes, I get it. This is the problem. Not sure what he was doing before......he stayed sober so yes this would be considered a big red flag. But I am still not so convinced he should go into a meeting and confess to this yet. Because of the feedback he will get and all. This should be his own decision and he does not have to rush into making it.....the poor guy has been through hell........Love, horsefly

June 18, 2008
12:28 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Through, Of course I could be a little bias coming from the horsegirl that wore a brace/claw for a year and till has too sometimes....((((through ))))

June 18, 2008
12:44 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Through, I am removing my situation for a moment........I live in chronic pain of some formm or another with my injury. I don't take pain pills ....unless I can afford them or need them. Because I found out I could not take them 24 hours a day. Nor could my stomach handled them........The last time I had a precription was last year and I really need a pain pill today ....but I will deal with it .

The only reason I hesitate about this lose of his sobriety.......is because he was on so much meds that he was probably addicted to them , and then was not thinking straight when he felt like he needed them and acted so desperate. The doctors had him on these meds for a reason....he was in pain. So his thinking was not clear when he made these decisions to sneak around. Anybody in AA has done this, I am telling you. Because that is the nature of the beast. He is still probably not thinking clear until the meds leave his system. That is why he needs time before to clear his head up. The fact is he did not go out and score these drugs, that messed his head up and caused the bad thinking....he also told you what was up............that is great in itself.....he must really love you. Love, horsefly

June 18, 2008
3:23 pm
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through_the_fire
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(((Horsefly)))

II get what you're saying, I do. He had told himself that he would take Vicodin a couple of days here and there, and not all day (2 doses) until he got his cast off. He recognizes he really didn't need it. But I can see, yes, he had become addicted to the shit. Case in point he wasn't even the least bit loopy like when he first had to take it after the accident. Thus I had no clue.

But to talk about my side of the street now is important. We went for a long walk on the beach, and we didn't talk about anything heavy. I noticed that when he talked about work /job possibilities, stuff like that, I was much more into thinking I had to say the right thing. I don't usually feel like that around Brace Man...I'm just natural, not measuring my words. I guess I want to detach a bit and recover my own feelings, so I don't become codep robot..:-) I feel pretty raw and deflated.

Fire

Thanks (((Horsefly))))

June 18, 2008
4:00 pm
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through_the_fire
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I just want to get out some feelings here. Brace Man is napping and I'm crying. I'm coming up against the codep wall. This is yet another opportunity to practice, to grow. Why am I crying? Is he using now? No. Does he intend to? No. Is his stopping the vicodin thing a good sign? Yes.

But I feel that stupid pain, that realization that there is nothing I can do to control what anyone chooses.

Period.

And that can be so painful. My friend S. wouldn't see the specialists she needed to (we both have/had the same chronic illness). Damn I remember being at a concert with her and every time it got quiet, I'd give her more information. She didn't do it. She died after getting off the phone with me-- believe me it wasn't anything I said. She was coming to see me for the weekend, she got off the phone, went to the kitchen to make her lunch for the next day, and died. I couldn't do a fucking thing about it.

We all have endless examples.

Brace man said that more than an AA meeting he would like to go on a 5 day silent retreat (we're Buddhists). We both had wanted to do this, but money is tight.

He's done 10 day retreats and thought I might be less nervous about 5 days. It's just next week. I don't know. Something tells me if we could swing it or if he could go, it might be just what the doctor ordered.

Money-- ugh.

Fire

June 18, 2008
4:41 pm
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(((Fire))) You express your pain very well for those on the outside like me. Our problems can be small to some but always huge for us. Your pain is genuine and I feel sorry for you. Trust is a very delicate emotion. No one should toy with that. I can see your h did it but not bc he didnt care for you, he didnt care for himself. As for help, your helping yourself is where you can help him more. Since your trust is shaken, be careful about investing money you dont have on this. I dont think things can get worse but if they did, the problem starts getting exponentially out of hand. And trust keeps suffering. Be careful with pity, anger and the bad feelings so they lead you astray. Look these feelings in the face and tell them ou are going to focus on whats positive, constructive, even if its quietly walking down the beach everytime to chill out. I guess this is 2 cents.

Just wanna add that I went to overeaters anonymous bot bc I was fat but bc my xh was and asked me to otherwise he wouldnt go. How codep is that? I tried many different diets at home and none worked. I realize I was always ashamed of my xh but I fought that while trust, respect and admiration were being sacrificed without my realizing. Obviously I had guilt added to shame bc love should/i> overcome all.

But what is love if not a bench with three legs. You decide which each leg means: friendship, passion, sex, etc. One leg goes, the others go. A Budhist retreat is great if you can afford but it also puts the solution out there when it is within the two of you to bond again and trust each other. Eventually thats what it will come to.

June 18, 2008
4:56 pm
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my opinion is that his time would be better spent figuring out his career path. addicts always want to run...not that running to a retreat is such a bad thing, but it does delay the thing he doesn't want to do....get back in the swing of real life.

if you two decide he really should go...maybe just him, not both. that would save some $$.

just my 2 cents...

June 18, 2008
5:39 pm
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(((Fire)))

I'm sorry, sweetie. It must be frightening. You've set a boundary with your mom and other family members after so many years of trying to get support from them. They have proven themselves completely unreliable, and toxic.

You have your friends, I know, but your husband is your family, your lover, your life partner. Your rock. And now, you're shaken. It brings up all of those "what if?" questions.

No, we can't control what others do. On the other hand, I agree with Sininho that the trust between the two of you needs to be rebuilt. He also needs to plan his next job move. Will he go back to the French cosmetics company? Has he sent out resumes?

You need to be able to trust him to take care of himself and to help provide for his family.

It's all still very fresh, but as I said before, you will be okay. I hope that you find a group - at least one to check out.

I still believe you two are a great couple and that you'll get through this as you've gotten through everything else so far.

Mary

June 18, 2008
5:44 pm
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through the fire- I am glad that you allow him to own up to his own issues.

See us codependents first instict is to give advice, and fix our husbands.

We must learn to undo this bad habits.

We need to sit back and ask them what they plan on doing about their issue. WHAT THEY PLAN, not want we plan or want them to plan. Then sit back and allow them to make the effort to either fix their selves or pay the consequences.

I am glad that you see that admitting to the problem and getting rid of the pills doesnt mean a damn thing.

In order to heal us Codies need to let go of what we cant control. And that is the hardest thing for us to do.

I dont know anything about silent retreats. But he doesnt sound like he acknowledges the fact that he is powerless over his addiction. So he admits hes an addict, tells you to throw away his pills, wants to go to a retreat. In addition to all of this it might help if he went to outpatient treatment or narcotics annoymous so he can re-work the program.

I am sorry that you have to go through so much pain realizing you cant control him. I keep getting stuck in the same mode.

It might help if you thought of all that you did have control over in your life. Try to cultivate relationships with healthy people to keep your sanity.

If they dont do what makes us feel comfortable or what makes us unhappy it is up to us to make our OWN PLANS.
It could be anwhere from ignoring their behavior to leaving. Our plan could be to not subject ourselves to their self destruction. Unless of course we actually enjoy being around their bullshit. And it doesnt sound like you do.

June 18, 2008
6:04 pm
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through_the_fire
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Whew-- you guys are just so wonderful!
Sininho, Lovin Life, Mary Poppins, Destinystar and all the others-- you really are something. I'll be reading this thread from start to finish later.

No retreat, because who knows what the job market is going to be out there. The French cosmetic company dumped Brace Man as soon as he injured his hand. He's excellent at his job, they loved him, but his injured hand, which can't grasp at all, is his mouse hand. So he has a couple of weeks with the brace and intensive occupational therapy. The temp agency called him for something, and rather than go into the HAND story-- things are so competitive, he doesn't want them knowing he has to get the strength back in it first-- he told them he was on a project the next couple of weeks and would be available and contacting them then. He's sent out resumes as well, hoping to take off the brace for the interview and hoping by the start date, he has the hand back. The guy has worked since he was 14 as a real diligent man. He's never seen a job situation like this one, but somehow has managed to bring it in, until this accident. It's a real blow to him, I can see that.

I told him that getting back in to work and all will be good for him. He smiled and said he thought it would be even better than a meditation retreat.

Fire

June 18, 2008
6:24 pm
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Mary, anyone,

How do you rebuild trust?

Keep it real?

Fire

June 18, 2008
7:02 pm
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Take care of you.

June 18, 2008
8:13 pm
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Fire,

Hi honey. How are You? I've been at work all day, so I am just catching up. The buddhist retreat sounds like an excellent idea, But the money situation...

If only he could land a job soon, I think it would help his self esteem.

It seems at though brace man is keeping open the lines of communication with you. That's important.

I'm sorry that this has been so emotionally draining on you. You sound like you are being very rational about the situation.

I hope he recoginizes the severity of the situation, maybe what has happened has been a kick in the butt for him to keep himself aware of his addictions and how trying times in life will stir things up.

I am thinking of you. Stay positive. You have been soooooooooo helpful to me in so many ways.

Autumn

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