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Oh crap!-- Through_the_fire needs words
June 17, 2008
9:24 pm
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through_the_fire
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Well, Cast Man is now Brace Man, and the hand is on the mend. To backtrack my husband has had 19 years of sobriety and broke his thumb badly over a month ago. So it was surgery, a series of casts and now a brace. I was in charge of the Vicodin in the beginning weeks. He was pretty diligent about not taking it too often.

So what does he tell me tonight? Last Monday, when I had to go in for a meeting, he called the doc for a prescription of Vicodin. So then he had his own stash-- and secretly. He told me tonight he'd done this, had taken it several days here, then none, then a couple of days there, then none. He requested I get rid of the Vicodin, as he acknowledges that it's obviously a problem.

I'd say so. He went behind my back, took Vicodin without my knowledge, while saying, "Gee I feel so much better than I did a month ago!"and actually started his explanation of deceit by saying, "You were so strict about giving me the Vicodin...blah blah blah." I quickly put an end to that one. But I can see that though he admits to it being a problem, he's got all this denial at the same time.

Example-- I said he needs to go to AA or NA. He was involved for many years, but doesn't really want to go to a meeting. When I said, maybe it's because people will tell you you broke your sobriety of 19 years, he said, "What's 19 years? That doesn't bother me. I broke it when I took a tiny sip of Passover wine."

I'm not bothering to proofread. Just need support and words. He's apologized, and I realize it took guts to tell me, and I recognize he told me to get rid of the shit. But it's just unnerving.

Fire

June 17, 2008
9:36 pm
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alien
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Fire-Hmmm, that's stressful and frustrating to be sure, not to mention down right scary. I think it's awesome that he realized he needed to fess up and come out. He doesn't want to go back into hell, i'm sure. I think a meeting is a great idea. Maybe squeak about that some more. They ask if anybody is coming back from a slip, he might feel wigged out about that very moment in the meeting..., among other things i'm sure. Sorry he was doing this behind your back, broken trust...But hopefully he will bear down for a few days and let his newly rekindled cravings wash over him. If he stops now, after a short slip, he should be fine... Anyways, good luck. I hope you get lots of helpful posts, i'm sure you will.

June 17, 2008
9:37 pm
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((((Fire))))

Unnerving...I guess so.

OK, the good things.. 1.he told you 2. he acknowledges he has a problem.

I'm not excusing his behavior but he did realize the problem on his own. Do you have any frineds who are active in AA or NA?? If you do perhaps you could invite them over for a BBQ or something. Just to help him remember how much meetings, and 12 steps help. Nothing need be said to them about his backslide.

I'm sure you know not to go on and on about this. But, I also am just a sure it scares the [email protected]@ out of you.

Take care my friend.

Celtic

June 17, 2008
9:47 pm
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through_the_fire
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Alien and Celtic,

Thanks, I really need support!

Celtic, what do you mean by:
"I'm sure you know not to go on and on about this."

Cause I'm talking a lot to him, and asking lots of questions? Should I not?

Fire

June 17, 2008
9:58 pm
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Celtic1
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TTF...

What I ment was nag...that never helps or solves anything. I've never been with anyone who stopped anything. The xh is still drinking and I won't go into the "N" thing. I just heard from a friend who is (NA) clean and sober 14 years that behavior means nothing to them. It only intensifies his/her behavior. I don't know about quetions. How is he behaving with the questions? Is he OK with them?

Hang in there we are here for you.

Celtic

June 17, 2008
10:10 pm
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through_the_fire
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You know Alien, I think he's wigged out about that moment too of talking about the slip. Funny, his 19th anniversary was right around when this happened. Is that significant?

Celtic-- no friends from AA or NA to invite over. Excellent idea. I think while this slip is scary as hell, it would be good for him to make connections with people at a meeting, for the support, and for the friendship factor. He only has me and his sister as close friends. And as we know, so many people party out there, so it's hard to make new friends. Maybe I'll pose his going to AA or NA as not only a good idea for him considering recent events, but also for his potential social life.

I feel so side swiped. Reakky,

Whoa.

Fire

June 17, 2008
10:26 pm
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alien
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The slip can turn into a trip if he doesn't deal with his guilt of 'over using' his prescription. That is where he doesn't need to dwell, in guilt... Just the mere act of having the courage to walk into a meeting and just deal with it..let it unfold...be real...tends to change the feeling of guilt into feelings of courage and pride(not sinful pride ;)), but it gives power back. Cause it's the powerlessness that he is bad tripping about, i think. But i am obviously only guessing, and don't really know). But i sure have been there myself, and that is how it goes for me.

About the sobriety anniversary, ya, it seems many people slip around these dates. It's like this date signifies how well you have been doing for how long...and it holds so much significance and status in a way, that the relationship with it gets weird and upsetting in a way sometimes. I can't really articulate it right now.

I'm fizzling out here. Gotta crash. I will think on all this... I feel for you, i really do. But i think it is going to work out. Good wishes to you. Goodnight, alien

June 17, 2008
10:30 pm
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through_the_fire
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Alien,

You took the words right out of his mouth. He pretty much just told me that he didn't want to emphasize what he did, but that he stopped it. Otherwise with all my questions and heavy looks, he feel more haunted and scared. And he said he doesn't want to feel that, but feel more secure that he took care of it.

Fire

June 17, 2008
10:35 pm
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alien
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((((Fire))) I think things are looking encouraging here. 🙂 Do you feel encouraged at all? Do you have faith in him? I know he hid it from you for a bit, and that was not cool and he should be sorry for that, and i think he just really might be...but that he did fess up so soon is really a good sign! Fingers crossed for you both.

June 17, 2008
10:36 pm
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WizardofAus
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Do you both still want sobriety?

Given that he 'fessed up, there is grounds for optimism that he does too. Admitting our mistake is one of the 12 steps, isn't it?

One of the roles we often take on in here is the friendly coach; lots of encouragement, try to see the situation through the eyes of the person seeking support, offering empowering strategies, etc.

Maybe that is the role you could play for him now; encouraging coach.

Ok, so he took some pills and he is as disappointed as you, right; more so maybe.

You both still have a shared goal of sobriety, right? Check it out with him and maybe sign a joint affirmation and stick it on the fridge door..."Our shared goal is sobriety. We are not going to let one week of stupidity destroy 19 years of success. We are both going to come up with creative ways of achieving another 20 years of joyful sobriety."

Then sit down and come up with ideas for achieving your goals.

As coach, part of your role could be to help him deal with his feelings of failure and stupidity that are making it really hard to go back to AA.

Maybe you could roleplay the meeting, where he gets up and tells the group what he did. You could play the role of the support group saying "well I am still here to support you; so it is not all bad."

If you are still having trouble getting past your disappointment, then please tell us some more about how you are feeling.

"God, please help us not to let the sun set on our anger."

June 17, 2008
10:44 pm
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Fire,

I think that your husband was reaching out to you, to prevent more of a problem. You are being a good wife by being supportive, but you can't let your guard down too much because you don't want him to think you view it as not a big deal.

I would play it strict, but cool with him.

I'm sure that the vicodin has been easing his pain AND his frustration of being unemployed, which i'm sure worries him.

Keep posting Fire, we are here for you.

(((Fire)))

Autumn

June 17, 2008
10:51 pm
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Celtic1
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TTF

I agree with Autumn. Also, it could be a social life. Meeting people with like minds...and problems. See what he thinks about the idea. He may be set against it. Even though you are being supportive he still the man-bonding thing dosen't he?

June 17, 2008
10:55 pm
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through_the_fire
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Yes, Alien, I do feel encouraged. Thanks. He's a guy who has been really committed to his sobriety. And WizardoAus-- thanks so much. It isn't, from what I gather from him, the shame of saying he slipped at a meeting. I take it he was involved for so many years with AA as a sponsor, on and on, that he just doesn't want to go back into it. On the other hand, he is still considering doing it anyway.

Hey Autumn....strict but cool...is that Lauren Becall? Believe me, I've been that. At one point, he said I had an Abraham Lincoln type of expression. Abe on a bad day, I take it.

Yeah, unemployment, the works. Who needs this shit?

Fire

June 17, 2008
10:57 pm
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through_the_fire
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Celtic,

I told him that I couldn't be the support that people at AA could be. Period. Of course, I'll be supportive, but the boy has got to get his own support network. I'll work on him gently, but surely. Try not to look like Abe.

Fire

June 17, 2008
10:59 pm
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Fire,

No one needs this shit. It's like a good friend of mine said to me a long time ago,

"Autumn, if life was supposed to be fun, they would call it fun."

So true.

Hang in there. Brace man is a good guy, he just took a stumble.

Autumn

June 17, 2008
11:22 pm
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through_the_fire
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Autumn,

Yeah, Brace Man is a good guy. But damn he found the vicodin I hid and took all those, then got another prescription on that day he got locked out. And when he was trying to say he took them sometimes when his hand hurt, but noticed he took it when he didn't-- and that worried him, I said, "C'mon like this was all due to pain and not wanting me controlling stuff." He said that he would take them a couple for a couple of days, then stop. I asked when he took it last, a little sheepish smile, "This afternoon." Great. Like the beach wasn't good enough on it's own?

When I said, "Why? Why'd you take it?" He said, without pulling punches, "Because I've had lots of times of the beach high, so why wouldn't I? But I knew it wasn't right."

Sigh. Life...fun...not...

Fire

June 17, 2008
11:23 pm
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_anonymous
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Fire- I broke my foot in 3 places over a year ago. The horrible pain the worst only last for 24 hours cause of the swelling from the blood being trapped the subsides. The pain decreases quickly and by a week unless the area is moved is fine. Now I am refering to a dependent weight bearing part of the body. I also bent my thumb completly backwards, and ruptured the joint. Same thing severe pain all night then it was fine in a few days. Had it casted. I used no pain meds whatsoever.

I agree your husband is abusing this med. His will to take it will be stronger than yours to not take it.

Us codies have a problem with control. Like you trying to control his dosage.

If he is back in action the only person you can control is yourself.

You can find the bottle and throw it away and also tell the doctor he is being played.

You can also tell your husband that if he admits to what is going on you will be there to support him if he is going to relapse and use again then tell him what the consequences are and follow through. This is not a grey area.

I can understand your frustration.

On Passover or Sedar (Sabbath) he can drink grape juice like the kids.

June 17, 2008
11:39 pm
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through_the_fire
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Destinystar,

Thanks, but did you read my original post? He asked me to throw it out. He came to me. I had no idea it was a problem. That's the scary part. But when someone is sneaking, how do you know? He admitted to having a problem and asked me to throw it out.

Fire

June 17, 2008
11:43 pm
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fantas
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Well, Like they say in the recovery rooms, you are only as sober as your last drink. Time, while it's commendable, really means nothing what is encouraged is diligently staying vigilant because the disease of addiction is very cunning.

It's great that he admitted his slip to you and asked that you take away all the medication. If he doesn't want to go into the meetings, he can at least call his sponsor and they can take it from there. You cannot make him do this no matter how hard you nag. If he does go because you nagged and not he doesn't realize how serious this is, he will likely not benefit much from the meetings and may slip again.

It would be great for you to go to Alanon or Naranon whether or not he goes back to the meetings. All the best to you.

June 17, 2008
11:48 pm
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WizardofAus
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Well ultimately, it is his sobriety and he has to take charge of it, which arguably he is doing.

And ultimately, you are responsible for your codependence upon his chemical abuse or sobriety.

If we call this a crisis, what if anything have you lost since the start of the crisis?

What do you fear that you may lose if things turn out for the worst? What is your worst case scenario and how do you plan to deal with such a possible catastrophe? Do you agree that this may never actually happen, but you are having to face a risk that it could happen. What should your insurance policy plan cover?

Do you need to do anything to make yourself safer in response to this crisis?

At this point, do you feel that there is anything you could do to improve the situation?

Given that our codependence tends to be reactive to the user's problems, what help if any do you need for your codependence?

BTW: I would not underestimate the degree of loss he is feeling here, especially within the AA group. He has gone from 19 years of sobriety to 1 day. That could be a huge loss of face and that could create a lot of pain as he tries to deal with the dent in his self-image.

An encouraging word from someone whose regret and criticism is really scarey, can give us blokes a huge lift. "We know we have blown it, but she still loves me anyway."

However, I agree with others who say that the risk is that your forgiveness will just be taken for granted, leaving you feeling ripped off.

I guess it is one of those opportunities to offer unconditional love. And yes, you need to consider carefully whether that is what you want to do.

Don't do it to rescue him. Maybe do it because he is human and you know you can do something positive yet remain detached from what he does with it.

June 18, 2008
12:12 am
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MsGuided
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The man is in emotional pain losing his job.....the state of things is beating many down......so what do we do?
Throw eachother away or understand life isn't perfect and we don't always have control.
We slip, break bones, heal, get back up.
How is his progress overall?
Is he sinking into idleness or does he have a plan and remain productive and helpfull at home and in other areas ( interests, family, freinds, you, sex drive etc.).
I would look at the whole picture and focus on the vicoden slip if he is slipping everywhere else.

Men aren't infallable when they get cut down so Aus's words ring to me.

It would be different if he were doing ok ( working and healthy)and he was hiding substance abuse. That indicates an egotist or N.
IMO.

June 18, 2008
12:21 am
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(((Fire)))

It's all going to be okay. It's a rough time in your lives, with unemployment and financial strain, family issues, the two of you together 24/7. But he told you, and he stopped it.

I agree with Fantas about going to a meeting on your own. Everything you're feeling is normal, but it would likely be beneficial to talk to others on your side of it. You didn't cause his slip, nor can you fix it. Worry and deconstruction need to be confined.

It is upsetting, but you will get through it. The euphoria those little pills can bring when one is anxious can be very hard to resist. But your husband did put a stop to it.

Take care. It will be okay. YOU will be okay no matter what.

Peace and love,

Mary

June 18, 2008
12:38 am
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fire- I guess I missed something sorry. First of all it isnt your responsiblity. That is his. So dont blame yourself.

When he asked you to get rid of the vicodin he was putting the responsiblity on you. You should have told him to and stood their and watched him.

Sounds like he had a relapse. Is in denial, making excuses.

This is his problem not yours.

Us codies need to learn not to be responsible for others.

My husband used to have a morpheine addiction and a vicodin addiction not too long ago. I caught him with his dead grandmothers perscription of Vicodin. He can go back to jail if he has a positive drug screen. I will probably dump his ass if he ever starts that crap again.

Remember ADDICTS LIE.

June 18, 2008
12:47 am
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Fire- Your not your husbands therapist and there are not 12 steps leading to the doorway of your home.

Sounds like he likes taking these pills. And it is hard to get someone to stop doing something they enjoy.

My husband always uses the stress of me trying to control him or whatever to run to the liquor store, go to his cave and start getting drunk.

They are famouse for excuses.

The only thing an addict understands is action.

June 18, 2008
1:03 am
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My thoughts were along the lines of Destiny...why were you trying to control his pain meds...is this man not a grown up? Is he not informed????...you mentioned AA buddies....it is HIS job to call them. NOT YOURS. My husband is still drinking...you know what...it has been hard as hell ignoring him....but he is a bright guy....he has already admitted that he has a problem. I can't do anything about it...so, I am leaving him to sort it out. I can only sort me out. I have quit worrying about whether he has coming home or not....or drinking or not....I am thinking straight for the first time in a long time. Sure it sucks....but as FREE told me....stop being so surprised!!!
Now...I sound like I am attacking you....let me say that honestly I am not...I feel your pain to my very bones. It is hard, and sad, and gut wrenching to watch the one that you have chosen to live your life with do self destructive things...god, we wouldn't be human at all if it didn't bother us a little bit....but the way that you react to it is important. You need to walk on ahead of him on the trail...and let him figure out where his own path lies....I have a feeling that he knows exactly what he is doing.....I also need to tell you that I suffer from chronic pain...I know what is in that bottle and I make sure that I take what the doctor gives me the way it was written...and hey, if it is too much or too little, I have a chat with the doctor. NOW..being fair...I am not an addict...so I am not so tempted to misuse...but since he KNOWS he is an addict....seems to me, that he should know more about taking the meds as prescribed. Let HIM sort it out. I also think that he needs to be honest with his doctor and TELL him that he is an alcoholic....the doc will make sure that he is not getting more than is required.....unless too, he is doctor shopping...(having more than one doc giving him drugs) That is more common than you think...which makes it darn hard for the rest of us that need help. BUT as I said...so NOT your problem....You can't control anything he does. I send you many hugs...because it is so difficult to get past this. I think that you have the strength and the drive to do what you need to do. I have faith in you....You will be fine. Oh...and feel free to tell me off when I need it!!! 🙂 Like I said....none of us is perfect....we are all souls in training. (((HUG)))

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