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No Matter WHAT YOU DO...or how HARD YOU TRY.....
November 16, 2006
8:45 am
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truthBtold
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You can Still......Never...EVER change someone ELSE'S limitations!!!!

(Boy - ain't THAT the truth!!!!!!)

November 16, 2006
10:00 am
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2shy
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Yet we STILL TRY. Can we be merely addicted to the challenge?

November 16, 2006
10:05 am
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truthBtold
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To try is fruitless. Faster you learn to redirect all that energy unto yourself....the better off you will be! Believe me....I KNOW what I am talking about here.............

November 16, 2006
11:36 am
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mamacinnamon
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tell me more please. I need to know.

November 16, 2006
11:48 am
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truthBtold
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People are people....warts and all.

When you meet up with them - oh gosh....I seem to remember some great quote from the Oprah show....what was it?

Something like...."When People Show You Who They Are In The Beginning.....BELIEVE THEM!!!!"

Yeah.

THAT was it!!!!!

Maya Angelou maybe????

November 16, 2006
11:55 am
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mamacinnamon
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but when they lie????

and you marry them and then find out and 14 years later what......

November 16, 2006
12:23 pm
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cyndra820
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I think that if they hid it for fourteen years they were in the wrong profession!!

Seriously, people have learned to create masks that they hide behind that RARELY fall off. When they slip a little bit we usually make some excuse.

However, if they are rude and obnoxious in the beginning that is more than likely who they are. They aren't going to become someone different. They are who they are and we can't change them. I keep telling myself the next time I meet a project I would head straigh to Lowe's rather than chat with him.

Love,
Cyndra

November 16, 2006
12:39 pm
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atalose
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God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

November 16, 2006
12:55 pm
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cyndra820
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Atalose,

I LOVE your version of the Serenity Prayer!!!

November 16, 2006
1:05 pm
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atalose
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thanks, I often remember the sayings or words of wisdom that have helped me in the past and then see if re-wording certain parts fits another situation..

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

November 16, 2006
2:03 pm
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mamacinnamon
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he lied about bein a pothead. i found out 6 months after we were married and then of course i was pregnant. it's been an on the wagon off the wagon thing for 14 years, supposedly clean the last 3 years.

I live that version of the serenity prayer too.

OK I know we cannot change them. How do we learn to live w/ it?? How do you take something that was discussed before the marriage and the morals were exposed and then you find out he lied and then ... How do you get the "I don't give a shit" attitude??

November 17, 2006
10:55 am
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atalose
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It sounds like you are rehasing an old argument. If you found out after 6 months of marriage that he lied, why are you still dealing with that issue, 14 years later?
I think you are hung up on being deceived and lied to 14 years ago, as if that is the cause of some new issue now.
I would think after 14 years of active addiction on/off you would have the " I don't give a shit attitude" by now.
I would suggest al-anon meetings for you to attend. Keep posting and discovering about yourself and how you fit into his addiction.

Atalose

~~Hope has a place, but not above reality~~

November 17, 2006
12:37 pm
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thedogsmom
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mamacinnamon
i think i know a bit how you feel. My relationship-though wonderful for the first 5years. too began with a lie or more correctly began with deciept. He was not honest about his financial dire and so we started on a bad note. it does keep coming back to haunt you once the problems start coming out.
If you were fooled in the beginning, once you found out. you had to make some decision. you were 6 months pregnant and decided to stay. maybe you bargained with him and he promised to stop several times and has not yet done so. JUst because you let him continue to get away with it all these 14 years later...doesn't mean you have to accept it for your future. You will have to accept his addiction and try to live your happiest life in spite of it..if you choose to continue to live with an addict. As you will never be able to force change on that addict.
in the end though.. no matter how tough it may be.. it is still your choice and your decision whether you want to continue living that lie.
TDM

November 17, 2006
2:24 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Yes I know it is my choice to have to live w/. I also think of my child. He is not physically abusive; verbally to me but not our child. I also know I have to live w/ the choice I make there also.

He's not brought it into our home. The one time he did I left him and insisted on marriage counseling. We patched it up. I honestly think when he falls off the wagon he does try to get back on it. Seems so anyway, but a year or so it creeps back in. The last time I found out, and yes, it was in our home then, I told him one more time he's gone. As much as I would hate to do that to him coz I feel he does try and coz I love him, I will stick true to my word. I said it to my son and now my son is having to live w/ his actions and I will also follow thru w/ my husband. It's hard tho. I get tired of always bein the heavy, but I promised God I'd raise my children in a Christian home and I try.

My big deal is to the attitude. I cannot get it. I try. I focus on other things, do someting nice for someone else, think of me (some), but the hurt feeling and distrust are still there. I know alot of it is coz his bro is heavy into it and I know my hubby hangs out w/ him alot.

Circumstances bein as they are... my mom, who has never been there for me other than droppin off groceries or the like, said to me that if he leaves her and dad will help me out. I was shocked. Truely happy but shocked. It's hard to say I got dooped again. Ya know that failure type feelin. Why do we have to have emotions anyway.

Anyway, I just need to find a way to let this go coz it is definitely causing strife in our marriage. I just cannot find how.

November 17, 2006
2:41 pm
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caraway
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Is it too much to ask that he use proper manners when eating? I mean close his mouth when he chews and stop eating when someone stops by the table to say hello.

Is asking someone to change who they are to ask them to have better manners and be more thoughtful?

Cary

November 17, 2006
3:13 pm
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bevdee
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I'm wondering what lesson your child is learning when he sees the head of the household breaking his promises (and the law) over and over again?

To see you so unhappy?

To hear and see you verbally abused?

November 17, 2006
3:14 pm
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bevdee
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i'm sorry - that last post is to Mamacinnamon.

November 17, 2006
3:34 pm
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turnabout
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Mammac, I have to interject something about your abuse comment.

"He is not physically abusive; verbally to me but not our child."

I suppose it isn't commonly thought of this way, but it is abusive for a child to be subjected repeatedly to helplessly witnessing a parent or sibling being abused. It creates an abusive environment for them, which distorts their perceptions of right and wrong, love and devotion. So, I say if a mother is being abused in any way, the children are being abused right along with her by proxy.

I just couldn't let you get away with qualifying why you're staying for your child's well-being. I don't mean to suggest what you should do about staying committed to your marriage. That's your call. But I can't let you blindly fool yourself into thinking your child isn't being abused so therefore things aren't so bad. That's a deception in itself.

November 17, 2006
3:35 pm
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mamacinnamon
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bevdee

She has no clue about the drugs. She knows daddy did in the past coz of meetings at my son's rehab meetings. But she truly has no clue. She has been told since she was little that she doesn't go to uncle's house w/ dad coz it is guys time. No girls allowed.

As for her seein me unhappy and verbally abused... That is really a hurtful point but true. She will say things like "oh don't listen to him, he's full of it" or "no mom, he's wrong". It has only been in the last 2 months since we moved that she has even heard anything. We never said anything near her. Now we cannot go out into the office (far side of the building) where she cannot hear. So, now I don't know what to do. I tell her it's wrong for someone to act like that. She'll give me a one-armed hug and say "don't listen to him you are a great mom" but that doesn't stop the fact that she hears.

I grew up listening to my mom cry every night in her room. My children have not had to go thru that. He's gone to work when they get home from school and they are asleep when he returns. Only one left at home now. She and I have a wonderful time w/ each other. We sing, laugh, dance, do stuff together but now we are in a regular house and not a big building. I know she hears. I don't make excuses, compensated, and ya know honestly they just think dad is a jerk. I don't know what to do other then remind him that his daughter can hear what he is saying and does he want her to take this kind of crap from her husband coz he's showing her that this is acceptible and it's not.

November 17, 2006
3:42 pm
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bevdee
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Turnabout,

I agree- "I suppose it isn't commonly thought of this way, but it is abusive for a child to be subjected repeatedly to helplessly witnessing a parent or sibling being abused. It creates an abusive environment for them, which distorts their perceptions of right and wrong, love and devotion. So, I say if a mother is being abused in any way, the children are being abused right along with her by proxy."

My parents were not physically abusive to each other, but my mom was verbally abusive to my daddy. I believe this has skewed my perception of healthy relationships.

Bevdee

November 17, 2006
4:07 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Turnabout & Bevdee:

I totally agree w/ your comments. I didn't mean to suggest she is not feeling reprocussions from what goes on w/ he and I. And I am not staying in the marriage for her well-being. If I were, I'd be a fool and a hypocrit. There are many reasons I stay but none have to do w/ her. I do have my stash of cash and my papers in order, etc. for if and when I need to go. I don't try to tell others what to do w/o applying it to myself.

I am reaching out for help here coz before it was easy to hide from her for the most part. She was not privy to what was goin on and when she was here he is at work and we are a happy family in her eyes. I learned to mask quite well the first time around. And she attributes when I am down to I hurt coz of my illness. It's wrong, but it's the best I can do for now.

No, I don't have my eyes covered. I also don't lay down and let him kick me in the teeth. I walk out the door and go spend the day w/ a friend until he's gone to work and she's out of school. I do my best NOT to take it and no, I don't believe the stupid things he tries to tell me. But yes, I am still here. I kindly and sometimes quite loudly let him know if he is unhappy here there's the door no questions asked. But now, we are in a home and he cannot just go to his cave and cool down. It's sad when she and I look at each other and say "dad's in a mood" and we find things to do away from him. lol but not really funny. Park him in front of the tv and he'll stay there for hours. But then he works 7 days a week and is rarely home.

No excuses made, just explaining how it is. I'm still looking for answers and tryin to find some normalcy if there is any.

November 17, 2006
4:41 pm
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bevdee
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Mama,

How old is your daughter? When I was 8, I was aware that my mother ws in love with another man. Don't underestimate her perception.

I'm glad you have a stash - it appears you have been preparing for leaving?

November 20, 2006
5:05 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Sorry I couldn't get back to concentrate on the subject. Ok to go on.

My daughter is 13. Yes, she does see and I will not make any excuses for it. It is wrong. I think this last Saturday night slapped me in the face so damn hard. We had bought a big antique mirror to place in the living room and some of my friends came to help get it attached to the wall. Only weighs half a ton.

My daughter was packin some things in a couple baskets and I was helping her w/ that. She waited till there was a pause and then said something to her dad about what she was packin and he bit at her. Didn't curse or anything but said somethin like "Can you not see I'm busy here. "I don't have time for that nonsnse." I think she held me back and my friend was quick to say something to him about it. To which of course he's bein picked on. I noticed she went to bed. I went in to tuck her in and asked her if she'd like to come back in w/ the rest of us and she said "What for mom he'll just yell at me again." Sigh!! That hurt. She saw it hurt and told me it's not my fault. I know it isn't but that is so not the point. I did say something to him later. Then I saw his mom this weekend and she asked so I told her what happened. I also told her I WILL NOT raise my daughter in a home that........ (you've heard that part before.) And what does she do but make excuses for him and some of them are that I don't this and I don't that. Sorry. "I don't" isn't gonna get anyone anywhere. I do the best I can and I am a good wife, or at least try to be. I do w/o sleep to see him, he has a hot meal on the table at 12:30 am and he doesn't eat it most the time. Sorry, got a little bit hot under the fingers there.

He says he needs a warm soft wife to come home to. I truely don't have much to say to that. Don't back the dog in the corner and kick it and you'll not get bit. (not literally).

I guess it does come down to what atalose said.... God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me.

So, where do we go from here??

November 23, 2006
7:46 pm
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bevdee
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Mama,

I missed the 11-20-06 post.

"So, where do we go from here??"

That is a tough question, isn't it? I don't think I have any answers. I was very slow to make a decision to leave, and I don't have kids.

Even when there is no physical abuse, there is no danger - IN YOUR FACE. No imminent danger.

I read your posts, and I am going to make some assumptions. I will beg your pardon in advance if I assume incorrectly. But -

Are these things holding you back? From making any changes?

The fact that he is your daughter's daddy?

Your fibromyalgia? I have a friend from grade school that has fibromyalgia, and she has been unable to keep a full-time job since the onset of her illness.

Your religious convictions? Please understand, although we both know that you and I don't agree on religion, I do know and respect how a person's convictions will factor into those decisions.

The bottom line for me was this realisation - "It will never get any better than this". I left a week later. I didn't care how I lived, as long as it was away from him. Even without the physical abuse, my spirit was so crushed. Ever once in a while, she would peek out, but not often enough.

After about a year away from him,I thought how nice it was to come home to the house with my dog, because it was always the same. I always knew how it would be when I walked in.

Quiet.

And the dog was always happy to see me.

I hope you had a nice holiday.

Bevdee

November 23, 2006
9:45 pm
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Worried_Dad
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"He says he needs a warm soft wife to come home to."

Nothing softens and warms a person as well as respect, kindeness and love.

I heard it works on wives, too.

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