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no contact w/myspace pages, blogs, etc.
July 17, 2007
2:45 pm
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marypoppins
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A while back, my ex-friend/boyfriend and I were still talking about my visit to see him next month. He mentioned a new friend, but he wouldn't tell me her name. Said it wasn't important. Seemed very suspicious to me. Finally he told me. I googled her and found a lot of very revealing information. In her blog, she referred to him as "the boyfriend". When I confronted him about this, he told me he'd had enough of my jealousy and suspicious mind, and to never contact him again. I'd crossed the line, he said, by spying on him through the Internet. Like a fool, I begged for forgiveness because I was afraid to lose all contact with him. A week later, he told me he was still my friend and that he still loved me. It was then just understood that itwasn't going to happen between us and that he was with someone else. He never came out and explained that he was sorry, that he didn't know how to tell me, nothing.

He'd never made any promises to me, and I'd never made any to him, but he had assured me that he wasn't interested in anyone and that there was some hope for us.

I don't think he was ever very serious about us. I think he used me to get through recovery, and when he made new friends and finally felt confident enough to date, he withdrew. I knew he was pulling away, so I clung harder, humiliating myself.

In addition to not emailing him, I also have to stick to not looking at her blog or their myspace pages.

mpoppins

July 17, 2007
3:07 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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mary,

boy, I hear my story in your words.

I went to his myspace, and realized what was going on.

He twisted it around and claimed I was making something out of nothing and assuming alot. He also stated that I knew about his myspace all this time, so why blow up about it now. Yes, I may have heard he had one, but never went there to see what he was doing.

He assumed I had, so since I didn't blow, he kept up his suspicious activities. Thinking the whole time that I knew and was ok with it.

I wasn't....and on there, there was alot of posts from his "other woman" that showed me he was lying ALOT more than I knew about...going out with her on occasions I thought he was home.

Anyway, after we broke up, I stayed on the groups we jointly belonged to and frequented his myspace to see what he was up to. I WANTED to see that he was miserable.

BUT, they will NEVER reveal that. They put on a good show.

When he started posting about his new GF...after NEVER posting about our relationship - which almost went to marriage, and he lived with me...I was LIVID.

But then I realized how sick he was and how glad I am to have him out of my life. I realize that his new GF and he are a PERFECT match and that they deserve eachother. I realize that I was just too good for him and he knew it. He simply was not good enough for me...and he tried being a wonderful man, but couldn't keep it up...so if she likes what she has, god bless her.

Eventually, I came to realize that "watching him" via his myspace was a useless waste of time and it really did not allow me to close the chapters that had hurt me so bad.

In order to heal, I had to stop.

I have stopped going there...and I am healing. I get the "itch" to see what he is up to every now and again, but I do something else more constructive and healthy. I deserve NOT to get caught up in that crap.

Scary part is, 16 months later and he still visits my sites and sees what I am doing...and knows more about my life than some of my close friends do. It's sad...but shows how sick he is and how he just can't let go.

It is entirely possible you are a rebound...or a "stepping stone"...and the only thing I can say is learn from the experience...don't get involved in a man that is going thru major life changes....my ex was working thru divorce (not even sure he's divorced YET, after three years)....but also lost a job after 19 years and wanted to relocate and start over....it's not worth it...find a man that is on his feet, stable and has his shit together and heading in the right direction - one compatible with where you are heading.

It's a waste of time, energy and too painful to keep going back to their blogs and such...let them go, know that karma will happen eventually and that if it was difficult with him, she probably has the same issues with him. People don't change overnight...he's just putting on a good show right now - just like he did with you.

You aren't truly in "NO CONTACT" until he is completely out of your life. That does include myspace lurking and such.

July 17, 2007
3:29 pm
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marypoppins
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Rising,

Thank you so much. I should have known better. It was my second time around with him, and I sought him out again because my husband had moved to a separate room, and he and I stopped having sex - basically became roommates.

I'd been limping along with the two of them, trying to get my needs met and unable to let go of either one.

Now that he's with someone else, I was forced to let go. I don't know that my husband realized I was emotionally absent from him, but we're trying again. I knew my relationship with my husband had a better chance without the other guy in the picture, but I couldn't let go.

Now, I'm feeling stronger each day, and my relationship with my husband is improving. I'm beginning to feel that if in the future, I need to also let go of my marriage, I'll be able to do that.

This site has helped me a lot.

Thank you again for sharing your story and giving me your support.

Mary

July 17, 2007
3:52 pm
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risingfromtheashes
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glad to help mary.

Next time you get the "itch" to visit the blogs or web pages...ask yourself "what will this accomplish", "what are my motives", and "how much will this hurt".

Let's face it, it ALWAYS hurts...until we are able to accept that it's NEVER as good as they make it seem...it will hurt...we will always feel worse about ourselves when we visit these sites...wondering what we did wrong, what we didn't do good enough, why we weren't good enough.

At least, those were the things I felt when I went to his site. Always thinking "she's younger, she's prettier, she's thinner, she's a model"...blah blah blah...it did NOTHING for my esteem.

It always hurts and it accomplishes NOTHING.

also know that MANY of these pages have ways to track the traffic, so if you go, he may know it, or she may know it...and I don't know if you really want them knowing you are lurking...so anytime I get the itch, I think "I don't want him trying to "squeek back in the door" with me, so I will stay away".

Keep the focus on you, it will serve you better in time.

July 17, 2007
7:19 pm
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Marypoppins,

you've been there for me in the past few days to remind me to look after myself, and I am here to do the same for you right now.

We ALWAYS KNOW when we're doing something that's bad for us, because as you say yourself, it makes us feel like shit. Whether it's "right" or "wrong" becomes irrelevant. Does it make you feel energized? Does it make you proud? Does it make you feel like you're doing something that's soul-nurturing or soul-destroying?

ANY addiction is equally harmful in terms of the damage you cause to your own self-esteem when you indulge in it. With the internet, the whole notion of privacy has become very blurry, but we KNOW when we're crossing the line.

Also... this may not be any of my business, and I certainly don't want to come off sounding judgmental, but if you're trying to get your marriage back on track, it's probably a good idea not to have other relationships on the backburner. You know as well as I do that you need to commit 100% to making a relationship work, otherwise, you're just biding your time...

You said: I'd been limping along with the two of them, trying to get my needs met and unable to let go of either one.

Have yo ever considered that maybe the person you need to be with MOST is... YOURSELF?

July 17, 2007
9:05 pm
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marypoppins
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Thank you Rising and GF,

EVERYTHING you both said is right on. I mean everything.

Take care, and again, thank you.

M

July 18, 2007
8:28 am
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startingover
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Hi marypoppins

Do yourself a big favor and don't look again - it's too painful.

Been there - my ex posted pictures of his new GF in lingerie. I used to look just because I couldn't believe it. And of course she was way younger than me so it was even more tortuous.

There's no need to go there. Take care of yourself.

SO

July 18, 2007
9:01 am
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taj64
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My space, blog, match.com, etc, it is a mild form of stalking in my opinion. You are seeking information abuot a person and that is spying. Spying to me is stalking. Yeah anyone can read the information but in my opinion it is being nosey that is not of your concern anymore and serves no purpose. He is not in your life and you are married so your focus on yourself, your marriage. HOw else are you going to improve your marriage? Do you think your husband would approve of you visiting these websites? I think you owe it to try it out with him, see where it goes than to be actively pursuing something that could end up hurting someone you do love and that is your husband. How he is supposed to trust you? Do you value trust? If you do, then you too have to do your part to earn it. Actively taking part in someone you have been involved with is deceitful in my opinion. You would not want your husband to be looking for loves now would you? Be better to yourself.

July 18, 2007
9:27 am
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risingfromtheashes
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I used to think it was stalking...BUT...found out it isn't, not in any legal sense.

If you put personal information out there, in a public forum, then you are opening yourself up to ANYONE reading it. It's indirectly giving the public permission to know what's going on in your life.

If you don't want someone knowing what is going on - don't post it. It's that simple.

And I say this because I sought legal counsel recently because I felt I was being stalked. I was told by the authorities that if I post personal information out there in a public forum, then I am giving indirect permission for my "life" to be viewed and that if I didn't want it viewed, don't post it...or post it in a secured environment.

When a person creates an online profile, whether on a dating site or myspace or other - they are ASKING for people to view their personal information. Once you do this - you can't control WHO sees it. In fact, most people who create online dating profiles WANT as many people to see their profile as possible, they WANT the attention. And it's my opinion that people who post on myspace and other similar places WANT the attention and are craving the attention. Dating profiles have a purpose...but myspace? Sorry, in my mind, many people (not all, but many) are people who are lonely, insecure and feel bad about themselves...or don't feel "whole" in their lives, and use myspace to fill some kind of void, get attention and make "pseudo friends" online. Those people who have many many many buddies on their list are really people with alot of issues...and get some kind of self worth by having a huge buddy list. They need help as far as I am concerned. Dating sites, I get, but myspace...I don't get.

(sorry, off on a myspace tangent as I had myspace usage wreak havoc in my own life).

Consider celebrities...they are "stalked" everywhere by paparazzi - and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it...once they are out of the privacy of their own home, they are fair game.

Now, I do agree with taj that being "nosey" serves no useful purpose and is only an unhealthy behaviour that undermines your recovery efforts and any effort to rebuild your current relationships.

July 18, 2007
9:47 am
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taj64
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Don't get me wrong I was not talking in the legal sense but the moral sense in stalking. Yes it is a public forum, true, and you take a risk but it is the same as when you live on a street, walk down a street where you work etc. You take a chance on where you live, walk, work. Blogs, my space etc is just in the confines of a home and not seen as easily as maybe drive bys etc. I am sure it is not the law here but I do feel that you visiting these pages to keep up with that person is mild stalking. YOu are seeking information. When stalker drive by someone's house, they are checking up on them, and checking on them on the internet is the same deal to me, just not the legal law.

Just like when you write about your sex life for others to read about it you are vulnerable to anyone that read it including an ex. I feel people manipulate, describing who they are with, their sex life, on these websites to get the information to others such as an ex lover that might be reading it either as revenge or rubbing it in. You have to be very careful about exposing your life, and take into account who might be reading it, and some celebreties go to great lengths to protect it and other invite. Each person is different. In this day and age to be careful and safe. These are just my opinions.

July 18, 2007
10:02 am
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risingfromtheashes
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taj, not sure if you are directly referring to me when you mention an ex reading it or posting to rub it in.

but since this WAS a past debate for me...I will say...in total honesty, my posts NEVER had the intent of rubbing it in, or making him know what was going or anything. Only once did I ever post something directly with the intent of him reading and even then, I addressed him accordingly.

however, I CAN see how it can be viewed this way.

only the poster can know their true intent and must be honest with themselves when posting.

I chose not to hold back - I am me and whether he is reading or not, this is what I would post - I am being true to me and my nature.

If he doesn't want to know about my present relationships, don't read. If he does, more power to him. I don't post on boards we both frequented anymore, only on MY boards, the ones he didn't go to.

NOW, if I felt a physical threat, I wouldn't be posting at all. But such is not the case.

Anyway, my point is, I know that MY intent was not to manipulate my ex in any way...but I could easily see how it could be seen or how easily it could be used by someone who IS trying.

I would LOVE to believe that there is complete anonymity on this board, but I know for fact it isn't the case. And honestly, true anonymity would be hard, when you have to talk about personal issues, problems and situations.

July 18, 2007
10:15 am
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I was not talking to you directly. I was talking to the original poster and the meaning of websites and information that is out there. I was talking about being careful of internet. Some are protective and others are not. I value privacy and privacy of others. I would not want my ex or any other exs to read about me so I am careful as I see these myspace as a form of gossip for some to a degree. As far as what happened with us in the bedroom is between us and nobody else. And I don't care to know about what other's do in bed either. And knowing my ex he would not appreciate me writing aobut us to this degree and I respect him enough for it. You do have to choose what you read for sure, but you don't have to hide an opinion on what your thoughts are on privacy. I am sure everyone has a different opinion on it. Rising if you are comfortable with it then fine. But if he reacts to it, then that is for you to deal with it. I just know for me I would not be so graphic about it and it is personal and private. Good luck for you as obviously it works for you.

July 19, 2007
1:27 pm
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mary... just wondering how you're doing?

July 19, 2007
4:15 pm
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Hello TGF/The Girl/Girlfriend,

I'm okay. Thank you for asking.
Yesterday we had a memorial service for the student who died in the motorcycle accident. I teach international students, and the guy killed, the girl riding with him, who is still in the hospital in critical condition, and the driver of the car the motorcyle crashed into are all from different cultures and religious backgrounds. The room was filled with teachers, students from many countries, friends, neighbors, university officials. There were also a few witnesses to the accident who showed up. The guy driving the car was rear-ended by the motorcycle, so there was nothing he could have done to prevent the accident. However, he still feels very guilty and wept as he spoke to us through his translator, who also wept. The guy who died was so well liked - very intelligent, generous, optimistic. It's just heartbreaking all the way around. One of the guy's friends told everyone to strike all hate from their hearts in order to live the way his friend had.

On a more personal and what seems quite trivial note, I'm still reading Women Who Love Too Much and finding it helpful. Since I haven't spoken with my friend in nearly 3 weeks or looked at anything on line concerning him or his new girlfriend in nearly as long, I'm doing better. Each day is easier. He was on his second and last chance with me.

My husband and I are connecting better. He had given up on us a long time ago when he moved out of our bedroom, which is why I originally sought out my friend. But now, my husband and I are both giving, and we're both present. I still have so much more work to do on myself, however. You write. I used to sing. I started university on a music scholarship and also studied theater. On down the road, however, I ended up with degrees in other fields. I'd like to work past my fear and spend more time on creative expression without harsh judgement. Hell, maybe no judgement of any kind!

How are YOU doing? I think what I last read was that you were feeling comfortable with letting your ex sort things out on his own. And that even though he had been pushing to see you, after you'd told him no contact until he gets himself together, you were standing firm. Is that correct?

Looking forward to your response...

Mary

July 19, 2007
4:52 pm
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Hi Mary,

very nice to hear from you. That motorcycle accident certainly is an incredible tragedy. I feel especially badly for those who are still living and especially the guy driving the car, because even though it wasn't his fault, he'll be living with that pain and guilt all his life.

I would add to the friend's message that we should all strike anger and fear as well as guilt and self-hatred from our hearts. Seems the world would be a better place for it. Because no matter how well-intentioned we all are, there will always be tragedies, we will all make mistakes, we will all screw up, whether purposefully or not, and the sooner we can all forgive ouselves, the sooner we can find peace.

That being said... I'm not doing so very well today. I haven't contacted or heard from the ex in a couple of days, so I guess that's something to feel okay about... But I'm feeling a lot of pain and anger... am so angry at myself today that it actually physically hurts. Wish I could just learn to let go and just be okay with myself. You can read about it in the "HELP" thread, if you want more details.

I did get "Codependent no More" yesterday and am halfway through it already. I wanted to also get "Women who Love Too Much" but they didn't have it at the bookstore. I need to start ordering on Amazon, which would be much cheaper anyway.

You said: 'd like to work past my fear and spend more time on creative expression without harsh judgement. Hell, maybe no judgement of any kind!

I hear you sister! I wish that I could start believing in my own creativity and DO something with it. But I just don't know where to start and all that writing feels like a whole lot of procrastinating, more than anything. Have you ever done the Artist's Way? You might consider it, as would probably help you work past some of your creative blocks. I'm taking myself through the course right now, though wouldn't mind doing it with others, might encourage me to share that experience with others. I was especially touched by the most recent chapter I read, where she talks about working through painful moments by just being present, which is something you've just mentioned regarding
working things out with your husband (glad things are going better for you both, by the way).

Whatever the case, I must say... I'm enjoying our exchanges Mary, so for what it's worth: thank you for being there and sharing your thoughts with me!

(((((hugs)))))
gf

July 19, 2007
9:30 pm
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Hello GF,

In Women Who Love Too Much, probably also in Codependent No More, there is much discussion about using unhealthy relationships to avoid dealing with our own problems.

When we say no to the relationship, it's a sign of self love, isn't it? When we let ourselves feel our pain - our anger, disappointment, fear, and so on without numbing those feelings, it's also love of self. Those are growing pains.

That's what you're doing today. You are saying that you love yourself enough to pay attention to what you need and what you feel. Who will be able to understand you better than you do?

How can what you've written be procrastination? Saying you want to write and writing nothing is not where you are. You're beyond that.

You might have a short story or an essay that only needs a little polishing before you send it out. Once you do it, you'll be in the next place. It would be a giant little step...when you're ready.

I'm not familiar with the Artist's Way, but I'll look into it and get back to you.

I didn't realize how much I was freaking out over realizations I've come to recently until I lost myself in a good movie last night. It was a necessary break from self-analysis.

We're not supposed to feel comfortable right now because we're not in our usual comfort zones.

Take care!

mary

July 20, 2007
12:55 am
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marypoppins
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Girlfriend,

Hi. I read your post on the other thread about being on new meds and feeling very angry with yourself and your ex.

I've been on an anti-depressant for over 15 years, and I'll probably have to continue it until death. Finding the right medication at the proper dosage is not easy - as you well know. It's hard to be objective about one's own brain chemistry.

Didn't you mention that you're on medical leave with pay? How do you feel about that? Is it causing you more anxiety?

Today I'm not angry, but I have been and probably will be again. I've addressed these codependency issues before - years and years ago, and I can't believe I was in such denial about my codependent behavior.

According to Women Who Love Too Much, we seek out relationships similar to the relationships we grew up with, so if our caretakers were unavailable, abusive, blaming, that's what love is to us. Love that comes too easily feels wrong. Because we have a greater tolerance for pain, we accept what a healthier person would immediately reject. In addition, when we're with that partner who helps us re-enact that childhood struggle for love and acceptance, the relationship becomes a fight for what we never received from our parents, which makes it even harder to let go of. Finally, by staying in the relationship, we can avoid dealing with our own issues.

It's not very romantic, but it makes sense to me.

I've got to go.
Take care!

Mary

July 20, 2007
12:07 pm
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Hi Mary,

today I decided... decided not to follow up on any "shoulds". Only what I FEEL like doing at any given moment. It's rainy and gray out and I feel depressed and sad and still vaguely angry, and that's fine. I've decided to allow myself to feel whatever it is I'm feeling and not push it away. It's exhausting in and of itself, but I know it's part of the healing process.

You said: When we say no to the relationship, it's a sign of self love, isn't it? When we let ourselves feel our pain - our anger, disappointment, fear, and so on without numbing those feelings, it's also love of self. Those are growing pains.That's what you're doing today. You are saying that you love yourself enough to pay attention to what you need and what you feel. Who will be able to understand you better than you do?

Yesterday, perhaps I WAS saying I love myself, but I wasn't actually aware of it, didn't see it for what it was because I wasn't able to be quite PRESENT. So today I have decided to give myself this unconditional love in a very CONSCIOUS way... because I need to FEEL that love that I've so desperately wanted from someone else.

You said (in two separate entries: In Women Who Love Too Much, probably also in Codependent No More, there is much discussion about using unhealthy relationships to avoid dealing with our own problems.
[...]
Didn't you mention that you're on medical leave with pay? How do you feel about that? Is it causing you more anxiety?

To answer your questions:
1. Yes, I did.
2. Very anxious, no make that EXTREMELY anxious.
3. And oh yeah, you bet (as aforementioned).
So much so that I'd rather not get into all that right now, but you can see why I got into that messy relationship to begin with (and so can I).

You said: According to Women Who Love Too Much, we seek out relationships similar to the relationships we grew up with...

It's really ironic, because up until now, I "thought" I'd been AVOIDING relationships with men who made me think of my father, by looking for his OPPOSITE in many ways. THAT didn't get me very far obviously, because the more you run from something, the more you keep crashing into the wall. But we've been, my dad and I, working out our relationship and finding peace in the past couple of years and so for the first time, I met in T someone who actually reminded me of my dad's GOOD qualities, and I thought this time, that might be a good and very healing thing. Sometimes being conscious of a pattern doesn't make us quite strong enough to avoid falling into it all the same. Then again, maybe when all is said and done and time has passed, I'll find that this experience DID in fact help me grow and evolve (I can already see it has in many ways).

Just curious: what was the movie you saw? And... how are YOU doing today?

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