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Need support....alicat
November 23, 2005
2:01 pm
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garfield9547
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Like Brynna said...

When your talking about the 'box' ......

Again, Something for you..

"And the day came, when the risk to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anonymous

Our Physical and Emotional Response to Abuse

All my love

Garfield

November 23, 2005
2:05 pm
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brynna
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Garfield,

Awesome quote -- I believe the credit I've seen it go to is Anais Nin, just in case you're interested in exploring more. It's one of my favorites.

Brynna

November 23, 2005
2:11 pm
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Anonymous
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first - the box I am describing is NOT staying in the relationship box - but being out of it - being ALONE.

You see, my "alone" box, nobody can touch me...nobody can hurt me...it's safe...it's comfortable...it's familiar...it's painless.

I keep thinking that instead of learning to deal with my emotions - get a backbone and stand up for what I want - learn to feel angry and let go and move on - learn to love even when I am angry - those kinds of things - those things I literally FLEE from when I have to deal with them.

You see - BF made me SO angry - I HATE feeling angry - so I decided it was time to get out. That was the ONLY thing driving that decision. Had nothing to do with rational thought - was TOTALLY based on my anger - and being angry that he made me angry.

I see people get angry at their spouses, and argue/discuss, and let go and move on - and I think "how do they do that?????"...cuz when I get pissed - oh boy....look out.

Typically - when this happens - I break up with the person - and climb into my "alone" box....but then after a few days - it's lonely in there, so I climb out and make my way back to them.

I know I need to learn to be "constructively" angry and learn to STAY in a relationship without fleeing when the arguments happen.

I have a HUGE problem with anger - I don't know how to have it - use it - and let it go.

As far as postponing the inevitable or benefiting me....

I think it will benefit me to stay - only so we can get thru some therapy - so I can see what my "unhealthy" behaviours are in the eyes of the therapist - and go from there....perhaps he will evolve now that he is in therapy - but only time will tell that. Also, having him around will give me a better chance of getting some of the money back - tho that's only a bonus, not a reason for staying.

I am looking at the waiting period as a trial period...perhaps it IS putting off the inevitable - but I won't know that until then.

He plans on talking to me tonite...so I will know his plan then.

As far as keeping me in limbo - no, he isn't stringing me along - he is in NY until tonite - and he wants to have this conversation face to face - which I can understand...it's better that way. I wanted it done before tonite, so if it doesn't go well, the holiday won't be ruined - but it was impossible to see him before tonite.

So we will see....as I said before - and he knows...I have lost faith and patience in his plans - so he is up against that...and i won't apologize or feel guilty for it. Not sure what his plan is...but I won't have much patience for a "wait and see" type thing.

If nothing else, this relationship will teach me how to deal with my anger, stand up for my rights and wants and needs - and communicate better - and if he isn't who I need in the end - I will be MUCH better and stronger for the next person....and instead of starting over with a new person - I will have all the garbage out of the way with this one. As I said before, I have some bad habits, that need improvement, but I don't know all of them - and since he "triggers" them - I can get them out in the open and work on them...also, in therapy, I have someone to say "she does this, she does that"....I don't see it as a bad thing, I see it as an opportunity to change and grow into a better person and I wouldn't know it unless someone told me.

Anyway, rambling.

I am doing it to benefit myself - tho it may be hard and painful - but should only be for a few more weeks. His plan will be on the table tonite.

As far as my box...I am comfortable in my "alone" box....for a few days anyway...which is where I am right now.

November 23, 2005
2:16 pm
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gayle
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Thinking of you Ali (((HUGS))) Gayle

November 23, 2005
2:43 pm
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brynna
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Okay -- I see exactly what you mean now. It's the box where you are free to hide away, lick your wounds, and not be touched. It makes total sense.

In that regard, you are taking some great steps towards learning to climb out of the box because you already recognize that you do that when you're feeling upset, hurt, angry...

I'm glad that he is going to talk to you tonight...face to face. It will help you even further because regardless of what his plan is, you will be facing the issue head-on -- and you will be talking about it -- not staying safe in your box. I know it's scary, but you are taking a big step.

I think you're going to know a lot about yourself, what you can handle and what you're willing to accept after this disucussion.

I hope it goes well for you.

November 23, 2005
2:49 pm
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turnabout
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Ali, I'm so happy for your insight, I could cry.

I swear the hardest thing asked of a codependent is to wait on someone else to take responsibility for themselves and take action. We think if we could just jump in and take action, we could "fix" everything, and there would be no problem!

Sounds like you're making a giant leap away from your own "all or nothing" mindset by giving him the opportunity to fix his mess without surrendering your well-being to it. I think listening to him with an open mind while remaining aware of your own boundaries and needs is a decision you will look back on with pride as a milestone.

Again, I wish you the best. (which isn't sunshine and roses, but the contentment of personal satisfaction)

turn

November 23, 2005
2:50 pm
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Anonymous
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I like my box!!!

seriously...that passage I read made so much sense.

I am happy in my box...and for two days I couldn't be happier, despite the turmoil.

I keep wondering if this happiness is "real" and will last - or if it's just my "alone" box comfort and loneliness will kick in in a few days and I will want him back.

He emailed me saying he just got home from work, had to shower and run some errands and hopes to be up to the house early enough to talk - but said if he gets there too late to talk, he understands...said the talk is important. I told him before that I had alot to do and would be distracted and won't have a talk while I am distracted - that it had to be at a convenient time for me. Mostly because I get accused of not listening when I am distracted - and I don't...and recently, I have noticed there is ALOT I am not hearing...and not sure if it's me blocking out stuff on purpose or my ADD really kicking in. Something I am keeping an eye on.

November 23, 2005
2:56 pm
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brynna
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Listen, he had you wait on him, so it's perfectly fine to put things on your timetable if you need to.

Talk to him when *you* are ready. Remember that *you* are #1, and if you aren't capable of talking because you are distracted, then don't force it from yourself. It's okay to do that.

And if you need more time to yourself until you are in a place to actually communicate effectively, then tell him so. Tell him you want to talk, but it's just not a good time yet.

November 23, 2005
3:02 pm
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Turnabout...

my insight comes from lots of reading and my coda meetings...melody beatties books (and my HP leading me to the right pages) helps me more than I can say.

You are on the mark when you say that it's hard to step back and let someone handle their own issues and not jump in to fix it.

That was my biggest downfall prior to my recovery efforts.

I had a pattern of agreeing to a plan, stepping back, then after a while - not seeing results ***I*** wanted or was satisfied with, throwing the plan out the window, giving up or taking over myself.

When we first met - I told him my "patience threshold" was two weeks - as things got worse for us - it got to be three days - the peak was 24 hours...that's when it got bad.

He got so he could not trust me to hang in there - keep to the agreement - keep to the promises.

And when he crashed his truck - I jumped in and took over - and financed a car in my name cuz I thought it was the best option - he disagreed, but I was so hell bent on it that he didn't stand in my way.

Then when we hit THIS snag, with the rent - I did the SAME thing - I jumped in and got a loan from my brother - and fixed it. A few days later, I realized what I did - and I got ANGRY at myself for fixing it again, and angry at him for making another mess...and that's when I blew. I thought I was "fixing" it cuz my home was on the line - and in truth, it was...but in the end, it was my codpenedency doing the work.

And that totally threw him - cuz we had a "plan" and "agreement" on paying back the money - so when I took the plan away (again), he was angry at me for doing it. He NEEDED my help this time - he WANTED my help this time - and I gave it, then took it back.

As I said - the box where i don't have to deal with people is a nice place...for a while...then it gets lonely...I need to work on my people skills.

November 23, 2005
3:17 pm
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garfield9547
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I have to go to bed - very late here.

Will catch up tomorrow

Can We Help Them?

"Some people believe that holding on and hanging in there are signs of great strength. However, there are times when it takes much more strength to know when to let go, then do it."
Ann Landers

"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough."
Bede Jarrett

As we learn about mental disorders and illnesses we may be tempted to try to help, fix, cure, treat, medicate, or administer some remedy we come across. Do not do this. For your safety and sanity, let the professionals do their job.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 23, 2005
3:55 pm
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addicts wife
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((((((Ali)))))))
Thinking of you!!!
I think there must be something in the air in our parts causing the **** to hit all kinds of proverbial fans, this week, Huh???
So sorry you are going through all this turmoil, and stress!!
You are a wonderful person, very wise, strong, capable, insightful, sweet, and cared for.

I am thinking of you, and saying my lil' thoughts and well wishes up t othe good vibe faeries for ya'
will keep you close in my toughts throughout, especially through the Thanksgiving holiday, because you have been so comforting, helpful and resourceful.. a real friend to me in my recent dramas.
((((hugs))))
Kindest regards,
"AW"/J

November 23, 2005
4:02 pm
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joyful1
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Just a silly question here however, it is something to ponder...What could you be possibly be distracted with in that little box of yours? I am new here so, I will say hello to everyone. Great support system going on.
I left my boyfriend over 4 months ago. I knew the relationship was unhealthy. I did everything I could to help him so, I didn't feel guilty when I made my final decision to leave. I know this probably sounds like I planed it but, I didn't. I was just prepared for the worst doubting his sincerity. I was angry when I left him and now I am grieving (at least...I think that's what I am doing). I love him, just can't live with his behavior but, it hurts no less. I know that he is on a self destruct at this very moment. I know that he will probably find another woman to satisfy his needs. I also know it probably wont last too. I know that he has chosen certain substances to cover his pain. However, I chose to deal with my pain differently thus, I am the one feeling it to the full extent. I don't know if he will ever come to his senses. We love eachother very much but, just because two people love eachother does not mean they should be together. However, he does not understand this. He knows and understands that I will not tolorate his behavior but, he chooses not to stop.

I have been in my comfort box for a while now and ready to move on with my life but, it's hurting like crazy right now to totally let go of him. I've been waiting for him to hit rock bottom and decide to help himself and I am afraid that if I move on, he will need me and I wont be able to help him or be the friend he needs me to be. Not that he would deserve my help because of everything he has done to destroy us but, because I unconditionally love him. I am becomming tierd of waiting. I guess when I am ready to make my next move I will.

I have also taken steps during this process to make commitments to myself and one of those commitments is to not jump into another relationship too fast and another is not have sexual relations until I am married. I have found that if I keep this part of me for my husband, I don't have to complicate the relationship with my emotional attachment before I am ready and know for sure that he is the right one for me.

I wont bore you with anymore details...Ali, it sounds like your b/f is sincerely trying. You can help those who help themself. Just be careful that he isn't manipulating you enough to get you back into his good graces. I'm sure you know him better than any of us. His actions will show you what he is trying to accomplish. Just try not to second guess your desisions.

I was just wondering...is it possible that you are treating your boyfriend like a child because he may be acting like one at times or just because you are trying to control him?

November 23, 2005
4:09 pm
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Anonymous
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both - he does act like a child - mainly in his financial decisions - which is a "hot button" of mine...and yet, the other part is a control issue on my part - thus my codependency.

What distracts me in my box?...nothing - it's safe, I like it....but it's lonely....so I climb out, but like a only child that never played with another - I have no social skills - I have no ability to cope with other people when the going gets rough. I was never taught - I was always told to shut up and go to my room - and I went running, in tears...which is exactly what I still do.

He is trying - I just get frustrated that the progress is not in areas ***I*** want, and in my time table.

You sound like you got a sound plan as far as not dating and getting sexually involved.

I think in time you will realize he isn't coming around and decide it's time to stop waiting...only time will fix that...cuz chances are, he won't. A day will come when you say - enough. Or perhaps a nice guy will sweep you off your feet. Or you will get a job offer someplace else....life happens.

as long as you aren't actively putting things on hold - you will be okay...it's okay to hope...eventually you will find something "new" to hope for.

And WELCOME!....can't wait to hear more.

November 23, 2005
4:54 pm
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I won't get online this weekend, and have friday off...so everyone have a happy turkey day...and will connect back here on monday.

if I can get online over the weekend, I will try.

Love to all!

November 23, 2005
7:07 pm
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joyful1
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Keep us posted Ali...Have a great weekend!

November 23, 2005
7:31 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Ali,

I know you won't be around for the weekend but I wanted to post this anyway in response to one of the things you talked about here.

You talk of running away and how you need to learn to love despite your anger. You also talk about how others fight and seem to be able to get over it.

In my opinion, it depends on the type of relationship. If you have a mutually loving, respectful, responsible, mature relationship and happen to disagree from time to time...chances are you love and respect each other enough and are mature enough to actually RESOLVE the issue and therefore are able to move on.

That is not the type of relationship we are talking about here. That is also not the kind of relationship that I had with my b/f. These relationships are filled with lies, deceit, manipulation, irresponsiblity, immaturity, verbal and mental abuse. That is the difference.

You, nor I , nor anyone should feel the need to "stick it out" in these situations.

By leaving, you (we) are not "running away", we are protecting ourselves. Our health, our self-esteem, our sanity. We not only have the right to do that for ourselves....we have the responsibilty to protect ourselves.

As I've told you, I will support you no matter what you decide, but I just wanted to point out what I thought the difference was between "running away" and self-preservation.

I hope things go well with your talk tonight.

Have a great holiday.

Love,
Lolli

November 23, 2005
8:14 pm
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Anonymous
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(((ali))) Happy holidays!!

November 27, 2005
4:14 pm
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Hi guys,

posting from a friend's house.

too many posts to catch up on...god help me if boss is around on Monday!!! LOL

Anyway - BF came home and for the first time, I let him talk, listened and didn't comment until the end (HUGE accomplishment for me)...but I wanted to make sure the words were his and not words I put in his head.

He also got home late - so I made him wait until it was convenient for me to talk - again, HUGE accomplishment.

Bottom line is - he took two days (of which I had no contact) to think about his actions and his course of recovery. And he does not like the person he has become and did alot of soul searching to see if those actions were newer learned actions or life long behaviours - and decided they were newere behaviours and therefore easier to correct.

I knew everything he was going to say, so I was prepared with an answer and what I was willing to do.

And I said I would wait until the first of the year, and when the first of the year came, I would evaluate if he kept up with his therapy and recovery and if he held up his terms in his plan to regain his financial stability and responsibilities. He understood and I am fully prepared to follow thru.

I went to my meeting on saturday and it was about gratitude - and I was grateful for that meeting.

But then old habits die hard - and he was gone all day - and I couldn't reach him by phone - and I went out of my mind AGAIN. I can tell everyone here how to stay distracted so they don't lose their mind when they go thru the same thing, yet I sit and worry myself sick over it. He finally contacted me and had good explanation for where he was - but still didn't help. He came home and said he would quit that job - which isn't the answer either.

I truly have to work on my issues around this situation - cuz it kills me every week - I can't seem to make progress. I will discuss it more in therapy.

So we have joint therapy this week, then the next two weeks we see the therapist separately....then one more jointly and then end of year will be here.

I still don't know if this is truly what I want, but figure in a few more weeks, I will know exactly where I stand - without emotion. Right now I am too lost to make a decision.

Thanksgiving was quiet...I stayed in my apartment until dinner time and dad was sleeping cuz he went out early to plow snow, so it was quiet and peaceful....for which I am thankful.

I go to my last meeting at church and they will be baptising me and I will become a member...not sure if it's something I want right now, but will talk more with pastor about it at next meeting.

well, time to run....will try to get back and check up with everyone later.....

Lolli - I read what's going on with you - my thoughts are with you - it can't be easy.

Gayle - hope things with you and yours is going okay.

Lost and Turnabout - thinking of you and thankful for all your input here.

Everyone else I didn't list - you guys are all the best - the support here is priceless.

November 29, 2005
9:37 am
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gayle
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Ali- I am proud that you listened to him and gave him the chance to tell you his plan. I think it is HUGE that he would consider quitting his job in NY to be with you in CT and that this was what he came up with on his own. It seems he is trying to do whatever it takes to be with you. Today is not a good day for me so I won't go on much more. I just hope things go the way you want them to! Good luck! Gayle

November 29, 2005
11:27 am
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Gayle,

don't be too quick to pat him on the back.

He has offered to quit NY altogether to save our relationship - and when I say, OK, do it...he changes his tune.

In the past, it was just a hook - he depended on me being too caring to say yes.

Now - I can't be sure. Only cuz he knows how much pain I am in - and how much it hurts - and he is genuinely concerned about me getting better.

It's hard to trust that he could change. He has made other changes, so anything is possible.

In the end, I told him it wasn't the job that is hurting - it's the idea that he isn't there when he says he is, and he doesn't keep me up to date on things. Like when plans change. I told him that if he called me to tell me plans change - if I call work and he's not there - then it would stop my thinking the worst case scenario - which includes cheating on me and lying to me.

He could still lie to me, but I have to trust he won't.

He also admitted he did tell me he would be home earlier, and forgot he had said it - and that's why he didn't call - cuz he had figured he had previously told me he would be home later - and not to hold dinner. He forgot the convo we had that he told me he would be home earlier. Mistakes happen.

Anyway - he gave me money without issue. He claims to be balancing his checkbook and using the budget. So I can't complain too much.

Also - no arguments so far this week - therapy is thursday.

All I can do is one day at a time - and know when it gets rough that I promised to hold out til end of the year and the end of the year is not that far away.

All in all, I WANT to BEAT this tendency of mine to flee when things get tough - that's my goal right now...so if I accomplish that, I will be doing good.

November 29, 2005
11:31 am
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gayle
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I think it is good that you are trying to work on that fleeing issue. I think he is making some progress and the money stuff is good. I guess wait and see is all you can do at this point. but you are talking and trying to work things out. That is a big step. Keep me posted. Gayle

November 30, 2005
6:02 pm
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(((Ali))), just sending you a warm hug to melt some snowy issues!! Take care!!

December 1, 2005
10:52 am
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Sin,

thanks for the hug - they help alot!

I responded to you on your thread.

I am doing okay - things are quiet and peaceful right now - bf will be home tonite, first time I will see him since early monday morning.

we have plans for the weekend, so things are okay.

December 2, 2005
9:23 am
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Last night's therapy was painful.

BF worked an almost 12 hour day and was exhausted. I was also tired and cranky.

We went to therapy anyway.

Last week was a good week, but the week before was bad, as many of you read here, I had tried to end the relationship then over the eviction issue.

So - we started talking about that - and how we communicate became painfully evident to the therapist.

She wants us to "get over" what happened in the past - erase it from our minds - start with a clean slate.

She wants me to ease up on him cuz he is TRYING. I said trying isn't paying the bills - and she said I was hurting him by thinking this.

I was honest, saying how I was losing the will to keep working on this relationship. Losing faith that this will work. Losing hope. That I was tired and exhausted by everything.

he cried, I cried - and she kept reminding us that we love eachother, but keep pushing eachother away and hurting eachother.

I said I wasn't sure that I knew what I was doing and where I wanted this to go. He says he knows. I said I had a bad track record with relationships and that I wasn't so sure I wasn't screwing up again, or that I knew what love really was.

I tried saying that as long as he is in NY, things have always been hard for us - and she claims it's not his fault. I said he made choices that put us in this position and she said that in order to heal, we have to put that all behind us. I am angry that we are in this position because of the choices he made. I can't just "put it behind me".

We both left in silence. And got home, went straight to bed with a goodnite kiss.

I go to therapy alone next week and he goes the week after - then we have our next appointment together, to discuss where to go from there.

I have a huge secret, which is eating away at me, but if I tell him, it's going to create havoc again....I will discuss it with her and find a way to discuss it with him in the safety of her office.

I have serious trust issues and they are getting worse every day - instead of better.

I kept hoping that things would be better by now. I kept hoping things would be better by the end of the year. But the end of the year is fast approaching and I am so tired and so worn out by all this and I don't think we are any better off than when we started. Some things are better - I won't say nothing changed...but it's still so much of a struggle.

I am finding it hard to be optimistic about this. He buys into the idea that this is getting better and will get better - and I am not on board with it.

I tried to buy into the idea that his moving to NY would give him a second job and more time in the office. It hasn't. So how can I believe that anything is going to get better if the plans keep failing?

Today isn't a good day. And today I ask him if he will be home tonite and his answer is "hope to"...not yes, but hope to - which means there is a chance he won't...which is all I can focus on.

so hard to stay positive and hopeful.

December 2, 2005
9:56 am
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gayle
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Aww honey... At least you are talking about things and working on them. When I was married he never wanted to talk about anything and we ended up dovorced. So there is hope!! You have a secret? Well, I think talking to your therapist about it first will be good and then she can help you with it if you choose to talk to him about it later. (((HUGS))) Gayle

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