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Need support....alicat
November 21, 2005
8:58 am
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Hi guys.

I come here and always have such wise words for everyone...seems so hard to listen to my own voice sometimes.

Well, we got a letter stating that if our rent is not caught up by the 30th, and December's paid on time - they will start eviction proceedings.

Well, stupid me, gets on the phone and calls my bro and arranges for a loan, cuz now it's not about my BF, it's about me and my daughter.

Bro agrees to the loan - ONLY IF - I agree to "work off" the balance in trade - and then it's up to me to get money from my BF to pay me back. I think this is entirely fair since BF still owes bro $240 from July and has made NO attempt to pay a dime of it back. He can't...he's broke, plain and simple.

Well....last week we set up a budget - and already, he's arguing about following it...and since I have NO idea where his money goes - and can't control that...I had to let go of it. So then I asked for money towards rent and had had an argument at every turn....in the end, he had a convenient excuse about not being able to find his money this morning - so he left nothing.

I am soooooooooooooooooo tired of the stress.

Then - we had this agreement that when I called in the morning - it would be to say hello and how are you and stuff...see how the day was going...nothing heavy....well, today I happened to ask if his bro was working with him, cuz he mentioned a plan to have his bro help him...and he got all snippy with me and it turned into an argument...and his complaint was he was at work and didn't want to deal with "all this"...so I told him I would let him get back to work, goodbye and I love you...he hung up on me.

I sent him two text messages - thanking him for hanging up on him...and telling him I should have listened to my gut (since my gut said not to call him today - since we got in fights the last two mondays) - but figured it would hurt his feelings if I didn't call...cuz it's part of our routine.

He texted back that he was having trouble hearing me with the truck running and that he hung up on me cuz of the "way" I said goodbye.

So I texted back that I would no longer be calling him in the mornings cuz I can't deal with the stress anymore...and also that as long as he feels he did the right thing and for the right reasons, that's okay. Yeah, guilt trip maybe?

Why are mondays always so hard lately??????

Anyway - I am gonna pay attention to what my own advice. I am gonna stop enabling him TODAY. Somehow I will get the rent money together...not sure how...but will figure it out...hopefully without having to borrow it or pay my bro back in hours...that was supposed to be my extra money for christmas....and I am going to ask him to take his name off the lease.

I also shut my phone off so I don't get his text messages all damn day.

This sucks having to deal with this so close to the holidays.

Part of me feels "sorry" for him that he is so miserable about not being able to pay all his bills. But the other part of me is downright ANGRY that he might have been able to prevent this. I don't know how...but that's how I feel. I know he feels genuine remorse about the situation, but remorse isn't gonna keep us off the streets.

Part of me, the rescuer, thinks that no matter what, I will have to come up with the rent - whether he leaves or not. But my mom pointed out that I need to decide which is more important - having a house or having a boyfriend...and that I have to look out for me and my daughter.

She is right...and I know that...but I am having a helluva time accepting it.

I keep thinking if I give him a little more time...just a few more weeks....that this will all be a memory....but the little voice inside me says I am just in denial and fooling myself. And that his attitude about all this speaks volumes about how "easy" the next few weeks may be...or the outcome.

I know what to do...but I don't want to do it.....can you guys help me here?

November 21, 2005
9:05 am
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can't stop crying...this hurts so much.

I tried so hard to not get to this point emotionally...I wanted to be at a "better" place when I made any decision about this relationship.

I keep thinking I can't ignore this anymore...but then I think that I am just being impulsive and impatient.

I'm trying no contact for today - part of me things I am being manipulative, part of me thinks I am doing it cuz I can't deal with him, and if I get going, I will totally blow it with him.

I know that I am not going to let my brother give me the money. Either he comes up with the money, or he gets off the lease...that part I do know. I can't enable him. And if he can't...then that puts me and my daughter in jeopardy, and I can't have that either...so he will have to go.

Somehow I feel like he wanted this all along...some gut feeling...not that he conciously wanted it...but subconciously. I don't think he did this on purpose on any concious level, but on some subconcious level. I think he wanted to fail - like he wants to sabotage this for his own reasons - to feed his failure issues. Which I know I can't change - but feel like if I end it, it will feed the issues and make him worse...and I don't want to do that.

This is so freaking hard...I'm so lost.

November 21, 2005
9:11 am
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173piper
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Alicat-

You already know the answer. It is just hard to accept. Been there, done that.

It is hard to let go. It is hard to walk away. But your mom is right -- you need to decide if you want a house and a safe place for your child. Or a boyfriend who keeps making excuses. He will not stop his behavior until he chooses to. YOu cannot make him. He can only change when he finally grows up, acts like a man and wants to change.

It is hard. I know. Put we all need to let go sometimes. I have gone through the same thing, you can read my thread "Big Discussion with Girlfriend". It was hard to set boundaries and move her out of my place, but I felt it was the only way. Hard - yes. Satisfying - yes, too.

Take care. YOu will do well in the long run even though it seems hard now.

November 21, 2005
9:21 am
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(((ali))), I agree that you already have the answers you need, sometimes you just need to talk and cry them out of yourself for a while first. And that's what we are here for.

The fact is, you had an agreement and you where deceived within the terms of that agreement and it is reflecting poorly upon and causing trouble for you--that is not ok, and there is no fair reason to have to defend yourself for reacting to that. Your frustration is completely apropriate, and your boyfriend is definatly in this instance manipulating you with taht. before you interact with him at all you may want to go back over the thread "stopping verbal abuse" as well as the thread "How to deal with Verbal Abuse". I don't know if your bf is ordinarily verbally abusive, but manipulating in this fashion is abusive in that it controrts the situation, leaves you feeling frustrated, helpless, and defending yourself when you are within your rights.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, Ali. You are a strong and wise woman, you are bigger than this and I know you will rise about it smelling like the lovely rose that you are. Hugs, ef

November 21, 2005
9:30 am
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gayle
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Hi there Ali- It sounds like you have your mind made up but your heart is fighting you on it. Remember to lean on your HP on this and be as calm as you can. Try hard to look at this objectively and remember to put you and your daughter first. I know you love him and you want nothing more than for you two to be happy. Sometimes we have to make hard choices to preserve our sanity. I know its close to the holidays and this really sucks. He loves you and you know that however, he is not responsible with money and its not your job to save him. He has to learn on his own how to be responsible. This might be what he needs to get hiself together. Honey, I wish I had some words of wisdom for you or something really inspirational to say but all I can offer is a shoulder to lean on and an ear to listen to you. Just keep posting and we can talk about it and maybe that will help you with your decision. ((((HUGS))))

November 21, 2005
9:44 am
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I know the answer.

And I know he is not a fighter.

Once upon a time he was...but he has no fight left in him.

well, he does...enough to fight with me.

But - he has no fight left to save this relationship.

and if we end it - he won't "see the light" and fix it and come back to me...he'll just chalk it up as another loss - and continue to call himself a failure and use this as another way to prove that point.

I know I can't fix this...or save him from his own demons.

Yet, my words show I think otherwise.

I keep thinking that since I have to come up with the money anyway - I might as well keep him around and see if he DOES turn this around.

The other part of me says I have lived with this hope for a long time now and it is only getting worse.

Part of me thinks that his tips at christmas time will "save this" and turn it around.

The other part of me thinks he can easily tell me he made less than he did...and spend it how he sees fit...or find reasons he needs to spend it on something else.

Part of me thinks I should give this another few weeks.

Part of me says I am foolish for waiting this long and need to cut my losses.

My family is willing to help - but if my bro gives me the loan - I have to work to pay it off and then rely on my BF to pay me back. Part of me thinks this won't happen in a time frame I am comfortable with.

I am so lost.

November 21, 2005
9:58 am
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revelation
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Ali...my dear, I feel you pain, I know where you are right now, I've been there, just before me and fiance broke-up. Look, you have to look after yourself, its really vital.

I got so stressed out the past few weeks with all the goings on and the miscarriage and stuff...that last monday I ended up in hospital attached to a heart monitor, I'm only 31 and I keep fit, thats just not right. Ali, I hate to say this, I hate to be harsh...but if you don't look after yourself and detach from his problems something like this will happen to you. I don't have a daughter depending on me, perhaps if I did I would have given myself a slap on the wrist before now.

Ali, you just have to concentrate on yourself, if you worry about him you'll ruin your health...if you help him out you are enabling him to depend on you even more...something will crack eventually...so eash the strain, prioritise and categorise. Write it all down, all of your worries in list form, then underline the worries caused be him, and underline the stuff that he should be taking responsibilities for, then scratch them off the list and forget them, they are NOT your problem.

Take care my dear,
Rev.

November 21, 2005
10:00 am
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Ali,
I am sorry things are so stressful for you. Remember what you told me? Baby steps... You are strong and you know what you need to do it. It doesn't make it hurt any less but it sounds like you would be better to cut your losses now. What would he do if you weren't around? I bet he would find som eway to pay the rent. It is sad but when someone thinks you are going to fix everything for them, why do they need to fix it for themselves. Maybe this would be a good wake up call for him. Hang in there honey... Hugs, Lost

November 21, 2005
10:28 am
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Sad part is, he lived for so long in his mother in law's home - and the rent was frequently late - and he had loans out with everyone.

yeah, red flag, I know....which is the reality that triggered me to turn down my brother's loan offer - after all, he still owes my brother from last time.

His family has always bailed him out or helped him out.

He said that he had learned and was trying to correct it and get on the right path.

But the right path includes getting another job, which seems to be elusive for him, for reasons I can't understand. I know he's trying, but it isn't happening.

So until he makes enough to be able to get on the right path, we are stuck in this hole.

Letting go scares me...afraid he will go back to his wife...afraid he will sink lower and not make his way back to me...afraid I failed AGAIN.

Another thing that is making me think twice about taking out a loan is that in therapy, he said that when I bought the car for him, it buried him...that if I had just let him get the car from his wife, we would have been okay. He said I didn't want the car cuz it was hers. Reality was, I did say that, but the bigger factor was it had 78K miles on it and with 1k miles a week commute, it would add up and the car would be worthless. Already he is at 86k - and if he got the car in july, he would be at 96K - and the car would be dead by now. He is currently complaining it needs new tires NOW and before long, the engine will need work or replacing. So HOW was this a good idea? All he keeps focusing on was my statement that it was her car.

Anyway, bottom line is - he has too much debt for me to take on another loan for him. Not to mention my fear that he will not pay it back or later throw it in my face that it was my decision to take out the loan (right now he is saying buying the car was my decision - and he didn't have a choice but to go along with it - which is bullshit).

I sent him an email - without emotion - outlining his options. I kept it clean - did not over explain why I was doing it. I simply told him his options. He hates emails, so I DID overexplain why I was sending it - which is cuz I am crying too hard to talk on the phone, and that I won't see him face to face until wednesday, or not at all if the weather turns crappy. And I said I had to protect my daughter and I and can't live with this stress. That he has a choice to fix it or move out. I told him I loved him and really didn't want it to come to this - and that it is killing me to have to do this.

I know he will rage about getting an email like this - but I felt that having it in black and white will make it a reality - and I have something in writing to hold on to...so there is no denying what I said and what I didn't say. I also made him responsible for paying me back this money if he chooses to move out.

I'm so scared.

November 21, 2005
11:22 am
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Good for you Ali! You should be proud of standing up for yourself. I know what you mean about the emails. I seem like I can get it out much more clearly when I type it. I get to emotional the other way. Let us know how you make out. Hugs, Lost

November 21, 2005
11:33 am
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(((ali))), you are being so strong right now, and so honest with yourself and others too. That's going to help you so much while you go through this to do it all in a way that doesn't damage you or your integrity or your hard work on yourself thus far.

Do you have a game plan for that rage from the e-mail when it happens? My therapist always says "Don't explain yourself on demand, don't justify right and wrong if you are dealing with another competent adult--asking you to do that is just to create a distraction from their own responsabilities". SHe suggests a strategic sentance you will not be dragged away from--with my ex it's "the rules are the Rules, D-, and no means no. It is not up for discussion or debate" (it's usually about a visitation matter for us). And no mtter what, that is ALL I will say, calmly, on the matter, it is all that is relevent. YOu may concider repeating no matter what "the only thing we are disscussing here is what needs to be done. Your options are--", and refuse all other discussion? This is a matter of you taking care of business to protect yourself, not a matter of anything else, and if he feels embarassed, resentful, martyr-ish, what have you, he will try to turn it into anything but the facts, you must stick firm to them.

How's your heart holding up? Thinking of you today, hon. Hugs, ef

November 21, 2005
11:49 am
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lollipop3
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(((Ali)))

You said:

"Somehow I feel like he wanted this all along...some gut feeling...not that he conciously wanted it...but subconciously. I don't think he did this on purpose on any concious level, but on some subconcious level. I think he wanted to fail - like he wants to sabotage this for his own reasons - to feed his failure issues. Which I know I can't change - but feel like if I end it, it will feed the issues and make him worse...and I don't want to do that"

Oh boy, do I understand that statement. You have articulated the exact reason that I stayed with b/f for so long. I also felt "responsible" for his feelings. I still struggle with this today. I wanted to so badly to prove that I was different from the others. I kept thinking if only I do this, If only I do that (I believe that's why it's called the what if's!). I know in my codependent heart that he loves me and wants to be happy....but he is sabotaging his own happiness. He is creating what he fears most. If only I stick it out, he will see that. Unfortunately Ali, this is an illusion.

I wish it did work that way. Hell, every one of us on this site wishes it could work that way.

But the truth is....it doesn't work that way. You can't fix him. You are not responsible for his feelings of failure. You cannot make him want to change.

I know that you are afraid. It's okay to be afraid. It is not okay to let that fear paralize you. It is not okay to put yourself and your child at risk.

Here is where I give my usual speech that I can't tell you what to do. The best suggestion I have is to protect yourself. Keep the focus on you and your daughter. Stop trying to change him. Stop making budgets for him. Stop telling him what he should or should not do and start taking care of you.

Get his name off the lease. Pay what you have to pay. Let him fall. If he wakes up and comes back to you a "changed" man....than so be it, but in the meantime, it's time to start taking care of Ali.

I know first hand how hard this is Ali. You know I have been exactly where you are. It was bad. Things seemed to be getting better....I thought we were making progress. I tried to best of my ability to make it work. Nothing has changed. It sucks, I know. It hurts, I know.

Take care my friend,
Lolli

November 21, 2005
12:06 pm
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He just called.

And of course, he is blaming me for all this.

Saying we had a plan and I bailed on the plan AGAIN.

And I did...AGAIN.

He reminded me there is no going back. I told him I knew this.

He started in on me and I was caught on the defense....AGAIN.

I told him assertively, that this morning he had no right to snap at me, had he just said "no, I didn't talk to my brother", everything would be okay...but since he snapped at me, it is NOT okay.

So, he did the sappy "I'll come get my stuff" routine...kept reminding me that since I broke up with him in an email (again) that it is my decision and he will honor it. He has done this before - manipulated me by making me feel guilty for my decision. And it always worked, I always broke down and took him back. But I realize that I said it, so now I have to stick to it. And I have to deflect his guilt trips - and not let it get to me.

And now I am bawling my eyes out again.

November 21, 2005
12:11 pm
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His defense right now is that we agreed to a plan and it was set and now I am pulling the plug on the plan, like always.

I tried telling him his words are what prompted me to pull the plug.

Four times in the last week he told me not to bank on money he didn't have YET. He said that this morning at three a.m. And now he is saying he can't be held responsible for saying it at 3 a.m. cuz he isn't thinking straight.

How can I trust he will pay me back if he believes he can't bank on money he doesn't have - how can I pay his bills without a guarantee he will pay them back?

He always accuses me of not listening to him...yet he doesn't realize how HARD it is to understand what he says. And yet, THIS time - I heard him loud and clear - and because I reacted to it - he is holding it over my head that I made the decision and he will honor it.

But in the end, the blame is on me for bailing before the plan had a chance to work.

November 21, 2005
12:14 pm
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Ali,

I am sorry. Don't let him blame this on you! Just remember this about you and your daughter. It's okay to be upset it’s only natural. But remember if you let him manipulate you into feeling sorry for him chance are you will go through all of this pain again. You just need to make a commitment to yourself and say enough is enough. You are a smart girl, everything will work out.

Hugs, Lost

November 21, 2005
12:19 pm
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Ali,

It is so easy for him to point fingers at you. He can't seem to take responisbilty for ANYTHING! That seems to be the root of all of this. Just remember he can't even see what he is doing wrong, he obviously isn't going to change. He can't grow and change until he admits his own faults. You are doing the right thing.

November 21, 2005
12:23 pm
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ooohhh.... (((Ali))),

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

I swear to God they all read from the same damn handbook.

Case in point: I made it very clear to b/f that I loved him and I wanted our relationship to work , then I told him that we would not get back together unless he apologized to me and got help. Over the next few weeks, we remained "friends". We still talked every day, he still referred to me as his girlfriend, he talked of future plans, what we would do for the holidays, etc. He wanted me to go to court with him, so like a fool, I took the day out of work to go with him. Well......fast forward to the weekend. We made plans for Friday...he blew it off for work. We made plans for Sat.....he blew it off for work. We made plans for Sun......he blew it off because he was tired and his back hurt. So, I got angry. He couldn't understand why. When I explained it to him, he said..."what's your problem....when we were at court last week we were acting like boyfriend and girlfriend...now you're acting like this".

I said, "sure when you were getting what YOU wanted everything was fine, now that my needs are NOT being met, now it's a problem." Then he said it......"well, we're just friends....remember...that's the way you wanted it."

There it is....clear as the nose on my face. When he is getting what he wants we are "boyfriend and girlfriend".....when I want something we are "just friends" because that's the way "I" wanted it.

Didn't work this time. I told him... Nice try but sorry, that ain't gonna work. I've got enough friends, I ain't looking for another one. We really haven't spoken much since.

Ali, do not allow him to switch this up on you. He knows exactly what you want. He is CHOOSING not to give it you and laying the blame at your feet. Don't let it happen.
Show him that you mean business this time. Who knows, when he realizes you are serious, he may come around. But if you don't show him that you mean it.....the cycle will just start over.

Love,
Lolli

November 21, 2005
12:33 pm
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How can he come around?

Truth is, it's ending because I told him that if he didn't get the money together by the 30th - he would have to take his name off the lease.

I NEVER NEVER NEVER said he had to end the relationship.

And yet, like my dad with the beer incident - he is ending the relationship because he can't be in my house with me.

He can't come around or come back - what's done is done - he simply cannot get the money together by the 30th - so in his eyes, those are the requirements, and since he can't meet them, we are done.

There is no coming around...I don't see how.

November 21, 2005
1:16 pm
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turnabout
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Good grief, ali... I don't know what to say and have so much to say at the same time. God love you, honey, this is a ringer.

Your last post answered a big question for me. I was reading along the whole thread thinking I must have missed something from another thread b/c I didn't see why kicking him out of the house meant kicking him out of your life. It's only sensible that you not allow his irresponsibility with money ruin your credit or your relationship with your brother. It's an unfair expectation for him to think you should sit there and let him do, and if he were making your welfare a top priority, he wouldn't allow you to do it. He would voluntarily move himself out. And you know you deserve to be a top priority to the man you love. You know that, right? You've done all you can to support him. You've extended yourself to do so. He needs to extend himself a little bit, don'tcha think?

It's fine to have sympathy for his troubles, but you can't help him by letting yourself be dragged down by them along with him. Two people in the pit together can't be much help to each other. You'll be doing him no favor by allowing that to happen.

He has options and you know it. He has no excuse for not seeing them except for NOT WANTING to see them. If they don't exist, then he really is helpless and therefore can't be to blame. That's his reasoning, and he'll stick with it as long as everyone lets him. In this sense you were right about him wanting to fail. Over a decade ago a therapist once told me he was afraid that I would make my parents' fears that I would fail at college a "self-fulfilling prophecy." He was right. I did. I accepted all the negative fears they had for me as being intrinsic truths ABOUT me, and that's what he's doing. I had to hit rock bottom before I had incentive to change. I think most people do. And my parents did right this time by supporting me without going out of their way to SAVE me.

That's why it seems to me that the relationship MIGHT be able to continue even if he moves out. You might tell him that. It's his own "all or nothing" thinking that is in the way. But then again, he probably won't hear you. As you said about the car, he fixates on certain things you say and ignores everything else. (My ex did this. When we were just friends I'd told him that I wasn't in love with him and didn't think I ever could be. Guess what... I was wrong! But he never heard me change my tune b/c he fixated on that ONE thing I said & wouldn't let go. I spent 6 mos. trying to convince him of my feelings which he claimed he was never aware of once he started going w/ someone else. That was when he brought up what I'd told him YEARS earlier. It's a sad fact. They hear what they want or will NOT hear what they're afraid to believe.)

Sorry to ramble about my own stuff. I just feel so bad about what you're going through. I know it's torture! And what you're doing is sooooo hard. I just want to reinforce your decisions b/c I remember being in that place and all the self-doubt I had... how I let his words get to me. I can't find who said it (lolli, i think?), but they were right. He's blaming you to try and deflect attention from his own responsibilities. He's selling a rotten bag of goods with that one. Don't let him.

Much love,
turn

November 21, 2005
1:27 pm
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Shaney
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((((Ali)))) - Hi girl :o)

I remember coming on to these boards about the same time as you, and you have all the same issues with him now, that you did back then - you were giving him more time and more chances to turn things around. But he continues to disappoint you. The biggest difference that I see in your situation now, is that you have grown and he hasn't. You used to be a hell of a lot angrier, and more controlling - and you have improved so much - I have to hand it to you. You have some so far, whether you believe that or not .

You know you deserve better, and you know you can get better. Ask yourself how much he has really changed since you came on these boards. Are his efforts genuine, or are they just bones thrown your way to keep your relationship barely above water? Is he really worth all of this?

The reason we don't leave someone that isn't good for us, is because we don't want to go through the PAIN of a breakup. We'll SUFFER through our relationship for years and years, but we won't experience that PAIN even though it will take us away from the suffering. Why are we willing to accept the suffering over the pain? At least after the pain is over, we have life again. It's something to think about, because you're obviously suffering - and when you suffer, your daughter suffers. Do what is best for the both of you. Only you know what that is - staying to work it out, or breaking free.

I hate to hear you so upset. You're a wonderfully intelligent lady who needs a partner who can give you just as much as you give to them. Don't sell yourself short by having to drag someone through life - your life is more valuable than that. Be strong, my friend. We're all here for you.

November 21, 2005
1:28 pm
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He is saying I agreed to this and that I pulled the plug (again).

Saying that he *finally* agreed to help (the loan) and even tho it killed his pride, he was accepting it as the only way out. Then I took that plan away - and it's killing me.

Says he can't trust me to stick things out like I said I would.

Guess I can't blame him for that one...

He figures it would all have been fixed by Christmas time. Yet, in the next breath, he says he can't bank on money he doesn't have right now.

So what do ***I*** trust?????

November 21, 2005
1:48 pm
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gayle
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Ali- he sounds like he is manipulating you in to feeling gulity for drawing a line and sticking with it. That is not fair to you. You should never feel guilty for taking care of your self and your daughter and shame on him for trying that. You have no other choice other than to stand your ground. I am proud of you! I know it is hard and it hurts but you have to take care of you! (((HUGS)))

November 21, 2005
1:50 pm
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Anonymous
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Ali, Trust your instincts!

November 21, 2005
1:53 pm
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Longstreet
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We are here for you Ali!!!!!

November 21, 2005
3:08 pm
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Anonymous
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How are you doing Ali?

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