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need advice re: 16 yo daughter & ex-BF
June 21, 2004
10:14 am
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beka
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My 16 yr old daughter broke up with a boy several months ago that was emotionally abusive/needy. This was her 1st real love & she still feels deparately in love w/him even though she currently has a new, stable bf. Her ex was so needy-threatening suicide, obsessive, jealous, depressed-that my daughter realized he was keeping her from her goals. She is an honor student & gifted athlete who was under-achieving because her relationship with him was so demanding, time-consuming, and unhealthy. The boy recently took an over-dose of pills because of her, and I had to pick her up from school because she was hysterical. She missed 2 days of schools & he ended up going to a party 2 days after being released from the hospital! I contacted his mother & she said that he did it because of my daughter,but he didn't mean to kill himself-he just had to save face w/his friends because he threatened so many times. He is now "trash talking" my daughter & she is an emotional wreck. She believes he is the love of her life, but she also had the wisdom to know he was ruining her life & broke things off. However she can't get over him. They are not in contact, however, he has become friends w/all of her friends, so he can keep indirect contact. My daughter is absolutely miserable & it is affecting everyone in the family. I have made an appt. with a counselor, but have to wait a few weeks. I don't know much about codependency, but I suspect that's what is going on. They were friends for a year before their romance, so she really misses that, too. He would constantly call her crying, threatening suicide, angry, or whatever it would take to get her attention whenever she wanted to see her friends, etc. I don't know how to help her get over him! I am desperate & would appreciate any info.

June 21, 2004
11:39 am
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Worried_Dad
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Ummm, the girl is a child--she ought not to have a boyfriend in the first plaze.

June 21, 2004
11:58 am
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Anonymous
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First of all, this young man did not make a suicide attempt because of your daughter. He made a suicide attempt because he chose to make a suicide attempt. He can try to blame your daughter if he wants to, but she didn't put a gun to his head and threaten to pull the trigger if he didn't OD. She is an innocent victim.

It is common for abusers to threaten suicide and blame their ex for what they are doing. If he is or has said things like "If I can't have you, then no one will." this is a big red flag. He may well try to take her with him next time.

It's good that you are working on getting her some help. This boy is putting way too much of an emotional burden on her and she needs some help getting out from under it.

You are doing right by your daughter!

Ren'ai

June 21, 2004
12:28 pm
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tooscared
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I think that your daughter is very lucky that she can come to you for her emotional support and that you are not belittling her feelings right now. This boy has serious problems and your daughter is very wise to get away from him. Hopefully she has some good friends that will see through this boy's behavior and not let him invade her privacy and space.

The counseling sounds like a good idea so that at least she can gain some skills to get away from this type of abusive behavior from this boy. The best thing that you can continue to do as her mom is be there for her and keep the communcation between the two of you open. Best wishes for both of you and hang in there.

June 21, 2004
12:59 pm
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Wanttobewell
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Hi,,,

I agree with Ren'ai. She really needs to understand that she isn't responsible in any way for his actions. No matter what he or anyone else says. He made a choice. He did not do this "because of her." You already know that this is just not a good situation. Have you talked with the school guidance counselor, etc.? I would also talk with her friends and her friends' parents about this so that they understand what is going on here, that he is keeping "indirect contact," through them and, also, they need to understand that this is not your daughter's fault in any way.

His trash-talking of her needs to be addressed also with the principal of the school, the guidance counselor, and the boy and his mother.

I would leave no stone unturned to make sure she realizes that HE is the one with the problem. Unfortunately, he's picked her to be his target, and it sounds as if his mother doesn't have a clue about anything. I sure hope she's getting him some help or that social services or whoever is taking care of this.

Since it sounds as if she's really struggling and upset because she thinks he's the love of her life, you might push for a sooner appt. or find someone else who can see her without having to wait so long. I know how teenage girls can be, and I know you're struggling too.

Right at this point in her life is the time she needs to learn about these types of people, the red flags to look for, how he tried to control her by his threats of suicide and attempt at suicide, etc.

She's really young to have to deal with something like this, especially since kids this age have so much to deal with anyway. It would be a good idea to keep her fairly close to home as much as possible until you can get a handle on this situation.

Your daughter may think all of this is a bit overboard and may not want you to talk to anyone at the school about it or her friends, but she doesn't know what's best right now. You seem to know pretty much what's going on though, and even if she doesn't like it, it's going to be up to you to help her understand and get her the help she needs and protection from her ex-boyfriend. Even though she thinks he is the love of her life, it doesn't look as if he feels the same way. Otherwise, he'd have HER best interest in mind instead of trying to control her with his threats and actions and then talking her down when he doesn't get what he wants.

I'm sorry to go on so, but this is just the beginning of a pattern for her if she doesn't deal with it now, and you don't want that type of life for her and neither does she. Just read some of these threads if you haven't already, and it will become so much more clear what she's in for if this is left without being dealt with.

This ex-boyfriend really needs to be dealt with!!!!

Hang in there MOM!!! We're here and will give any suggestions we possibly can on how to help!!! W.

June 21, 2004
1:17 pm
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sissy2
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One word counseling! I went through the same when I was a kid her age she is so young and impressionable and unfortunatly she will beleive what he tells her. I sounds to me like maybe it is time for tough love. Think about this-if he will hurt himself what is he capable of? If neccesary get a restraining order. But move slow or you will push her closer to him and farther from you. Teens love to go for the oppisite of what there parents want when it comes to love. This could be a very scary situation soon or it could just blow over- do you want to take that chance with your baby? The are help groups she can go to people her own age to talk to cause lets face it, when it comes to our kids point of veiw we are old and don't know what were talking about. Just remember don't push to hard. Another aproach is to suggest the two of them going to counseling together, Maybe it will get him the help he needs if his parents aren't doing it. Maybe your daughter will see you are behind her and not against her, just suggestions somtimes go a long ways. hope it helps.

June 21, 2004
4:37 pm
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beka
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Thanks to everyone for the great support/responses-I don't feel so alone! I agree that she doesn't NEED a boyfriend, but forbidding it would only push her to rebel. Right now she does come & talk to me, but it is a fine line we walk with teens. I don't want her sneaking around behind my back. I have been in touch with his mother & apparently he is (or was)in counseling after his overdose. His parents are having their own marital problems and I think his needs are being neglected. I have also talked to the school counselor & she has spoken to my daughter. Months ago I informed the counselor that this boy was cutting & burning himself. The counselor is very worried about my daughter, but can't speak freely to me regarding the ex due to confidentiality issues. This boy is so manipulative that he has turned several of my daughter's friends against her because he is so pitiful. My daughter does not defend herself & explain the emotional abuse because she doesn't want to talk badly about him-she is very innocent, trusting & forgiving. I think a self-help group with someone her own age would be very helpful. You all really seem to understand what my daughter and I are going through-THANKS!

June 21, 2004
7:35 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Beka,

Bless you... teenagers are hard, and I consider myself fortunate, as for the most part mine were all pretty emotionally even. But, the hormones!

Personally, we did not let our's date until they were 17, but eveyone has their preference. However, after reading some of what I have on this board, I wonder if we didn't do them a favor by making them wait. That way they were a little better to handle things emotionally.

However, for the here and now - definitely counseling. Also, and feel free to print this out for your daughter O.K.? But, basically?

She got lucky, she got out. This kid is a maniupulator through and through. If he is contacting her over the phone, if that is how he is getting through to her, block your number. Have her change her e-mail addy also if he is getting through that way. I'm assuming they go to the same school? With it being summer, hopefully things can cool a bit. If not, keep in constant contact with her counselor in keeping some distance. You might also want to tell her his suicide threats are just that threats. He tells her this to get a reaction, and he "attempts" it for sympathy and as you say "to save face." Someone should tell him, that one of these times, it just might work. But, in the meantime if he trys to tell her again, she needs to reply "I'm really sorry that you feel like you would like to hurt yourself." - and keep on going.

Now, for her friends. The ones that are really her friends will stick by her. The others? We all know friends come and go, and the true ones are worth keeping. But, I would suggest when they try talking to her about him, she needs to reply "I really appreciate you trying to keep me up with what is happening with Bubba, but I'm really not concerned with how he is any longer - how are YOU doing?" She will be amazed at how fast that works.

Above all, though, and I'm not trying to scare you - but, please keep on your guard. My middle daughter ended up with one of these wonders during college, and did not tell us all that he was putting her through. He ended up putting her in the hospital. Now, he was an extreme cause, but, if this kid is 16 and acting like this - if left unattended to (with his parents ignoring him), he can graduate to the physical abuse too.

She just needs to keep away from him. I know it's hard, first loves always are. But, tell her there are more things and people for her to meet and date - she will find the right one.

Love,

Zinnie

June 22, 2004
11:57 am
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Wanttobewell
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Beka, it sounds as if you're doing a good job. I know it's a fine line to walk, as I have a 17-year-old daughter. She doesn't tell me everything, but she is pretty open with me. It is hard, I know. They are so innocent and trusting and have no idea what people are capable of doing, plus the emotions, school, friends, it's a wonder any of us make it. I hope she'll feel better after counseling and have a better understanding of how people try and manipulate. I talk to mine about it, but sometimes I know she just thinks of me as poor, OLD mom, who just doesn't understand. But hopefully some of it gets through. W.

June 23, 2004
10:11 am
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beka
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Zinnie,
Sorry to hear about your daughter. I do worry about physical abuse too. This boy has been known to punch a lot of walls. His parents' solution was to get him a punching bag! I have tried to warn my daughter of what he may be capable of doing. She does not see it because he has never shown aggression directly toward her. Just the wall or locker next to her!I'm proud of my daughter for doing the right thing & getting away from this kid, but she is still very emotionally attached. That is the biggest issue right now. She is dwelling too much on the good times, especially the year long friendship they had. She is an only child & I think she kind of bonded with him as a brother at first. Then things got romantic & he knew her so well that he became what he knew she wanted in a boyfriend. That was the beginning of his manipulation. Eventually his true personality took over & when she started to pull away, he started the suicide threats.

W-thanks for the reassurance. My daughter will be 17 in August. Hopefully they are listening to us more than they let on!

Beka

June 23, 2004
11:05 pm
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Zinnie
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Beka,

Not to scare the tar out of you or your daughter, but please, please, please - take heed O.K. If he has been known to punch walls, and has parents who think he does no wrong... pull up the thread "My Daugther - Sigh's of Relief" and read the whole thing. It details the hell my child has gone through. When this happened, she was living in Vancouver. I'm in Dallas, and the rest of the family is in Montreal. I would give anything to have my daughter be O.K. and whole again.

Don't get me wrong, she is doing better - she is actually getting married now in December, which I would have never believed two years ago. Two years ago, I was sitting a vigil in her room in ICU, so you see this is a miracle for me.

But, this kid that you describe? He is a little manipulator in the making. Also, pull up the "Charmer/Abuser" thread - read that and tell me if you see this kid.

Z.

June 24, 2004
12:55 pm
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beka
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Zinnie,
How do I find those threads?

Beka

June 24, 2004
7:41 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Beka,

If you go to the top of the page where you pick which thread you want to read, you will see there is a "Search" area. Type in the name of the thread and it will pull up.

Z.

June 24, 2004
11:29 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Beka,

Here is Ladeska's writing on the "Charmer/Abuser" - I hope that you will read this, and pass it on to your daughter. Again, I'm not trying to scare you, but if I can prevent someone else daughter from being hurt like mine was, well, I will be up on that soap box.

Here is the post...

Ladeska 18-Sep-02 I put this writing of mine on the threads a while back, but see the need for it again. I read what Tracylyn wrote and know that there are others of you out there who have the same issues. So, here it is again... hope it helps you guys somehow. And even though I wrote it from a woman's point of view about a man like this, if you are a man having problems with a controlling woman - you can read alot here that is the same regarding her as well. It just has more of the other kind of slant to it. But the door does swing both ways, for sure. How You Become Prey to a Charmer/Abuser Personality? First, I would like you to know that when I say "abuser" in the above title, I may not be talking about obvious abuse, as in, physical violence or yelling and screaming. Passive/aggressive abuse can be just as deadly and is actually - more used by - people who are more advanced in the arena of........"charm"...... as I will speak of it here. Obviously, we want to know how we ever get caught up in a spiderweb in the first place. If we were conscious of what we were doing, we would not be doing it. Or at least, a great number of us would not be doing it. This personality that I refer to as charmer/abusive will be called the C.A. throughout the rest of this writing. You need to view a C.A. as someone who probably does not have the same values as you - at all. They are a chameleon because it serves their purpose. They quickly "put on" whatever "you are" and "need" in order to - use you for whatever they need from you. They are, indeed, a great sales person. The kind that "does not" repel you in the beginning, but instead, almost magically - draws you closer and closer and closer very quickly. How do they gain entrance into your life? Read the following and take the time to look back over your life. There is opportunity here for life changes. 1. A C.A. looks for victims with the following characteristics: low self-esteem, a past with a lot of trauma, neediness, fairy tale type thinking, maybe even someone with a little rebelliousness (to some degree...), and a history of relationships with men that were not healthy. 2. They listen intently to you, as you, voluntarily tell them your innermost thoughts, secrets, deep hurts and dreams. They quickly assimilate from this - what kind of camouflage to weave "for you". You basically - tell them - what to become, in order that they might hide who they really are from you.....while erecting the man of your dreams right before your eyes. 3. While they may not come over completely to your way of thinking about everything, they will agree with you on certain things that are very important to you. For example, if you have been abused in your life, they will assume the position of "protector" and will be a great empathizer regarding your pain, at least in the beginning.... They look for the "red flashing lights" and become a ready-made ally for you in some way. If you are a single mother, he might all "too quickly" become super-dad, because he knows how vulnerable you are in this respect. 4. They quickly want to become physical with you because once that happens, you instantly have a cloud over your eyes. C.A.'s know this about women, especially wounded women and they use it to their utmost advantage. If the sex is good, they assume you will follow them anywhere. C.A.'s know that touch and physical gratification in the sexual realm is like a drug of comfort for you. It's almost like heroin for some women who have been sexually abused. It tells a woman, in an instant "microwave push-button" sort of way - that they are wanted, worthy and valuable. Of course, this is so very far from the truth. But, it works. It works very well. And C.A.'s know that whatever radar you did have going on - will now be majorly - disconnected. Kind of like the burglar who snips all the wires to the phone and the electricity before entering the home to steal the valuables. 5. He listens to what you tell him about - how people have controlled or manipulated you in the past and he uses the same weapons, but may employ different maneuvers so you don't recognize it. For example, you say that you could not stand it when your last boyfriend was jealous of you all the time. He then never berates you like the other boyfriend did by always flying off the handle, but might take a more quiet and passive route of doing it. He may just drop little hints - constantly, but in such a way that you can't really call him on it. It just becomes the continual dripping faucet in your life. He's always calling you when you're supposed to be home for no apparent reason, or calling you right when you are to be home, or later that night he shows up with a convincing reason, but really might be more along the lines of - are you really alone? But, it's just really hard to nail him on his jealousy because he isn't really blatant about it in your book. This is "blatant", but "you don't recognize it as that". This is the important thing to see here. He will take advantage of your "cloudiness" here and will disguise it as him just caring about you in some way. And you will hesitate time and time again to really call it - for what it is. 6. C.A.'s will capitalize on your need - to be needed in their life. And you are needed by them. Otherwise, they would not be reeling you in. They know that you are going to equate your worth, as a woman, based on how much you can do for them and be "needed" by them. And.....they do need you, for something - for a season. So, consequently, in their mind - it's a fair trade. You need to be needed and they need something from you. Do not kid yourself into believing this is going to be a - fair trade. They stroke your ego and your emotional side for awhile and they drain from you - whatever they want. There is no need for them to have a conscience about this, because it's like any other sales contract. If you don't read the fine print, (which is what this writing is about) it's "buyer beware" and tough luck. A deal's a deal. You can project your own interpretation on it all you want. In fact, they want you to. They are counting on that. But.....your projection, regardless of how much you believe it.....doesn't ever make it fact. You buy the illusion, and they make a sale. Now which is it that is really more important here? Is it the need for you to get something of worth, or is it more important for you to be lied to because it feels familiar to you? Do you have an intense need - to be sold - to? If so, then who was the person in your past that you loved and yet they lied to you by what they said and how they treated you? Little girls believe very easily - when they are looking up to a very important man in their lives. They are larger than life and you are not able to look at them realistically - using a child's mind. If they betrayed you, abandoned you, rejected you, or assaulted you in any way - you are apt to make excuses for them because you need them in your life in some way. A grown-up version of this - will allow themselves to become prey to a charmer/abuser and you constantly second-guess your own thoughts and feelings and will make endless excuses for this man. You will just automatically think and feel with your little girl mind in this scenario of having a man in your life. Whereas in other areas of your life - you may be very mature, grown-up and responsible. You will not always do this - if you will allow yourself to learn - why you do what you do and how to gradually prevent it. It took time to lay down the foundation of what is unhealthy in your life. It will take time to rip it up and replace it with what is good and constructive. Again, time is your friend. 7. C.A.'s need for you to quickly put them into your inner circle - whereby you consider them to be of like-minds with you, a kindred spirit, soulmate sort of thing. When that happens - you basically dismiss a lot of red flags because you have completely validated them as - being like you in some majorly important ways. This are usually sensitive issues. Where you "really live" kind of issues. Therefore, you cannot possibly suspect them of a lot of things. It would be like putting yourself on trial! Think about this one - very hard. It is one of the worst "snags" that will hook you and take a great deal from you when the hook is ultimately withdrawn. They find that platform where you have your deepest hurts and strongest opinions and they become your ally, your cheerleader, your confidant, your defender, etc., etc. And "poof" you're sucked in hook, line and sinker. Oftentimes, the very people who have wounded you the worst, are the very same kind of people that can empathize with you - the best. And why wouldn't they? A predator - knows his victims - very well. They study them. They have to, in order to trap them. That's why I write things like this. We need to "study them" as well. It's called - playing "offense" instead of "defense". Learning to be savvy - will work on our part. Rest very assured - they will do "their homework" regarding "you". Be willing to be as quick to forgive yourself when it comes to making a mistake of character as you are quick to forgive them over and over and over again. 8. C.A.'s do NOT respect you as as a person - at all....BUT....they will go great lengths to convince you - that they do. They will quickly put you up on a high pedestal, where they supposedly worship at your feet. No one in the world is more beautiful or more important in their lives. You are the bomb! Just remember here that I use the word "quickly" a lot. Someone genuinely thinking you're wonderful and all that - isn't necessarily bad. But, it is highly suspicious when it happens - very, very quickly. Sure, in some rare case, you could just click - if you meet the right person. But, I warn you about making this your basis for all your relationships. You are a sitting duck. Genuine feelings that really matter in the long run - take time. C.A.'s don't have time. They have to do everything quickly. They want what they want and they want it NOW. So, hurry up and "get charmed", so this ball game can get underway! That's the way they look at it. They are counting on - your need to get instantly stroked all the way around - as their "in". This is your blind side and they go right for it. "Make her feel like a princess early on and she will eat out of your hand". 9. They will educate you on how women in their past have not met the mark with them. How they have failed them in some respect. It's called - giving you a challenge you cannot resist as a woman. Especially, if you are a woman who sees her worth being linked to - how much she is needed by a man. They are basically saying to you - "here, see what you can do. Prove to me, that you are worthy and prove to me that you can be better than all these other women. Do the impossible! I'm waiting..." And that's just what an abuse victim loves to hear.....and C.A.'s deeply know this. Abused women - are very used to being superhuman and performing the impossible and having to work for every sliver of love and attention they get. So, this challenge is more like alcohol being sat in front of an alcoholic. 10. C.A.'s hit you hard and heavy. They call you a lot, they want to be with you a lot. They will not respect your need for personal space, but will disguise with - just have to be with you because I can't get you out of my mind. They will usually talk to a lot about how wonderful they are, especially in the areas of "what you need them to be". It will be tailor made, just for you. They will dazzle you with their dance and try to effectively shut down all your protective barriers. They will also want to pull you away from your friends, family and children. They need to be tuned into - just them, if they are going to effectively charm you in a small amount of time. Like any teacher in any classroom - they have to have your undivided attention in order to "teach you" what they want you to learn. So, they don't want you comparing notes with anyone else or getting someone else's read on them. Someone who isn't blind to them - will see them for what they are and tell you. They want to get you in that "cloudy zone" as soon as possible where you are wrapped up with them physically and are providing them with what they need so you feel very validated and valued. They know that once you get effectively hooked in this regard - you will vehemently fight off anyone, including your own flesh and blood - in order to keep this realm of "importance" that you've got going on here. They count on you - to do just that. They load the gun for you and "you" pick it up and use it. That way - their hands are clean. You did their dirty work - for them. You end up driving away the very people that could help you the most. Precisely, my dear Watson. I said all that to say this.......Time is your friend, use it wisely. If there is one thing that is going to serve you well in the arena of protection - it is to hesitate, step back, go more slowly than you usually do. Read this writing often and "think" about what is going on - while it is going on. If you see at anytime - this is happening - you do not owe anyone a thick book on how or why you came to your conclusion to back off and cut it off. C.A.'s are absolutely great at convincing you - that you owe them this. As if, they are some powerfully important figure in your life. If they are doing this to you, they are obviously NOT important to you and should not be have that title - as you are leaving the relationship. I don't know how many times I see this and it is the killer snag that eventually pulls them back into the web. And I've seen women who are almost all the way out and have put many steps into walking away. But, the quick snap of this rubberband - is profound. We say we are walking away, but they interpret this to mean - we want to be talked back into it. Why? Because we still talk to them. We get caught up in telling them why and why not and how and when, etc., etc. They put US on trial - for what they did! We feel like we owe them all this. Whether we like it or not, we are giving great power to someone who does not consider our best interests at all. A person who respects you might ask for clarification to a degree, just so they understand you and then - that's it. They have enough self-respect for themselves and for you to listen to what you said and think you meant it. By your continuing need to engage with them - tells them - you don't mean a word you say when it comes to boundaries. It means nothing to them now. You may have barked at them, but that's about it. You're back in the ring trying to validate your assessment of things with the very person that did it to you in the first place. So, you are putty in their hands - simply because you walked back out onto the dance floor. Whatever respect you imagined them to have for you - is now completely and absolutely gone. You are definitely "prey" to them now. And they toy with you at will, because you have given them that power over you. They are putting a lot of trust in the fact that - you do not trust your own judgement. If you need to constantly talk to them about why you thought this or that or got hurt about whatever - they instantly know that you don't trust yourself. A confident woman would just call it and that would be the end of it. Some discussion would be allowed, but she would trust her own mind and her own feelings and would not feel compelled to get it validated from the direction those hurts came from in the first place. It sounds crazy when you really look at it like this. That you would want validation from the very person that hurt you, that affirms you made a sound judgement. Hm,m,m....so, like are we going to get that validation from this person? I would venture to say the odds of that happening are greatly stacked against you. But, this goes back to why you look like such easy prey to them. Oftentimes, if you happen to be a victim of incest, particularly - then so many times the man in your life is going to represent your father to you. So, if he has assumed the position and you have put a lot of trust in him early on - you are going to treat him like a father would be treated. You will give him this respect and position of power and authority over you - because that is what your little girl that you used to be - would do regarding the man in her life back then. And since you put this man in that super powerful position - the hardest person in the world to convince that a mistake has been made - is you, the victim. After all, they have "first chair" with us. We have to work it out, make it fit, or change it somehow. What I want to know is - how can someone who has known you for such a short time - have enough clout and importance in your life - to be allowed the right to speak louder and with more authority over the person who knows you best? And that person - is you, btw. C.A.'s will storm your gates in the beginning and in the end. They will initially storm your gates with quick flattery, comradery, and empathy. In the end they will storm your gates with insults, total disrespect and will look like someone you do not know at all. They will hit your gates hard and heavy with whatever works - when you decide to walk away. If trying to get you to give them a computer printout on how you arrived at your conclusion and talking it to death doesn't work - then they will storm your gates and bust every boundary as quickly as you can erect it. However, if they are not getting what they want - they will hit you hard, but not forever. There are more fish in the sea. So, do not move your boundaries - one inch. Say what you mean and mean what you say - consistently and absolutely and you don't owe anyone - an explanation - as to why! C.A.'s are spoiled brats. They respect nothing and no one. They count on you not being able to forgive yourself - for making a completely wrong assessment of - who they were or who you thought they were. That is one of their best and most dangerous weapons against you. If you are so proud that you cannot be humble enough to say - I made a mistake and walk away from it - they will have you for dinner - a second time around, and a third and a fourth time....until....."they don't need you".... anymore. It's high time - you learn how to live - offensively and be in control of your own life. It's called - Learning to live - Pro-active for your own well-being. A predator is completely turned off by anyone that lets time be their friend. So, if you want to know who a person is that you may be suspect of - just hold them at arm's length for awhile. Make them wait - for everything. The person who is genuinely interested in you - won't push. And they won't try and dazzle you in any way. They will........wait. If they don't do this and you jump.......you are in for - a ride. Just know it up front and put on your seat belt. Just always look at what you are doing and if you find it really hard to stop engaging long enough to be rational - just remember that if this person has become a larger than life dominant factor in your life.........they are not this godlike image of what your father was or should have been. They are - what they are and you have a good enough mind to call it. Please give yourself permission to see it - just like it is - with your adult mind, not your little girl mind. Super heroes - are fairy tales. Real villains - can do much damage while wearing - superman's cape. In fact - they can get away with anything and everything. Do not give them that power. Take your power back. What is real and true and good for you - will come by way of......you believing you have the right - to choose and not be chosen. Prey is "chosen" by the predator. You will become more mature in these areas, by educating - your little girl and helping her to grow up. She got stuck back there somewhere and who could blame her? I wouldn't. But, you can take her by the hand and teach her, so that the voice you listen to - isn't a little girl's cries and screams for that one special man to love her. It will be the voice that says - I am wiser and older. I know what I want and what I don't want. I know where I'm vulnerable and where I am strong. My radar is up and running and I am doing the choosing, not the other way around. I am in control of my life. I wish you peace and I hope you want that as well. The glass is half full and on the table in front of you. It's time for..........."you". And if people don't support you in this along the way - ditch them. They were never in your court to begin with and it's better they sent you a red flag - so that you know who they are now. Right? Just smile and say - thank you very much, I needed that piece of information about "who you are".

June 26, 2004
5:05 pm
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beka
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Zinnie,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like my daughter's ex is a C.A. in the making...he is still young, but has many characteristics described in the thread. I also read about your daughter-I am speechless! It honestly scared the $#@& out of me!I often worry about what this kid is capable of...I think the fact it happened so long after your daughter broke up with him, I know not to let my guard down for a while. I thought my family had been through a lot! You all must have incredible strength. My best of wishes to you & sincere thanks for your help.

June 26, 2004
6:39 pm
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Zinnie
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Hi Beka,

As one Mother to another - don't let that guard down. People like him - they wait. Why do they wait? They are predators.

Just do what you need to do to keep her safe. On one had I cannot tell you how much it hurts to be talking to my child and have her forget what we were talking about.

But... I would rather remind her - then have only a headstone to talk to.

Z.

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