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Nature vs "nurture" ...at its best ...
July 24, 2005
3:25 am
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greywolfess
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Wow. Here I sit ... overcome with this incredible reality.... about me .. my risks, my fears, my love --my tears .... I don't know when it all began really ... somewhere in my childhood most likely .... as it begins with us all .... Thankfully I was born with a good heart ... and somehow, I have always found a way to believe in true love.... but only inside myself ... as part of fairytales apparently ... the question is ... Do I believe, then, in fairytales? I MUST! Because this whole time ...I've apparently been living with a rather untouchable core ... Within that core is the bridge between fairytale and reality... How does one reveal it to others? ... while so guarded and locked up tight?... And when did that happen in the first place? ... I acquire a significant "other" in my life ... of whom I will only allow so close ... Yet (this is where my codependency comes in) I will bend over backwards for them, overwhelm them with my efficiency ... almost as if I'm trying to make up for my lack of openness on that deeper level ... I believe I do this to distract them specifically from getting any closer ... The closer they try to get, the more I try to distract and turn into an instant worker-bee ... What the hell is up with THAT? ... If my significant partner becomes overwhelmed--then I know I've "done my job", because THAT's when they might BACK OFF .... Puts me in a "safe" zone ... in just enough time to give the .... "I know. Its not you its me" speech --apparently I found a way to build on this speech so that it APPEARS as though I am the wounded one and can thusly slither away undetected. And once I'm done, I'm done .... Then I won't "take them back" ... Only, in reALITY ... I guess I really AM wounded ....--STILL - from some far away place in some time long ago ... and I haven't gotten OVER IT! And the only guys I DO date are those who come after ME... And not those who just show interest ... but those who jump through frickin hoops and do crazy overwhelming things just to get a date with me!! ... --showing courage and prowess ...therefore showing they're strong enough to possibly RESCUE me in a round-a-bout sort of sorry-assed way! GAWD!!! HOW PATHETIC !! And EVERYTIME a relationship ends for me ... its messed up because it, like ... hurts SO GOOD. WTF?? And for years I watched the movie "SPLASH" after a break up to feed my "core" to believe in the spirit of true love again --pure as the white driven snow... and keep my expectations high ... when in reality, what I REALLY believe is that I'm only going to get let down again ... and again .... and again ... because NObody can really live up to MY expectations about true love! Now its the movie "50 First Dates". (Hell, at least I finally changed the movie). And what did frickin Disney know about true love anyway? Is that supPOSE to be reality? How could it be a fairytale if someone "thought" of it? I mean, its not like Disney was thinking up the Looney Tunes characters. Doesn't the saying go, if you can dream it you can do it? ... Why so I feel so WEAK that way? ... Which explains why I try to compensate on the outside ... YIKES! Anybody ever go through this type of crap with themselves? Any fresh (oh please just one) perspectives on this love crap?

.... I'm OBVIOUSLY having a tough time with reality here and accepting that I shouldn't be so idealistic ........I DON'T WANNA GROW UP!!!!! But I feel like, if I don't ... I'm going to be alone for the rest of my days .... So what's the vote? Lower my standards? --Cheaper price on admission? --Less gets you more? .... ????

July 24, 2005
6:31 am
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hiemee
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Dear Greywolfess
Like you, my story began in my childhood. I was forever doomed to keep repeating my mistake, knowing I was unhappy with the relationships in my life, yet ignorant of how I could change things.

Like you I lived with an untouchable core. To my friends I was an extremely likeable and social person….yet like you, inside I was locked up tight. I would do for others, yet allow no-one to do for me. I would, as you put it, “bend over backwards for them.”

I also distracted others to prevent them getting any closer. They were so appreciative of what I would do for them, that they probably thought our friendship dynamic worked on that level…that although they sensed I prevented them from getting close…that they provided something else that worked for me….and they did.

I think what they gave me was the pretense that we had a normal friendship. That although we didn’t interact on the normal level of friendship – which requires an openness on a deeper level – that we interacted another way. And by them not questioning my inability to be open on a deeper level, they were in fact being good friends.

Sort of like seeing how I behaved as a type of shyness, but accepting me anyway.

In relationships though, it is much more important to interact on a deeper level. My defense, for my inability to be like that, incorporated how much I did for the other person. Therefore if they were unhappy (with my inability to interact on a deeper level and my guarded core), I was able to turn that around into them being an ungrateful person for finding fault with me despite all I did for them. Then I could pretend that I was “the wounded one”, the “victim”.

I was using my good deeds to my partners like investing money in the bank. That, should they be unhappy with my inability to let them get close, I could then draw on my good deeds as a sort of “get out of jail free” card.

This sort of behaviour can never work, as it requires the agreement of my partners…who not only cannot agree to this – because they don’t know what is happening….and who may not agree with it even if they did.
And so my relationships would eventually break up.

After the break-up of my marriage 5 yrs ago, I was lucky enough to meet someone who became so significant to me that I questioned every part of my past behaviours…as I did not want to lose her.

Yet at the same time, I loved her so much that any thing I “did for her”, increased my love for her ten fold…which then increased my desire to do more for her.

But I didn’t know enough about myself to realize that I was still banking away the things I did for her…and in moments of tension between us, I took the moral high groung that she should not treat me like this because of what I did for her.

Eventually that relationship ended also. She loved what I did for her, but was devastated at my reaction to the normal disagreements that mark most relationships. She didn’t know about my “bank account”.

She wasn’t able to co-incide the love I professed for her, with my reactions when we argued. Yet for me, it was simply a case of arguing so much in a marriage that I wanted out of…that I saw any arguing as a VERY bad thing…and had an extreme wish to avoid them.

And so now, like you, the women I date are “those who come after ME... And not those who just show interest ... but those who jump through frickin hoops and do crazy overwhelming things just to get a date with me!! ... --showing courage and prowess ...therefore showing they're strong enough to possibly RESCUE me in a round-a-bout sort of sorry-assed way!”

And it is pathetic…because they do not interest me for long. They are “safe” for me to be in a relationship with short term…but not very beneficial to my growth long term.

Because I am wounded…and I have not gotten over it.

I believe there is true love….because I believe I had it with my beautiful partner.

Every date with her was like 50 first dates. Not because I forgot the last one….but because every new one was so special.

Right up until the day she broke up with me, I would wake with a smile on my face because she was there next to me.

When she left me, I was shattered…and that doesn’t even come close.

The good part is it started me again on a growth path to understanding about myself, and I am no longer where you are. I see a counselor and am constantly learning more about myself….and I am happier, and more able to contribute to a relationship.

My counselor says this is linked to feelings of self worth. The more open you are to letting other people get close to you…the more vulnerable you are to them affecting your feelings of self worth.

The bad part is that I wouldn’t wish the feelings that overwhelmed me…until I hit rock bottom and started fighting my way back….I wouldn’t wish them on anyone else. And that this happened by meeting, and losing, my soulmate.

For me, being alone for the rest of my days doesn’t scare me…….waking up each day without her does. Knowing that she is out there…and was mine once……and could have still been……thinking, of spending every day for the rest of my life, with the knowledge I lost her, is too awful to comprehend.

She broke it off with me a year ago…and we see each other through our young daughter.

So that’s what it took to get me out of where I think you are…..so hopefully you find an easier path.

Thankfully I also was born with a good heart, so I trust that something good will come from this.

And no….I don’t think you should go down the path of…“Lower my standards? --Cheaper price on admission? --Less gets you more? .... ????”

Hiemee

July 24, 2005
12:24 pm
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greywolfess
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Dearest Hiemee,

Thank you so very much in sharing your experience and perspective. I kind of needed the confirmation of what was probably happening. Now that I realize what is happening and what I'm doing ... I can grow that much more in my relationship with my man whom I also do NOT want to lose.... at least not from what I'M in control over :). Unfortunately, I think he behaves in much the same way I do. And we almost DID call it quits because of how truly scared we both have been .... but neither of us was able to let go of this incredible connection we have... which remains, no matter how close or far apart we are. It IS truly amazing this way... 'cause we both know this connection is not "man made".

I'm so sorry you feel you lost your soul mate. But honestly? I believe that we have more than one soul mate. And that a soul mate can be a mother, sister, brother, cousin, daughter, friend, teacher, neighbor, etc. OR lover. I believe our soul mates are people we tend to feel are "cut from the same cloth" as ourselves; So much that in fact we just feel drawn to them in some unexplainable way more than others. They are people we just "click" with. To find that 'quality' in a romantic love is ultimate. And maybe this woman just had certain qualities or the right combination thereof about her that triggered at least a 'few' of those locks ... but not enough. Things happen for a reason. You may be amazed at the amount of love you will feel, full-circle, in your life, now that you are more open to it. I know its beginning to sound as if I'm not quite as bad off as I thought I was -- and I think I'm right. I think its just those REALLY DEEP LEVELS at which I'm feeling those brickwalls and roadblocks. I seem to be so much healthier in my life these past 10 years --except for that true core. And the only way I guess I'm going to get it healthy is to open it up ... no matter how much it hurts. I'm just gonna have to be a real 'diehard' and JUST DO IT!

I also believe that things happen for a reason. If you lost her ... it was meant to happen that way for reasons not yet revealed.... Or have they been?

There IS someone out there you will feel happy about --if not happier about. Because it sounds like you now have the recipe. No, there will never BE another like her, but that's the beauty of it. And the one you were meant to lose will always be the mother of your child. You can be greatful for her in that without having had her AND then lost her in your life, you may never have grown like this. And despite your loss, you still had the strength to move ahead. THAT speaks volumes! You will in turn have that much more to give your daughter :).

I'm very greatful for your time and your heart in this matter. You are awesome! Thanks Hiemee! 🙂

July 24, 2005
1:46 pm
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on my way
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Both of you...

In my own life, I experienced this same type of thing with an old love...I do not think I quite understood though what was happening, because as what you described above is how he acted.

I have been tryng to understand and put into words for a long time, as to why he came on so strong and then backed away...and I, was the one who always took the first step to contact him, but slowly it all died away.

So being on the other side, thankyou both for posting. And I must say you both have great insight into yourselves, and this is the first step towards recovery. I guess though, I wold encourage both of you to step out again, and not settle for being alone due to fear. Once we are healthy, recognize our delimma, we can make the necessary changes, and you will actually attract "healthy" people.

Blessings to you both,
omw

July 24, 2005
4:45 pm
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on my way
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grey,
I also beleive in people being connected, and not being able to explain it. and I also beleive that events happen for a reason and actually have a positive effect rather than a negative one in our lives.

In 3 posts my eyes have been opened more than before, and thoughts confirmed.
And I beleive in hope, and love at its purest, and I believe in miracles as well. I have learned not to limit my life by my perceptions. Although one step at a time, I think we all have to keep moving.

This has been interesting.

July 25, 2005
9:23 am
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hiemee
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Thank you greywolfess for your kind comments

Your description of how you are together… “but neither of us was able to let go of this incredible connection we have... which remains, no matter how close or far apart we are. It IS truly amazing this way... 'cause we both know this connection is not "man made"…. reminds me of how I was with my gorgeous partner
.

So the only other thing that I think I may be able to pass on to you is…something that I think would have helped me….if you wish not to lose him…..I wish there had been someone I could have trusted to discuss what was happening between us….

Someone to vent my feelings….so they would not have bottled up inside me….someone who would have listened, and empathized with me…..not thought that my partner was bad or anything…..but understood that I needed to talk in order to discharge my negative feelings occasionally….in order to recharge my love for her

Sort of like a spring clean of negative feelings

The counsellor I have now would have been perfect….and I had seen 2 different counsellors prior to that to help me work through relationship issues…..I guess there is a reason that I did not find the counsellor I see now, til after my partner left

Another way you might try to get insight about your ‘brick walls and road blocks’ is to find time to just sit with your feelings anytime you feel those ‘brick walls and roadblocks’.

Before accessing this counsellor, I was unaware that I would try to distract myself when I was experiencing uncomfortable feelings…..now when they come on….whatever I am doing….I try to tune out the rest of the world, and just let those feelings wander through my body, my head…and just see what comes up

Sort of like fishing…just sit patiently and see what surfaces

Anyway, it works for me…

Re what you said about things happening for a reason….in my darkest moments I say to myself that maybe we just came together for no other reason than to bring our beautiful little girl into the world…

And I doubt that I would have achieved the growth I have if we were still together…and I will forever be grateful that she came into my life….

But I have met many women since her….most of whom are very nice people…but with all of them, it seems like…they’ve gotten to an age where they want a lot of things from their partner….romance, to do things together etc…but their hearts are only running on 60% capacity…..and they seem incapable of “clicking” with someone anymore on the level that I experienced with my partner…

So after we see each other for a (short) while, they seem to wind down into the relationship, rather than it getting better…like they feel excitement initially….but then quickly wind down into comfortableness…which feels more to me like the relationship version of retirement

So I believe theoretically that I may find another soulmate, but I doubt it practically

Maybe when I have healed…..but then how long does it take to get over the best thing that has ever happened to you.…it’s been a year, and my feelings seem just as strong…

Thanks again

And thanks for your comments too, omw

July 27, 2005
12:24 am
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on my way
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just checking back in on this thread, as it interests me...hieme, grey....
it takes a certain beleif system, mentality, and attitude to aspire to believing that dreams come true. not so much dreams that we imagine, but whatwe focus our attention on. think about it...if we are looking to fail, we fail, if we are looking to believe..faith..and if we have the confidence...hope, then maybe what we dream will be there for us. It isn't magical, it is just a part of life. it is just that some do not pay attention to, or beleive they aredeserving, or their dream is not worth pursuing...or they spend their entire lives, going around in circles because they are ignoring their dream.

hieme..may I also recommend another avenue to deal with walls and feelings? If you sit with them and feel them, then all you will do is sit with them and feel them..feelings are not always reliable. And depression can seep in too quickly. To get rid of raod blocks it would be a good idea to ask you counselor about what to do about changing your thought patterns.

You do sound sad.

Grey, dreams are not a fantasy unless you make them so. They are at best, with wisdom and forethought, important to explore.

The best to you both,
omw

July 29, 2005
2:22 am
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greywolfess
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Hiemee and OMW

I was just checking back on the thread m'self. And Hiemee, you do sound sad. But isn't that still okay? I think its important to allow ourselves these feelings ....as long as we learn how to apply the breaks and not get so carried away with such feelings that they interfere with the quality of our lives in other areas that have been strong and that we need to keep strong. Anything in moderation I guess eh?
And OMW you are so right-on about the importance of changing our thought patterns. I think we learn all too often to associate certain feelings with negative thought patterns and the only way to change them is to reassociate those feelings with something positive. For example, Hiemee. When I was very young and I got picked on by my girlfriends, I would be so crushed and soon anxieties set in about people PERIOD. I began associating any "being made fun of" behaviors from others as something very negative, causing me to feel lower than dirt. I was very weak interpersonally and not very thick skinned at all. I took life WAY too seriously. It wasn't until I understood that harmless "teasing" was actually a love language that I was able to gain a different perspective. My Dad would say, "Love ya kid" while he grabbed me up and held me close for a mere second or two while messing up my hair. (My mom never told me she loved me. She was always very stressed and treated my siblings and I like nuisances and interruptions in her day). But because I was much more of a tomboy I saw the way guys picked on each other. The way they would dis each other for their screw ups and insecurities as well as their strengths. I saw this initially from a distance so I was able to see the love that was actually being displayed through body language, tone of voice and the such. Especially with the family of 4 boys that lived next door. I would get closer and closer through time to the boys on my street until finally one day they began to pick on me like they did each other and I found myself with this sense of belonging for the first time. I was definitely taught independence by my Dad at a very young age and with MY piss and vinegar, I just fit right in. To this day I love to dirtbike, snowboard, parasail and bla, bla, bla. I still get along better with men than with women but now I tell my mother I love HER. But the point is that I was able to attach the negative feelings of teasing to something more positive and reassociate it so it didn't end up destroying me. If you can pull yourself out of your body and see yourself from that vantage point ..... WOW does it help. But it sure isn't easy.

And OMW thanks for the insight as to dreams. It really IS about perspective and the power of belief that makes all the difference. Reality, I guess, is what we chose it to be for ourselves. Just because I see the pen as blue doesn't mean everyone else will. But if it makes me happy and doesn't negatively impact others, its a healthy reality for me. RIGHT? :)And so who's gonna care?

Heimee, don't you dare give up. Not EVER. I wish you the best of all the positive energy you can feel to suck you up and guide you into a more positive direction .... when you are ready. In the mean time, you can cry, whine, wish, crab, bitch, moan and complain .... however you wish because we are here for you. And the more you allow us to be, the more you will share. The more you share, the more you will deal with it. And the more you deal with it, the healthier you will become. ....And I loved your "fishing" association. You are too cute! :). I am SO guilty of going 90 and only slowing down enough to smell the roses. I will try your suggestion since I'm much better with my brakes these days on the potential snowballing effects OMW affectionately warned us about.

OMW, ......believe, my friend, in those very dreams... 'cause you can't spot it, if you ain't got it :). Thanks for the kind words of wisdom. I'm glad that we could be of help to you as well. Thanks.

Hugs to you both
-GWolfess

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