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Narcissistic, abusive and non-nurturing mothers
December 20, 2007
11:59 am
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red blonde
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The reason I am creating this thread is because I am having a lot of trouble overcoming fears and training and conditioning from childhood and how subsequent relationships that I have been in - have been more or less accepted, subconsciously, as the way things just 'were' or 'normal'.

I have suffered from depression, PSTD, panic attacks, extremely low self-esteem, self-worth and self-confidence, destructive 'other'-pleasing tendencies, lack of courage, self-destructive tendencies, and that is just to name a few. I have trouble loving myself and accepting love from others. Lately, this has created much confusion in my life...and trust issues.

There are times I want to just give up because I do not know how to deal with it all. I would like to learn to be self-nurturing...to 'caretake' myself.

If others are having the same difficulty, perhaps we can help eachother to learn how to overcome difficulties and heal and learn to live healthier lives.

December 20, 2007
12:59 pm
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alien
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(((Rouge)))

December 20, 2007
1:34 pm
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red blonde
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(((alien)))

I was brought up believing that I HAD to love my mother...I spent my life from childhood on trying to make my mother love me as a daughter or even as a friend...until the day she died.

I never realized that beyond her phsyical and sexual abuse, that she had used all the other abuses, that one can think of, in order to control and manipulate me and to keep me a 'loner' (even in relationships) and under her thumb and 'dependent' on the immediate family. I didn't understand, until recently, how much what she had done
'covertly' to me was abusive in nature. Sometimes it just boggles my mind.

December 20, 2007
1:41 pm
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alien
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(((Rouge))) I am so sorry. My mother is doing a number on me too, and i still feel like i have to love her. I am so messed up as a result of my most recent interaction with her. All the people in the world can tell me to stay away etc...but i can't ignore her. I believe she is at risk for suicide as i am, and i can't think right about any of it. I am trying to forgive and help, cause i think it maybe will release both of us from our despair, but maybe i have it 100% backwards!? Anyways, i wish i could help you with wise words, but all i can offer is my genuine care and concern for you.

December 20, 2007
1:52 pm
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red blonde
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((((Alien))))

Thank you..

I would have to say that in 95% of my relationships with friends, husbands and my work places, I had no idea that my mother had in the chaos that took place.

Rouge (AKA Red)

December 20, 2007
2:22 pm
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truthBtold
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(((Rouge))) (((Alien)))

Rouge, your term of "covertly" brought to mind a book that I just recently found about that is really helpful in this area:

"In Sheep's Clothing - Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People"
by George K. Simon, Jr PhD

I found out about it in an article excerpt link listed when googling: "dealing with manipulative people"

link:

http://www.rickross.com/refere.....ing11.html

I haven't purchased the book yet - but this article was excellent and explained about both the overt and covert ways in a very clear manner.

Passing this along...........

December 20, 2007
2:27 pm
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truthBtold
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p.s. - I just bumped up an older thread that may be of some interest here...."When dad is perp and mom is master manipulator....."

FYI.

December 20, 2007
2:29 pm
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Friendma
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((((((((((RED))))))))))

((((((((((ALIEN))))))))))

I truly understand the pain and I don't feel able to post about my mom yet but when I do I will come here.....it helps to not feel so alone and just know that I'm sendin ya both safe hugs and I'm listenin....Take care ya'll...

December 20, 2007
2:30 pm
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((truthBtold))

thanks for the name of the book, I'm gonna check that out!!

December 20, 2007
3:30 pm
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This post really caught my eye. My mother had issues of her own from her childhood and I thought as an adult I had come to understand that a long time ago. I think I did understand it but what I did not realize was the impact she had had on me. It was not until I got into Coda that I realized how much my relationship with her afffected every relationship in my life. In my heart, I truly do not believe she was abusive or even meant to hurt me but she was extremely controlling and wanted me under her thumb even as an adult. She even picked out my clothes to wear until I was a senior in high school. When I began insisting I wanted to choose my own clothes each day, I was considered to be rebellious. My Mom has passed now and I honestly feel like she did the best she could while she was here. But, what I have come to realize and am understanding more and more is how my relationship with her has affected my whole life. Her insecurity and need to be in control was constantly held over my head and I was always fighting for her approval. Knowing I needed her approval was the way she remained in control. I hope to continue to get healthier by working on understanding more my relationship with her.

December 20, 2007
6:39 pm
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truthBtold
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Thanks for posting that bmom74.

Connecting the emotional dots.

Your understanding has helped me a bit and I want to thank you for that.

December 20, 2007
9:01 pm
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chelonia mydas
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((((((((Red, Alien, TBT, Friendma, Bmom)))))))),

Great thread Red,

This is something I struggle with too- you are definately not alone. I can sooooo relate to the whole situation of knowing she is toxic but also feeling obligated/drawn to keeping in touch with her even though everyone wonders why you continue to.

I don't have much advice because it is something I struggle with too, but I will be happy to share and be part of this group to support eachother as we walk this path of recovery.

December 20, 2007
10:02 pm
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truthBtold
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"Letting Go" I am now thinking is not so much about forgiveness (I personally think that this notion of forgiveness just happens naturally - as a "by product" of it all and is really NOT something that has to be forced in any way, shape or form...)

Just something that just happens naturally....in its own time and in its own way.....after FULLY coming to terms with ALL of the dynamics.......

Personally, I have always felt the pressure from therapists to move me in that direction....but it really isn't practical. Not really.

Just has to happen naturally.

In our own time........

Right now I struggle with the fact that I only live about 20 minutes from my mother.

She is quite old. Close to 80.

The holidays approaching does not make it any easier.

There are just simply sme things I really love about about the woman (we share an eclectic appreciation for music etc...) but - by the same token....she protected my father rather than her daughters.

So again....it all boils down to INTENTION!!!!!!

I do not feel that it was ever her intention completely to treat me like she did. Hell, had she had not been raped by her father....I am sure that she would have turned out much different and much more supportive.

What if she was educated enough to just leave my father....I think in my heart of hearts - that she would have done so in a New York minute.

But she was not able to support herself financially...which is something that simply MUST BE beat into the heads of younger females growing up today.....

Anyways....I still don't know what to do with these conflicting feelings.

I DO feel in my heart of hearts....that had the woman had known better....she would have done better....

My father, on the other hand...is another story altogether.

He WAS all about control and humiliation when he DID know better and made the decision to do what he did.

Anyways, maybe its not too late to send my mom some flowers for Xmas.

Can't handle seeing them both in person.

But I would like her to know that I care.............

This is quite difficult......to be sure.......

sigh.

December 20, 2007
11:08 pm
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red blonde
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My mother died almost 10 years ago at 86. But here are just a few examples of what my mother would do to me:

Asked me over for lunch, so that we could 'talk' - I got to the house, she wasn't there, asked my sister and dad where she was...they didn't know...so I waited and waited until I finally decided to go home. I run into her 'best' friend a couple of weeks later and she tells me nice my mother's house was (meaning MY HOUSE)and that she was glad that my mother was allowing ME to live there!

Asked me over to lunch..to talk over my taking MY piano to MY house and I said I would get a truck and friends to move it. I left for home and as soon as I got into the house, my phone was ringing. My best friend asks me what the hell is wrong with my mother...She had called her whining and complaining about me...That I had come over and demanded to take my piano.

I have come to believe that my mother was a Narcissist to the extreme.

December 21, 2007
12:01 am
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red blonde
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What I really want to know is the traits of a Narcissistic mother..not necessarily the sexual and physical abusivenes..I think I am aware of those having been a survivor...but all the other traits or signs of one.

I need to learn the 'red flags'. I don't have any boundaries yet..my therapist and I are trying to develop them in me...but right now I am extremely vulnerable.

December 21, 2007
5:35 pm
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My mother (now age 86) is a narcissist. Despite being 57, my stomach still clenches up and anxiety floods my entire being, just seeing a Christmas card from her land in my mailbox.

A narcissistic mother raises children who become highly codependent. They feel condemned and unwanted FROM BIRTH. They are blamed for all the mother's dashed dreams, personal disappointments or failings. All must be blamed and "projected" onto the hapless child(ren).

They are utterly lacking in empathy or affection. Yes, they will use the words, "Of course, I love you," while covertly undermining and destroying your confidence, your self-esteem...your SOUL.

My mother was prone to terrifying rages...violent outbursts. I never knew what might trigger one. Perfection was demanded. I had to bring home straight A's...a B would be met with a frown and the comment "Unacceptable." I never got praised for ANYTHING. The only exception was if a third party was around, praising my talents/performance in my mother's presence. Then, she would be sucking in the applause for having produced me. She took ALL the credit. As soon as the third party left, I was (once again) relegated back down to unwanted, worthless and undeserving.

I never recall being hugged or kissed or reassured. I was never comforted, not even when seriously ill or injured on several occasions. She was ruthlessly cold, indifferent and critical.

I also got accused of tremendous character defects, none of which were TRUE. (More projection?) I was called a liar, a whore, a slut and even accused of doing drugs. (Never did any drugs in my entire life, by the way.) Slept with one guy: that made me a whore/slut???

She would hit me a great deal, frequently using secondary objects. She was indifferent to any pain I might be having (such as a broken arm or gaping head wound). They left her unconcerned and unmoved. I was simply impressed with what an INCONVENIENCE these occurences were to HER. It was always ALL ABOUT HER.

She did not want me as a baby. Refused to look at me, touch me or even name me for the first 10 days of my life. Dumped me into a foster home until I was nearly six, but REFUSED to let the kind-hearted foster parents adopt me. (They tried.)

She was man-crazy. Lived for male admiration and attention. Postively HAD to have it. I never even came a close second to the men in her life. I was always a burden, a duty.

My greatest sin? The greatest sin any child of a narcissistic mother can commit is that we KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THEM. They hate us for that. Thus, they launch smear campaigns against us. They do everything in their power to lie about us, demean us, make us look bad to anyone who will listen and buy their smearing lies. BECAUSE WE HAVE PENETRATED THE MASK BY GETTING TOO CLOSE TO THEM. WE KNOW ABOUT THEM. WE KNOW WHAT MONSTERS THEY ARE. SO THEY HATE US.

My mother wants me dead. I have not seen her in over 3 years. She disappeared from a nursing home where I had situated her. Has told all and sundry (a distant cousin reported this to me) that I stole from her, was cruel to her, etc. Every lie in the book. All a smokescreen, to hide her own, despicable behavior towards me and my two sons.

This is a narcissistic mother. We have to remember that they are mentally ill and be grateful that we survived and did not follow in their footsteps. We are NORMAL. We bleed. We empathize. We are capable of love. They aren't. A narcissistic mother as all the mothering instincts of an alley cat. Perhaps an alley cat has more, now that I think about it.

They live for our ultimate destruction. The best way to survive them? No Contact. Mine sends pathetic Christmas cards, c/o my older son. (She does not have my address or whereabouts.) I do not answer. I do not respond. I do not acknowledge her. I have tried to forgive her. That is the best I can do. But I will not give her another shot at destroying me...at crusing my soul.

My heart goes out to all of you who have endured such a nightmare upbringing. I salute you. I applaud your courage. Each of you has risen above the hideous evil into which you were born.

- Ma Strong

December 21, 2007
10:46 pm
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alien
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I think we are a product of our experience, and so am trying to blame to the experiences instead of the person. Love the sinner hate the sin kinda deal. Is this not the way to direct the mind when travelling through the confusion of letting go of the pain of abuse? I am quite confused. I really feel desperate to figure this all out. I wish i could just let time do it's thing...but what do you do when the clock is ticking and people are potentially going do die unless you make a decision, but you can't figure out what decision to make? Maybe i should read the forgiveness thread again, but i find it very confusing and upsetting and triggering. Need to decide a.s.a.p, can't decide. Ah, i feel like i am in hell.

December 21, 2007
10:51 pm
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netsirk
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((alien))
what can I do to help? I can listen, I can go to a HP I can talk. I want you to know I am here for you and here to help you stay safe. I've missed chatting on here with you. I'm on when you are off and vice versa. I'm here now.

December 21, 2007
10:59 pm
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alien
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((sirk))Thanks, i feel a bit to vulnerable to say much more. Just looking for the perfect answer to put an end to my hell. Aren't we all. I know i need to find my own answer, but i'm too stressed and pressed for time to access my place of peace where i guess my answers are. Anyways, i feel pretty freaked out. My mom is closing in on me....has been begging me to call all day, but i am too vulnerable right now, but not calling also makes me feel desperate. It's horrible. Anyways, thanks. I probably should try not to talk about it too much right now. I am trying to dissociate from my panick. I'll meet you on your thread for a sec.

December 21, 2007
11:44 pm
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red blonde
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((((Ma Strong))))

Your mother and mine sound like they could have been clones of one another...except that I think mine was even more extreme than yours. God, I hope there aren't MORE of them out there!

As I said my mother was 86 when she died...I was 50 at the time...I will be 60 in March '08. She was 36 years older than me...32 years old when she had my sister. I just don't understand this but she treated my father and me horribly (though may have never been physical with him), yet she didn't do this to my sister as far back as I can remember.

She would not have anything to do with naming me, due to some very 'strange' happenings at the time of my birth (and death...long story) - So my dad named me - after her...and, unfortunately, I grew up looking and sounding like her as well - but do not have her personality traits at all. (I had written about it on my libs thread, but will go over it again - if you are interested.)

December 22, 2007
12:00 am
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sdesigns
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I too never had love from my mother. I don't have any memories of her ever holding me or telling me she loved me or ever receiving a compliment from her. Even when I was a newborn, she wouldn't hold me or tend to me. Felt I needed to learn to be independent- an as infant.

Growing up in grade school I was a natural leader. Other kids gravitited to me. Until about the 5th grade when my mother made me wear hand me downs (we had money) and she made me wear bobby socks when none of the other girls had to. I was a laughing stock. Two years later I ran for student council and begged my mother to let me wear nylons just for that one day- the day I was going to stand up in front of the whole school- and she wouldn't let me. I was humuliated. She just kept trying to break my spirit and hold me back from being popular or accomplishing anything I felt worthwhile. From then on I shrank from relationships and was afraid to make friends- I was afraid of being laughed at.

She never liked any of my boyfriends and always had something negative to say about them. I look back now and know that some of them were good guys and I wish she hadn't influenced me.

I never married or had kids. I didn't want to have children and was afraid I would treat them like she treated me.

One time she was angry with me, so she killed my cat. And then left me a message and reveled in her deed. Again to teach me a lesson. I didn't talk to her for 8 years after that. My Dad tried to maintain a relationship with me anyhow. One Easter he came to my place to take me out to lunch- and had a message from my mother. She wanted him to bring back a desk I had at my place. She wanted us to haul it downstairs, put in on the car roof, and have my dad bring it home. I told him to forget it, I wasn't going to do it. Just a powerplay to try and ruin our lunch together.

My mother died a year ago in October. In November I found out that she had sold all of her family hierlooms because she didn't want my sister or I to have anything of hers. Her last dig at us- even after she died she still had to get at us.

I am still angry that I went to the hospital day after day to visit her, even though she was a vegetable. I felt it was my duty. Not knowing what nasty things she had done that I didn't even know about. She was a mean nasty hateful woman.

And that is the memory my mother decided to leave with me- nice , huh?

SD

December 22, 2007
12:14 am
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sdesigns
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Was anyone else's mother adopted? Mine was and I think thats where her negative traits stemmed from. Garfield gave me some great info about this in the past.

Although I think I can understand WHY my mother was the way she was, it doesn't make up for how she impacted my life.

December 22, 2007
2:08 am
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red blonde
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My mother was not adopted.

I actually know very little about my mother's life before she married my dad. She married my dad at 29, he was 27. I do have some photographs of her in her late teens or early 20s, that may be somewhat revealing of my mother. I also know extremely little about my grandparents, the little I do know or was told has been quite interesting. I do believe she was bi-sexual and not a lesbian.

December 22, 2007
2:25 am
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alien
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I was adopted, guess that's where my negative traits stem from, that and everything else. Sorry if i offended anyone anyhow. I am mentally ill and hopeless. No really, i am.

December 22, 2007
11:35 am
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Alien: I did not mean that anyone adopted has negative traits and I am sorry if thats how it came across.

I think my mother was resentful of that and never was able to deal with the fact. Since she felt abandoned by her birth mother, she in turn wanted us to be abandoned her whole life. She couldn't make close attachments to people. She was even mean to my father, and he was such a weak man he took whatever she dished out.

You didn't offend me. I have seen you write such things on other threads too. Why do you think you are offending people? this is a place where you can say whats on your mind and I think you will benefit by sharing that.

(((alien))))

SD

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