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Narcissist - why couldn't I see it?
April 22, 2007
10:32 pm
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lucyloo
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Hi-I'm new here and have posted on a few threads. My ex is an N and this is so clear now. Do men grow up mentally beyond 12 years old?

This man cheated on his ex-wife with me and then left her with a 10 month old baby. He divorced her and moved to another state for a job. And after a year of dating him long distance he finally convinced me to move half way across the country to live with him. And I did and I was with him for a year before I found out that he cheated on me only four months after we started living together. He had given me a 'promise' ring in Sept. then cheated in January.
Now I am finally seeing that he is an N and is not happy unless he has drama in his life...
His ex-wife is an extremely unhappy person (he had always told me this but I found out for myself because I called her back in November). But the poor woman was left with a baby, house, two dogs - my God.
Nothing but drama. I move out here to supposedly start 'our life' together and the entire time he was making me believe we were moving forward, looking at houses, etc. But meanwhile we were flying back and forth to see his son for one weekend a month and then he would bring his son here for 5 days each month. So we were really not living the 'dream' we planned or that he kept promising me. His job was so busy, that he and I barely had time for each other.
God - I just want to scream that I actually didn't see how much drama he is.
Not only that, compulsive house keeper (I found it overwhelming) and completely wrapped up in his appearance. Never a hair out of place. Clearly very insecure. Spent so much time on cleaning and grooming, he never relaxed.
I guess I just need to vent. To get this all out.
It is going on two years now and he still constantly battles with his ex. He has such a huge ego. Can rationalize his way out of paper bag. It's always her fault or somebody else's.
So the only good thing that came from the move for me was personal growth. I finally got away from my family (alcoholics) and finally realized that I had to stop taking care of everyone else and make myself happy. But now I see clearly that I was just taking care of him here.
When I found out he cheated in Sept. I changed the locks and threw him out. He confessed and cried and didn't want to leave but I told him I thought it was best that he did.
Since September I have been on this roller coaster with him. He kept telling me how much he loved me and wanted me back. But he didn't want to face the fire or do the work to get 'us' back. And when the going got tough, he ran. Back to her. And then back to me. God it was nuts. Looking back it was this lonliness being in a state where I have few friends and my social life was him. I spent the entire month of December in NO CONTACT. He kept calling and texting and even drove by my house one night. Then after a month, he left me a message that he had thought about what he had done and how much he loved me. Yep- I got sucked right back in.
Then in January I went to his house late one night (I had my own key) and he and I had both been out drinking & too much (separately with friends, or who knows who he was with). And when he got home, he was angry I was there. We pushed each other and I left, went home and called the police. Turns out that in this state if a call is made it almost always turns into an arrest. Two months later he was arrested at his office and spent 3 nights in jail and missed his son's ear surgery that he was supposed to be at in the other state. He called me from jail and cried to me and of course, what did I do? Took him back again. Meanwhile, I had to cancel his flight online for him and what do I find there but a flight for he and the other woman to go away for Easter weekend. My heart sank to the ground when I saw this.
Now here we are in April with a court date set in May but his lawyer is filing for a continuance. So I am still stuck in drama until this court thing is over.
And we just said goodbye to each other for the last time this week. But I am still sitting here with a key to his house and he has one to mine.
I found he is doing a long distance thing with a young little blond girl. (Actually I think she was in town a few weeks ago and he probably slept with her) I so badly want to call her and tell her to run before it's too late. Should I? Or not my place? Or would I just be feeding the drama he so loves.
I think he felt rejected because I made him move out after he confessed and cried. I told him I was moving out of the state in late Feb and he came running and told me how much he wanted 'us'. Then after the jail thing, we went and saw a couples counselor. So I thought he was on the right track. The counselor gave us some options and told us to discuss and get back to him how we wanted to proceed. But all of sudden now that my ex was being exposed, he wanted to run again and said he didn't think he needed the level of counseling that was suggested to him. This was a huge red flag for me and I've really lost alot of my caring for him after that.
He makes a good salary but has not saved a dime since he's been here, in fact, has dwindled nearly $80,000 down to $10,000 in lawyers fees, private investigators and flights back and forth to see his son. He has to implode soon! Or maybe not, maybe he just has to live on the edge all the time.
Whew - I need to go fix me now and I know this. I will admit that I was not the greatest person when I first moved here with him - lots of guilt and childhood anger coming out because I had left my 'caretaker' position when I moved away from my family. But I can and will fix me!
I just had a very lonely, very down day today and I nearly texted him. No contact is hard. It's been nearly 3 1/2 years since this all started with him and I'm exhausted.
I just want all the pain to go away. I WANT TO STOP THINKING ABOUT HIM! What is it so hard.
Thanks for reading. Any advice? Anyone else out there with an ex N that has taken you on the worst roller coaster ride of your life?

April 22, 2007
11:27 pm
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StronginHim77
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Rule #1. If a man cheats on his wife, he will cheat on the woman with whom he betrayed his wife's trust.

Rule #2. If he abandoned her, he will abandon the next woman.

OK. So much for the rules. This man could be BPD (borderline personality disorder) with "N" overlapping. The sexual infidelity is rather common with BPD's. However, HIS diagnosis (and I am no professional - just guessing from what you shared) is not important. What you decide to do for YOURSELF is what's important now.

You know that he is sick. You know that he is unfaithful. You know he lies and manipulates. You know the Truth about him.

You have to work up your determination and courage to take a stand for yourself. ONLY YOU can decide "No More Abuse!" Only you. And "No Contact" is the only way to do it.

No more phone calls. No more voice messages. No responding to text messages. Change your locks. Change your phone numbers. DO NOT TALK TO HIM. Shut him out of your life. Don't feel guilty about it. He is toxic.

You will hurt. You will grieve your lost hopes and betrayed trust. It is a genuine loss. Go ahead and grieve. Hold onto all of us here on these support threads. Most of us have been in your shoes (or are still in them!).

Remember that ending a toxic relationship is like breaking off an addiction. It is hard. It is panic-inducing. It scares. It terrifies. It gives us nightmares and tons of anxiety. BUT IT CAN BE DONE. Lean on all of us, here on these support threads. Most of us have survived a toxic relationship. Many of us did so, via initiating strict "No Contact." It hurts so bad at first. But each day, you will get stronger and stronger. And one day, you will wake up and the ache, the anxiety, the feeling of loss will not be there anymore.

It's a great feeling.

You have taken the first Giant Step toward your recovery. You are not in denial. I applaud your courage in facing just what this man REALLY is. And I believe you have the courage to free yourself from his talons, his grip, his manipulation. You deserve better.

Remember, abusers ALWAYS pick women who are intelligent, compassionate and caring. Nurturers. Then they suck the life out of us. You deserve to have your life back.

Keep posting. We are all rooting for you.

- Ma Strong

April 22, 2007
11:41 pm
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lucyloo
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Thanks Ma Strong-
Why am I so obsessed with him even though I am starting to see him for what he is? Just checked his phone bill on line and he's clearly talking to this girl out of state. He's starting the cycle all over again. He loves the chase. Did I mention that he also talks to his Mommy EVERYDAY?!

I know I need to take care of myself. I haven't been good to myself through all of this. I did start to feel better with the No contact I did back in December for a month. I am so tired of this angst inside of me.

I realize what he did - he made me lose my dignity, my self-esteem, etc. But I also realize now that as I was becoming a more emotionally intelligent person - he got scared. Now he's running to another victim. Charm her. He's so charming, so funny, but I really see how completely insecure he is.

Good luck to the next woman who wants to put up with his insanity!

I am done. I am crying, but I have to be done. This is it.

Thanks for the support. I plan to be here for awhile...

April 22, 2007
11:49 pm
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StronginHim77
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Quit checking his phone bills. LET HIM GO. He is no longer your problem.

He has shown his true self. And you deserve better.

Remember, you are breaking an ADDICTION to mistreatment, betrayal and abuse. You learned them in childhood. He kept the cycle going. It hurt...but it felt familiar and comfortable and normal. BUT REMEMBER THAT IT IS ALL WRONG. Let him go.

Take it one hour at a time. Yes. You will obsess over him. You will be thinking about him constantly. Talking about him. Why he did this. Why he said that. All the terrible things he did to you and said to you. All of us have experienced it (well, most of us, anyway!). It is painful, but you can do it.

No Contact is your only, final, powerful message to him. It is the only solution. It will bring you empowerment and relief. But it is hard. Each day will get easier. You may have some setbacks. But tackle it, one hour, one day at a time.

CUT HIM OFF. CUT HIM OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

Begin to journal all the terrible things he has said and done to betray your love for him. WRITE THEM DOWN. Read them out loud, every time you feel tempted to contact him or feel sorry for him.

Always be conscious of exactly who and what he is: EVIL. MANIPULATIVE. SELFISH. UNFAITHFUL. UNRELIABLE. INCAPABLE OF LOVING ANYONE.

What would you advise your best friend to do, if this were happening to her?

Love,

Ma Strong

April 23, 2007
12:17 am
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lucyloo
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Ma Strong-
Thank you for the strong words I need them! I am just putting so many pieces together of the lies. I think he was with me one night and then slept with this girl the next night. I so want to call her and tell her, or get the answers and of course, ruin it for him. But I can't - you are so right. I have to let him go and calling her will only likely engage more drama.

But I also feel like I want to protect other victims of his evil.

Ugh! Let it go, I know....

Thanks for being here

April 23, 2007
4:42 am
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healintime
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Hi Lucyloo,

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I didn't have my life turned quite so upside down but I was involved with an N.

That thing about wanting to "protect" his next victim? Know what you mean, but you can't. If his wife had called you when you and he became involved and told you all the things that you'd like to tell the next woman he's involved with, would you have listened?

Best thing you can possibly do is run as far as you can in the other direction. No contact, no calls, no texts, and completely disconnect. It takes a while, but it does get better. I left the door open a crack to my ex hoping that he would just fade away. Didn't happen. I finally realised that as long as he had access to me in any way he would keep doing damage and I had to officially say goodbye, and mean it. The healing can't begin until you disconnect, completely, from the drama, the hurt, the insane behavior (because it is insane - even as crazy has become normal) and remove yourself.

Hugs,

H.

P.S. Ma, great to have you "back" 😉 your posts are wonderful and I love the bones of you.

April 23, 2007
5:20 am
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nvr2late
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lucyloo-

been there, done that...have the t-shirt!
this is truly a story I know, and I have not been strong enough to end the contact..my ex and I have 2 kids..he has a g/f, that I found out last night he does not love, it is ME that he loves.

funny, they seemed to be having such a good time and he was always throwing her in my face.
now he says he is 'confused'...well, I know what that means, she is going to get hurt.

we are the SAFE ones for these kind of people...it is almost like I am his mother that he wants to sleep with.

because we are SO responsible, we are SO in control on the outside...
they run to us as their 'home base'...it is called 'codependent'...and it sucks.

this can be done for you, you have to let it go, let the thought of contacting this woman go...she will find out for herself soon enough.
but she will NOT listen in the middle of this, he is a charmer.

take care of yourself, let this guy go...it is difficult, but they do not CHANGE!!!

not without a lot of work they are not willing to put in.
it is now about you, he can go back to his ex (I doubt she will have him back) or hang on to this g/f until she realizes what he is all about, then he will move onto another victim.

you will be the only one that will get hurt if you keep going back and forth, these men do not seem to have any feelings.

please please take care of yourself!!!

nvr

April 23, 2007
7:58 am
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Robert123
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hey lucy, I think the info others have shared here is right on target. Dealing with this type of personality will make you think you are losing your mind. Its time to ask yourself the tough questions and move on with your life...before its too late.
R

April 23, 2007
11:22 am
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lucyloo
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Healin-
"Crazy has become normal" - wow! Why do we let someone make us feel like we're crazy? Codependent I know. Got to get out of this crazy loop

Nvr-
I have felt this mother thing all along too. In fact, I am very much like his mother. I know this is what he sees in me.

R-
Thanks. Yes I have felt like I'm losing my mind but today is a new day and I have to be strong.

Thanks everyone for sharing and responding. I hope you all have a great day!

Lucyloo

April 23, 2007
12:19 pm
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Matteo
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It might be difficult to see that he is a narcissist or has some other personality disorder, but it wasn't difficult to see that he had a wife and small babies and wasn't divorced, that he was cheating on his wife with you, and that alone should cross him over as a candidate for any long term relationship. I am sorry, but these kind of situations really puzzle me.

Aside from that, I agree with Ma, cut him loose meaning totally loose before you will be in any worse position than you are now (like his wife is), and let him go. Regarding his new girlfriend - I don't know; maybe you wouldn't listen, but she might. I know I would appreciate that kind of info, and some women do.

Good luck with everything and all the best to you.

April 23, 2007
12:38 pm
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lucyloo
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Matteo-
I know - what was I thinking getting involved to begin with? Just needed someone to love me and there he was. I am not this kind of person but I did it.

I am taking a good hard look at myself right now. How could I have trusted a cheater from the start?

This is what co-dependency is all about huh? Everyday I feel a bit more clear.

I need to understand why I cheated too. I cheated on my 17 year relationship with this N. And my 17 year is still to this day broken by it and would take me back in a minute. But I don't want to be there either.

This is really hard. All of it. Figuring out yourself I guess is the key. Damn my parents for not teaching me anything about life!

Thanks

April 23, 2007
12:51 pm
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Matteo
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lucylo ~ I think you will need a lot of support and perseverance because it seems that your plate is really full. Breaking with a narcissist is hard enough already, but as you've said it gives the opportunity to take a hard look at yourself. There are many threads here you can search on various topics, including narcissism, lot's of reading, lol! Just print the key word and the topics might come. Keep reading, because you never know when you will find an information which will fit your situation and be really helpful. Good luck.

April 23, 2007
1:47 pm
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lucyloo
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So I called her. She said she did meet him for a drink one night - I know exactly what night it was. Claims she didn't sleep with him, but who knows? I just warned her what he is all about. Feel better that I did.

But boy if she tells him - he's going to be angry. He just wants to hide his real self from the world.

God - I have to get off this thing with him...

April 23, 2007
2:46 pm
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nappy
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Lucyloo, I read your post and first of all. You shouldn't have gotten in touch with this other woman. You say that you want no contact with him but by doing this, you want.

If you are going to let him go, then that is exactly what you should do. Stop this game that he is playing with you. You can't do anything about the game that he is playing with other people. Regardless of how he is and you want to tell the world, you can't. You just need to move on.
And you probably did see the warning sign but you didn't want to see it.
These type of mens are only thinking about themself and they will drag you down with them. You seem like a strong woman and you should be angry but this should also be a life lesson to you.
Also when a man is telling another woman that he does not love the woman that he is with, he is lying. That is just to make the woman that he is with feel good and to make her feel that she is the only one. When they start talking about the ex and it is bad, then you should start looking at that man. IT is something wrong with him.
The only thing that I can tell you is that if you want to stop playing the game, then you need to throw in the dice and tell him that you are done.
Nappy!

April 23, 2007
4:27 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Lucyloo, I just practically looked through the posts without reading to much because it still hurts for me. It still hurts that I put so much into a person and found out it was all a sham. I still have problems and big ones too. People have notice the change in me. I am in disbelief that I was handle someone elses issues that was mentally disordered and did not see it. But I was not up to date. I guess thisis happening everywhere. It was notjust drugs or thinks people could pick up on. It is a deep mental disorder that I thought I could get through to him with. I had no idea until I researched and found out there was nothing I could do to save him or me from him but to get away. I am not recovered yet but I do understand your horror....Knowledge is the start...horsefly

April 23, 2007
4:45 pm
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lucyloo
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Horsefly-
It does hurt so much. I put so much of my time and energy into him. I am really beginning to understand now that I couldn't help him either. It is truly a disorder. It has done so much damage to me. I am going to NO CONTACT from now on.

Nappy-
I know I shouldn't have called this new woman. Have spent the day thinking through what she said and realize that she may have been lying too. I hear ya. I need to walk on.

I am a week away from my 39th birthday and feel like my life was ripped out from under me. He stole my dreams, ripped my heart out of my chest and stomped all over it.

I guess it's all still so fresh for me. A week ago he was texting me how much he loved me and wanted me and he to be married and to move to be closer to his son.

I'm sure with time I will feel better. Right now I am just a wreck. Why is it that you start questioning your own sanity? They make you think it's all you.

I know I need to start being stronger!

April 23, 2007
4:53 pm
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nappy
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To me I just realize that life is to short to be worrying about things that I can not change. I can not change the past and the people that was in my past but I know that I can change me.
I have change so much that it scare me to think that four years ago, I was stuck. I refuse to spend my life being hurt over someone that yes they did hurt me but my life is not over with.
Here you will be 39 years old and this should be a starting point for you.

You wrote:
feel like my life was ripped out from under me. He stole my dreams, ripped my heart out of my chest and stomped all over it.

See that is what you are thinking and is feeling but this man didn't do any of those things because you are alive and well and you have more strength then you think that you have.
This is life and I hate to tell you but this will not be the only time that you will be hurt in your lifetime. But you can understand yourself better so that you want be stuck in that position while life is still going on.
Embrace your life and live it, you only have one life to live.
Nappy

April 23, 2007
5:13 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Lucyloo, We cannot fix them but our recovering rate is high. The upside of it is only that. The psyhic damage to me is already done. I know this. But it is repairable if I can learn to take care of myself instead of others. Lucyloo it will be ok with time and understanding...horesfly

April 28, 2007
10:55 pm
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Lucyloo,
I know it is hard. I am with you, sister. But you MUST stay way.

BREAK ALL TIES. Do not see him.Do not have contact on purpose with anyone who is dating him, etc. I finally got rid of mine and my roller coaster was rough. I broke up with him, found out he was cheating on me and then found out I was pregnant with his child! He finally stopped contacting me and I am beginning to get my life back. It is hard because of the baby but it does not matter. He is a creep and yours was as well and we all deserve better. Mine was talking marriage one month and started sleeping with another woman the next. We have been dating off and on for 5 years. I invested much love and time and energy. I gave up my career for him. I spent all my time on him. I lost my health, my sanity and almost my life. He is a cheater and a compulsive liar and an alcoholic and he is not worth my spit. There is life after being with a N. There is life and hope. Erin Rose

April 28, 2007
11:05 pm
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lucyloo
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Erin Rose-
My story is so similar. Talking marriage one month, sleeping with another woman the next. I tried to be patient and supportive thinking that he needed his 'guy' time only to find out he was cheating later. I found out he was cheating 10 months after it happened. And when I threw him out he cried and confessed.

I gave up my career for him too and I too spent all my time on him. You do lose your sanity.

I am sorry to hear you had his child. In fact, mine was constantly trying to get me pregnant during the rollercoaster ride.

Mine was also a cheater and compulsive liar. He just could not stop lying and every time I called him out on it, he would squiggle out it and the next day run to another woman. And the pattern just kept getting worse.

Why do you feel so insane? Why do they make you so insane? I always thought of myself as so strong, emotionally intelligent, independent, etc.

But you get so sucked in by these individuals. I cannot understand how they wake up in the morning and face themselves.

Mine was obsessed with cleaning and his appearance. Seems like he never sat still and when he did, he would fall asleep.

Funny mine wasn't an alcoholic, in fact, didn't drink much. But now I see him as a sex addict.

Exhausting ride - trying so hard to get off.

I wish we could just forget them and have them out of our minds completely. Because the time I spend thinking about him brings up so much hurt and pain again and again.

I am trying to re-focus on my career and work now but it is hard.

April 28, 2007
11:25 pm
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Lucy,
Intelligence is no safeguard against these guys. I knew what he was but I just didn't get away. I saw that he was selfish and that his life was a mess. I saw that he was a bad father. But I was already sucked in. I am educated, etc. but I was sexually abused as a child and I guess that has always made me vulnerable to people like him. By the way, I am not sorry that I am having his child. Please don't you be sorry either. I love my baby! I will be a good mother. And he is so self-involved that he will hopefully fade into the woodwork. Don't hide your pain. Sit down alone in the room and FEEL it and cry until you can't cry anymore. The key is to go THROUGH the pain. There is life on the other side. You cannot get through it by hiding in your own "addictions" either.Trust me, I have tried and failed. Too much of anything can be addictive. (shopping, exercising, eating, drinking) Anything that finds you acting compulsively instead of living in the moment. See your friends and family. Learn something new. Work on yourself. What I am trying to work on is why I stayed but from this angle: What is it about me that makes me think I don't deserve to be with a better man? And when you have answered that question as honestly as possible I think you will know what you need to do to get better and attract better people into your life. We tend to settle for what we think we deserve. I believe you probably know what it is that keeps you "stuck." You do not need to tell me or anyone else. Only yourself. We know why we think we are less. We have to change our thinking and that is the hardest task. If we can change our thoughts we will change our beliefs about ourselves and that is key. Am I making sense, Lucy? I am not saying that I AM less. I am saying that is how I have acted. I have not been assertive enough. I have excepted less than I was worth in all aspects of my life because I was treated like less as a child and my feelings were invalidated and marginalized. NOT ANY MORE. My first executive decision as a parent is that I am not allowing anyone to be in my life unless they are supportive of me and my child. You can do this, Lucy, I know you can. Erin

April 28, 2007
11:37 pm
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erinrose
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Lucy, if you are tempted to be in contact with him, write to this group instead. I will be checking in here on weekends, okay? If I can stay away from mine when I am carrying his child then you can stay away from yours.It does help to know others have been through the same things. Erin

April 28, 2007
11:44 pm
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lucyloo
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Erin-
I didn't mean sorry about your baby the way that originally came out. I meant sorry for the possibility that this meant he would have to stay in your life. I want a baby very much and he knew this and used it.

I am taking a good look at my childhood and I was not sexually abused but my sister was by my brother all while they were under my care. And I have had so much anger towards my parents for this. They left me responsible for them was I was too young and not responsible enough to take care of myself. I think I blamed myself for many years before, but now I know this was not my fault, but my parents. And he used this as a weakness in me and took advantage of it. I see that now.

I talked to his ex-wife the other night because I realize now that he did to me what he did to her. Of course before I let him make me think she was just crazy and I did believe it. But the other night she cried and she let me talk to her son who I spent alot of time with with the ex. It was a wonderful feeling. We both felt a sisterhood because we were both victims of an N and the same one. Shared same crazy stories.

I know though that I cannot continue this contact with her because it is too dangerous with him there fighting for full custody of their son despite the fact that he moved out of state 2 years ago. He is this 'grandiose' of an N. It's sad and scary at the same time.

Though I just felt like she really needed someone to talk to and really hasn't had much time for a social life since he left her with the child. My god, why didn't I see how bad he was?

And regarding your comment: What is it about me that I don't deserve to be with a better man? I couldn't agree more that this is what I need to answer and slowly I try to find more answers everyday.

How long does this process really take? Feels like forever already.

April 28, 2007
11:54 pm
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erinrose
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Lucy,

It takes as long as it takes. We broke up just 2 months ago. The more ties you break the better. I am sure the sisterhood thing with his ex felt good but it is just one more thing to keep you tied to him and obsessing. Stop it. Any and all contact with this man is poison for you. You would not touch poison.
It sounds like maybe you became "parentified" as a child and that your boundaries as were not respected and that may be part of your problem? Yes, he did the same thing to his ex and he will do the same thing to the next safe, strong yet vulnerable woman who comes into his life. THAT IS NO LONGER YOUR CONCERN. See a therapist. Surround yourself with healthy,loving, stable people who support you and appreciate you.I know that is is easier for me right now because he has stopped contacting me. He knows I have ZERO tolerance for infidelity and that I will never take him back or else he would be at my door. But let's not talk about them. What are you doing for you? Erin

April 29, 2007
12:03 am
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erinrose
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And Lucy, I hope you can begin to forgive yourself for being with this man. That is another hard thing to do. I still feel guilty at times and even embarrassed. I feel like I have to aplogize to my unborn child for his/her father being a drunken, narcissistic lout who, if he is in our lives at all, will do nothing but create drama and let us down time and again. But I am starting to forgive myself and hopefully I will be such a great mom that my child will be able to understand one day. I have always wanted to be a mom and at least this way I am going through this now before the baby is here. Erin

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